Gurbilas Patshahi Chhevin

[chatanga1]

38 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Brother, you need to get over this coyness.

There is no need for it. 

The text is talking about sex, a topic that seems to terrify too many apnay. Kaula is saying: "If Guru ji never had sex (bhog), then how could they have had 4 sons.

 

Agreed. We are all adults here.

 

38 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

One word that turns up a few times in the text that I'm struggling with is: ਸਸਿ

Normally it means moon, but what does it mean here? 

I have been told it means "daughter".

[Jatro]

40 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

 

Brother, you need to get over this coyness.

 

There is no need for it. 

 

The text is talking about sex, a topic that seems to terrify too many apnay. Kaula is saying: "If Guru ji never had sex (bhog), then how could they have had 4 sons.

 

One word that turns up a few times in the text that I'm struggling with is: ਸਸਿ

 

Normally it means moon, but what does it mean here? 

As chatanga1 said, could be daughter. Another possibility is that it is a changed form of sanskrit "shasya" which means 'kheti', so something which grows out of something else( here children given birth through parents)

[chatanga1]

4 hours ago, Jatro said:

SAWAIYYA

She had this though in her mind, "Guru has left me( or will not accept me) because he thinks i'm impure",

"She became attached to the turk's house", thus the Guru may have thought [not 100% sure of my translation here]

 

Bro, that is fantastic work. When I read this i thought it meant "I was born in a Turk's (muslim) house."

[chatanga1]

On 26/04/2016 at 0:03 PM, paapiman said:

@chatanga1 - Bro, has anyone written a Teeka, or done Katha, of this Granth?

No-one has done katha  I know of. I wish someone had done katha of it though. It seems like a very fascinating granth.

Concerning teeka's if you watch the video above there have been some teekas done over the years. The teekakars have been named. Bhai Vir Singh was mentioned as doing one. I wonder if that's still avaialble?

[dalsingh101]

6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

 

Agreed. We are all adults here.

 

I have been told it means "daughter".

Who told you this Chatanga? 

[chatanga1]

I asked a Gyani at Gurdwara. I showed him the text and he told me some of the words I couldnt understand.

[paapiman]

On 4/27/2016 at 7:23 AM, Jatro said:

BTW this website is of great help in understanding some of the difficult words encountered:

http://punjabipedia.org/index.aspx

Bro, is this Granth in Punjabi or HIndi (Brij Basha)?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Jatro]

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, is this Granth in Punjabi or HIndi (Brij Basha)?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

It's not hardcore Brij of the type seen in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, more of a Punjabized version of it, somewhat similar to the language used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, Jatro said:

It's not hardcore Brij of the type seen in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, more of a Punjabized version of it, somewhat similar to the language used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib

I find it one of the most difficult texts I've read yet for some reason, am I the only one? 

[Jatro]

1 minute ago, dalsingh101 said:

I find it one of the most difficult texts I've read yet for some reason, am I the only one? 

I feel Gurbilas Patshahi 10 is much more difficult to understand, GP6 is at least somewhat familiar in terms of the words used

[chatanga1]

Here's the next page:

[chatanga1]

16 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I find it one of the most difficult texts I've read yet for some reason, am I the only one? 

I think like reading other Brij texts like Sri Gur Sobha, this is easier to get the general grasp of. I can see a little of where the subject is heading but still need help on the wording used.

 

15 hours ago, Jatro said:

I feel Gurbilas Patshahi 10 is much more difficult to understand, GP6 is at least somewhat familiar in terms of the words used

I think GP10 is a lot harder to understand as well.

[chatanga1]

Sorath

Leaving aside his prayers, the Guru stood up,

He could not see the pain of the devotee's affection (702)

 

Chaupai

The Guru entered Kaulan's house, immediately happiness spread

Seeing her full of tears, the separation was unable to be explained (703)

Sitting near her, she became happy, her contented mind, and the place became peaceful

The Holy Mouth said why are you in pain? Tell me dear, why are you distressed? (704)

 

 

This is hard work. Anyone got any ideas about the above (and furher)?

[Jatro]

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Sorath

Leaving aside his prayers, the Guru stood up,

He could not see the pain of the devotee's affection

 

Chaupai

The Guru entered Kaulan's house, immediately happiness spread

Seeing her full of tears, the separation was unable to be explained

Sitting near her, she became happy, her contented mind, and the place became peaceful

The Holy Mouth said why are you in pain? Tell me dear, why are you distressed?

 

 

This is hard work. Anyone got any ideas about the above (and furher)?

Kaulan said, Chaupai

O lord i have great regret, i can't even bring myself to say this

Still i shall say it, listen carefully, I have lost my religion(705)

i have attached myself to you, i have nothing to do with the world anymore

thinking of me as a Turkani you have forgotten me, you have not destroyed the shine of the enemy of Shiva( this means that there was no physical relation)(706)

Dohra

[This seems to be speaking of some marriage, is there any mention of this earlier ?](707)

Sri Guru said

Kaulan do not have any regret, contemplate this in your mind

Lustful people have to face many regrets in the world(708)

 

 

[chatanga1]

Nice one bro. Have you had a look through mine? Does it make sense?

I asked a Gyani at Gurdwara today about the some of the words I am having difficulty with.

[dalsingh101]

Interesting thing is that Mata Kaula (judging by this text) appears to have been willingly co-habiting with the 'turk' previously? 

[Jatro]

18 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Nice one bro. Have you had a look through mine? Does it make sense?

I asked a Gyani at Gurdwara today about the some of the words I am having difficulty with.

Yes, i think you've got it right.

[chatanga1]

20 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Interesting thing is that Mata Kaula (judging by this text) appears to have been willingly co-habiting with the 'turk' previously? 

 

Mata Kaulan was the daughter of a qazi from lahore and was a muslim.

[chatanga1]

23 hours ago, Jatro said:

 

Kaulan do not have any regret, contemplate this in your mind

Lustful people have to face many regrets in the world(708)

 

Bhaji I saw this as :

"The desire for love has seen many face unboundless hardships in this world". (708)

Madan means love but I think it wold be inappropriate here to see it as lust on Mata Kaulan's part.

[dalsingh101]

58 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

 

Mata Kaulan was the daughter of a qazi from lahore and was a muslim.

I don't know if it is (another) attempt by conservative apnay to whitewash the past, but I read an internet account earlier (linked by Amardeep I think), that suggested that she was a Hindu girl who had been 'adopted' or kidnapped by the qazi who was using her sexually??

[Jatro]

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

 

Bhaji I saw this as :

"The desire for love has seen many face unboundless hardships in this world". (708)

Madan means love but I think it wold be inappropriate here to see it as lust on Mata Kaulan's part.

Could be love, but the use of word 'tapat'(burning/fire) and the verses which follow (explicitly talking about lust) was what drove me to use 'lust'.

[chatanga1]

2 hours ago, Jatro said:

Could be love, but the use of word 'tapat'(burning/fire) and the verses which follow (explicitly talking about lust) was what drove me to use 'lust'.

 

Yes I was looking at the further lines and there is talk of intercourse. But I don't think that Mata Kaulan was lusting after Guru Sahib. I feel more that she fell in love with Guru Sahib and wished him to take her as a bride. Seeing as Guru Sahib had wives and children, she feels that Guru Sahib should accept her request and take her as his wife as well.

 

Coming back to this line:

On 08/05/2016 at 6:29 PM, Jatro said:

Dohra

[This seems to be speaking of some marriage, is there any mention of this earlier ?](707)

In the past years there have been many marriage proposals

How have you forgotten me, is burning my body (707)

[chatanga1]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

 that suggested that she was a Hindu girl who had been 'adopted' or kidnapped by the qazi who was using her sexually??

I haven't seen any text that says that explicitly but it seems unusual in this case. Muslims had been taking hindu women as wifes regularly, so if the Qazi wanted to use the girl, it would have been easier to have married her.

[chatanga1]

Here are the meaning to some of the words for the next Swaiya.

sRm = effort

mYQun = intercourse

Gno = a lot or excessively

lMpt = lustful

I'm not sure of how to structure the sentence but here goes:

Swaiya

 

A woman who lives under a man ( a slave), that man is intoxicated with lust

Having intercourse without any effort or excessively, invites the wrath of Yama

Knocking on the door of Yam's abode, in the woman's company, here the pain is greatly increased

Oh Woman, recognise this as virtuous in this world, abandoning the pleasure of a man (intercourse) feel peaceful. (709)

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

I haven't seen any text that says that explicitly but it seems unusual in this case. Muslims had been taking hindu women as wifes regularly, so if the Qazi wanted to use the girl, it would have been easier to have married her.

Mata Kaulan was a spiritual woman during time of Guru Hargobind Sahib. Kaulan means the one who is Living in abode of Lotus<ref>ਕਉਲਾ - kaulā - कउलाਸੰ. ਕਮਲਾ. ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਲਕ੍ਸ਼੍‍ਮੀ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਕਮਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਹੈ. "ਸੇਵੇ ਚਰਨ ਨਿਤ ਕਉਲਾ." (ਵਾਰ ਕਾਨ ਮਃ ੪), Mahankosh, Kahn Singh Nabha </ref>. There are different views of historians regarding Mata Kaulan and her relation with Guru Hargobind with one common view that she was true disciple of Guru Hargobind.

Regarding Mata Kaulan, Kahn Singh Nabha states in Mahankosh:

ਇੱਕ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਲੜਕੀ ਕਮਲਾ, ਜੋ ਕਾਜੀ ਰੁਸਤਮਖ਼ਾਂ ਮੁਜੰਗ (ਲਹੌਰ) ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਨੇ ਮੁੱਲ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਗੋਲੀ ਪਾਲੀ ਸੀ, ਅਤੇ ਇਸਲਾਮ ਧਰਮ ਦੀ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਾ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਵਿਦ੍ਵਾਨ ਬਣਾਈ ਸੀ. ਪਰ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਦਾ ਝੁਕਾਉ ਹਿੰਦੂਧਰਮ ਵੱਲ ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ ਸੀ. ਗੁਰੁਮਹਿਮਾ ਅਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਈ ਦਰਵੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਜਾਗਿਆ, ਅਤੇ ਛੀਵੇਂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਰਣ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਜੀਵਨ ਵਿਤਾਇਆ. ਕਮਲਾ ਦਾ ਦੇਹਾਂਤ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੬੮੬ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਹੋਇਆ. ਇਸ ਦੀ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਉਸ ਥਾਂ ਵਿਦ੍ਯਮਾਨ ਹੈ. ਭਾਈ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਕਮਲਾ ਦਾ ਦਫ਼ਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਇਤਿਹਾਸ ਵਿਰੁੱਧ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ. ਕੌਲਸਰ. ਜੋ ਕੌਲਾਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਪੂਰਿਤ ਢਾਬ ਦੇ ਥਾਂ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਕੌਲਾਂ (ਕਮਲਾ) ਦੇ ਨਾਉਂ ਤੋਂ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੬੮੪ ਵਿੱਚ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਵਾਇਆ

She had been kidnapped by a Muslim priest of the court called Qazi Rustam Khan. He was based in Lahore, Pakistan. Qazi Rustam Khan had stolen her from her Hindu parents while she was a child. The Qazi gave her the education of Islam and sent her to Saint Mian Mir for higher schooling.

...........................

Mata Kaulan Jee was imprisoned in the house of the Qazi and forced to do unthinkable things. The Qazi kept Mata Kaulan Jee under the pretense that she was his adopted daughter but the truth was very different and he did not treat her as a daughter at all. She was beaten and tortured very badly and was regularly abused.

 

From: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mata_Kaulan