Ragmaala Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Guest jee - Please read the article below. It is a long read, but if you are really interested, it might be helpful.http://nanaksarkaleran.com/qualities-puran-sant Bhul chuk maafThis is a great website. Highly recommended to read all articles and get a true sense of Gurmat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post das Posted October 21, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) I am NOT suggesting that one needs Dehghari Guru, actually I'm NOT suggesting anything, if you read Guru Granth Sahib Ji (WITHOUT THE history in mind), then it would be quite clear that Guru Ji HIMSELF (Sri Gruru Granth Sahib Ji) is talking about the necessity/need of Sants. Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said that Sants are not required. If a person really takes Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as his/her Guru, then he/she would be more looking for Sat-Sangat (company of the Truth - the ones who has already achieved something). In other words, if you're really a seeker and have taken Amrit to become Guru-Ka-Sikh, then isn't this a duty of student to listen to his/her Guru (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)? These days, our thinking is: Take Amrit, do Paths and then declare that we have Guru and we don't need Sants. It's has become ritual for us and we never bothered to take a deep look into what Guru is saying.If a mere darshan of a real Sant can be beneficial (many references in Guru Granth Sahib Ji), then think about what would be achieved if we're able to serve Him? And here I'm talking about REAL Sants and not the ones who are in news for one reason or the other.Sant is- NOT the one who teach you- NOT the one who guide you- NOT the one who instructs you- NOT the one who gives you the meaning of Scripture(s)- NOT the mediator.The above mentioned ones could be Kathakars, excellent teachers, very high Spiritual state but NOT the Sants. Even though a Sant could do all the above but that is one of His techniques.Sant is- THE one who has come from the Dargah (Karak) to take the souls back home.- THE one who can produce many other Sants and give them any duty.- THE one which gives you an internal experience and then it is upto seeker to develop that.- THE one which gives us the Vivek budh using which we can try to see the real cause. i.e then we can look-within. self-introspection.e.g Once Arjun (excellent archer) heard about a old Saint who is known to be excellent archer even better than him. At that point of time, arjun already had all the education and training. So, arjun went to see him and requested him to teach him. The Sant said that I don't have anything to TEACH you, YOU already KNOW what is needed for the best archer. The Sant also mentioned that he has not taken the bor/arrow for the last many decades and the Sant asked arjun to go for a bath in river.Arjun and the Sant started walking towards a little pond; on the way they had to cross a very wek temporary rope bridge over the 2 mountains. The Sant asked arjun for his bow and arrow as he wanted to check if he remembered everything. The Sant walked on the rope bridge (which was moving side-to-side) and then stopped in the middle of the bridge to take the aim at one of the fruit hanging from the tree in the mountain. He hit the aim. Arjun was astonished at the Sant's feet. The Sant asked the arjun to try the same shot again from the bridge. It took arjun many minutes to just stabilize himself on the moving rope and he shot the arrow so badly that it didn't even hit the tree what to say about the fruit. Now, the Sant mentioned to arjun that arjun does have ALL THE KNOWLEDGE but still lacks the STABLENESS.In other words, Sant is The one which provides support to our Soul in this moving maya world. He gives us the spark which holds us stable and we need to develop that stableness further.HE cannot be found no matter how hard we try, no matter how hard we think, no matter how hard we do self-introspection, no matter how hard we look within. We cannot find the ONE which was never lost, HE IS here. BUT HE HIMSELF discloses HIMSELF when we've tried our best and eventually have Surrended......... [Karma, Surrender, Vivek] Edited October 21, 2015 by das 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Sant is a person who is in a internal meditative state 24/7 and always meditating on Naam. jina saas giraas na visre...But then why do so many Sikhs (including on here) just label the leader of a specific jatha or teacher of that jatha as a Sant? It seems like anyone who learns a specific jatha's interpretation and is a good leader (can further the objectives of that jatha) is labelled as a Sant by that jatha. It doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with them meditating 24/7 (although I am not saying that they don't... just that it doesn't seem to be the criteria that was used to declare that person a Sant). Because we have different Jathas with differing views, and they all have their own Sants, who believe in and preach the interpretation of that jatha. To me, just because someone is educated in a certain sect, and is charismatic, doesn't make them a Sant. I agree it SHOULD be those who have inner awakening. But it just doesn't seem to be how most people think of a Sant. I would guess in reality there are very very very few REAL TRUE Sants should that be the criteria. However, we have MANY MANY supposed 'Sants' all preaching differing interpretations... so being correct is obviously not required to be a Sant right?? So is what we are calling a Sant really just a name for someone fully educated in a certain interpretation or group and then possessing charismatic leadership quality so that they naturally draw others to follow them so they can impart what they were taught?? I think those who are spiritually awakened and in 24/7 meditative state on naam etc. I think are more Brahamgyani aren't they?? And Gurbani says only a Brahamgyani will ever really know that they are - nobody else. So to me the difference is: Sant = Vocal - Taught - Parochial - Charismatic - AuthoritarianBrahamgyani = Silent - Self-Awakened - Openminded - Humble - Acquiescent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Saints can be really helpful in one's spiritual journey, but at times, it is possible that a person might not be able to find a Saint. In that case, stick to the feet of Satguru jee. Maharaaj has the power to give you Naam Daan directly or will assist you to locate a Saint.An anecdote from the life of Srimaan Sant Baba Harnaam Singh jee Rampurkheray wale: Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Could anyone please share their thoughts on why Sikh Gurus did NOT write the katha/vikhaya of Guru Granth Sahib Ji? It would have saved the panth ALL the debates revolving around the meanings of Guru Sahib? After-all Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the teasure and what's the use of treasure without the key (meanings)? I think Guru ji actually wanted to encourage debate and discussion of Gurbani as well. Help us to learn to use our own noodles instead of being spoon fed like 'special needs' students? Edited October 21, 2015 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 But then why do so many Sikhs (including on here) just label the leader of a specific jatha or teacher of that jatha as a Sant? No jathas have Sants. Remember how dangerous it is to talk about things you don't have knowledge of. Pedestals and all that. Arse-landings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 No jathas have Sants. Remember how dangerous it is to talk about things you don't have knowledge of. Pedestals and all that. Arse-landings. I was asking a question... If you don't want to answer then be quiet. Mom not falling into your trap by mentioning any names. But there are a few supposed Sants right now who have infuriated various groups by stating interpretations from only one group. Obviously the other groups disagree with this person/ people So how did they come to be called a Sant? Who decides? And what some people think of as a Sant would fall better as terminology as a Brahamgyani and not Sant... By the way how's the weather up there on that pedestal??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was asking a question... If you don't want to answer then be quiet. I have answered it. No jathas have Sants. Not myn fault if you dont understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Conclusions:Bhai saab Bhai Gurdas jee's Bani is the key to the treasure (SSGGSJ)Many arths of SSGGSJ were documented by Baba Mani Singh jeeThe arths in Amir Bhandar teeka should be very close (if not same) to the arths taught by Satguru jee (tenth master)Saints can assist us in exploring the deep layers of GurbaniSaints can be very helpful in one's spiritual progressA person should make some attempt to locate a Saint or supplicate to Satguru jee for assistance in finding oneIf no Saint can be found, then firmly hold onto the feet of Satguru jee (SSGGSJ)Satguru jee can give you Naam Daan directly too (Khanday wala Amrit is a must for a person born in a Sikh family)There have been Saints, who achieved the pinnacle of spirituality, without adopting a teacher (for Gurparsaad) Bhul chuk maaf Edited October 22, 2015 by paapiman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdskler Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 During the reigns of Sikh Gurus for nearly 230 years ( the"Gurudom era") what I have came across that a person of highly religious person is referred to as Gurus, Sri Guru, Babas (eg Baba Buddha Sahib) and Bhais (from Bhai Mani Singh, the Punj Piaras etc) but never came across anybody being referred to as Sant/saint. A highly respected baba Buddha Sahib ji only be refered to as Babaji. Thus when did the word Sant/Saint started to creep into Sikhism? it look like it is 19-20century creation that was never a part of early Sikh history. In another word there were no sant during the Gurudom era. Am I right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hello Folks,It has been a while, but I will share my view here. Sant is not a person.....Guru is not a person....both of the aforementioned are states of the mind that are evidenced in the human life form. A sant has no duality, they are one with the source....the only thing that can have no duality is 'ik oangkar'.....which I understand as that guru-conciousness as manifested in our mind. When the mind become gurmukh, it is connected to that guru-conciousness. There is no question that 'sant' is required to attain oneness, but that 'sant' is not 'a sant' but rather that 'shaant mind'. This will be evidenced in the company of those people who have attained this experience, but nothing is to say that they can wave a magical wand and give it at will. Also, the story of bhai gurdas ji's vaaran being the 'kunji' to gurbani was possibly created in, but definitely propogated, after 1908 when giani badhan singh was shaping the future of sikhi prachar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 correct, from what I have seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 During the reigns of Sikh Gurus for nearly 230 years ( the"Gurudom era") what I have came across that a person of highly religious person is referred to as Gurus, Sri Guru, Babas (eg Baba Buddha Sahib) and Bhais (from Bhai Mani Singh, the Punj Piaras etc) but never came across anybody being referred to as Sant/saint. A highly respected baba Buddha Sahib ji only be refered to as Babaji. Thus when did the word Sant/Saint started to creep into Sikhism? it look like it is 19-20century creation that was never a part of early Sikh history. In another word there were no sant during the Gurudom era. Am I right?Yeah, but when you look at bani - it repeatedly mentions sants specifically (read Sukhmani Sahib for example), so it isn't an entirely new concept. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The "Sant" word appears many times in Gurbani, so it is not a foreign terminology. Sant, Sadhu, Brahman, Brahamgyani, Baba, Bhai Saab, Paramhans, Rishi, Rikhi, etc, all these words refer to a person, who has attained a very high spiritual level.Having said the above, it would be good to know when did this word became popular among Sikhs.Another point - No Sikh should mind, if Puratan Sikhs are refereed by the prefix of "Sant". For examples - Sant Baba Budda jee, Sant Bhai Gurdas jee, etc,. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 No Sikh should mind, if Puratan Sikhs are refereed by the prefix of "Sant". For examples - Sant Baba Budda jee, Sant Bhai Gurdas jee, etc,.Why rewrite history? I'd mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 How would giving respect, by using a different word or adding a prefix to a person's name, be rewriting history? The individual still stays the same.Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 During the reigns of Sikh Gurus for nearly 230 years ( the"Gurudom era") what I have came across that a person of highly religious person is referred to as Gurus, Sri Guru, Babas (eg Baba Buddha Sahib) and Bhais (from Bhai Mani Singh, the Punj Piaras etc) but never came across anybody being referred to as Sant/saint. A highly respected baba Buddha Sahib ji only be refered to as Babaji. Thus when did the word Sant/Saint started to creep into Sikhism? it look like it is 19-20century creation that was never a part of early Sikh history. In another word there were no sant during the Gurudom era. Am I right?After Gurgaddi went to Guru Granth Sahib, the term "Guru" was still in use. The latest references to Sikhs being addressed as Guru, was to my knowledge up to the era of the end of the Lahore Kingdom. Both Bhai Maharaj Singh and Baba Bir Singh Naurangabad were addressed as "Guru" by the Sikhs. This didn't mean they were THE Guru, but Guru as in teacher. The demise of this title for Sikhs came with the SIngh Sabha Lehar, when focus of Guruship was focused more on Guru Granth Sahib, and the term for human began to be discarded. Since then the term Sant came into vogue and has remained since. The word Sant offering no "rivalry" to the status of Guru. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 But then why do so many Sikhs (including on here) just label the leader of a specific jatha or teacher of that jatha as a Sant? It seems like anyone who learns a specific jatha's interpretation and is a good leader (can further the objectives of that jatha) is labelled as a Sant by that jatha. It doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with them meditating 24/7 (although I am not saying that they don't... just that it doesn't seem to be the criteria that was used to declare that person a Sant). Usually a person who has reached the spiritual level of sant is chosen by their predecessor to head that jatha. The criteria for sant is that it is a specific spiritual level, one that we cannot ascertain with our worldly eyes. However, to help us, Guru ji has given markers of their behaviour. That being said, it is important to understand that many sants are still learning and being tested, however their tests are at a much different level than ours. They are still walking the path, just far far ahead of us. There are also those sants who are so far advanced that they have completed all the tests, reached the end of the paht, and are just here to help the rest of us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdskler Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Yeah, but when you look at bani - it repeatedly mentions sants specifically (read Sukhmani Sahib for example), so it isn't an entirely new concept. I agree with you here that the word "sant are mentions in Gurbani but I am making a reference to a person. Thus i doubt it that any Sikhs during the Gurudom period had refer to oneself as a Sant/saint. Otherwise that person have been mention in our Sikh history ('Sikhtory"). I agree with Guest here that in Gurbani, sant refer to one higher Self that have become SANT/ Shaant mind ( In my humble opinion). That Sant is currently is dormant within one self. After Gurgaddi went to Guru Granth Sahib, the term "Guru" was still in use. The latest references to Sikhs being addressed as Guru, was to my knowledge up to the era of the end of the Lahore Kingdom. Both Bhai Maharaj Singh and Baba Bir Singh Naurangabad were addressed as "Guru" by the Sikhs. This didn't mean they were THE Guru, but Guru as in teacher. The demise of this title for Sikhs came with the SIngh Sabha Lehar, when focus of Guruship was focused more on Guru Granth Sahib, and the term for human began to be discarded. Since then the term Sant came into vogue and has remained since. The word Sant offering no "rivalry" to the status of Guru.Here the difference is our Sikhs' Guruji are referred always as "SRI GURU" and as you mention both Bhai Maharaj Singh and Baba Bir Singh Naurangabad and others highly spirited person were addressed as "Guru". At any one time there shall always be one Sri Guru ji. thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Here the difference is our Sikhs' Guruji are referred always as "SRI GURU" and as you mention both Bhai Maharaj Singh and Baba Bir Singh Naurangabad and others highly spirited person were addressed as "Guru". At any one time there shall always be one Sri Guru ji. Almost, "Sri Sat Guru" was the title used for Guru Granth Sahib,. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 yes going back to the first post the issue is the grammar- we do not understand it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: yes going back to the first post the issue is the grammar- we do not understand it. Yes but Prof. Sahib Singh has made a lot of headway in this department. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 On 23/10/2015 at 7:03 PM, chatanga1 said: . Both Bhai Maharaj Singh and Baba Bir Singh Naurangabad were addressed as "Guru" by the Sikhs. Hi. Who are they? First time I have heard of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 28 minutes ago, Guest guest said: Hi. Who are they? First time I have heard of them. Guest jee: Both were Gurmukh Brahamgyanis of the 19th century. They both belonged to the Baba Daya Singh (Jathedar of Panj Pyaray) samprada. You should read their inspiring life stories. Please have a look below: http://www.santgarh.com/bir-singh-naurangabad/ http://www.santgarh.com/baba-maharaj-singh-naurangabad/ Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Guest guest said: Hi. Who are they? First time I have heard of them. Guest jee - You can read the following book for details into the life of the two saints above. http://csjs.com/shop/life-stories-of-great-sikh-saints/ Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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