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paapiman

Sri Charitropakhyan Sahib jee Series - Charitar #3

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On 28/01/2016 at 2:13 PM, paapiman said:

Does anyone know what the word ਚਛੁ means

Eyes

On 29/01/2016 at 3:30 PM, paapiman said:

In this Charitar, the name of the lady is ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਚਛੁਮਤੀ. Any ideas on what it could mean?

Doe-eyed, or eyes like a deers.

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This is the third Charitar and the first 2 give the introduction to the Granth that is known as "Sri CharitarPakhyan Granth", meaning "explanations or shows of characters."

In the first 2 stories we have seen the old King being deceived by his young queen that the King's younger son has tried to rape her. The King without question throws him in jail and passes a death sentence on him.

The wise minister (atma) then attempts to show the King (mann) that he is being deceived. In story number 3 it states "that a young woman is captivated by a young man, whilst a old man is captivated by a young woman". This is the exact situation in hand. The young queen was captivated by the King's son, whilst captivating the King's heart herself. So as the wise minister explained in this story, the young woman just said some words that to her old lover to keep his infatuation with her brimming, whilst hiding the truth. The old man because of his infatuation with the young woman didn't question her motives and believed her.

 

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On 27/01/2016 at 5:30 PM, samurai said:

Theres actually only 404 in dasam granth, maharaj will reveal the one to complete 405....watch this space..lol

Somewhere along the line one is missing. 405 Charitar is Sri Benti Chaupai.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

In the first 2 stories we have seen the old King being deceived by his young queen that the King's younger son has tried to rape her. The King without question throws him in jail and passes a death sentence on him.

The wise minister (atma) then attempts to show the King (mann) that he is being deceived. In story number 3 it states "that a young woman is captivated by a young man, whilst a old man is captivated by a young woman". This is the exact situation in hand. The young queen was captivated by the King's son, whilst captivating the King's heart herself. So as the wise minister explained in this story, the young woman just said some words that to her old lover to keep his infatuation with her brimming, whilst hiding the truth. The old man because of his infatuation with the young woman didn't question her motives and believed her.

The above is the connection made to the initial story of the King and the Queen. Good one bro.

Question - Can all the Charitars be connected to the initial story?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

In story number 3 it states "that a young woman is captivated by a young man, whilst a old man is captivated by a young woman". 

 

ਹੋਤ ਤਰੁਨ ਕੇ ਤਰੁਨਿ ਬਸਿ ਬਿਰਧ ਤਰੁਨਿ ਬਸਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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Anthriv Arths

The Fat lover can possibly represent:

  • Poor Intellect (ਮੋਟੀ ਮਤ)
  • God (God is refereed to as ਮੋਟਾ in Gurbani)
  • Ego

The Lean lover can possibly represent:

  • Fine intellect (Sukham Budhi)
  • Weak intellect
  • Humility
  • Lust

The lady can possibly represent:

  • Soul-bride
  • Intellect (Budhi)
  • Mind (ਮਨ)
  • Duality
  • Consciousness

The father of the lady can possibly represent:

  • God
  • Soul
  • Innocence
  • Illiterate mind

 

Can anyone make any connections

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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I dont think there is an anthreev arth of the Charitro Pakhyan. The whole granth is katha of kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankaar with a great focus on kaam. Im very sceptic when people interpret it allegorically as soul vs. body, higher intellect versus carnal emotions etc etc.... seems quite appologetic.

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7 minutes ago, amardeep said:

I dont think there is an anthreev arth of the Charitro Pakhyan. The whole granth is katha of kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankaar with a great focus on kaam. Im very sceptic when people interpret it allegorically as soul vs. body, higher intellect versus carnal emotions etc etc.... seems quite appologetic.

Most likely brother, there are Antrhiv Arths. There is a reason as to why they are refereed to as Turiya or Budhi Charitars.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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2 hours ago, paapiman said:

Anthriv Arths

The Fat lover can possibly represent:

  • Poor Intellect (ਮੋਟੀ ਮਤ)
  • God (God is refereed to as ਮੋਟਾ in Gurbani)
  • Ego

- This Fat lover also represents animal instinct as Maharaaj states:

ਫੂਲਿ ਗਯੋ ਪਸੁ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਨਿਜੁ ਸੁਭ ਮਾਨੈ ਅੰਗ ॥

ਪਸੁ  - Means an animal

- He can also possibly represent someone who is a victim of Praises (Ustat).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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This Charitar also signifies how flattery (khusamad) can be used to cloud a person's decision making. The Fat lover fell victim to flattery of the woman, even though, evidence (in the form of semen) was present right in front of him.

Some important teachings from this Charitar:

  • Don't let flattery fog your decision making abilities
  • Beware of people, who excessively praise you or unduly praise you
  • Never ever indulge in flattery or utter any undue praises for any person. Praise can also be a form of sin in Gurmat

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Somewhere along the line one is missing. 405 Charitar is Sri Benti Chaupai.

 

 

yeh.. maharaj will reveal to complete the 405 charitras not to say it is thee 405th one..

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On 28/01/2016 at 6:54 PM, dalsingh101 said:

Women do that all the time which rich guys - of their own volition too

True. Does anyone remember that american case  a few years ago when a stripper aged around 25 married that tycoon aged 80?

He then gave her a part of his will which his family went mental over. Can't remember her name.

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1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

True. Does anyone remember that american case  a few years ago when a stripper aged around 25 married that tycoon aged 80?

He then gave her a part of his will which his family went mental over. Can't remember her name.

Anne Nicole Smith

 

anna-nicole-smith-j-howard-marshall.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

wow who says these charitars are not real, they are def very real in this world.

You are right brother. It is quite astonishing that people in this age (where sex education is taught to kids, porn is readily available, people roam around half-naked on streets, cheating spouses (most likely) and divorces are on a rise, etc) are questioning them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 1/28/2016 at 7:40 PM, Guest said:

dalsingh ji, You cant compare western morals, where idea of divorce etc and seeing marriage as 'temporary' are common. I highly doubt that back then in India, where marriage is seen as being for life, that a woman would lock herself into such a marriage willingly knowing it means she would never be able to remarry etc. Remember these stories are all retellings of older Hindu stories. In that tradition, women would have been expected to kill herself when her husband died. So why marry an older man who might die soon?? LOL You wont get any riches out of it. Those widows who did not kill themselves were forced into poverty and a lifetime of 'mourning' afterward. So it makes no sense to marry an older guy at all with so much (your very life) at stake.

I can't think of any of the charitars which depict males as the sluts and deceivers at all. In vast majority, the woman looks like a slut with no morals, and using deception to get someone into the sack, while the men are made out to be all gullible victims (yes because of their penises) but it doesn't change the fact that the tone is that the men are the victims and the women are the evil ones. That's the picture nearly ALL of them give. Unless you start to examine why like in this example... a young beautiful woman would even be with an old fat ugly grandpa to begin with, taking culture into account. She wouldnt unless she was put into that situation forcibly via arranged marriage (or as a prostitute) but we can rule out the prostitute thing because he acted in the story as if he had no idea of her being with other males. A man going to a prostitute would automatically expect it.

I want to see a charitar that shows the opposite... a man deceiving a woman and the woman being gullible. Or else my observation stands... its engineered to make women look the deceivers and immoral and sluts while it makes men look gullible... well looking gullible is not good but it's definitely NOT as bad as being seen as a slut and deceiver.

Sat (work)

 

I was just trying to show how the statement I quoted in my last post was entirely wrong, that's all. To me it just highlights the complete lack of worldly knowledge on part of the person who made it frankly. And I totally disagree with your cop out of cultural differences. 

 

I don't know what you are trying to get at myself. I'm not a white boy, so I don't have that  tendency to worship females, or be scared to apply fair criticism - like white boys are in their culture. I know from experience that some women can be great, I know that some women can be malicious, selfish and destructive too. I know some women can be seduced by power and status and looks, and some can resist. I've met and seen plenty of women who've cheated on their husbands at work. I've met plenty of men that cheat on their wives too. I know some men can be evil, heartless sexual predators, and I know some men are not, and are capable of acting nobly. 

 

Just because we have some tales that highlight a particular topic that isn't 100% pro-feminism - no need for people to get their panties in a twist. 

 

In the words of Ice Cube: If you weren't acting like a b1tch, I wouldn't call you a b1tch. 

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OK folks here it is. I have been looking at Bindras translations that are being used here on this forum. Whilst he has done an ok job in some places some of translations seem way out. I have gone through the 3rd Charitar (the first story) myself and translated as i see it.There are differences with bindras work and mine but these, I have to say have no impact of the meaning of the story. The end result is still the same, but Bindras work is confusing at times, so I hope this helps. As places where anyone feels I have gone wrong please correct.

 

Charitar number 3

 

Dohra

The King had his son placed in prison, at daybreak he recalled his son to his presence (1)

A discussion then started about the tale of villager’s daughter, who had a fat friend and a thin friend (2)

She had doe-like eyes and her form was unparalleled, high and low always paid her respects (3)

 

Chaupai:

She dwelled in the town of Kaalpi, and had a variety of enjoyments.

Her doe like eyes had such a light, that it made the moonlight feel ashamed (4)

 

Dohra:

The fat lover was old, the thin lover was young,

Day and night they would both enjoy her love (5)

A young female is captivated by a young male, whilst an old man is captivated by a young woman

This tradition is known by everyone throughout the whole world (6)

The young woman enjoyed being with the thin lover but never went to the fat one.

She always had regret in her mind if she had to do so. (7)

She was enjoying the company of the thin lover when the fat lover arrived

Footsteps were heard outside the gate of the young woman (8)

She told the thin lover, go and escape over the wall

Some sinner has come and will take us both prisoner (9)

They had enjoyed immense love and the thin lover left.

Worried, she got up quickly and stood for the fat lover (10)

Whilst getting up, semen fell on the ground, which was seen by the fat lover

You tell me immediately the secret behind this O Princess (11)

Your form is so handsome, on seeing it I couldn’t control myself

That is why the semen dropped from my body (12)

The animal blossomed, hearing this that his body is so desirable

On seeing me, semen dripped from this illustrious young woman (13)

Here the character ends.

 

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On 30/01/2016 at 9:44 PM, chatanga1 said:

. So as the wise minister explained in this story, the young woman just said some words that to her old lover to keep his infatuation with her brimming, whilst hiding the truth. The old man because of his infatuation with the young woman didn't question her motives and believed her.

 

On 27/03/2017 at 10:26 PM, chatanga1 said:

 

Whilst getting up, semen fell on the ground, which was seen by the fat lover

You tell me immediately the secret behind this O Princess (11)

Your form is so handsome, on seeing it I couldn’t control myself

That is why the semen dropped from my body (12)

The animal blossomed, hearing this that his body is so desirable

On seeing me, semen dripped from this illustrious young woman (13)

Here the character ends.

 

 

I wanted to add a little more to this.  The Creator has ordained that semen is only produced in the male human. The male in this story was so besotted with this woman that he totally forgot the "Hukum" of our Creator. The woman told him a lie that was against the Creators "vidhi" but because of his desire for her, he accepted her word over that of "Vidhata". So not only was the man's infatuation great, but so great to the point that he forgot his Dharam.

 

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4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I wanted to add a little more to this.  The Creator has ordained that semen is only produced in the male human. The male in this story was so besotted with this woman that he totally forgot the "Hukum" of our Creator. The woman told him a lie that was against the Creators "vidhi" but because of his desire for her, he accepted her word over that of "Vidhata". So not only was the man's infatuation great, but so great to the point that he forgot his Dharam.

The word used in Gurbani is "ਬੀਰਜ ". Are you sure this word only refers to semen in Punjabi/Hindi?

The following is the definition from Mahakosh (It does not specify that it is a male fluid)

 ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਸ਼ਰੀਰ ਦਾ ਸਾਰਰੂਪ ਧਾਤੁ. ਸ਼ੁਕ੍ਰ. ਮਣਿ. ਮਨੀ

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 02/10/2017 at 12:39 AM, paapiman said:

The word used in Gurbani is "ਬੀਰਜ ". Are you sure this word only refers to semen in Punjabi/Hindi?

The following is the definition from Mahakosh (It does not specify that it is a male fluid)

 ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਸ਼ਰੀਰ ਦਾ ਸਾਰਰੂਪ ਧਾਤੁ. ਸ਼ੁਕ੍ਰ. ਮਣਿ. ਮਨੀ

 

All these words mean semen bro.

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