Guest Annya Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Sikhism preaches men and women are equal, is it a MYTH? It is all very well to proclaim vehemently that Sikhism does offer equal status to both men and women, then why has the world failed to witness it? Is it because socially/culturally this 'equality' is frowned upon and considered threatening? If women were treated equally would this in any way cause degeneration and decline of the Sikh religion/community/society/Sikh way of life? Why do we see more Sikh male preachers, raaggies, kathavatacs, kirtan singers and members of the committees? Why has no one ever heard of women hazoory raaggies or kirtan singers? Why are there more male Sikh Saints and not that many female Saints, considering Sikhism preaches equality of both sexes? There are so many Sikh Saints who leave their families behind in search of the Truth, why are women not doing the same? Does Sikhism preach women don't need to search for the ultimate TRUTH? I am not sure if tenets of Sikhism endorse the idea that, 'It is a man's world out there?' I am positive that it doesn't! One more question, why do Sikh couples/families love to have more sons than daughters? Why have female foetuses aborted, is this not a sin and would this not entail a birth in the cycle of 84 lacs species again? This is totally baffling for people joining the Sikh religion! Why are there different rules for men and women when Sikhism teaches equality? Is it not completely mystifying to state emphatically that Sikhism believes in equality of both men and women but all the evidence presented points to the opposite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koi Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 There is always a difference between the philosophy and what people practice. That's true of any faith. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Why do we see more Sikh male preachers, raaggies, kathavatacs, kirtan singers and members of the committees? Why has no one ever heard of women hazoory raaggies or kirtan singers? Why are there more male Sikh Saints and not that many female Saints, considering Sikhism preaches equality of both sexes? There are so many Sikh Saints who leave their families behind in search of the Truth, why are women not doing the same? Does Sikhism preach women don't need to search for the ultimate TRUTH? I am not sure if tenets of Sikhism endorse the idea that, 'It is a man's world out there?' I am positive that it doesn't! Is their anybody stopping women from becoming raagi's , katha vachak , members of committee? More men simply does not mean discrimination , it could be the result of interest of men more in these things rather than discrimination. The type of western gender similarity which many are searching in sikhism is hardly going to be found in sikh history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Please take a look at this topic which was researched - ~~Thread Dedicated To Sikh Woman Parcharikhs/sants ~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Guest Annya said: One more question, why do Sikh couples/families love to have more sons than daughters? Why have female foetuses aborted, is this not a sin and would this not entail a birth in the cycle of 84 lacs species again? Female Infanticide is a heinous sin in Sikhism. Please have a look below (Sikh code of Conduct - DDT Samprada): Bhul chuk maaf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Guest Annya you are opening a can of worms and soon you will be called a nindak by members on here for even broaching this topic. Just leave it. Know that our Gurus taught equality, and Gurbani only speaks of equality. There is no seva reserved for men only (even though some men like to think there is and that is their problem not Sikhi) and there are no restrictions on women (even though you probably read the disgusting comments about menstruation etc recently on here) but the idea of that too is condemned in Gurbani. Stick with those who follow Rehet Maryada of Akal Takht as if they are following Sikh Rehet Maryada it states men and women have equal rights in Sikhi and that female fetus abortion is not allowed. Encourage more women to run for gurdwara management or do so yourself (I am actually in management committee here for second year in a row at a 99% Punjabi Gurdwara and I am a gori convert). Kirtan here is done mostly by women. Women take hukamnama here and lead ardaas. Go to gurdwara and go up to do chaur sahib seva and nobody will stop you. If you go to gurdwaras run by certain groups (jathas/sampardas) you will find nothing but disappointment if you want them to see you as an equal it will never happen. You will be expected to sit quietly and follow while the men do all the leading. Or you can cook langar. That's about it. If you have Akhand Kirtani Jatha in your area they absolutely do practice equality but they have some other differences of their own that some find too orthodox and extreme like eating from only iron utensils (sarbloh bibek) and never allowing food from outside, only food cooked by yourself (or other Amritdhari) They also consider the keski (small turban) mandatory for both male and female (equal is equal) and consider it to be a kakkar instead of kesh. But AKJ do really great simran and Kirtan. You may find you like them because of that equality. I highly respect them but I could never follow sarbloh bibek for practical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I share students' accommodation with 8 students and they all happen to be Sikhs. They are very nice and friendly people. I have learnt a lot about Sikhism from them, in fact, I have also been going to the Sikh temple with them. I was so intrigued to see so many Sikh ladies and young girls wearing turbans, so, I just asked my friends whether there was a strict requirement for Sikh females to wear them. I received mixed answers, but they spoke a great deal about equality of both sexes in Sikhism. One day, the two students disagreed on this issue so much that it actually became a fierce argument. The boys joined in and the girls raised many of the above issues with them and to my surprise no one had a definite answer to any of the questions. Few weeks ago, the girls were discussing this topic between themselves and I was just sitting with them as a passive listener not able to say anything. So, I decided to post my query here to see if I can get some answers to the questions raised previously. It would be nice to know the opinions of others apart from these 8 people I know, so that, the next time they are discussing this topic I am able to participate and prove my knowledge. I have read quite a few books on Sikhism but they don't supply the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 The short answer is yes, Sikhi provides equal treatment of ALL humans regardless of race, colour, caste, creed, gender, rich/poor etc. However, although vast majority of Sikhs will agree on all the other points in my above statement, many Sikh males refuse to acknowledge gender equality and want to keep the top posts for themselves. The only reason gender inequality exists is the Sikhs who are propagating it. Our Gurus and our holy book (which we will never consider a book but is our eternal Guru) Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, only speaks of equality of everyone, and that includes gender. These stupid rules where women are given less opportunity by some groups in Sikhism (certain posts reserved for men only, our most holy place doesn't allow women to do much there at all, the things you mentioned above, plus limitations on women because of menstruation etc.) these limitations are actually against our scripture and what our Gurus taught. The only reason they are enforced are that those who enforce them can't stand the thought of women having equal say and power or even participating as an equal. They want women to remain to be seen as passive and lesser than. But if you continue to ask here, you will be called western feminist if you expect any sort of equitible tretment of women, others will say its a team men are not against women... their idea of a team is men order, women obey. Men lead, women follow. Many of the guys on here want submissive obedient wives they can order around while they get to be 'in charge'. And this desire to always be in charge over women spills into the religion. Now.... just watch what happens and what I will be called and you will see. Wait... its coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paganvegan Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 http://www.canadiansikhcentre.com/uncategorized/bertrand-russel-on-granth-sahib-and-sikhism/ This is the only religion that will save humanity and take it forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Sikhism preaches men and women are equal, is it a MYTH? Before we discuss this is it impolite to suggest that you may have, from the rest of your post already have the gist of what you beleive is the answer? In answer to above, no. Gurmat believes that all genders are equal, not just the two that you have mentioned. 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: It is all very well to proclaim vehemently that Sikhism does offer equal status to both men and women, then why has the world failed to witness it? Maybe you could give us examples of this world that you are referring to. Most of the non-Sikhs I have ever spoke to about Gurmat are very impressed by the status offered to all genders, not just the two genders you have listed. 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Why do we see more Sikh male preachers, raaggies, kathavatacs, kirtan singers and members of the committees? You forgot to mention that the Dal Khalsa were almost to a man, men. 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Why has no one ever heard of women hazoory raaggies or kirtan singers? Can you please tell me what is a "Hazoory raaggi"? 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: There are so many Sikh Saints who leave their families behind in search of the Truth, why are women not doing the same? It may have to do with women being the backbone of the family. But there are equally so many Sikh saints who haven't left their families. 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Sikhism preaches men and women are equal, is it a MYTH? It is all very well to proclaim vehemently that Sikhism does offer equal status to both men and women, then why has the world failed to witness it? Is it because socially/culturally this 'equality' is frowned upon and considered threatening? If women were treated equally would this in any way cause degeneration and decline of the Sikh religion/community/society/Sikh way of life? Why do we see more Sikh male preachers, raaggies, kathavatacs, kirtan singers and members of the committees? Why has no one ever heard of women hazoory raaggies or kirtan singers? Why are there more male Sikh Saints and not that many female Saints, considering Sikhism preaches equality of both sexes? There are so many Sikh Saints who leave their families behind in search of the Truth, why are women not doing the same? Does Sikhism preach women don't need to search for the ultimate TRUTH? I am not sure if tenets of Sikhism endorse the idea that, 'It is a man's world out there?' I am positive that it doesn't! One more question, why do Sikh couples/families love to have more sons than daughters? Why have female foetuses aborted, is this not a sin and would this not entail a birth in the cycle of 84 lacs species again? This is totally baffling for people joining the Sikh religion! Why are there different rules for men and women when Sikhism teaches equality? Is it not completely mystifying to state emphatically that Sikhism believes in equality of both men and women but all the evidence presented points to the opposite? 9 hours ago, Guest Annya said: One more question, why do Sikh couples/families love to have more sons than daughters? Why have female foetuses aborted, is this not a sin and would this not entail a birth in the cycle of 84 lacs species again? This is not peculiar to Sikh families but families throughout India, as the dowry system has led to this crime of aborting female foetus' or killing them after birth. I know plenty of Sikhs families in India who have more girls than boys. The abortion of foetuses and their entering the 84 lac joons is a subject that would be better off in it's own topic. It is a very serious subject and there may be existing topics already on this forum if you wish to do a search. If not, then start a new topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 12 hours ago, Guest Annya said: Sikhism preaches men and women are equal, is it a MYTH? It is all very well to proclaim vehemently that Sikhism does offer equal status to both men and women, then why has the world failed to witness it? Is it because socially/culturally this 'equality' is frowned upon and considered threatening? If women were treated equally would this in any way cause degeneration and decline of the Sikh religion/community/society/Sikh way of life? Why do we see more Sikh male preachers, raaggies, kathavatacs, kirtan singers and members of the committees? Why has no one ever heard of women hazoory raaggies or kirtan singers? Why are there more male Sikh Saints and not that many female Saints, considering Sikhism preaches equality of both sexes? There are so many Sikh Saints who leave their families behind in search of the Truth, why are women not doing the same? Does Sikhism preach women don't need to search for the ultimate TRUTH? I am not sure if tenets of Sikhism endorse the idea that, 'It is a man's world out there?' I am positive that it doesn't! One more question, why do Sikh couples/families love to have more sons than daughters? Why have female foetuses aborted, is this not a sin and would this not entail a birth in the cycle of 84 lacs species again? This is totally baffling for people joining the Sikh religion! Why are there different rules for men and women when Sikhism teaches equality? Is it not completely mystifying to state emphatically that Sikhism believes in equality of both men and women but all the evidence presented points to the opposite? Why do we see more male scientists? Or more male rock stars? Or more male geniuses in the past 100 years? when western culture has seen equal opportunities for 100 years? this is a question for women to answer, rather then accusing men all the time. why is every world religion mostly male founders? even though the following is at least 50% female? firstly, being a ragi or preacher, on a international scale is not a glamorous job. they often have to share accomodation, travel alone, mix with strangers. do you not think that this is easier for men? ask indian women how safe india is for lone women? even look at the west, all the unreported rapes etc. another thing is- there's no 'glamour' in being a raagi. meaning, Raagis have to be moderate in dress and custom etc. are modern women willing to give up self grooming, fashion etc to be a raagi. i do not think most want to. by hazoori raagi i think you mean raagis at historic places of worship for sikhs. they places have traditions from older times. it doesnt mean they have to constantly change themselves to appease modern sensibilities all the time. however they do consider things intelligently. traditionally, north indian society/culture has been reserved. Guru Nanaks time was like the taliban regime. In this culture women are reserved and not liking to be on stage etc. it may not been the same as modern and/or western culture, but just because its different does not mean its inferior. in old times in india there was a moral code 'dharma' where roles of men, women, children, elderly etc were all clearly laid out and defined. preference for sons is for economic reasons. people want children who will support them in old age, and inherit their wealth and property. the problem is that traditionally women after marriage become part of their husbands family, and would leave the parents house. this is shown by woman taking on man's family name after marriage. again not saying this is right or wrong, but this is tradition. equality in sikhism means women are not to be condemned and arenot inferior in anyway. its very small minded to think that modern morality is 'right' and everything should be forced to conform to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 4 hours ago, CdnSikhGirl said: many Sikh males refuse to acknowledge gender equality and want to keep the top posts for themselves. The only reason they are enforced are that those who enforce them can't stand the thought of women having equal say and power or even participating as an equal. They want women to remain to be seen as passive and lesser than. how would you know? the head of SGPC a while back was a woman. i think she honour killed her daughter for marrying a hindu boy. its kind of insulting to project all these things on people you know nothing about. you walked into this religion like 2 minutes ago (no offence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 just to clarify i mean the women becoming part of husbands family after marriage is tradition, i do not mean to say preference for boys is tradition, which it is not. it is economic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 just to clarify i mean the women becoming part of husbands family after marriage is tradition, i do not mean to say preference for boys is tradition, which it is not. it is economic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: how would you know? the head of SGPC a while back was a woman. i think she honour killed her daughter for marrying a hindu boy. its kind of insulting to project all these things on people you know nothing about. you walked into this religion like 2 minutes ago (no offence). Two minutes ago LOL. okay.... haha. You know, I have met people who have grown up in Sikh families who give no thought to deeper philosophical meaning in Gurbani. To them Gurdwara is just a place to socialize. At least those of us who came to it later in life, came with intent to learn. (and by the way later in life for me is at about age 20, and I am 40 now) And by learn I don't mean the cultural impositions (Hindu or otherwise) which have nothing to do with the teaching in Gurbani. Because we all know that Gurbani speaks of equality of all humans. And it actually says specifically treat ALL humans with a single eye of equality. So it doesn't mean hide women away in private life while men get all the glory, and somehow try to say that women are not seen as inferior. That's a bunch of bull crap. Gurbani INSTRUCTS as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality, for in each and every heart the divine light is contained. This means, see that gender is transitory, the divine light within ALL is the SAME light of the ONE Creator, therefore treat everyone with the same privileges. Single eye of equality is a term often used pertaining to justice. Therefore it's speaking of actions towards. In other words, if you allow men to perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib, according to Gurbani, so are women. Those of us who came to Sikhi on our own, outside of Punjabi culture, can see the religion separately from Punjabi culture including Hindu influence which places women in a lower inferior position. And yes, the bit about menstruation being dirty falls in there too! I can show in Gurbani where the idea of menstruation being unclean, is condemned openly by our Guru. Answer this, have you even taken Amrit? If not, I don't even want to converse with you. Some female Ragi Jathas (you don't think they are willing to give up fashion etc?) They should have every right to do kirtan anywhere that male ragi jathas can. By the way the first one was at Bangla Sahib... And these last ones just to show that yes women can even initiate into Khalsa as one of the Panj Pyaras: There is no reason for women to be told they aren't allowed to do anything in Sikhi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 so you go on about seeing the divine light in all people, but you don't want to talk to me because I havent taken a particular religious ceremony? double standard? and do you see the divine light in the people you judge as 'only there to socialize'? whatdo you know about their interior state? afterall they could easily socialize elsewhere. why do you even notice this if you are looking for the divine light in them? can you give me a concrete example of 'women being hidden away while men steal all the glory'? what glory? what privilege? these two words imply someone interested in external states like fame, not someone seeing divine light within everyone. so you resent women not being allowed to sing Gurbani at Darbar Sahib, not for spiritual reasons, but because you resent men having 'privilege' and 'glory'? do you think i resent non-keshdharies not being allowed to sing kirtan basically anywhere? not really. maybe because i'm not looking for 'glory' or 'priviliege', nor resenting those that (apparently) have it. maybe i can appreacite those traditions might be there for some reason known to people who actually take part in the work (and yes its work, not glory), and not to 'opress me'. (im not against women being allowed to sing kirtan there, nor am i for it being enforced. i rather leave it up to people with more insight into these things than me). btw your words on Gurbani are very good, and you make alot of good posts and points elsewhere on the site. my words are nothing against you personally at all. i wish you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I think anyone who does kirtan should do it from their heart, not for show. Men and women both! But there is no reason to keep women from doing it, other than the men who currently have a monopoly on it don't want to share the stage with women... No my not wanting to discuss with you was your comment about I have only been in Sikhi for like 2 min. I asked if you even took amrit because I have. So I guess I was slightly more productive in 2 min than however long you have been in Sikhi, but you feel like pointing out the fact that I came to it later in life as a flaw. That's why. I normally converse with anyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 On 31 March 2016 at 2:38 PM, kdsingh80 said: Is their anybody stopping women from becoming raagi's , katha vachak , members of committee? More men simply does not mean discrimination , it could be the result of interest of men more in these things rather than discrimination. The type of western gender similarity which many are searching in sikhism is hardly going to be found in sikh history The men in women's lives such as fathers, husbands don't let the women become raagies and so on. Why should more men be more interested in following this? The answer is, because they get the encouragement and full backing from their parents and other men, that's why. Women are not encouraged just because they are women only good enough for gossiping and kaleshs. What type of western gender similarity are talking about? In any case, it is much better to have western type of similarity, whatever that might be than treat women like brainless idiots only fit to work in the kitchen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 On 3/31/2016 at 8:38 AM, kdsingh80 said: The type of western gender similarity which many are searching in sikhism is hardly going to be found in sikh history You are right Paaji. Western style gender equality and feminism have no place in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 26 minutes ago, paapiman said: You are right Paaji. Western style gender equality and feminism have no place in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf Then Sikhism is not the truth it touts itself to be... Unfortunately. Because our creator would not want this. It seems Sikhism is not following its own scripture then... because this is what Gurbani says: Page 599, Line 2 ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ गुरमुखि एक द्रिसटि करि देखहु घटि घटि जोति समोई जीउ ॥२॥ Gurmukẖ ek ḏarisat kar ḏekẖhu gẖat gẖat joṯ samo▫ī jī▫o. ||2|| As Gurmukh, look upon all with the single eye of equality; in each and every heart, the Divine Light is contained. ||2|| Page 446, Line 12 ਸਭ ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਮਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਛਾਨ ਜੀਉ ॥ सभ एक द्रिसटि समतु करि देखै सभु आतम रामु पछान जीउ ॥ Sabẖ ek ḏarisat samaṯ kar ḏekẖai sabẖ āṯam rām pacẖẖān jī▫o. They look upon all with equality, and recognize the Supreme Soul, the Lord, pervading among all. Page 93, Line 18 ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥੩॥ रविदास सम दल समझावै कोऊ ॥३॥ Raviḏās sam ḏal samjẖāvai ko▫ū. ||3|| O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3|| Page 879, Line 14 ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਏਕੋ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਭਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ एक द्रिसटि एको करि देखिआ भीखिआ भाइ सबदि त्रिपतासै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ėk ḏarisat eko kar ḏekẖi▫ā bẖīkẖi▫ā bẖā▫e sabaḏ ṯaripṯāsai. ||1|| rahā▫o. He looks impartially, equally upon all. He receives the charity of the Lord's Love, and the Word of the Shabad, and so he is satisfied. ||1||Pause|| Page 1103, Line 18 ਦਰਸਨੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਭਏ ਸਮਦਰਸੀ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੨॥ दरसनु छोडि भए समदरसी एको नामु धिआवहिगे ॥२॥ Ḏarsan cẖẖod bẖa▫e samaḏrasī eko nām ḏẖi▫āvhige. ||2|| Giving up the different schools of philosophy, I look upon all equally; I meditate only on the One Name. ||2|| There are many many more examples like the above. But its obvious that many Singhs like to tout a version of Sikhi where men are in charge, men rule, women are ruled, men dictate, women obey, men are respected, women do the respecting, men lead, women follow. And this is considered 'roles'. It's a 'role' to be forced into subordination I guess. I'll follow Gurbani not this male dominated, egoistical, version of Sikhism that has no place for women (except under men's feet or in the kitchen). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 1 hour ago, paapiman said: You are right Paaji. Western style gender equality and feminism have no place in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf Really? I thought Sikhism was teaching equality long before western world had equality! Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the first feminist! Why do you hate women so much Paapiman? Gurbani makes it clear women and men are both equal and deserve equal respect and equal treatment. (in fact all humans are to be treated equally) But I have noticed you always say the word optimum and not equal. Its like you wont ever say that women should have equal privelege to us. Like you think that optimum for women means some place lower than men. If that is so, why do you think women are being punished to have a lower place? I am just curious where you are getting this hatred of women from? Why you think so strongly that our sisters Mothers and daughters deserve less than we do simply because of something they had no control over, which is being born into a female body? If women are to be treated with less dignity, less respect than men are, then what did they do to deserve that lower place? And what sampradas are teaching this? This sounds much more like Hindu ideology where being born woman is a punishment for past karmas and women are seen as lower than even the lowest caste male. I will choose to follow gurbani over anything and gurbani is clear on everyone being treated and seen as equal. This includes women. I can't look at my Mother and say Mom, you are a woman so you deserve less respect than Dad does. I won't ever look at my daughter and tell her that her brother has a higher status than her because he is male. I refuse to tell my daughter she is less than a man and deserves less respect. You say feminism has no place in Sikhism. Proper feminism only seeks to give women their proper equal rights. It doesn't seek to take anything away from males. At lest if it is proper feminism. Any males who are against that idea, are purely chauvenistic sexist and afraid of losing their perceived superiority. It's all Ego. By the way this is what Guru Nanak Dev Ji had to say on the issue: Gurmukẖ ek ḏarisat kar ḏekhhu ghat ghat joṯ samoi jio. That means every gurmukh must see everyone as an equal. If you don't follow that, you are not gurmukh, you are manmukh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 On 1 April 2016 at 1:19 AM, CdnSikhGirl said: But there is no reason to keep women from doing it, other than the men who currently have a monopoly on it don't want to share the stage with women... No my not wanting to discuss with you was your comment about I have only been in Sikhi for like 2 min. I asked if you even took amrit because I have. So I guess I was slightly more productive in 2 min than however long you have been in Sikhi, but you feel like pointing out the fact that I came to it later in life as a flaw. That's why. I normally converse with anyone.... more vicious judgements. they want a 'monopoly' on it? is that he best you could come up with? i don't believe particular ceremonies are necessary for spiritual development. hardly a revolutionary view. of course if comparing yourself to others makes you feel better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Guest said: The men in women's lives such as fathers, husbands don't let the women become raagies and so on. Why should more men be more interested in following this? The answer is, because they get the encouragement and full backing from their parents and other men, that's why. Women are not encouraged just because they are women only good enough for gossiping and kaleshs. are you a woman? is this what happened to you? if they don't want their daughters to become kirtan singers, don't you think maybe there are some reasons for that that are not about sadistic oppression. what are kaleshs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 17 minutes ago, Guest guest said: what are kaleshs? It could mean conflicts, sorrow, problems, etc. Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 3 hours ago, paapiman said: You are right Paaji. Western style gender equality and feminism have no place in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf I bet, you can't even define 'western style gender equality /feminism' anymore than you can define Waheguru!!! The message of the Gurus teaches us to love everyone and hate no one. It says to treat everyone equally. The only reason women behave the way they do is because of men that keep putting them down if they don't fit in with their perspective on how women should be. This nasty mental proclivity has been uprooted from the western civilisation thinking ages ago and they didn't even have to resort to any religious belief to do so. They just used their intelligence and not Bible! No wonder they COLONIZED the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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