Harman Singh Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Dear Sat Sangat WJKWJKF I was wondering if someone is selling meat for living and in order to that they employ butchers who kill animals lets say chickens, who will earn the bad karma the butcher or the person owning the business, or they will be pardoned because they are doing this for living. Sangat ji please come with your opinions. WJKWJKF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BhagatSingh Posted July 11, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Bhagat Sadhna j iwas a butcher and he was enlightened. However Bhai Gurdas ji warns that just because Sadhna ji was a butcher doesn't mean you should become one too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Harman Singh said: Dear Sat Sangat WJKWJKF I was wondering if someone is selling meat for living and in order to that they employ butchers who kill animals lets say chickens, who will earn the bad karma the butcher or the person owning the business, or they will be pardoned because they are doing this for living.Sangat ji please come with your opinions. WJKWJKF What is your opinion so far ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurpreetKaur Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 This tree is empty inside and pretty soon will fall. Mom dad want me to get it cut since they afraid it can damage things or can fall at someone. So, my question is since we know trees feel pain too. What should I do? If I get it removed, poor tree Ji will feel pain and I will feel bad. If we don't get it cut, it can do some damage and mom dad will yell at me. Parents yelling is no fun :( Sorry OP Ji, too lazy to make a new thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 Think about 'Sacha Sauda' story from Guru Nanak Sahib's Life. in context of facing the fury of a parent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Harman Singh said: Dear Sat Sangat WJKWJKF I was wondering if someone is selling meat for living and in order to that they employ butchers who kill animals lets say chickens, who will earn the bad karma the butcher or the person owning the business, or they will be pardoned because they are doing this for living. Sangat ji please come with your opinions. WJKWJKF all who profit earn the karma, including the butcher, the owner, and the eater, and the farmer. taken from a sant's katha, don't recall who. Quote This tree is empty inside and pretty soon will fall. Mom dad want me to get it cut since they afraid it can damage things or can fall at someone. So, my question is since we know trees feel pain too. What should I do? If I get it removed, poor tree Ji will feel pain and I will feel bad. If we don't get it cut, it can do some damage and mom dad will yell at me. Parents yelling is no fun :( cut it down, you have to protect your family's health and safety. i'll give an example, if i see a spider in the house i'll gently pick it up and put it outside. i don't want to unnecessarily kill living things. but if I saw a cockroach I would kill it b/c they carry disease. it would be a greater wrong to let it live and expose my family to disease. btw, there are no roachs in my very clean house, just an example :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 On 7/12/2016 at 6:19 AM, Xylitol said: all who profit earn the karma, including the butcher, the owner, and the eater, and the farmer. taken from a sant's katha, don't recall who. cut it down, you have to protect your family's health and safety. i'll give an example, if i see a spider in the house i'll gently pick it up and put it outside. i don't want to unnecessarily kill living things. but if I saw a cockroach I would kill it b/c they carry disease. it would be a greater wrong to let it live and expose my family to disease. btw, there are no roachs in my very clean house, just an example :) Religions like Jainism gave up farming , because it still require killing some pests. I guess sikhs should also give up farming because there is no way a farmer can survive without direct or indirect killings.In Indian states of Punjab , Haryana , west UP Buffalo is now most popular animal because unproductive buffaloes can be easily sold to slaughter houses while cow slaughter is ban so unproductive cow hold no value . You even has to pay from your pocket for unproductive cow to give it to gaushala .Buffalo meat export from India is now worth 25 thousand crores per annum. So almost all farmers are doing it willingly or unwillingly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 we are not jains. their dharm seems to emphasize karma over everything, hence the skyclad monks who are nude and cover their mouth in case a fly flies in and who sweep the ground in front of their every step. and yet just to remain alive our immune system kills great numbers of germs and parasites everyday! Our dharm emphasizes Grace, although we recognzie teh role karma plays and act to minimize that while still being practical and living our lives in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 1:23 PM, Harman Singh said: Dear Sat Sangat WJKWJKF I was wondering if someone is selling meat for living and in order to that they employ butchers who kill animals lets say chickens, who will earn the bad karma the butcher or the person owning the business, or they will be pardoned because they are doing this for living. Sangat ji please come with your opinions. WJKWJKF Paaji, both the butcher and the person owning the business will accumulate sins. Please refrain from doing such a business. Srimaan Bhagat Sadhna jee Maharaaj was a butcher, but he was a Muslim. In Islam, one is allowed to eat meat. His case is completely different and cannot be used to set any precedent in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 13 hours ago, kdsingh80 said: I guess sikhs should also give up farming because there is no way a farmer can survive without direct or indirect killings. Bro, humans (including Brahamgyanis) cannot escape from sins, but Gurmat lifestyle mitigates the amount of sins. There is no prohibition on farming in Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bhagat=Not Hindu or Muslim Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Bhagat Sadhna Ji was NOT a Muslim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 30 minutes ago, Guest Bhagat=Not Hindu or Muslim said: Bhagat Sadhna Ji was NOT a Muslim. Guest jee - He was born in a Muslim family in Hyderabad. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagat_Sadhana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bhagat=Not Hindu or Muslim Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Same logic is used to say Guru Nanak was Hindu simply due to parents. Those that believe in Gurmat cannot be Muslim or Hindu. If I set up a Mosque in memory of Guru Nanak it will not make Guru Sahib Muslim. Bhagat Sadhna Ji rejected Islam and Muhammad due to slavery being ok in Islam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest Bhagat=Not Hindu or Muslim said: Bhagat Sadhna Ji rejected Islam and Muhammad due to slavery being ok in Islam Please provide evidence. Did he reject Islam or simply went above the religion of Islam? What about Srimaan Bhagat Bhikhan Shah jee Maharaaj (another Bhagat) whose Bani is in SSGGSJM? He was a Hafiz of the Holy Quran. What about Srimaan Sheikh Baba Farid jee Maharaaj (another Bhagat) whose Bani is in SSGGSJM. He preached Islam to the people. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest ranjeet Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Quote However Bhai Gurdas ji warns that just because Sadhna ji was a butcher doesn't mean you should become one too. can u give the exact references 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 On 2016-07-15 at 9:38 AM, Guest Bhagat=Not Hindu or Muslim said: Those that believe in Gurmat cannot be Muslim or Hindu. I agree Bhagat Sadhna was not a Muslim but you can certainly believe in Gurmati and be from any religion. The Mati that any Guru provides does not know religious distinctions, in its essence. It supercedes any particular religions. It is the source of religion itself. I listen to all kinds of gurus from all faiths and I taste it. On 2016-07-15 at 11:29 AM, paapiman said: Please provide evidence. Did he reject Islam or simply went above the religion of Islam? He was a Vaishnav and Vaishnavs tend to gravitate towards being vegetarian. They tend to discourage meat-eating and slaughter. That is why Sadhna ji was facing a stigma for being a butcher because this profession was opposite to his religion. On 2016-07-15 at 11:29 AM, paapiman said: What about Srimaan Bhagat Bhikhan Shah jee Maharaaj (another Bhagat) whose Bani is in SSGGSJM? He was a Hafiz of the Holy Quran. Also a Vaishnav. ਰਾਮ ਰਾਇ ਹੋਹਿ ਬੈਦ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥ No Muslim is gona speak these words, I'll tell you that much."What about Kabir ji?" Also a Vaishnav. On 2016-07-15 at 11:29 AM, paapiman said: What about Srimaan Sheikh Baba Farid jee Maharaaj (another Bhagat) whose Bani is in SSGGSJM. He preached Islam to the people. Sheikh Farid ji is the only Muslim whose bani is recorded in Guru Granth Sahib. One of the reasons why it was recorded is because Guru Amardas ji did commentary on Sheikh Farid's poems. He responded to his poems with his own poems. So Sheikh Farid ji's bani, though excellent in its own right also provides context for the bani of Guru Amardas ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 16 hours ago, BhagatSingh said: He was a Vaishnav and Vaishnavs tend to gravitate towards being vegetarian. They tend to discourage meat-eating and slaughter. That is why Sadhna ji was facing a stigma for being a butcher because this profession was opposite to his religion. He was born in a Muslim family though. Where is the evidence that Bhagat Sadhna jee rejected Islam or Hazrat Muhammad saab as claimed by the guest? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 16 hours ago, BhagatSingh said: Also a Vaishnav. ਰਾਮ ਰਾਇ ਹੋਹਿ ਬੈਦ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥ No Muslim is gona speak these words, I'll tell you that much. A Muslim who has reached Brahamgyan can. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 8 hours ago, paapiman said: He was born in a Muslim family though. Where is the evidence that Bhagat Sadhna jee rejected Islam or Hazrat Muhammad saab as claimed by the guest? But you don't need to reject Islam to be a non-muslim. I neither reject Islam nor reject Prophet Mohammad nor reject the doctrine, but I am not a Muslim. I am not a Muslim because I don't follow the religion. I don't chant "Allah, Allah". I don't practice their tenets and ways of discipline. Sadhna ji was a Vaishnav. He was persecuted by Muslims for worshipping Shaligram. ਪ੍ਰਯਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਕਸਾਈ ਜਾਤੀ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਸਧਨਾ ਜੀ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਤੇ ਦੇਖ ਕਰ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਕੇ ਪਾਸ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੋਂ ਨੇ ਨਾਲਸ ਕਰੀ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਸਧਨਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਰ ਹਿੰਦੂਆਂ ਵਤ ਬੁਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਤੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਹੈ॥ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਸਰਾ ਮੈਂ ਹਾਨੀ ਕਰੀ ਹੈ ਤਬ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਜੀਓਂ ਕੇ ਕਹਣੇ ਸੇ ਸਧਨੇ ਕੋ ਬੁਲਾਇ ਕਰ ਬੁਰਜ ਮੈਂ ਚਿਣਨੇ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਦੀਆ ਜਬ ਸਧਨਾ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਬੁਰਜ ਮੈਂ ਚਿਣਤਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਕੰਠ ਤਕ ਚਿਣੇ ਗਏ ਤਬ ਪਰਮੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਾ ਧਿਆਨ ਕਰ ਉਪਾਲੰਭ ਸਹਿਤ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ 8 hours ago, paapiman said: A Muslim who has reached Brahamgyan can. A Muslim who has gyan isn't all of a sudden going to start worshipping Ram and chanting "Ram, Ram". Bhikhan ji's bani makes it clear that he is not a Muslim. A Muslim gyani know the difference between - 1. knowing that different religions including Vaishnav religions are all worshipping Allah in different names and 2. practicing those religions and worshipping those Gods and names A Muslim can understand that Ram Chandra ji is referring to Allah but he will continue to practice Islam. He will not chant "Ram, Ram" as his daily practice. Nam Dev ji was a Vaishnav. He knew Allah is another name of Vishnu in the Abhrahamic religions. He says - "Kareema Raheema, Allah too gani, hazra hazoor darvesh too mani" But when he was asked to chant the name of Allah (convert to Islam) by a powerful Sultan, he refused and said he would only chant the name of Vishnu. He was then tortured for that. Nam Dev ji had gyan and yet he made that distinction between - 1. knowing that different religions including Abrahamic religions are all worshipping Vishnu in different names and 2. practicing those religions and worshipping those Gods and names He still practiced his own religion. He stuck firmly to it even when he was going to be killed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 22 hours ago, BhagatSingh said: But you don't need to reject Islam to be a non-muslim. I neither reject Islam nor reject Prophet Mohammad nor reject the doctrine, but I am not a Muslim. I am not a Muslim because I don't follow the religion. I don't chant "Allah, Allah". I don't practice their tenets and ways of discipline. Sadhna ji was a Vaishnav. He was persecuted by Muslims for worshipping Shaligram. ਪ੍ਰਯਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਕਸਾਈ ਜਾਤੀ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਸਧਨਾ ਜੀ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਤੇ ਦੇਖ ਕਰ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਕੇ ਪਾਸ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੋਂ ਨੇ ਨਾਲਸ ਕਰੀ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਸਧਨਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਰ ਹਿੰਦੂਆਂ ਵਤ ਬੁਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਤੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਹੈ॥ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਸਰਾ ਮੈਂ ਹਾਨੀ ਕਰੀ ਹੈ ਤਬ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਜੀਓਂ ਕੇ ਕਹਣੇ ਸੇ ਸਧਨੇ ਕੋ ਬੁਲਾਇ ਕਰ ਬੁਰਜ ਮੈਂ ਚਿਣਨੇ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਦੀਆ ਜਬ ਸਧਨਾ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਬੁਰਜ ਮੈਂ ਚਿਣਤਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਕੰਠ ਤਕ ਚਿਣੇ ਗਏ ਤਬ ਪਰਮੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਾ ਧਿਆਨ ਕਰ ਉਪਾਲੰਭ ਸਹਿਤ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ A Muslim who has gyan isn't all of a sudden going to start worshipping Ram and chanting "Ram, Ram". Bhikhan ji's bani makes it clear that he is not a Muslim. A Muslim gyani know the difference between - 1. knowing that different religions including Vaishnav religions are all worshipping Allah in different names and 2. practicing those religions and worshipping those Gods and names A Muslim can understand that Ram Chandra ji is referring to Allah but he will continue to practice Islam. He will not chant "Ram, Ram" as his daily practice. Nam Dev ji was a Vaishnav. He knew Allah is another name of Vishnu in the Abhrahamic religions. He says - "Kareema Raheema, Allah too gani, hazra hazoor darvesh too mani" But when he was asked to chant the name of Allah (convert to Islam) by a powerful Sultan, he refused and said he would only chant the name of Vishnu. He was then tortured for that. Nam Dev ji had gyan and yet he made that distinction between - 1. knowing that different religions including Abrahamic religions are all worshipping Vishnu in different names and 2. practicing those religions and worshipping those Gods and names He still practiced his own religion. He stuck firmly to it even when he was going to be killed. Both, Bhagat Sadhna jee and Bhagat Bhikhan Shah jee were born in Muslim families. Bhagat Sadhan jee did become a Vaishnav later in his life. He was given trouble by both, Khajis and Brahmins. Please check the link below. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 5 hours ago, paapiman said: Both, Bhagat Sadhna jee and Bhagat Bhikhan Shah jee were born in Muslim families. Bhagat Sadhan jee did become a Vaishnav later in his life. Sadhna ji, Bhikhan ji and Kabir ji were all raised in a Muslim family. But they all became Vaishnav. They obtained naam daan from their gurus and they applied it and obtained Moksha Dwar. Bhikhan ji applied the Vaishnav practice of chanting Ram naam,and chanting Hari naam and through it he obtained moksha. In his poem, Bhikhan ji is talking about things like "Ram Chandra ji has become my doctor and that chanting name of Hari has become my medicine". Bhikhan ji says "I have found the gates of Moksha, through the help of my guru, (and through this practice of chanting Hari)". You don't hear Farid ji, who is a Muslim, talk about Ram naam and moksha etc like this. That's because this is Vaishnav talk, not Islamic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premi Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Dealing with meat, tobacco, prostitution/pornography, crime - all are just wrong! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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