Guest Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I currently serve on the gurdwara management committee. I recently had to confront the rest of the executive and was shot down. We are the only gurdwara in quite a large area and from out of town we got a request for anand Karaj from a Sikh girls family. Problem is the boy is not Sikh... He is Hindu. So I brought up to the president and who first said many families married there before interfaith. I brought it up at the most recent executive meeting and was told by an older aunty some (what I think are disturbing) answers: 1 she said we do not follow Sikh Reget Maryada (then how can even run a gurdwara with SGGSJ??? This is wrong!!) 2. She said in Canada we do not come under Akal Takht and so we don't have to do as they say! (Again how can this be??? Who DOES she think we come under then?) 3. She said following SRM would take us back a century and started talking about discrimination even when I tried to explain deeper meaning in the lavans and how could someone believe the deeper spiritual meanings of they are not Sikh? (She started going on how we don't force convert etc which has nothing to do about the anand Karaj ceremony. No we don't try to convert people but in same light someone who isn't Sikh would just be making an empty ritual of it?) So in summary we are having an interfaith marriage here next month and even worse the date was selected by astrology / auspiciousness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I personally don't think you should enforce rules too much as they would get turn off and go else where, i personally think rather energy should be spent rather doing actually parchar of anand karaj. Why don't you have meeting with couples - at least two session on what anand karaj is before the actual ceremony. And at the anand karaj ceremony, leave with up to Guru Maharaj with ardas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harjots8963 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Require a Anand Karaj Course. There is katha available on it in both English and Punjabi... Something like that. I don't think we should be so be so lenient not enforce rules to the point where we are allowing beadbi of sorts. What's wrong with having a civil marriage? They can still even be in the Gurughar and have an ardas done. Why insist on Laaavan, when they are for two Gursikhs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Guest said: I currently serve on the gurdwara management committee. I recently had to confront the rest of the executive and was shot down. We are the only gurdwara in quite a large area and from out of town we got a request for anand Karaj from a Sikh girls family. Problem is the boy is not Sikh... He is Hindu. So I brought up to the president and who first said many families married there before interfaith. I brought it up at the most recent executive meeting and was told by an older aunty some (what I think are disturbing) answers: Guest jee - Does your Gurudwara allow marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, paapiman said: Guest jee - Does your Gurudwara allow marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs? Bhul chuk maaf Yes, and obviously they have married non-Sikhs before too as many of the long time members children have married there to Christian etc. And yes they did it by anand karaj. In any case marriage of non-Amritdhari doesnt bother me as long as they profess the Sikh faith: Article I – Definition of Sikh Any human being who faithfully believes in: • One Immortal Being • Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh • The Guru Granth Sahib • The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus • The baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh. ---- There are plenty of Sikhs who never take Amrit. (as a side note I have taken it) But there are many who believe in baptism but are not ready for many years. I would rather someone take it when they feel time is right and they can follow RM than do it just so they can get married and then start breaking RM because they can't make the commitment. At least that shows they do in fact believe in it. It doesn't say they must BE amritdhari. But as far as interfaith: The last line... and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion is a Sikh. It is very specific that anand karaj is between two Sikhs (whether Amritdhari or not). Also, Akal Takht issued a Hukamnama in 2007 clarifying this issue which outright says the non-Sikh MUST embrace the Sikh faith, including changing their name to Singh or Kaur PRIOR to the marriage. I AM however fine with the idea of kirtan, taking hukamnama etc and doing civil marriage in the Gurdwara. Just why do the anand karaj if you are not Sikh and do not believe the spiritual deeper meaning of it?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest said: Guest jee - Anand Karaj ceremony is only meant for Amritdhari Sikhs. If your Gurudwara allows marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs, they should have no problem in allowing non-Sikhs to get married at the Gurudwara. Without Rehat, there is no Sikhi. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, paapiman said: Guest jee - Anand Karaj ceremony is only meant for Amritdhari Sikhs. If your Gurudwara allows marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs, they should have no problem in allowing non-Sikhs to get married at the Gurudwara. Without Rehat, there is no Sikhi. Bhul chuk maaf You can't just exclude and marginalize 80-90% of the panth like that. The Sehajdharis are still part of the Sikh panth and follow Sikh rituals and customs. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurpreetKaur Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 30 minutes ago, paapiman said: Guest jee - Anand Karaj ceremony is only meant for Amritdhari Sikhs. If your Gurudwara allows marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs, they should have no problem in allowing non-Sikhs to get married at the Gurudwara. Without Rehat, there is no Sikhi. Bhul chuk maaf Do people get married in the samparda you follow? Since celibacy is a High choice and women are not human. I think most of the men just avoid women like plague so anand karaj is not even needed. Right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, amardeep said: You can't just exclude and marginalize 80-90% of the panth like that. The Sehajdharis are still part of the Sikh panth and follow Sikh rituals and customs. Bro, one cannot change Sikh principles. Don't mix Sehajdharis with Patits/Niguray. The Sehajdharis are people, who are born in non-Sikh families and have Shardha towards Sikhi. If Niguray want to call themselves Sikhs, they can do so, but they cannot hide from the fact that by definition (according to Gurbani), they cannot be classified as Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Saleya tu ta bada wahabi nikleya 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said: Do people get married in the samparda you follow? Daas tries to follow Sikhism a bit. In Sikhism, celibacy is an option and women are part of Mankind, but are not men. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 So if one is born in a sikh family but isn't amritdhari, then one is a nigura (one without a guru?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 55 minutes ago, paapiman said: Guest jee - Anand Karaj ceremony is only meant for Amritdhari Sikhs. If your Gurudwara allows marriage of non-Amritdhari Sikhs, they should have no problem in allowing non-Sikhs to get married at the Gurudwara. Without Rehat, there is no Sikhi. Bhul chuk maaf That's dumb. That's the perfect way to make a bad problem even worse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Just now, amardeep said: So if one is born in a sikh family but isn't amritdhari, then one is a nigura (one without a guru?) Obviously. This should be simple to understand. Guru Dhikeya (Baptism) is a requirement to adopt a Guru, even according to Sanatan Mat. What do you think is a definition of Nigura? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I never use that word so dont have a definition of it. So you're saying the 18-19th century sewa panthis were not Sikhs? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Just now, dalsingh101 said: That's dumb. That's the perfect way to make a bad problem even worse. Bro, try to understand. We cannot practice hypocrisy Allowing alcoholics, meat eaters(Halal), smokers, hair cutters, etc, to get married in Gurudwaras, but prohibiting Sehajdharis (non-Sikhs), who have love and devotion for Gurus, from doing the same. Don't you think that this is hyprocrisy? Either allow marriage for only Amritdharis (according to Anand Karaj) or allow marriage for all (non-Amritdhairs and non-Sikhs). Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, paapiman said: 10 minutes ago, amardeep said: Saleya tu ta bada wahabi nikleya Best post of this year so far. lol! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, amardeep said: So you're saying the 18-19th century sewa panthis were not Sikhs? Srimaan Baba Jagta jee Maharaaj and Srimaan Baba Seva Ram jee Maharaaj were Sehajdhairs. They were born in Hindu families. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, paapiman said: Bro, try to understand. We cannot practice hypocrisy Allowing alcoholics, meat eaters(Halal), smokers, hair cutters, etc, to get married in Gurudwaras, but prohibiting Sehajdharis (non-Sikhs), who have love and devotion for Gurus, from doing the same. Don't you think that this is hyprocrisy? Either allow marriage for only Amritdharis (according to Anand Karaj) or allow marriage for all (non-Amritdhairs and non-Sikhs). Bhul chuk maaf I always knew you was a fudhu bundha. Like we haven't got enough issues with apnay moving away because of obnoxious kuttarh panthis, and then you come along with this shit. Don't just throw people away because they don't fit your lofty standards fudhua. You can tell these geezer's grown up with arabs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurpreetKaur Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, paapiman said: Bro, try to understand. We cannot practice hypocrisy Allowing alcoholics, meat eaters(Halal), smokers, hair cutters, etc, to get married in Gurudwaras, but prohibiting Sehajdharis (non-Sikhs), who have love and devotion for Gurus, from doing the same. Don't you think that this is hyprocrisy? Either allow marriage for only Amritdharis (according to Anand Karaj) or allow marriage for all (non-Amritdhairs and non-Sikhs). Bhul chuk maaf you know there are many people born in Sikh families who don't drink, eat halal and sleep around, have love for sikhi. Follow everything a good person is supposed to be. Don't call me non sikh just because I am not amritdhari and not Hindu. Umm rude lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 minute ago, dalsingh101 said: I always knew you was a fudhu bundha. Like we haven't got enough issues with apnay moving away because of obnoxious kuttrah panthis, and then you come along with this shit. Don't just throw people away because they don't fit your lofty standards fudhua. You can tell these geezers grown up with arabs. Bro, Daas cannot be a hypocrite. For example, if Daas calls a mona a Sikh, then tell him that he cannot do seva in Sachkhand, cannot do Degh dee seva, etc, this will be hypocrisy. Don't make Amrit look like a lofty standard yaar. It is an elementary thing in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Paapiman: How do you know they descended from HIndu parents? And we dont really know much about the early sewa panthi's family lineage but I hardly take it they were all recent converts to Sikhi? The sewa panthis did'n start becoming amritdharis untill the 20th century. It's a mentality like yours that has caused so much destruction to Sikh heritage and culture. The Rababis were thrown out of Harimandir Sahib due to not being amritdharis, even though they been serving in the Harimandir Sahib and other Gurdwaras since the time of the Gurus. Edited March 5, 2016 by amardeep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Just now, paapiman said: Bro, Daas cannot be a hypocrite. For example, if Daas calls a mona a Sikh, then tell him that he cannot do seva in Sachkhand, cannot do Degh dee seva, etc, this will be hypocrisy. Don't make Amrit look like a lofty standard yaar. It is an elementary thing in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf Do you train and are ready to kick off as an Amritdhari? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 21 minutes ago, amardeep said: Saleya tu ta bada wahabi nikleya Bro, we should not judge people on the basis of Amrit. Love and respect Niguray too, but we cannot start changing our own rules and regulations. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 What about the udasis? They weren't Sikhs either according to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.