SHASTAR PUJA

[gupy]

VJKK VJKF

Is shastar Namaskaar worshipping weapons. Doesn't Shastar Pooja have a great influence in terms of reading of Dasam Granth shabads (e.g. Shastar Maalaa). In just the same way you 'namaskaar' an elder or ustat. But by doing so you are not worshipping these people.

By showing RESPECT to Chandi or shastar or what/who ever, you are not worshipping them, and this is made very clear in the bani of both Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth Ji.

The respect of weapons (shaster) is very important to any Martial art. As for those who practise, plan to die with them.

So to conclude, I don't believe it is the intentions of the Akali Nihung Singh Khalsa to worship any Shastar in the place of Akaal. I personally Namaskaar my shastar, but I DO NOT see them as Akaal, as Akaal is only that which is eternal and Shastar are not. (Also is why Shastar is also laid before Guru Granth Sahib Ji in most Gurdwara.)

Gupy

[sukhsingh]

Chaupa SIngh Rahitnama says that a SIngh has to do shastar puja and should not take his shastar with him when doing his needs. yes shastar puja even just in the simple form of matha tek is part of rahit!

what u mean "when doing his needs". going to the washroom ?

[Guest Javanmard]

yes

[Guest Javanmard]

that is why one should havem thick kare. May I add to this that Samurai codes say exactly the same thing and that the samurai was encouraged to take a wooden sword with him to the washroom.

[sukhsingh]

lalleshvari,

plz post what page that rehatnaama is on (in bhai chapai singhs rehitnaama)

thz

[Guest Javanmard]

what edition?

[sukhsingh]

wouldnt his rehatnaama go agaisnt another rehitnaama by bhai desa singh?

it says

shasathreheen eih kabehoo(n) n hoee || rehithava(n)th khaalas hai soee ||

He who never abandons his weapon (Kirpaan). Recognise them as the disciplined and pure Khalsa.

[Guest Javanmard]

Well taking a wodden or blunt sword to the toilet would prevent such loss of rahit. Also what does it mean to abandon? Not having it in reach or not having it on our bodies?

[tableji]

shaster can be the mind aswell...ever thought about it like that??

[Guest]

how does one geta khanda in the mind.

[desi baba]

how does one geta khanda in the mind

lol cracking

[tableji]

erm....see shastar sposed to be a weapon rite...so say for example the battle is in the mind, are u gna use a kirpan to cut away ur manmat??U kno hack ur head off??

The brain is the most important shaster u can have, without it, u are nothing...u cud have the best and biggest kirpan in the world, bt yet if u aint got a brain...ur as gud as dead...

plus say for example ur doing shaster pooja, and away from that u do manmat, wot does that pooja mean to u??

guru is shaster, shaster can be the mind...the mind has to be doing gurmat...gurmat is the will of guru, so shaster pooja doesnt necessarly have to be done with a physical weapon

shaster pooja in gurmat = naam bani

[tableji]

how does one geta khanda in the mind.

khanda prithmai saaj kai, jin sab saisaar upaya

khanda meaning naam...energy

[Guest]

if no one knew i was being eva so sarcastic

[Serjinder Singh]

"Deh Siva bar mohe ihai.... Nischai kar apni jeet karon" is a very popular set of lines attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ji and form the last stanza of the composition "Chandi Charitar Ukat Bilas" that is one of the three similar compositions on the battles of Chandi or Durga with various demons. It is often said that Siva here represents Akal purkh, or some aspect of Akal Purkh or the feminine aspect of Akal Purkh.

All these are to stretch the imagination too far for the following reasons:

In the composition itself the word Siva refers not to Akal Purkh on any of its socalled aspects but to the wife of Siv or Shiv who lives on the mountain Kailash. Wife of Shiv or Siv is Devi in its various forms ie Durga, Parbati, Chandi, etc. Here in Chandi Charitar it is Chandi or Durga with the name Siva to emphasise her being wife of Shiv.

The evidence that Siva is indeed Devi Durga living with her husband Shiv at Mt Kailash comes from the occurance of this word in the text of this composition itself. Thus word "Siva" appears in stanza 19. The backgroud to this stanza is that the gods in heaven were defeated by the Mahishasur demon and large number of warriors in the army of gods were killed and thus frightened the gods head for the Mt Kailash to seek help from Siva the goddess. Thus,

Agnat mare gane ko bhaje ju sur kar tras

Enumerable number (of gods) were killed, who could count them, the gods ran in fear.

Dhar dhian man Siva ko takee puri Kailas (stanza 19, Chandi Charitar Ukat Bilas, Dasam Granth)

Concentrating on Siva in their mind (as the possible source of help) they headed for the abode on Kailash (of Shiv and his wife Shiva).

Thus in these lines Siva clearly refers to the Hindu godess living with her husband Shiv on Mt. Kailash.

Further,

in the thick of the battle Durga fights a close hand to hand battle with a mace in hand. Describing the scene another line refers to Durga as Siva. Thus,

Dhaay gada gah, phor ke fauj ko, ghaao Siva sir dait ke mario.

Dashing with the mace in hand, disrupting the army ranks, Siva hit the demon on the head.

Here, Siva clearly means Durga the Hindu goddess in battle and nothing to do with Akal Purkh who is formless (Nirgun) ie without any qualities or aspects. Saying that Siva is the feminine aspect of Akal Purkh is going against the very definition of Godhead in Mool Mantar wher He is Nirvair and does not have to fight anybody.

The fact of the matter is that all these ideas sneaked into Sikhism immediately after tenth Guruji because the legacy of the Shakat past of the Sikhs prior to baptism in 1699 did not disappear. For instance many writers such as Koer Singh, Rattan Singh Bhangoo, and even Bhai Daya Singh in his Rahitnama mention that Guru ji was blessed by Devi.

It is no wonder therefore, that Nihangs adopted the patently Shakat ideas as if these were approved by Guruji.

The problem has been that many Sikh scholars had rarely studied the secretive Shakat literature. It is only during the last century that the Shakat scriptures became easily available with the efforts of western scholars. Despite this the Shakat influence in Sikh psyche is so entrenched that it will take a long time to put it in perspective.

As far as Shastar Puja is concerned, in Shakat practices this is also known by the term Ayudh Puja, Ayudh here also means Shastar. Ayudh puja is done not for worshipping the weapons per se. But in Shakat practices and ideology, the metallic, especially iron weapons are another form of goddess Kali. Iron itself is worshipped as godess Kali by ironsmiths in India as well as by iron-ore miners. Any weapon that is made entirely from iron for instance Kharag or Khanda and has no wooden parts to pollute it with wood is of special reverence because it is all-iron or Sarabloh. Thus, an axe with wooden handle does not command much respect but Kharag, Khanda, Kirpan is revered as goddess. Iron is also known among Shakats as Asi. Hence Asipan another name for Kali is worshiped. Similarly, Durga has a Khanda atop her flag and hence Durga is Asiket or Sri Asiket (Sri for goddess) and this is the reason that Sikhs also began to use the Nishan Sahib with a Khanda or bhala on top.

Shastar Puja is a charachteristic practice of Rajputs who worship Durga and Kali. Two days before Dussehra Rajputs carry out Ayudh Puja or Shastar Puja where they worship weapons especially the swords of various kinds.

Hindus have three main sects viz, Vaishanavs the followers of Vishnu, Shaivs the followers of Shivji, and Shakats the followers of Devi or goddess in her various forms. Most of the artisans such as metal workers, ironsmiths, goldsmiths, stone masons, as also the Rajput warriors, bania traders are Shakat and worship Devi.

To try to justify the worship of Shakti in Sikhism is like saying that Guruji sanctioned the worship of Maya which also is the Shakati of Waheguru. And worshiping the weapons is worshiping material objects that are not Akal because these rust and are subject to Kaal and would disappear and cannot be Adi Sach, Jugadi Sach .... Hosi bhi Sach.

Humbly

Serjinder Singh

[Serjinder Singh]

"Deh Siva bar mohe ihai.... Nischai kar apni jeet karon" is a very popular set of lines attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ji and form the last stanza of the composition "Chandi Charitar Ukat Bilas" that is one of the three similar compositions on the battles of Chandi or Durga with various demons. It is often said that Siva here represents Akal purkh, or some aspect of Akal Purkh or the feminine aspect of Akal Purkh.

All these are to stretch the imagination too far for the following reasons:

In the composition itself the word Siva refers not to Akal Purkh on any of its socalled aspects but to the wife of Siv or Shiv who lives on the mountain Kailash. Wife of Shiv or Siv is Devi in its various forms ie Durga, Parbati, Chandi, etc. Here in Chandi Charitar it is Chandi or Durga with the name Siva to emphasise her being wife of Shiv.

The evidence that Siva is indeed Devi Durga living with her husband Shiv at Mt Kailash comes from the occurance of this word in the text of this composition itself. Thus word "Siva" appears in stanza 19. The backgroud to this stanza is that the gods in heaven were defeated by the Mahishasur demon and large number of warriors in the army of gods were killed and thus frightened the gods head for the Mt Kailash to seek help from Siva the goddess. Thus,

Agnat mare gane ko bhaje ju sur kar tras

Enumerable number (of gods) were killed, who could count them, the gods ran in fear.

Dhar dhian man Siva ko takee puri Kailas (stanza 19, Chandi Charitar Ukat Bilas, Dasam Granth)

Concentrating on Siva in their mind (as the possible source of help) they headed for the abode on Kailash (of Shiv and his wife Shiva).

Thus in these lines Siva clearly refers to the Hindu godess living with her husband Shiv on Mt. Kailash.

Further,

in the thick of the battle Durga fights a close hand to hand battle with a mace in hand. Describing the scene another line refers to Durga as Siva. Thus,

Dhaay gada gah, phor ke fauj ko, ghaao Siva sir dait ke mario.

Dashing with the mace in hand, disrupting the army ranks, Siva hit the demon on the head.

Here, Siva clearly means Durga the Hindu goddess in battle and nothing to do with Akal Purkh who is formless (Nirgun) ie without any qualities or aspects. Saying that Siva is the feminine aspect of Akal Purkh is going against the very definition of Godhead in Mool Mantar wher He is Nirvair and does not have to fight anybody.

The fact of the matter is that all these ideas sneaked into Sikhism immediately after tenth Guruji because the legacy of the Shakat past of the Sikhs prior to baptism in 1699 did not disappear. For instance many writers such as Koer Singh, Rattan Singh Bhangoo, and even Bhai Daya Singh in his Rahitnama mention that Guru ji was blessed by Devi.

It is no wonder therefore, that Nihangs adopted the patently Shakat ideas as if these were approved by Guruji.

The problem has been that many Sikh scholars had rarely studied the secretive Shakat literature. It is only during the last century that the Shakat scriptures became easily available with the efforts of western scholars. Despite this the Shakat influence in Sikh psyche is so entrenched that it will take a long time to put it in perspective.

As far as Shastar Puja is concerned, in Shakat practices this is also known by the term Ayudh Puja, Ayudh here also means Shastar. Ayudh puja is done not for worshipping the weapons per se. But in Shakat practices and ideology, the metallic, especially iron weapons are another form of goddess Kali. Iron itself is worshipped as godess Kali by ironsmiths in India as well as by iron-ore miners. Any weapon that is made entirely from iron for instance Kharag or Khanda and has no wooden parts to pollute it with wood is of special reverence because it is all-iron or Sarabloh. Thus, an axe with wooden handle does not command much respect but Kharag, Khanda, Kirpan is revered as goddess. Iron is also known among Shakats as Asi. Hence Asipan another name for Kali is worshiped. Similarly, Durga has a Khanda atop her flag and hence Durga is Asiket or Sri Asiket (Sri for goddess) and this is the reason that Sikhs also began to use the Nishan Sahib with a Khanda or bhala on top.

Shastar Puja is a charachteristic practice of Rajputs who worship Durga and Kali. Two days before Dussehra Rajputs carry out Ayudh Puja or Shastar Puja where they worship weapons especially the swords of various kinds.

Hindus have three main sects viz, Vaishanavs the followers of Vishnu, Shaivs the followers of Shivji, and Shakats the followers of Devi or goddess in her various forms. Most of the artisans such as metal workers, ironsmiths, goldsmiths, stone masons, as also the Rajput warriors, bania traders are Shakat and worship Devi.

To try to justify the worship of Shakti in Sikhism is like saying that Guruji sanctioned the worship of Maya which also is the Shakati of Waheguru. And worshiping the weapons is worshiping material objects that are not Akal because these rust and are subject to Kaal and would disappear and cannot be Adi Sach, Jugadi Sach .... Hosi bhi Sach.

Humbly

Serjinder Singh

[Niranjana]

This is a great post, albeit with many Kala Afghana revisionist undertones, however let’s focus on the main thrust concerning the Tantric (Shakat) ideology – namely surrounding the “Sarabloh†concept – this is something I and many others have referred to on a number of occasions concerning widerspread belief in the power of Sarabloh.

The Nihangs have indictaed their stance on the matter amply, for them “CHANDI PUJA†is the reverence of weapons (i.e. being skilled in their use and respect for shastars) and general respect for Sarabloh – i.e. as the form of the Devi. It seems beyond doubt that the tradition of Sarabloh bibek is one within Sikh circles derived from Nihangs (although there are “hindu†Sarabloh bibekis (obviously the “Shakatsâ€) as well – see the Tapoban site where an extensive discussion took place sometime ago when one purkha witnessed this during his journeys to India).

In short, regardless of arguments that modern day groups may make about Sarabloh being some form of compulsory Gurmat Maryada, ironically they remain blissfully unaware of its links and origins within the wider themes of Chandi Puja and Shakat practice…