Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Sikhism Uncovered- Q&A ( Why Sikhism is Wrong )

59 posts in this topic

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Now that I have got your attention.. the following is a discussion that i came across on a King College Board in the Uk a few years back and posted up on my site, where Gurmat was being attacked and a Gursikh stood up and faught to perserve the Honour of His Guru's path. I learned a great deal from it. These are common questions posed to a Sikh, that I feel Sikhs should know the answers to.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites


Sikhism "Uncovered"

A brief introduction

Please can anyone give me quotes from the GGS, Gurbani to answer these questions. No guess work, or analogy please.

If you cannot you should know that the Guru's left an incomplete religion. If so it is incumbent on you [the reader] to select the correct religion, which can answer these questions [More too come soon]. A complete religion free from refutation.

1. It is not permissible for sikhs to cut their hair, be it on the face, head or genitalia and elsewhere. This is because you should remain the way God created you? Correct? -Then why do you cut your nails. Why are the Guru's portrayed in pictures with short finely smoothed off nails, like they've just been to Toni & Guy's?

2. If Manjit Basoota is found guilty of first-degree murder. What does Sikhism say about exactly how she should be punished?

3. How do you deal with thieves?

4. Why did the Guru's fail to mention a catastrophic flood with encircled the whole earth, and left one family on a ship laden with animals? Christianity, Judaism and Islam all speak extensively about this. It’s a bit of a big point to miss. There is no use trying to say, "oh, if it was told before it doesn’t need to be told again in the GGS". Because if the books of these religions are flawed then it would certainly need mentioning in order to clarify doubts.

If the Gurus said that all religions all lead to the same path, so you'll be ok whichever religion your on. Then why didn't they mention them all in depth in their writings? The Christians will tell you that when Jesus came he explained in detail the past lives of the Prophets before him e.g. Adam, Moses, Abraham etc. The Muslims will tell you the same. Muhammad told in detail about the creation of man from Adam and all the Prophets prior to him e.g. Jesus, Adam, Moses, Abraham etc. Moses {Jewish Prophet}, Jesus {Christian Prophet} and Muhammad {Muslim Prophet} all spoke of the creation of man from Adam and Eve and the Rejection of Satan from Heaven after he showed pride and refused to prostrate to Adam on the command of God. But with Sikhism, if all these past religions were right why don't we believe in Adam as the first man etc. Was there a sudden change of plan when the Guru's came along? Now man was no longer created from Adam? 5. Why did the Guru's come one after the other in succession, some even being alive while he other Guru was still alive-waiting to be promoted. The other major religions talk of gaps of approx. 500, 1000, years before God sent another Prophet to correct the people on their innovations and corruption's.

6. Why does Sikhism deny Adam and Eve to be the first man and woman? Hinduism is old. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in Adam and Eve and their stories are mentioned in detail, and that of their initial two sons. Was Hinduism right, then God sent Judaism, which totally contradicted it, then God sent Christianity which contradicted Hinduism but agreed "in the main" with Judaism. Then God sent Islam which contradicted Hinduism, but agreed "in the main" with Christianity and Judaism. Then God thought oh no, ….whoops actually Hinduism was right,. There was no Adam and Eve.

7. In addition to the above: Hindu's burn their dead. Jews bury, Christians bury, Muslims bury,….OOP's oh no Hinduism was right again burn them for sikhs. The tradition of burying was started by the son of Adam.

8. The other Prophets did not know of their Prophethood until the Angel Gabriel came to them to give them the good news of it. But for Sikhs the Guru's knew they would be next because they were chosen by the previous Guru on his deathbed as one example.

9. The Angel Gabriel is mentioned as the Leader of the Angels in all 3 major faiths. Why did Sikhism fail to realise this. Did the Guru's meet Gabriel himself? If so, please give his description.

10. The argument we are all on a path which leads to God, no matter which we take cannot apply. Not everyone worships one God.

E.g. 1.Christians worship Jesus and say he is God manifest on earth. Some Christians say he is the son of god, hence Mary being his mother is now the Mother of god. So some Christians worship her 2. Some Jews worship a prophet they claim is now the son of God [Ezra] 3. Some people worship spirits in trees and say they are god. 4. Some people don't even believe in God! 5. Agnostics believe in God but say we don’t know how to worship God i.e. the religions, so just do your own thing and be good.

So how can we be equal [As sikhism states]. These paths all lead to a different way. Not all to God. I'll give you an extreme example of my head. If you have one man that worships a man, and another man that worships a dog. What do they get at the end when they die and eventually meet their god? Do you get a dog or a man? Or a combination a dog-man?

11. Twenty-five Hindu sages and 22 Muslim sages contributed to the Guru Granth Sahib in addition to some of the Guru's. Proof that this book is not form God. But from the collective writings of men.

12. Abraham is given the Title of the "Father of Monotheism" in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Why is he not mentioned in depth in Sikhi? Come on Father of monotheism!!!

13. This idea of reincarnation is rejected from the 3 major religions. Once again was Hinduism right…..then the 3 faiths God sent after it were contradicting it, then sikhism came and said no oops! Yep Hinduism was right, reincarnation is right. More so, it was eliminated in the Books of God 3 times in succession!

14. The statement "the Guru Granth Sahib was written directly by the Guru and involves writing from other religions personally selected by the Gurus"... What does this mean? It can only mean that they took from their books? So the Guru's took from the Bible, Torah and Quran and Hindu Scriptures. Even if they personally selected them, they came from the other religions books did they not? So did the gurus take from the books or not? Even if they translated them into Punjabi and then inserted them into the guru granth sahib, their origin is from other books right? Or wrong? -Again not revelation from God.

15. Sikhs say that Guru Gobind Singh explained details about other prophets. So can you tell me in detail from the guru's words about the creation of Adam. About how the angels questioned his creation. Can you provide details on how Eve was created. Can you provide detailed accounts of the lives of all the other major prophets e.g. Abraham, Moses, Noah. Did the Guru's speak about a vast flood which engulfed the whole earth and only left Noah and his family alive with animals on his ark? Come on this is a big thing to have happened in the history of mankind. So it should be accounted for in details right. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all discuss this in depth. Recently, near Turkey a mountain has been found which when examined using sophisticated equipment they found the outline of a vast ship shaped vessel. Excavation is still continuing but will take years, or the ship cannot be totally removed because it may just disintegrate. this ship was aged using carbon dating from fragments removed to be 1000's and 1000's of years old. If you want more info on this I can give you references and the whole report if you like. This Ark discovery also appeared on a BBC documentary. The location of the ark was already foretold by Muhammad.

16. Give Prophecies in Sikhism not taken from the other religions that have come true. Or will in the future. With proof for stories that are not well documented.

17. The past experiences of these previous prophets lets us learn about their methodology and so can help us to understand the religion better. On that note. The destruction of the City of Sodom. Where one prophet called Lot was, it talks about how all the people became transgressors and began to engage in acts of homosexuality [which is where the term Sodomy comes from] men with men, and women with women. Only this Prophet was ok and his daughters. He told the people to stop this but they did not. So God sent 2 angels in the form of very Handsome men to the town. Lot became worried for these men and knew what the Cities people would want. When the town people saw these men they wanted to have sex with them but Lot said take my daughters instead. But the people said no. Then these 2 men told Lot that they were angels and told him to leave the town with his daughters. They then destroyed the City. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all speak of this. This is not time wasted, because it shows people that if they transgress boundaries laid down by God, then they will acquire His Wrath. It is a good lesson to learn. Why is there no mention of this in the guru granth sahib?

18. Abraham is one of The most highly respected Prophets for Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. They all agree on his life history. How he destroyed all the idols worshipped by the people of his City and then left an axe around the head of the biggest idol. And said to the people the big idol did it. To prove to the people that an idol cannot benefit you in any way. The people said "these idols cannot talk or move" .... The people then cast Abraham into a huge pit they dug engulfed in a raging fire. God said to the fire, be cool for Abraham. So he emerged from it untouched. Then God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son for God's sake. As Abraham was about to strike, God told him that he was pleased with him and he gave Abraham a ram/sheep to sacrifice instead.

19. Or how about the Prophet Jonah who was engulfed whole by a whale, then was released on God's command onto a beach after he prayed inside his belly. All the other faiths talk of this event. These above are not little things but major events in the history of mankind. Come on the flooding of the whole earth! A whole City destroyed in one go!

20. One important issue is the second coming of Jesus! His descent from Heaven to earth has been told, in detail, both in the Gospel and Quran. Both Christianity and Islam state that he will be sent to kill the Anti-Christ [or Dajjal]. Is this a little thing? I think not. This man will proclaim to all the people on the earth that he is God! And he will have the power to bring the dead back to life etc. Don't you think the guru's should have given some warning to people not to follow this man. And that Jesus himself will come and destroy him after he rules the world? Within history, the coming of a Prophet was declared. This you will find in the Jewish Torah and The Gospel. So the arrival of Jesus and Muhammad was already made clear. It was up to the people if they wanted to accept it. The books also had some detail on the coming of the next messenger. His area of residence or his family was talked about, or other details were mentioned. So I want to know how these previous revelations from God happened to miss out the coming of not one but 10 men! [The ten Guru's].All one after the other. And it could have also have been pointed out that they would all be from India. But you will never find this in previous revelations. Why?

21. The other religions celebrate days and acts done by previous prophets. E.g.

1.The offering of a sacrifice of a sheep by Muslims on Eid. This they do because of the offering Abraham gave [nearly sacrificing his son, and instead sacrificing a sheep/ram on God's command.] 2. The day Moses defeated the armies of The Pharaoh. Muslims and Jews celebrate by fasting on this day. etc.

The other religions differ on issues but on some points they all [Judaism, Christianity, Islam] agree: Notably:

1. The creation of Man from Adam. The creation of Eve. 2. The past stories of Sodom, Noah's Ark, The Prophet Joseph etc. 3. Abraham's destruction of the idols and how he was cast into the fire, yet he walked out alive untouched. 4. Abraham nearly sacrificing his son for the sake of God. then God commanded he slaughter a ram/sheep in his place. And that this was a test for Abraham. 5. Prophet Jonah being engulfed by the whale 6. Prophet David and Goliath 7. Prophet Solomon and the Queen of Sheba etc. etc. In addition. All these religions celebrate, or acknowledge, the achievements of past prophets prior to their own i.e. Moses, Jesus, Muhammad. They celebrate their achievements by fasting for example. Or offering sacrifices etc. Why didn't the gurus tell us to fast, or celebrate or even just remember, the achievements of the past prophets? No mention is even made of some of these Prophets. Like they didn't even exist. With billions of followers, you have to except that these men did exist on this earth at some point in time. But its up to you whether you want to follow them or not? Angels. One of the foundations of belief of all 3 faiths is the belief in the creation of the angels. Their creation is discussed in detail. They are created from pure white light. The Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree on this and some names of angels are even told. Some of these are Azraeel, Mikaeel [Michael], Jibraeel [Gabriel]. The most highly regarded angel is Jibraeel. He was the one who sent the revelation down to Jesus [The Gospel] and to Muhammad [The Quran].Why doesn't sikhism make mention of angels. And how they also came down on Gods command and fought some of the battles alongside the believers. Why wasn't Jibraeel or any angel sent to any of the Guru's? Satan [or shaytaan]. He is mentioned in explicit detail and how he was arrogant and full of pride and refused to bow to Adam on the command of God. Every Prophet has made mention of him by name. They also tell us that he will be around on this earth till the Day of Judgement. Then he will also be judged by God. Satan even came to some of the Prophets and spoke to them namely Moses and Jesus. He tried to tempt Jesus to jump of a cliff and said that god will save you. Jesus replied that God is the One who tests. It is not right for His creation to test Him. Satan also asked Moses to intercede for him and ask God to forgive him. So God told Moses to tell Satan to bow to the Grave of Adam. Satan refused and replied he did not bow to Adam in his life and will not bow down at his grave. This account is found in all 3 faiths. Also, out of all the Prophets, God sent angels to speak to them. But God spoke directly to Moses. Satan talking to a Prophet, and tempting another Prophet. God Speaking to Moses! Surely these accounts should have been documented. But, they are nowhere to be found in sikhism.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

GURSIKH RESPONSE To ABOVE list of Questions:

Part 1 of Response:

Since you have sent me a full 41 questions to reply to, this may take some time seeing as how I am in exam time at U of T. The first three or four questions you ask in your post deal with the Sikh system of Law. Sikhism is given a clear system of law. Satguru Gobind Singh in his farsightedness knew that not all crimes are the same and thus no one punishment can be given for them all: does the thief who steals bread recieve same punishment as one who steals nike shoes? I think not! Thus Satguru said "khalsaa mero roop hai khaas, khalsay main houn karo nivaas". The khalsa is my true form, I abide within the khalsa. Satguru jee gave power to decide these things to the Khalsa in the form of the Panj piaaray. The Panj piaaray look at each case and then give a case by case decision. Not blanket amputations for all as some religions may perscribe. There are rehit namas and tankha namas dictated by Satguru Gobind Singh that clearly outline what is right and what is wrong. Adultery for your info is a bujjar kurehat or major sin for which a Sikh is thrown out of the panth and must present themselves before the panj piaaray for rebaptism and corrective measures.

Even beyond the rehit namas and tankha namas, there was the concept of Miri and Piri: temporal and spiritual aspects to Gurmat. Satguru Hargobind Sahib gave us the Sikh parliament of Akaal Takhat. The Sarbat Khalsa is the parliament and the motions passed are called gurmatas. A system of passing gurmattas is by consulting Satguru Granth Sahib and then voting on each motion. The Five Takhats are the centres of Sikh power and the main headquarter being Akaal Takhat. The Five Jatehdars are the "cabinet" of teh Panth and organise the Panth's movement. The Jatehdar of Akaal Takhat has power as spokesperson of the Panth. Akalee Phoola Singh for example was jatehdar during Maharaja Ranjeet Singh's time and awarded him the punishment of a fine and a caning due to his adultery with the Muslim girl Moran.

Thus it is clear that Sikhism does have a law in Rehit namas and tankha namas along with the rehit which is given during Amrit Sanchaar. The local decision are taken by Panj Piaaray which can be appealed to the takhats and final decisions are taken by the Akaal Takhat. The Sikh parliament is Sarbat Khalsa and motions are called Gurmatas. Seems like a system to me.

Satguru Gobind Singh has given power to Khalsa: "khalsaa meree jaan kee jaan" and also as I mentioned earlier he said that Khalsa was his very form and they were the same. Satguru jee in Bhai Nand Lal Singh's tankha nama lists many different crimes "dhee bhain kaa paisaa khai..." " one who does not give a tithe to charity, killing children, Please check out the different rehit/tankha namas if you don't understand what I'm saying about diff crimes being outlined.

Part 2 of Response:

It has been falsely stated that gurmat can't describe the creation of the universe. Satguru has given the process clearly in Akaalee baanee. Satguru first describes what was before creation: "Arbad, narbad dhundoo kaaraa, dharn na gugana hukum apaaraa" pg 1035. This means for countless ages there was utter darkness (nothingess), no heaven or earth. The will of akaal reigned everywhere. No day no night, no sun, no moon. Only akaal stayed in solitary mediatation.

Then guru jee says "keetaa pasaao eko kavao". With his one word, the universe was created. Then what was the process? on pg 1037-38 Satguru describes that the elements of air and water were evolved along with everything else in the universe. on pg 19, Satguru says "sache te pavanaa bhaiyaa pavne te jal hoi. jal tay tribhavan saajiyaa, ghat ghat jot samaay" from the true on, air (gases) were created and from them was created water. From water arose the three worlds (metaphor or common term for the universe and all within) with his divine light within all bodies.

Satguru continues and says, "kai baar pasario paasaar, sadaa sadaa ik ekankaar" many times has creation been created (the universe been created) only Akaal is forever. This clearly shows that satguru has told us that the universe has been created, destroyed and recreated many times: we are just in one cycle of this creation. And even commenting on other parts of the universe we can't see, satguru says "kaytay pavan panee baisantar" countless are the airs (atmospheres), waters and fires.

Thus it has been shown Satguru has given Sikhs an understanding of gurmat that is very scientific and matches the views of contemporary scientists. Very unlike humanity being created out of mud and a human rib. And by the way, what about dinosaurs? Did dinosaurs live with adam and eve? All scientists agree that dinosaurs came much before humans. Bible mentions nothing of them and insists humans came first. hmm....

Part 3 of Response:

You don't understand Satguru's banee at all. You claimed that Satguru didn't give an accurate revelation of creation and others have said Satguru himself was asking questions about creation. I have given clear quotes showing what Satguru said about creation. Satguru clearly says that through Akaal's will the world was created and then gases, from gases came water from water arose life. The moslems say that the first creatures were adam and eve. that everything came out ready made. There is no mention of dinosaurs in the whole context of the situation. The semetic religions give a detailed description of what creation was like and how humanity started: I challenge this rendition and call it ridiculous as it makes no sense and dinosaurs are no where to be mentioned. It is a fact that dinosaurs came before humans through carbon dating etc. Where were the dinosaurs in adam and eve's time? And you said that Noah's arch had been discovered: great! Must be one hell of a ship! To have two of every animal in the world! No ship could hold that much! There are too many creatures and what would they eat while on board? Eachother? oh-oh, then that species would be destroyed! And did you know that from a biological standpoint, when the population of a species is reduced to a small number, let alone two, it is called a bottle neck. The resulting offspring and species that is created is very unfit and dosn't usually last as the loss in the gene pool dosn't let it have any adaptive capabilities to new environments. The cheetah is prime example. The cheetah's are succeptible to all kinds of disease and they rarely have viable offspring. You are claiming all species are like this! What a stupid thought!


1)We keep kesh because guru told us to do so. Nothing more. Kesh are also a marker of Sikh identity that identify to the world who is a Sikh. Sikhs walk the earth annoucing proudly there religion while others give no sign of their convictions. In addition, hair and nails are totally different. Having long nails inhibits use of the and also is dirty as bacteria can live under the nails. Long hair is quite healthy as it is even a reflection of good health : (when healthy, hair shines, when sick, it loses lustre), it is also not an impediment to daily life. In fact, you'll be healthier if you have long hair: no body resources go to replacing the hair that was cut: isn't it a slap on the face when you shave and then a day later, the hair returns? Maybe it was supposed to be there! Nails, if left uncut, will break. hair never will. 2/3) Sikhism is given a clear system of law. Satguru Gobind Singh in his farsightedness knew that not all crimes are the same and thus no one punishment can be given for them all: does the thief who steals bread recieve same punishment as one who steals nike shoes? I think not! Thus Satguru said "khalsaa mero roop hai khaas, khalsay main houn karo nivaas". The khalsa is my true form, I abide within the khalsa. Satguru jee gave power to decide these things to the Khalsa in the form of the Panj piaaray. The Panj piaaray look at each case and then give a case by case decision. Not blanket amputations for all as some religions may perscribe. There are rehit namas and tankha namas dictated by Satguru Gobind Singh that clearly outline what is right and what is wrong. Adultery for your info is a bujjar kurehat or major sin for which a Sikh is thrown out of the panth and must present themselves before the panj piaaray for rebaptism and corrective measures. Even beyond the rehit namas and tankha namas, there was the concept of Miri and Piri: temporal and spiritual aspects to Gurmat. Satguru Hargobind Sahib gave us the Sikh parliament of Akaal Takhat. The Sarbat Khalsa is the parliament and the motions passed are called gurmatas. A system of passing gurmattas is by consulting Satguru Granth Sahib and then voting on each motion. The Five Takhats are the centres of Sikh power and the main headquarter being Akaal Takhat. The Five Jatehdars are the "cabinet" of teh Panth and organise the Panth's movement. The Jatehdar of Akaal Takhat has power as spokesperson of the Panth. Akalee Phoola Singh for example was jatehdar during Maharaja Ranjeet Singh's time and awarded him the punishment of a fine and a caning due to his adultery with the Muslim girl Moran. Thus it is clear that Sikhism does have a law in Rehit namas and tankha namas along with the rehit which is given during Amrit Sanchaar. The local decision are taken by Panj Piaaray which can be appealed to the takhats and final decisions are taken by the Akaal Takhat. The Sikh parliament is Sarbat Khalsa and motions are called Gurmatas. Seems like a system to me.

4. SGGS is not a history book like other scriptures. It is a guide to find Akaal in oneself. How will knowing about a flood that happened millions of year's ago help me in my life as a human finding God? It won't , so who cares? By your own logic, the koran is flawed as it mentions no dinosaurs or why they disappeared, it dosn't say anything about alexander the great or other conquerors, or anything about the great civillizations.

Next argument: all paths lead to the same place: god. This is not found anywhere in bani. In bani, it is written that the only true faith is love. All other religions are stuck in empty rituals. Only Satguru's Akaalee panth follows the path of love. Tell me, a good number of Christians and Muslims beg to go to heaven and only worship Akaal out of fear of hell. Gurmat says that heaven and hell are of no consequence: only loving akaal is important. Raaj na chao, mukat na chaao hon, mun preet charan kamlaaray: I don't want kingdom, emancipation, I am in love with the lotus feet of the beloved. Sikhism is based on love of all 7. Sikhs, by convention, cremate bodies. It is not a divine rule though. We don't care about the body, we know the atmaa (soul) has left and all that is left is dirt. We don't care about the body. Sometimes it is even buried at sea. Why? because the body is nothing without a soul. 8/9) Satguru jee did not need any angels to reveal prophethood, they were told by Akaal, to their face. All subsequent gurus after Guru Nanak are just the divine light passed from body to body. It was the same guru just in different forms. Satguru told us "Shabad guru, surat dhun chela" This means that the guru is shabad and not a mortal body. Thus the flame of shabad was passed from body to body until now where it rests in SGGS. In Abrahamic tradition one prophet out of 125,000 prophets got to see Allah and he too stayed unconcious for many days. In the Sikh tradition every Sikh is supposed to see God and hundreds of Sikhs live even today who have seen God and who get love of God everyday, every moment. The guru's didn't need angels. They had God. 10.) See above. Geez these are redundant. 11. Actually, there weren't 22 Muslim sages who contributed to SGGS. They were poets who had converted to Sikhi and stayed with the guru all their lives. The Bhats found satguru jee and never left. Whatever is in SGGS is meant to guide us to akaal. Whatever Satguru said, was divinely inspired. Everything that would help Sikhs to reach God is included in SGGS.Satguru jee was speaking to Bhai Lalo, and in the shabad that he recieved from Akaal, he said "jaisee mai avai khasam kee banee..." this line can be found in SGGS. It means, however Akaal sends me banee, that is what I speak. It is also a line in banee that states "Dhur kee banee aiee tin saglee chint mitaaee" this banee comes from Dhur, Akaal. The muslim, christian scriptures etc. were written years after their respective prophets had died. Satguru jee wrote everything himself so no one could change the word of God.

12. So the muslims admit that Abraham inspired their religion? Sikhi was inspired by Akaal. In fact, most of what Muslims believe mirror what was said by the first of the apocolyptic faiths Zoroastrians (formed 1500 B.C.E). 13. The Truth is the truth. No matter who said it first. Even the worst person on earth can say something and if it is truth, just because it came from this evil person's mouth, dosn't make it wrong. Same with reincarnation. Just because hindus said it first, dosn't mean it was wrong. Satguru told us the truth, dosn't matter who shared or didn't share this view. In fact, gurmat doesn't say heaven/hell don't exist. They do. It's just that they are for recieving the fruit of your karma and once finished, you are born again in a life-form to reach the goal of merger with akaal. 14. This statement is by a student of Sikhi, not by a guru. There's no point even discussing it. SGGS is a compilation of the writings of Satguru and the additional work of those who were one with god and whose writingings can help reach merger with akaal. There is not translation from the bible/koran/torah etc. 15. Guru Gobind Singh did not give life details of all prophets. He translated some Hindu works, some say, for the sake of making them available to the general public. Satguru Gobind Singh says "Raam raheem puraan kuraan, aneyk kahai mat ayk na manio, simrat sastr bayd sabhai baho bheyd kahai hum eyk na jaanio. Sris aspaan kirpaa tumree kar mai na kahyo sabh tohai bakhanyo" Meaning raam, raheem, purans, koran, they say many things, I don't believe in any of these scriptures. Simritis, shastras, semetic books, say different revelations, I don't care for any. Akaal, by your grace, I have said nothing, only what you have spoken through me." 16. SGGS is not a prophecy book nor a history book. Guru jee didn't care about these empty practices, he told us to love Akaal and reach merger. That's what SGGS is all about. 17. SGGS gives moral instruction directly and through allussion to stories. I can give examples if you wish. Satguru did not however repeat the bible or the koran. See the above post for more proof. 18. See above. we don't care about abraham. He has nothing for the Sikhs. We are instructed by Akaal alone. NOt some guy. 19. repeated question 20. All the semitic books are based on each other. Of course they will be similar if they are built upon each other. Each writer read the previous scriptures so there is bound to be repitition. We don't need a second coming of anything. We have our guru right now (the living Guru SGGS). We have a means to merge with Akaal. How can a dead guru help his followers? 21. We don't celebrate fictitious accounts of the semitic religions. We don't believe in killing animals and giving to god in this way. We have mercy for all life. The semitic religions all blossomed from the middle east. All are based on each other. Thus you share holidays where you perform pointless rituals such as sheep slaughter. Of course, what a great offering to God! Giving him a dead goat that he had sent to this planet alive. Great!

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 2 ( Why Sikhism is Wrong) :

1. Why did Baba Sri Chand reject his own father's [Guru Nanak] sikhi?

2. If killing animals is a sin, how come Gobind Rai slaughtered 5 goats when he was choosing the oanj pyaareh? Was he committing a sin?

3. Whats the point in cutting your hair, because if God willed it to be like it is, leave it alone. You see it keeps coming back no matter how many times you cut it....right???

Well...No wrong...

Then why do people go bald? Why do you cut your nails? You can keep cutting them, but they will keep on comming back


Well, let me say, I am certainly impressed with your efforts to discredit Sikhi. But this set of questions is very inferior to the previous set and the previous one wasn't that great to start with. Ok, I'll answer these as well. But I'll also include a couple more shots at the koran in other posts. Let us begin.

1) Baba Sri Chand was upset he didn't get to be the next guru and Guru Angad was chosen. Thus, he left his home and began to travel. In the time of the 4th Satguru, Guru Ramdas, he visited the Sikhs again and was so impressed by my Satguru, he acknowledged Satguru Ram Das and the previous gurus as the true Successors. After this point, Sri Chand became a true Sikh and he was even consulted on the banee Sukhmanee Sahib. SRi Chand then asked Guru Hargobind Sahib for something to link him and his followers to the pant for eternity: a son to adopt. Guru Hargobind then gave Sri Chand Baba Gurditta, who is revered as the successor of Baba Sri Chand. Even today, Udasi sadhs are considered part of the panth and they revere Guru Granth Sahib and study it. Thus, Sri Chand did not reject Sikhi.

2) Satguru Gobind Singh did not slaughter 5 goats. IF you study the historical records of the mughal spy who witnessed this miraculous event, he rights that it seems as if the guru has interchanged the heads and bodies of the 5 he has chosen. He further says that this can be nothing but a miracle. I'll get you the exact author's name and the quote in the future. All speculation about goats is just that: speculation. Satguru nor the panj piare did ever reveal what happened in the tent. To this day, eating meat or killing innocent animals is one of the four cardinal sins in Gurmat. You may bring up the nihangs: they are a group within Sikhi just like the ahmediyas and Ismailis in Islam. They are Sikhs but they have slightly diff beliefs. But even the nihangs don't claim Satguru killed goats.

3. You must be illiterate and simply cutting and pasting what your mullah tells you to. Nails break off naturally, that's why women with long nails are so concerned with not breaking them. Hair dosn't break naturally. Why do people go bald? They go bald naturally, not by shaving! But you entirely missed the purpose of keeping hair: because the guru told us to! Not for any other reason.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 3 (Why Sikhism Is Wrong):

1. Sikhi seems to talk a lot about time-wasting rituals, but lets see....

My sikh friend said it takes him 40-45 minutes to do his hair and wrap his pagg around his head every morning, but , what if he woke up late one day for work...whats he gonna do....???

This pagg tieing is the biggest waste of time sikhi has brought forth and yet it claims "oh...we dont have time wasting rituals".. how is tieing a pag going to get you closer to God???

My answer: "Bring back the classic starch paggs!!!"

2. Did you know that a lot of sikh guys under the pagg are bald?

So what the point in having a pagg, when you've only got a bush above each ear to put in it!

My answer: "Shave ya head, take the pagg off. It doesnt mean nothing to these individuals"


1. Gurmat is against all blind rituals that have no meaning. Now: about your Sikh friend. He must have only one arm. You see, combing one's hair takes no more than five minutes and that's if one is lethargic. And finally tying a dastaar: mine takes again, no more than five minutes. So, a total of ten minutes. I dare say that is less than cutting one's hair and shaving. As for washing of the hair: I don't expect muslims to understand about this topic as they don't have to bathe as they come from a religion that dosn't understand anything but desert life.

2. So what if they are bald? The dastaar still identifies them as Sikhs. Much more than what I can say for any other religion. We keep our hair because guru told us to. Nothing more.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Question 4 (Why Sikhism Is Wrong):

1. Guru Nanak chose his successor by throwing a plate into the mud, and he this guy went and fetched it....

"What kind of a way is that to choose a successor!!!"

2. Guru Nanak went to Mecca, There's no doubt about it. But the one condition you have to meet to get into Mecca is that you have to be "Muslim". But we know from Guru Nanak's statement "There is no hindu, no Musalman" that he was not a muslim.

In this day and age you risk ya head being chopped of if you try and get in.

So how did he get it. In his time, there would have been no hesitation, his head would have come off in an instant...

so I ask "Did he lie, in order to get in?"


1) Guru Nanak and subsequent Satgurus used a number of tests to test the worth of their successor, as he/she would be carrying the divine light and be the mouth of God. Thus Satguru used this test and other tests to see if the successor was fully submitting to the will of guru. Submission was being tested as was love.

2) Satguru Nanak could go anywhere he pleased. He was sent by god and the voice of God. Getting into Mecca was the least of his problems. Darbar Sahib sri Amritsar, can purify even the greatest sinner with the continuous banee and serenity. But that brings up another point: Why aren't the non believers allowed into Mecca? Is it because even the touch of "infidels" will make it impure?

As for Sikhs using muslim terms like Shaheed: ummm, I don't think you guys have the trademark/copyright on language. By that logic, why do muslims speak english now: it is a Christian language. How dare you steal from the Christians!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow... thas a one crazy post.... I don't know if I have the authority to answer this but this is what I believe...

The other three religions that are constantly mentioned again and again have broken off from each other.

Hinduism was quite a seperate religion and thrived in India.

Before Judaism, there was Paganism which is actually quite similar to hinduism, in that there are more than one God that is worshipped and nature has different facets and so forth... now these people were persecuted by the jews, christians as witches and pretty much destroyed them, Pagans did not believe in adam and eve as the first ppl.. therefore, judaism, christians and muslims have somewhat conflicting information... but anyways, point is is that all three religions broke off from each other and continued to evolve it in some form.... funny thing is now, is if you look at all three religions that have supposedly started out from one another, all three don't get along with each other. The christians believe that Christ was killed due to the jews, the muslims believe that their religion is superior to that of the christians... so are we to put faith in three religions that continue to curse and fight amongst each other for no real reason....

Also, our Guru Ji's have told us that everything was created by God, just like the others believe... now if they don't mention specifics of who was first and what history man went through, it means that their irrelevant...

What is that information going to give us... it won't lead us to enlightenment, instead, it'll prolly derail us from the true path...we'd get caught up with unnecessary stuff... Sikhism is a way of life, not the history of life... everything that the GuruJi's told us is how to live a life of good person, to be compassionate, to be honourable and truthful... and to always remember the Almighty....

Now... about the nails thing... that's pretty simple.. it's all about hygiene... Our hair we can wash and maintain it clean, but would u be able to keep your nails clean? thats pretty hard if ask me, plus if one was to grow it out, you wouldn't be able to live a ghrasti life, which is the biggest emphasis our GuruJi's have it's all common sense, also if one wanted to go back to the other three religions, how come their prophets kept their hair long??? something to think about....

The questions seem to come from some person who desperately wants to make sikhism look incomplete, however, it's emphasis as a religion is completely different to that of the other religions...and therefore there can be no comparisons at all....

Also those are three religions that mention those roots, what about Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism as well as the native american culture... Everything else doesn't talk about that particular piece of history... It has to do with where the religions started and what were the influences around them... as you can see, there are more religions that refute that history then there are that support it...

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 5 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

1.Truth is, sikhi cant be a religion from God can it.

God didnt seem fit to bestow a sikh homeland to the sikhs in the time of the guru's never mind now...and still you aint got one..

2. Dont say "Oh we dont need one...every singh is always talking about khalistan"

3. Why does sikhi like stealing words from Islam?

eg Martyr "Shaheed", the Muslim Martyr

4. Why does sikhi allow it for a sikh man to sleep with his brothers wife???


Got a lot of time on your hands I see.

1) Sikhs had a homeland and they lost it by turning their backs on the teachings of the gurus. We will get it back. In fact, we are the most influential communities in the world. We even have a Sikh running provincial govts. in Canada. As for the Muslims: god must hate you by your own logic. They are getting smoked in Chechnya, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Indonesia, China. Geez, whereever you go, you get beaten on. Maybe its a Sign!

2) Sikhs can't sleep with anyone but their wives. It is one of the four cardinal sins to have premarital or extra marital sex. YOu are so desperate: making up lies to make Gurmat look bad??

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 6 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

1. Sikhi has achieved nothing. It couldnt even get a homeland, but worse still, all sikhs love the Harmandir Sahib [Golden Temple], yet they seem to forget tha land this was built on was donated by the Mughal Emperor Akbar!!!

Is sikhi a charity?

2. The whole idea of having a temple covered in Gold shows that sikhi is a relogion after the luxuries of this life.


Oh oh, my idiot alarm is going off! It must be more stupid questions!

1) Sikhs love darbar Sahib because it has the name of god recited at all times. It is open to all and it is the embodiment of divine qualities: humility, respect and love.

Maharaja Ranjeet Singh coated darbar Sahib in gold. NOt the Sikhs. Ranjeet Singh didn't understand the principles of gurmat so he did this. We don't care about the gold: we just love the banee recited there at all hours and the love that it gives out.

also, it is recorded in history that Satguroo Raam Daas obtained the land for Amritsar from Akbar in 1577 for Rs.700 which was payed to the Zamindar of Tung.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 7 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

1. One thing I would like to see is a proper Nigerian kala-sha, with a pagg on and saying " ...sikhi is right"

"no hai bi sach..."


My best friend at Uni (A muslim from Kenya) tells me often about the black Sikhs in Kenya - not Nigerian but close enough!!!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 8a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

But puttar, even guru gobind singh said "say not that the Quran is wrong, wrong is he who doesnt reflect on them"

So u dont even know about sikhi, u r just dumb.


Bapoo jee, please give me the line and page reference in which Guru Gobind Singh said this. Also include the gurmukhi version. You can't because it dosn't exist. Satguru did however say "raam, raheem puraan koraan, anyk kahai mat eyk naa manyo" clearly showing that Satguru placed no faith in the koran or the hindu scriptures. See bapoo jee, I have again logically refuted your point but you still have yet to refute my posts.

QUESTION 8b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"Say not that the Vedas and Muslim books are false. False is he, who reflects not on them." (Bhagat Kabir, Parbhati, pg. 1350)


Thank you. As you can see that quote was never by Guru Gobind Singh. Bhagat Kabeer jee in this line does not say "quran" he say books of the semetic religions. In gurmat, we have love for all people. There is most certainly truth in all religions as Satguru has told us. But, satguru jee tells us that other religions are sttuck in false rituals and falsehood in general. Although the other scriptures do contain truth, Guru Gobind Singh says "Bayd katayb na bhayd lahiyo tih, sidh samaadh kar haaray" The vedas and the semetic books have failed to explain God's secrets. Siddhaas have failed to attin him through meditiaion. pg 713. Satgur also says "Saray hee days ko daykh rahiyo mat kouoo na daykhiat praan pati kay. "I have examine the religions ofa various countries but not of them preaches true devout to god: the lord of life." pg 13.

QUESTION 8c (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

The book of the Muslims is the Quran


That's not my point. My point is that if you look at the original in gurmukhi it does not say "muslim books" it says books of the semetic religions. This includes Torah, Bible and Koran. My point remains the same however, the Koran does certainly contain some good things to learn.

QUESTION 8d (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

ok, so the semetic books are "not false". Hows that. Ie Torah, Bible, Quran So you have been contradicting sikhi, by saying the Quran is flawed.

Then why do the mass majority of sikhs hate muslims?


You are speaking from an English perspective. In England, there are huge tensions between the Sikhs and Muslims. Go anywhere else and you won't see that. However, I certainly do see why some Sikhs might begin to hate Muslims. Just look at this board: it is a Sikh board for Sikhs to discuss and learn but it was hijacked by Muslims who are trying to proselytize by preaching lies about Gurmat. Outright lies! When a Sikh says something in return, it is considered hate? Quite frankly, I have said it before and I'll say it again, I have nothing against muslims or Islam. I have something against people that attack Gurmat. I am trying to live my life as best a Sikh as I can and I expect that others should follow their own religion. I know that Gurmat is the only religion however, that is based totaly on love of God and not the bribery or laalach of heaven/paradise.

QUESTION 8e (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Oh so sikhs hate muslims because of me.

I see. Even though 99.9% of sikhs in England dont even know this web page exists.


Please don't be dense. I said stuff like what you are doing, not particularly you though.

The entire salok that is being quoted is as follows: "Bayd katayb kaho mat jhootay, jhoota jo na bichaarai. jo sabh mai eayk khudai kahit ho, to kio murgee maarai." meaning, the Semitic and Hindu scriptures aren't false, false is he who does not reflect on them. If they say that there is god is in all (eveyrwhere), then why do you kill a chicken? This salok is not an unconditional approval of the Semitic scriptures and vedas, it is just saying that in this point of killing creatures of God, if the Vedas say God is in all and Semitic Scriptures also say God is a witness to all, how can you commit such a heinous crime?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 9a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Why do you wash your gianni's feet [or past guru's] and drink the water. How does this show you love God?

It probably just gives Mr Gianni Sahib an ego boost.


See, now you are just getting desperate. I have never ever seen anyone wash a gianees feet and drink it. Never. It is not a custom in gurmat. You have sunk so low. Resorting to outright lies. What a great muslim you are! I'm sure Muhammed would be proud.

QUESTION 9b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Man you need to wake up.

My sikh friend told me his mum and dad went to see some Gianni who came from India to Southall/Uxbridge. This guy turns up every year.

They brought him some water from his washed feet to drink, and he felt disgusted, and spilt it when they werent looking


Either you are rather stupid or, more likely you are doing it on purpose: those people who ask for there feet-water to be drunk are not Sikhs nor are the people who drink it - i hope that was clear enough for someone of your level of understanding to comprehend.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 10 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Lets say some sikhs are completely bald. No hair on their head, just a few streaks here and there.

Would you still tell him to wear a pag? The Kesh is not existent for this guy.

So God has made him lacking in one of the 5 K's of sikhi, and he hasnt even got a say in it.

How can he be a fully practising sikh with a deficient "K". Shall we tell him to call himself the sikh with only 4 K's?

Oh, but wait... No hair to comb, so now we'll have to get rid of the Kanga too.

So now he becomes the sikh on the 3 K's of sikhi.


Another rather dumb question. If someone has lost all their hair (which is rare) the dastaar still stands as a sign of the commitment to gurmat and Sikhee. I believe keskee to be a kakaar so your point on a kakaar being missing is not really relevant. At any rate, kesh refers to all the hair on the body and unlike muslims, we sikhs don't shave ourselves. The kangha is still kept and a bald man can still comb his beard and the kangha still is a reminder of the commitment to gurmat and guru. You have no points left about gurmat. I have over 100 articles left on Islam that I don't want to post because I don't want to cause you unneccessary hurt. I ask you to leave this forum as you have nothing to contribute anymore. I close with a quote from the quran that I think might fit in this situation.

l-Qur’aan (109:1-6) “Say (O Muhammad )to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "I worship not that which you worship, "Nor will you worship that which I worship. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping. "Nor will you worship that which I worship "To you be your religion, and to me my religion

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 11 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"O Mullah, why do you ascend the minaret of the mosque for loud announcement? The Lord is not deaf. He for Whom you make loud announcements, see Him within your heart." (Bhagat Kabir, Salok, pg. 1374)

This shows the level of ignorance sikhi has with respect to Islaam, as the call to prayer from the minaret is for the Muslims, to come and pray, and to know when the prayer is going to commence, not to let the Almighty know.


This is perhaps the best post you have done to challenge gurmat. I commend you. Alas, you again fail. Bhagat Kabeer jee was very familiar with muslim traditions and it is said was born in a Muslim family and thus wouldn't be confused about what the baang is for. The group of saLOKS THIS SALOK IS TAKEN FROM REPEATEDLTY SAY THAT OUTTER RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCERS ARE OF NO USE IF THERE IS NO LOVE BEHIND THE ACTION. The translation given by Dr. Sahib Singh (a hindu convert by the way) who was the most rerspected translator of SGGS is that "oh mulla, you are getting no benifit from going on top of the minaret of the mosque! that god, for whom you call the people to nimaaz can be found in your heart. If you have no peace in your heart and you are just calling the people, the know that god is not deaf (to whom you can shout praise but cheat quietly) and he knows what is in your heart.

Sorry, it seems kabeer jee is attacking blind rituals and shows and not confused about the purpose of the baang.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sat Sri Akal:

You know, I actually started answering these questions...then it struck me. Why should Sikhism have to prove anything? The Guru Granth Sahib was directly dictated to the Guru's chosen Sikh. After dictation, it was edited by the Guru himself. The Guru Granth Sahib itself contains quotes from the Gurus stating that they spoke directly to the Almighty itself, not any middle-man angel. The focus of the Guru Granth Sahib is clear and focused...complete surrender and worship of the Almighty.

Instead of comparing the Guru Granth Sahib to the standards of the Sister Religion Texts, perhaps we should compare their texts against the Guru Granth Sahib and see if it can live up to the standards of the Guru Sahib? :twisted:

The Guru Granth Sahib is not a history book. It is the words of the Almighty DIRECTLY transmitted to the Gurus with no middle man. It's focus in on telling a soul how to merge with the Almighty and attain salvation, not a historical text showing lineages and histories of a people. The Guru Granth Sahib speaks clearly its message through poetry and devotional verses. The Semetic texts tell Aesop fables, and through them, try to convey moral and societal code of law.

No comparison.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 12a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Musalman prayer are the same..." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustat, pg. 275)

How can The remple and Mosque be the same. The temple has one or several idols placed in it. The hindu's enter and prostrate to a stone statue, which could not help itself if I were to take a pick-axe and smash it open.

The Mosques is free from and forms of Idolatry, evemn pictures of persons.

Hinduism is without doubt polytheistic. Islam is without doubt monotheistic.


The point is that the worship of god is common in both places. You are so blinded by your hatred of gurmat that you can't even see the point being made: there is no species called a Muslim or a Hindu: we're all human and should love each other as brothers.

QUESTION 12b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Then there is no species called sikhs too right???... ha ha ha you fool!


Of course!!!! Of course there is no species called 'Sikh' - it's one of the first things you learn as a Sikh - treat all equally - whether someons a muslim or whatever - get it???

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 13 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"Yet holding the knife, the world they butcher. Wearing blue the rulers approval they seek; With money derived from mlechhas the Puranas they worship. Goats slaughtered over the unapproved Muslims texts they eat." (Guru Nanak, Raga Asa, pg. 472)

So how about Gobind Rai, when he slaughtered the 5 goats when choosing the panj pyaareh? Was he an opposer to this?

Don't try and pull a sly one and crawl out of this one, by saying " Oh no... this is not what realy happened.... it only looked like it"

When he entered the tent with each man, peolel heard the sound of a sword slicing through flesh, and when emerged each time from the tent his sword was drenched in blood. Some people saw this and ran off, then the next man stepped up...

This is what is written in the many texts written by sikhs and published in the west, and this is what is told when sikhs tell people about sikhi on tv etc...

If you think they are liars. Speak out to every Gurdwara in the west, and tell them to stop being liars.


I have said before and I'll do so again, no one knows what happened in the tent that day. However a muslim writer has said that the bodies and heads of the pyaare were interchanged when they came out. The goat story can only be found in modern history starting from Cunningham and further. Satguru did not kill goats. And most importantly, he didn't do it as a ritual to satisfy god. Thats the big difference.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 14 (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Remember next time you are reciting this verse, that it was written by a Muslim [sheikh Fareed].

Yet more proof that sikhi is a religion set up by men, with a book written by men

"The Supreme Lord God dwelled in his heart, and he was counted among the devotees. || 3 || Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship. The Lord of the Universe met him personally; Dhanna was so very blessed. || 4 || 2 || O my consciousness, why don't you remain conscious of the Merciful Lord? How can you recognize any other? You may run around the whole universe, but that alone happens which the Creator Lord does. || 1 || Pause || In the water of the mother's womb, He fashioned the body with ten gates. He gives it sustenance, and preserves it in fire - such is my Lord and Master. || 1 || The mother turtle is in the water, and her babies are out of the water. She has no wings to protect them, and no mik to feed them. The Perfect Lord, the embodiment of supreme bliss, the Fascinating Lord takes care of them. See this, and understand it in your mind || 2 || The worm lies hidden under the stone - there is no way for him to escape. Says Dhanna, the Perfect Lord takes care of him. Fear not, O my soul."


This is from Bhagat Dhanna jee, not Fareed.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 15a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"Say not that the Vedas and MUSLIM BOOKS are false. FALSE is he, who reflects not on them." (Bhagat Kabir, Parbhati, pg. 1350)

So false are you for your writtings Mr Sikh.

Also there is no doubt that the guru's admitted that Muhammad [pbuh] was a PROPHET. So this is how you talk about past Prophets is it. Hmmmmmmm showing the true colours of sikhi now are we...


Oh my misguided and desperate muslim brother! I have never said the quran doesn't contain some good stuff. It does. This quote from banee says "kateb" which refers to the books of the semetic religions. They are certainly not false in all they say. It would be senseless to call them totally wrong. But they are also highly inaccurate in other parts. This is my point. SGGS is just saying that these works can teach stuff and not to simply dismiss them. Good advice I'd say. But they are nothing compared to SGGS.

QUESTION 15b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

nothing compared to a book [guru granth sahib] which was written by muslims and hindu MEN!.. are you having a laugh mate. You admit that muslim men and hindu men wrote in your book and you admit IT IS POETRY, and you still say " it is from God!".. what drugs are you one mate??? Shaheedi Degh maybe?

PS the word Shaheed was stolen from the islamic term for martyr [shaheed]


Dear hate mongerer,

SGGS is a shabad guru that leads an individual to find god within and merge with the divine. It includes the word of god spoken by those people who were one with god. Or it contains work that will be benifical in one's spiritual journey. As for stealing words: did you know that the languages Arabic, English, Sanskrit etc have the same root? Each developed from the same source and hence there can be no stealing. And lets say Shaaheed is an Arabic what? Does that make it wrong to use by non arabs? You are such a bigot!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 16a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

"The clay of a muslim (in the grave after death) falls into the potters wheel. From it vessels are fashioned and bricks made and it cries out as it burns. The poor clay burns, burns and weeps and the fiery coals continually fall from it. Nanak, God, the Creator who made the world, alone knows whether it is better to burn or bury." (Guru Nanak, pg.466)

Lets study the last line...

"Nanak, God, the Creator who made the world, alone knows whether it is better to burn or bury."

1. Here we have Nanak calling himself God.

2. Here guru nanak admits that he doesnt know which is better to burn or to bury the dead. If he was in contact with God [receiving revelation] God would have informed nanak which is the way that God wants the dead to be buried. Surely, if he was sent by God, the Almighty wouldnt leave somethinbg that happens to everyone [death] for the people to ponder over which is right or which is wrong. Islam show that this is the natural way to treat the deceased. To bury it. If you burn the body, the soul feels the pains as if you were buring the body when it was alive.

When buried the body is at the Will and Mercy of God to do with it as He pleases.

3. Have you ever smelt the pungent odour of flesh being burned? Probably not, since sikhs make use of crematoriums in the west. Try it. After smelling it you might not want to be burned.

4. So if we are to burn, then what of the animals? you burn them too? They are at the will of God to do with as he pleases.

5. I have never heard clay burn and cry, have you?

6. Strange how the Judaism, Chritianity and Islaam all show you must bury the dead, this is the way of God.

7. Even going back 1000's of years, we now that God's will was to tell people to bury their dead. Each nation was sent a Prophet, and Muhammad [pbuh] is the Seal of the Prophets. Each Prophet commanded his people to bury as God willed. This is why archeologists find tombs and graves of people 1000's of years old, from different past civilisations all over the world.


Again, I really commend you for trying to poke holes in the word of God to attemp to prove it wrong. Trying to do what has already been done to the koran right? Well, again you have failed. And may I add your translation is so totally horrendous as is your understanding of this salok. This salok is from aasaa dee vaar which is a composition meant to show the futility in rituals and encourage true faith in Akaal. This salok describes how when a muslim dies, his body is buried for Judgement day. Guru Nanak says look what happens to the body that you think is going to come up again for judgement day: it comes into the hands of a potter who puts it in fire (which by the way is the total contrast to burial, and also considered unholy by the muslims). Because you are so filled with hatred, you can't see the irony in that image. The clay then cries out (this can be seen as a literary device saying that the body of the muslim cries out in frustration and revulsion at its fate and it can also be taken as literal as when a pot is made, the clay does hiss and pop as the water is heated out of the clay. Finally tghe last line says, "Oh Nanak, that creator who made the universe, only he knows the truth or wjhat shall be" Nowhere in the last line is there any mention of cremation or burial nor does Satgur Nanak ask any question in this salok. In fact, Satguru Nanak didn't even compose this, it is "Dhur kee banee" or directly from god and spoken by the Satguru. Sorry my Muslim brother, you failed again. This salok is just saying that one never knows what will happen to the body. Contrary to your belief, in gurmat, we don't care how the body is disposed. It is by convention that we cremate. But just look at burial: look at how much land is taken up by graveyards. IN punjab, land is at a premium and cremation makes more sense and hence it was and still is used. People come to the West and continue the tradition. It dosn't matter though. Once the soul has left, there is nothing left but dirt.

QUESTION 16b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

You admit that the guru granth sahib is poetry, from your saying:

"Try to learn to read poetry before u start to criticise it" (question posed earlier by another sikh on the same discussion board)

here we have a clear case of admittal that the ggs is poetry and not a book from God. why? because the revelation of God is not poetry [poetry is a man made form of literature]

This is what the pagans claimed the Quran was, as it was being revealed, so God sent down verses to correct them:

"And We have not taught him (Muhammad SAW) poetry..." Ya-Sin - 36:69


SGGS is in the form of poetry because it is known that music is something that calms the mind and can penetrate the soul. The muslims have no concept of this and ban music. I was reading in the Toronto Star a few months ago how the muslim students who have to take music class due to the curriculum perform with the school band by clapping and snapping their fingers!

QUESTION 16c (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

snapping and clapping fingers is not from Islam.


Then it seems the muslims of Toronto are terribly mistaken!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 17a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

You said:

"It is by convention that we cremate. But just look at burial: look at how much land is taken up by graveyards. IN punjab, land is at a premium and cremation makes more sense and hence it was and still is used." skate nee banneeda.... dont you respect your deceased enough to cough up some money for them?

2. Glad you admit your problem lies in punjab. Didn't you realise that the earth is vast and huge.... oh sorry forgot.. sikhi hasnt really got past the borders of punjab yet has it...


My word! You are the most hate filled and unreasonable person I have ever dealt with! I have said that Sikhs are allowed to dispose of bodies in any way they see fit as the corpse is nothing but dirt, you on the other hand somehow warped my statment into a point to show that Gurmat is limited. Do you have no sense of logic? What is more limited to geography: the option to dispose of a body in the best suitable manner or strict insistance on burial so the body can rise up again for judgement day? Do you not know that nothing is left of the body in time? It turns to dirt! Without the soul, the body is nothing.

QUESTION 17b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Bodies reduces to Dust-

"Ra'd - 13:5 And if you (O Muhammad SAW) wonder (at these polytheists who deny your message of Islâmic Monotheism and have taken besides Allâh others for worship who can neither harm nor benefit), then wondrous is their saying: "When we are DUST, shall we indeed then be (raised) in a new creation?" [i.e. The Day of Resurrection] They are those who disbelieve in their Lord! They are those who will have iron chains tying their hands to their necks. They will be dwellers of the Fire to abide therein."

Al-Kahf - 18:37 "His companion said to him, during the talk with him: "Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you out of dust (i.e. your father Adam), then out of Nutfah (mixed semen drops of male and female discharge), then fashioned you into a man?"


If you choose to believe the dust of your dead will again be brought to life, so be it. That's the wonder of faith I suppose. But don't call it scientific nor in all honesty, even sensible!

QUESTION 17c (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Ok sikhi and science:

Show me in science any text book which says you will die then be brought back as another man, or as a butterfly that will fly up, up in the sky...


Ok muslim science, show me a text book that says that you'll go to a paradise with liqour and young boys and virgins that never get pregnant? I said religion is about faith but some things are just too nuts for me to believe. But that's just me.

QUESTION 17d (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

so does sikhi deny paradise [heaven]? and hell?


Nope. But we do deny that it is where a sould should aim to go. I personally don't believe that there are sex favours in heaven either. In gurmat we want to merge with Akaal purakh. Not get earthly delights. Just love god and become "one".

The Muslims on this board have proven themselves to be bigots and totally blinded to truth and love. Islam has made you so spiteful and harsh? I think you should ask yourselves if this is what Islam has to teach. I don't think so.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 18a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Earlier you denied that the guru's/gianni's feet would be washed and the water drunk by sikhs...

The term used in sikhi for it is:



Charan Amrit was used by the first 9 Satgurus to initiate Sikhs. The feet weren't washed, a toe was dipped in the water. This is a sign of complete submission before the Satguru. After Satguru Tegh Bahadur, Satguru Gobind Singh used Khanday kee Pahol. No one does Charan Amrit anymore. Not any Sikhs anyways

QUESTION 18b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Look I'm being totally honest with you, I'm not lying. My sikh friend was told to drink some by his parents... every year he gets pestered to drink it when this gianni from India comes to the UK.


My mother worked in a company owned by Ismailis. They went nuts when Aga Khan came to Toronto. They worshipped the couch he sat on and no one could sit on it but him etc. The got him special food and he's allowed to drink. This is just certain muslims, but you don't see me extending it on to the whole community. Same with your friends family. It is not a part of gurmat to do this.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION 19a (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

Why is Sikhi the best religion?

1. It is true guidance because only TRUE guidance can tell a man how to live his/her life perfectly in every sphere of life. True guidance tells a person the best way to live ones life.

2. Sikhi dosen't just say ' be good to everybody' it also has a complete code of law. Our law is superior to the man made law of the west because it is fair and just. If someone steals from us we forgive them. If someone kills my brother or sister i forgive them - what can be more superior than that?

3. Sikhi also covers areas such as politics, education, business transactions etc etc.

4. Sikhi has not 'stolen' ideas or concepts from Sufis/moslems/hindus - it has only 'borrowed' certain bits.

5. sikhism is meant for the whole of humanity not just the punjab - but knowledge can only be safely contained within the punjab.

6. since the founding of sikhi and its ethos - there has been much peace in the world - despite all the mystical aspects Sikhi has had a massive practical impact on the earth - ensuring peace on earth for long periods of time and being the cohesive factor in the 'brotherhood of man'.

6. If sikhi were not sent from God then man - i'd hate to think what this world would look like - Sikhi has had a profound and beneficial impact - it is from the truth.

7. Guru Nanak and the other Gurus have made more of an impact on this earth than nay other man/men, because they carried the light of truth with them. In the face of the gurus all other men in comnparison must be telling lies.

It is clear from this post that Sikhi is the correct religion to follow - and i'm certain that people of other religions wil stop attacking sikhi once they realise its comprehensiveness and totality when it comes to dealing with the human beings and their short lives on this earth.

P.S if i don't reach the highest state after death i hope to come back as a butterfly - if not then the queens corgi - man look at the treatment they get! - even better than most human beings!!!!


I spoke too soon about not attacking gurmat. Clever guise though.

1) I agree with point one.

2) Incorrect statement. Gurmat has a system of punishment for wrongdoings. These punishments are codified in tankhanamas and rehitnamas. In gurmat, we believe in correcting an offender if possible and if there is a person that is a threat, gurmat has no problem in killing that person just like we would kill a rabid dog.

3) agreed.

4. We didn't borrow or steal. Gurmat is truth. I said it before, the truth spoken by anyone is still the truth, even a murderer can speak truth and it won't turn into a lie. Gurmat was recieved from Akaal and what was received was only truth.

5. Gurmat was preached by Guru Nanak from Turkey to China. The message is universal even though us stupid Sikhs havn't been preaching it. It is much more universal than anyother religion like Islam which is generally concerned with desert life.

Satguru Nanak never claimed to have a monopoly on the truth. Gurmat dosn't claim to have a monopoly on God. We are told just to live as humans. There is no species called Muslim or Sikh or Hindu. We're human. We should recognise god within each other and love akaal. this is the message of gurmat.

As for reincarnation: makes more sense to me than a heaven filled with liqour, virgins and young boys to pleasure the inhabitants. What a great place: finally we'll get to stop worshipping god and forget his existance just to be worshipped by god ourselves. We'll get realy relaxation there huh? No more nimaaz or anything! Quite frankly, Gurmat thought finds such a place worse than any firey hell as forgetting god and getting lost in worldly pleasures is a true Inferno.

QUESTION 19b (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

1.Guru preached from China to Turkey? O.K mate - you show me a chinese guy with a pag on his head. now i'm certainly convince Guru was the truth - the only people that managed to listen to him was his own clan, and if you can't convince them you ain't gonna convince anybody.

2. Guru still couldn't get the hindus off worshipping cows and monkeys and stone penises. Interestingly enough hindus think of Sikhi as an off shoot of hinduism. The message of sikhi has certainly sunk in.

3. You say no one has a monopoly on the truth, that dosn't mean u take advice from any old chappie.

4. U say Islam is concerned with desert life? Your'e more ignorant than i thought. Perhaps you should read the works of eminent western historians like Gibbon or Watt and the realise that the culture known as sikhi has actually failed on the world stage.

5. How can it be that God sent ten gurus to reveal the truth and the impact has only been in Jallander/Chandigar etc. C'mon don't be daft, having ten cracks at the whip and still struggling to find your feet is a bit lame, (and ur trying to convince me its from God?)


There are a lot of oriental Sikhs. I can put you in touch with some if you so desire. I said that we Sikhs havn't preached the religion so that's why there aren't so many converts. As for Sikhi having failed humanity: so many historians and philosophers have called Gurmat the religion of the new millenium even Toynbee recognised that Gurmat was the ultimate path. As for Islam, you genius muslims still have to answer my posts on the Koran and Muhammed. I answer any and all questions on gurmat, you guys don't answer anything on your religion. I take it you admit it is flawed then? And please also note that I respect muslims when they are respectful Gurmat. I said nothing against Islam when no one spoke against Gurmat. When a Muslim criticised a swearing Sikh, I supported him/her. I only attack Islam and Muslims when they attack gurmat first.

QUESTION 19c (Why Sikhism is Wrong):

I acknowledge your sincerity, but you must still concede to the fact that sikhi was formed around a series of historical events that shaped its outcome. Although initially started as a form of appeasement between hindus and muslims, thru persecution evolved into a culture and way of life. The efforts of ten gurus on the face of this earth have failed to make an impact when compared to other men who have been on this earth. your only line of defence seems to be 'live and let live and be good' - if you recall back to the philosophy of the west in the 60's and 70's most of the people back then will probably reach Nirvana. this is a common attitude of people who are not serious about knowing their destiny and live in blissful ignorance - be good, be good. Of course EVERY religion requires that we be GOOD. But which is the right one? Revelation is given to those that are capable of carrying its burdens - not to fools.

Sikh claim that Guru Nanak and the other Gurus were fit to recieve revelation more than others leaves a lot of questions unanswered. The only way u answer them .... 'be good'!!

Like i said - i acknowledge your good intentions but put your ego to one side and submit to the truth. We can be 'nice' to each other all day long - but its more important to get to the truth even if a few toes are trodden on.

E.g to a hindu worshipping a monkey/statue or eating out of the same plate as a rat - well - if he's educated - i'll tell him straight - I'Ve no respect for you.


People, especially Muslims, have a misconception that all gurmat says is be nice. This is not the case. Yes, the basis of gurmat is to recognise akaal in all and love each and every living thing. But we also have rules and so much else to our religion. I'm rather sick of repeating all my points about gurmat so please just read my old posts.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites


Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

It does not matter what religion you are. It does not matter who you claim to be your god. It does not matter who you proclaim discovered your faith. And it does not matter if your a disciple of god.

It only matters if you love the truth enough to willingly accept all paths; to willingly accept all acts of god; to willingly accept what god has given to you; to willingly accept that the truth and love that you may hide within you, is the same truth and love that god bestowed on his disciples that walked the earth; the same disciple that claimed "cast has no barrier in the eyes of god"; the same disciple that looked a prostitute in the eyes, and claimed "god loves you too"; the same disciple who professed to people the duties of worshipping god 5 times a day; and the same disciple who taught a man the way of life before he could defend his religion over his own flesh and blood.

Truth, Love and Compassion, the essence of life. Truth breed knowledge. Knowledge properly harvested bring Love. Love shows compassion and understanding. To me, the air is cleared. It makes brilliant sense when they say..."Ek Onkar, Satnam..." Yes. One God indeed. Truth.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


Excellent comments to an ignorant Muslim's rantings. It is surprising how they take the things that clearly prove that their religion is false, ie Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark etc.. and then claim that Sikhi is wrong because it doesn't mention them !. Clearly this Muslim is a very sad and brain washed individual.

Unfortunately Sikhs today have become so emasculated by our scholars constant harping on about respecting all faiths. The Gurus criticised what they thought was wrong, they did not hold back because it would hurt someone's feelings. The truth is the Truth, simple as that. The Muslim strategy is that attack is the best means of defence. They know that their religion cannot stand the test of rational argument, so they instruct their brainwashed followers to attack other religions with carefully selected questions. This they do because they fear that one day their brainwashed followers will start to think for themselves and know that what they thought was the truth is in fact false. Science has proven that there is no such thing as Adam and Eve.. so it follows that either the Koran is false or that the person who wrote the Koran was telling a falsehood.



Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0