kdsingh80 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 On 10/31/2015, 8:52:18, paapiman said: Sikhs don't worship any animals. We only worship the one Almighty God. Even in the case of cows, we don't worship them, but they are special animals created by God to provide us valuable food. They act like mothers for humans. How man Sikhs consider Buffalo motherly figure who provide 80% milk in Punjab? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 3 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said: How man Sikhs consider Buffalo motherly figure who provide 80% milk in Punjab? Bro, Buffalo should also be considered as a motherly figure by Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 3 minutes ago, paapiman said: Bro, Buffalo should also be considered as a motherly figure by Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf Punjab is one of biggest exporter of Buffalo meat from India , how many sikhs protested against it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 9 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said: Punjab is one of biggest exporter of Buffalo meat from India , how many sikhs protested against it? Bro, there is even plenty of Alcohol consumption (strictly prohibited in Sikhism) in Punjab. How many Sikhs have protested or are protesting against it? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Bro, there is even plenty of Alcohol consumption (strictly prohibited in Sikhism) in Punjab. How many Sikhs have protested or are protesting against it? Bhul chuk maaf But cow slaughter and export is banned , Sikhs along with Hindu's go voilent , why this discrmination between two motherly figures cow and buffaloes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 4 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said: But cow slaughter and export is banned , Sikhs along with Hindu's go voilent , why this discrmination between two motherly figures cow and buffaloes? Paaji, India is not a Khalsa/Sikh state. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Paaji, India is not a Khalsa/Sikh state. Bhul chuk maaf I am not saying India is sikh state or Hindu state but the fact that you will hardly find any sikh who consider Buffalo motherly figure or who feel pain when Buffalo is slaughtered . But there are plenty of sikhs in India including lot in many who do consider cow as holy and don't like them to be killed or want to go to near their meat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) How well you treat motherly figures by feeding them hormones to make them produce 5 times the milk they normally would, take away their newborn calves so they violently cry out for each other for days, allowing the baby cows to starve to death usually or sell them for meat, hook the Mothers up to milking machines nearly their whole lives, stuff them full of antibiotics to try and combat the massive udder infections caused by machine milking and the oversize udders from hormones, and then kill them at only 4 or 5 yrs old when they no longer serve their purpose as milk machines cutting their lives short by about 75%. Yeah you really treat your Mother figures very well eh? Edited November 9, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) 11 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said: you will hardly find any sikh who consider Buffalo motherly figure or who feel pain when Buffalo is slaughtered . But there are plenty of sikhs in India including lot in many who do consider cow as holy and don't like them to be killed or want to go to near their meat You have an excellent point brother. The above does sounds like hypocrisy. Buffalo should also be respected as a motherly figure. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 9, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 On 10/27/2015, 1:12:24, truthseeker546 said: I know there were battles fought over protecting the cow - not sure how many, anyone have any idea? where there any during the time of the Gurus. - Most likely, none were fought during the times of Satgurus. Later, Sikhs did engage in battles over cow protection. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 On 10/27/2015, 1:12:24, truthseeker546 said: I know there were battles fought over protecting the cow - not sure how many, anyone have any idea? where there any during the time of the Gurus. - Tenth Satguru in his previous life (he was known as Sri Dusht Daman jee) exterminated 100,000 butchers/tyrants to save cows. This information is from a sermon of a Saint. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 10 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said: How well you treat motherly figures by feeding them hormones to make them produce 5 times the milk they normally would, take away their newborn calves so they violently cry out for each other for days, allowing the baby cows to starve to death usually or sell them for meat, hook the Mothers up to milking machines nearly their whole lives, stuff them full of antibiotics to try and combat the massive udder infections caused by machine milking and the oversize udders from hormones, and then kill them at only 4 or 5 yrs old when they no longer serve their purpose as milk machines cutting their lives short by about 75%. Yeah you really treat your Mother figures very well eh? I do agree to this Satkirin, i have had these arguments with the cow protection units i use to volunteer with 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'm assuming the long guest post was Satkririn. If it wasn't thanks anyway. OK to tackle that post first : I agree with the hypocrisy thing of the first paragraph. I would go further and say any religious person should have respect for all animals and mother nature as a whole. Just find the hypocrisy interesting when scripture gets involved. You made some interesting points about God and his relations to our world. - as this is not the topic for this I will copy and past those paragraphs on my earlier post about Gods and Gurus and we can discuss this more over there. You made some points of general animal welfare - I fully respect your opinions. however I was looking at the cow issue from a Sikh scripture/historical perspective. As aforementioned Sikhs have gone to war (killed humans) to protect cows - due to their understanding/interpretations of Sikki. I'm questioning that idea - where does it come from and how does it fit into greater Sikki thought. For me it doesn't. your point on : "Those passages which say 'a cow without milk is useless' are pointing to the fact that cows were commonly kept for milk back then, and nothing more." : well that's one interpretation - however it also says "birds without wings" - no one kept birds without any wings - I think its alluding to something else (naam and mind like you suggested) however the fact that the examples that are given are commonly accepted. A bird that has no wings is pretty useless - can't do anything. Interesting that the cow would be mentioned in this example. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) The fact is that Sikhs are not in political/military power anywhere in the world. When Sikhs do rule the world they will take care of cows and buffaloes. If some idiots are mistreating cows, they will be punished by Satguru jee for their deeds. How can an ordinary innocent person be blamed for the mistreatment of cows? There is so much corruption in India. Now, can we blame innocent civilians for the corruption, by claiming that they are being part of the system? No, we cannot. Similarly, we cannot blame the ordinary people who consume dairy products for the mistreatment of cows. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman I'm sorry but I can't seem to make you see logical points, maybe I'm not explaining it properly. There are a lot of things about the nature of God and other religions, I'll copy and paste this onto the other post Gods and Gurus.- so I won't address them here. OK. - "Almighty God's command is to protect cows. We will do it. If we rule the world, we won't force people to believe that cow is an estimable animal or like a mother. They can treat cow, just like other animals, but they won't be allowed to butcher cows. They are like mothers to us. What will you do if someone comes to butcher your mother? " I think you missed my point entirely. What I was trying to say is regardless of your belief about anything, how can you force that idea on another people. For instance you believe that the cow is like your mother, so you won't allow even other people to kill the cow for meat. That's forcing your beliefs on others? you seem to take this reference of mother literally when it comes to stopping people eat beef, - or is the cow is just like your mother in all regards/ Like SatKirin and others have pointed out there is a lot of hypocrisy, Is anyone drugging your mother so she produces more milk? What will you do if someone comes to butcher your mother, I would be outraged, so how would you feel if someone tried milking your mother? I should think that would be quite offensive, so why isn't it when you milk the cow? obvious difference? I would also imagine you don't keep your mother in the barn or whatever they use in the Punjab, etc etc. you see what I'm getting at. There is an obvious difference between a cow and your mother. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman Quote When did I claim that Sikhism is free from Hinduism? Can you please provide proof? How can you stop us from picking and choosing from faiths? Where is our freedom? OK - so you admit you pick and choose from other faiths? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 14 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: What will you do if someone comes to butcher your mother, I would be outraged, so how would you feel if someone tried milking your mother? I should think that would be quite offensive, so why isn't it when you milk the cow? obvious difference? I would also imagine you don't keep your mother in the barn or whatever they use in the Punjab, etc etc. you see what I'm getting at. There is an obvious difference between a cow and your mother. Cows are like mothers. One cannot deny that. Why would they be created by God to produce so much milk? Who do you think that milk is for? Do you think a calf can drink that much milk, with getting into trouble? There is a difference between a cow and a human mother, as cow is still in the physical form of an animal. They don't need to live in a house, dress up, brush their teeth, etc. If I say that you are as brave as a Lion, does that mean you are physically a Lion? Don't you understand such basic figures of speech. If I say that your mother is like my mother - does that mean that I actually came out of your mother's body? Bro, think more before you talk. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 9 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: @paapiman OK - so you admit you pick and choose from other faiths? And you admit that you lied on a public forum? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 20 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: , Is anyone drugging your mother so she produces more milk? Did you read the above posts carefully? Are you paying attention? Are you here to learn or cause trouble? Have your initial questions been answered or not? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Oh great the buffalo has made it to the holy animal list now. Congratulations are in order for the buffalo. Let's see, I prefer goats milk myself, can I get a vote for the humble goat. 1) I think its special because it not only give nutritious milk, Goats milk has; less sugar content then cows milk and more calcium, magnesium, potassium, vitamin C, Vitamin A and protein then cows milk. 2)This super nutritious milk is also used to make awesome cheese - feta is my personal favourite. Other awesome cheeses from the Goat : humdoldt fog, Saint-Maure de Touraine and Chevre ! So many varieties around the world. Please see : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_cheese for world Goats cheeses. 3)The goat also give very important wool, which cows don't. the cashmere goat provides cashmere - one of the most important materials for my soft jumpers. ;-) The Angora goats provide the wool to make Mohair - another important material for clothing. In fact there are over twenty different types of fibre that can be obtained from various species of Goats globally, maybe more. Common on guys - if that doesn't say Mommy - I don't know what does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 27 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: I think you missed my point entirely. What I was trying to say is regardless of your belief about anything, how can you force that idea on another people. For instance you believe that the cow is like your mother, so you won't allow even other people to kill the cow for meat. That's forcing your beliefs on others? If Sikhs rule the world, they will also not allow public liquor stores, public sex, public nudity, etc. What will you say then? Forcing beliefs? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: Oh great the buffalo has made it to the holy animal list now. Congratulations are in order for the buffalo. Let's see, I prefer goats milk myself, can I get a vote for the humble goat. 1) I think its special because it not only give nutritious milk, Goats milk has; less sugar content then cows milk and more calcium, magnesium, potassium, vitamin C, Vitamin A and protein then cows milk. 2)This super nutritious milk is also used to make awesome cheese - feta is my personal favourite. Other awesome cheeses from the Goat : humdoldt fog, Saint-Maure de Touraine and Chevre ! So many varieties around the world. Please see : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_cheese for world Goats cheeses. 3)The goat also give very important wool, which cows don't. the cashmere goat provides cashmere - one of the most important materials for my soft jumpers. ;-) The Angora goats provide the wool to make Mohair - another important material for clothing. In fact there are over twenty different types of fibre that can be obtained from various species of Goats globally, maybe more. Common on guys - if that doesn't say Mommy - I don't know what does. Is there any religious scripture which promotes the idea of sacredness of a goat? Has any Abrahamic Prophet (or any other) made any injunction, which calls for goat protection? Do you any evidence (scientific or religious) which can prove that goat's milk is meant for human consumption? You are free to call anyone mommy. It's your wish. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman Quote And you admit that you lied on a public forum? No I didn't lie. I did however make a mistake. I assumed you had said something when in fact it someone else. I'm sorry you never said Sikhism is free from Hinduism, that was someone else. I think the problem is we have lots of different people here and of course different sects within Sikhism, I'm confusing different people. It would help me a great deal if people can put there sects next to their name so I know where you are coming from? What are you Paapiman? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 minute ago, truthseeker546 said: @paapiman No I didn't lie. I did however make a mistake. I assumed you had said something when in fact it someone else. I'm sorry you never said Sikhism is free from Hinduism, that was someone else. I think the problem is we have lots of different people here and of course different sects within Sikhism, I'm confusing different people. It would help me a great deal if people can put there sects next to their name so I know where you are coming from? What are you Paapiman? Bro, I would suggest you choose one person to have a debate with. Multiple people will cause confusion. Think about it and pick a person. Hopefully, other people will have the decency to stay away from the discussion. Also, you need to be aware that there are heretic(s) on this forum too. Rest is your choice. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman Quote If Sikhs rule the world, they will also not allow public liquor stores, public sex, public nudity, etc. What will you say then? Forcing beliefs? There is a big difference between laws the help bring about a common cohesive environment - laws which are agreed upon by most of the members of a society, including women, ethnic minorities, religious minorities etc These would be banning acts of public nudity, public sex etc - as they are banned in secular western countries. And say religious law which are not agreed upon by everyone – say killing cows for food. That’s discrimination and religious intolerance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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