Did humans actually evolve from apes (Darwin's theory of evolution) according to sikhism?

[paapiman]

3 hours ago, Kira said:

 There's nothing in Gurbani that contradicts evolution

Don't you think the above passage from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee is clearly contradicting a part of the Evolution theory?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Xylitol]

8 hours ago, Kira said:

Why are so many people against evolution? Does it trouble you that we didn't suddenly appear magically one day and it was a carefully thought out plan? There's nothing in Gurbani that contradicts evolution, Everything has a driving force and the driving force for evolution was always God.

 

 

current format of theory of evolution involves random chance leading us to the end result. It makes no sense and has no scientific evidence backing it up. Other versions of evolution involve the idea of a divine Will guiding evolution, this makes sense as Gurmat teaches that ALL is within His Hukam.

 

For a very thorough critique of the nastik version of the theory of evolution by a scientific mind, I refer you here: http://fredoneverything.org/darwin-unhinged-the-bugs-in-evolution/

[paapiman]

On 9/23/2016 at 11:39 PM, tva prasad said:

 If not what is the truth about human existence? Plz shed some light on this.

Bro, have a look at the topic below too. It is a bit related to this topic.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

On 9/30/2016 at 7:39 AM, paapiman said:

From Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee:

Quote

The Guru states -

“When the Formless God effected the expansion of the Universe by uttering a WORD, He created the Earth. At the onset He created the Matter of five elements (Maya), from it a most beautiful and powerful king named Kalsain (god Vishnu) emerged. The second king produced was Kalkait (god Brahma) and the third Koorrbaras (god Shiva). The Fourth was Kaldhuj (Mahavishnu), from Whom the whole creation emerged. God has thousands of beautiful eyes and thousands of lovely feet. He has enthroned Himself on the bed cushion of multi-headed Hydra Serpent and He is remembered by the people, the One seated on the coiled body of Hydra Serpent. God extracted wax from one of His ears, from which Madh and Kitab were produced. He then extracted wax from the other ear, from which this Universe was created. He then caused Madh and Kitab to be killed. Their body fluids were thrown into the ocean. The gluey and oily matter of their body fluids began to float on the surface of water and from thence onward the Creation was named after Madh. Those who perform good deeds in this Universe are remembered as godly persons, while the evil doers are called demons.” 
“pritham kal jub kara pasara, oankar tai sirast opara. Kal sain prithmai bhio bhoopa, adhik atul bal roop anoopa. (10) 
kal kait doosar bhoo bhio, koorbaras tisar jug thio.Kaldhuj. chathruth nirap soey, jeh tai bhio jagat sabh ko hai. (11) 
sehas rach ja ko subh sohai, sehes pad jakai tun mo hai. Sais nag par soeibo karai, jugthe saikh saey ochrai. (12) 
Aik sarvan tai mail nikara, tatai madh kitab tun dhara. Dutiya kan tai mail nikari, tatai bhei sirast eih sari. (13) 
tinko kal bohoar badh kara, tin ko maid smund mo para. Chiken tas jul par tir rehi, maida nam tabeh tai kehi. (14) 
Sadh karam jai purkh kamavai, nam daivata jagat kahavai. Kukirat karm jai jug meh karhi, nam asur tin tosabh dharhin. (15)”

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/sridasamgranthsahib/creation.html

 

Bhul chuk maaf

If anyone has heard an in-depth exegesis of the above passage, please do share the gained knowledge.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest rising]

we evolved from God. from his word. we are his conscious word dressed up in 5 elelemt maya.

That is what the dasam bani passage is describing.

[Guest Guest]

On 23 September 2016 at 8:39 PM, tva prasad said:

what does SGGSJM, various sikh scriptures, sikh scholars, brahmgianis (sant jarnail singh ji, sant gurbachan singh ji, etc.), etc. say about darwin's theory of evolution? Is it true? If not what is the truth about human existence? Plz shed some light on this.

Well,..,,,,there is a monkey god, snake god  and an elephant god...... , but humans evolved from stones and rocks.

[BhagatSingh]

On 2016-10-02 at 10:30 AM, Guest rising said:

we evolved from God. from his word. we are his conscious word dressed up in 5 elelemt maya.

That is what the dasam bani passage is describing.

Exactly. What science is describing is a material evolution, how matter evolves into moving machinery.
What Guru Sahib describes in Guru Granth Sahib is a spiritual evolution, how undifferentiated spirit evolves into lived experience.

To me it's both.

Evolution is how Hari created living things.

Whether the material evolution is through random chance or consciousness-driven evolution, Hari created chance so either way is good.

[LiquidSky]

I've stopped believing in Darwin's theory's. Animals would have still been evolving physically now if it was true. No common man has witnessed it happening. Only your mind evolves with the stresses of life. 

 

[LiquidSky]

On 25/09/2016 at 11:53 AM, paapiman said:

The story of Adam and Eve is also accepted in Sikhism.

Adam is Shivjee and Eve is Mata Parbhati jee. They are the same persons, but just known by different names by different people.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

If that was true. Where is it written about their original sin? Why hasn't there been any stories about them eating the forbidden fruit.

However there is another story about the world being flooded by water and Vishu had to take form in that time. 

This might have happened same time when Noah was asked by God to make a boat for the animals and his family to go in because there was sin in the world and his family were without sin. 

[tva prasad]

15 minutes ago, LiquidSky said:

I've stopped believing in Darwin's theory's. Animals would have still been evolving physically now if it was true. No common man has witnessed it happening. Only your mind evolves with the stresses of life. 

 

That is very true ji. i was just wondering if according to darwin's theory monkeys and apes had a common ancestor how come humans evolved more than monkeys did? how come monkeys haven't evolved like us? how com any other animal hasn't evolved into intelligent beings? 

[LiquidSky]

46 minutes ago, tva prasad said:

That is very true ji. i was just wondering if according to darwin's theory monkeys and apes had a common ancestor how come humans evolved more than monkeys did? how come monkeys haven't evolved like us? how com any other animal hasn't evolved into intelligent beings? 

I do believe animals are intelligent in their own way but their intelligences isn't the same as a human. Humans and animals can relate to each other on the grounds of empathy.

[tva prasad]

25 minutes ago, LiquidSky said:

I do believe animals are intelligent in their own way but their intelligences isn't the same as a human. Humans and animals can relate to each other on the grounds of empathy.

I 100% AGREE WITH U

[BhagatSingh]

10 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

I've stopped believing in Darwin's theory's. Animals would have still been evolving physically now if it was true. No common man has witnessed it happening. Only your mind evolves with the stresses of life.

They are still evolving. Darwin himself thought of evolution after observing finches on the Galapagos islands.

Today we see evolution happening all the time, with smaller organisms with short life-spans.

Second, though we can't run an experiment that will tell us how the dinosaur lineage radiated, we can study many aspects of evolution with controlled experiments in a laboratory setting. In organisms with short generation times (e.g., bacteria or fruit flies), we can actually observe evolution in action over the course of an experiment. And in some cases, biologists have observed evolution occurring in the wild.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#e1

See this link to clarify misconceptions about evolution.

9 hours ago, tva prasad said:

That is very true ji. i was just wondering if according to darwin's theory monkeys and apes had a common ancestor how come humans evolved more than monkeys did? how come monkeys haven't evolved like us? how com any other animal hasn't evolved into intelligent beings? 

Humans didn't evolve "more than" other great apes. We evolved differently than other great apes.

It is ahankar that makes one think that they are superior to another.

So this -

9 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

I do believe animals are intelligent in their own way but their intelligences isn't the same as a human. Humans and animals can relate to each other on the grounds of empathy.

I agree with you here.

[tva prasad]

Just now, BhagatSingh said:

 

 

Humans didn't evolve "more than" other great apes. We evolved differently than other great apes.

It is ahankar that makes one think that they are superior to another.

i 100 percent agree with u bro. I think i was a bit unclear in my post. Anyway thanx 4 the correction bro.

[BhagatSingh]

18 minutes ago, tva prasad said:

i 100 percent agree with u bro. I think i was a bit unclear in my post. Anyway thanx 4 the correction bro.

Evolution just means change. Things change over time in different ways.

Life itself is change.

Evolution is the name given to the changing living organisms.

[WakeUp]

On 2016-10-02 at 11:11 AM, paapiman said:

If anyone has heard an in-depth exegesis of the above passage, please do share the gained knowledge.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

The above you referenced is not literal. Most every religion speaks of creation of the Universe being initiated by a word. This is true, base of creation is vibration. Sound is only one part of the spectrum of vibration as is heat, radiation, electromagnetic, light, microwave, and... at the far end from sound, thought. Even matter is just energy at a slow rate of vibration so it manifests into something tangible. Where the metaphor comes is, nothing including your own body are real. Scientists say that it's a miracle that every solid thing in existence is 99.9999% empty space so why don't we fall through a chair? The reference to Vishnu etc are not speaking of literal material entities but they represent various aspects of creation. 

Also remember time is part of the creation and there only exists now. Past and future are illusions. Try to define now. You can't pinpoint an exact 'now' because if you try, you automatically give it a start and finish, but now is not a set point in time. Rather its just the wave front moving through something else. Like a video game saved on a hard drive. You might say the illusion of time is the game start to finish but looking at the hard drive you see it's just a hard drive with everything the entire game sitting there all at once. It's only your perspective of playing it when you live the illusion of time. The 'now' would basically be where the hard drive heads are reading and they are constantly moving so you can't say now is this point to this point. There is no 'now' in reality. There is just 'all'. 

So evolution is really not the evolution of matter as from Waheguru perspective everything exists all at once. Where evolution comes in is the experience of jumping into the game. The experience of unfolding consciousness and awakening to self. The game itself is becoming self aware. That's why life becomes more complex. As mineral and plant there is a dreamlike state. As animal only instincticual awareness but more aware of surroundings. As human Creator can finally ask the important question of who am I. 

We are just the costumes. But the awareness behind us all is God. When a human awakens to reality is not a human waking up, it's God waking up in human form. 

The 'word' is conscious thought, or intent. The evolution is the awakening to self awareness. 

 

[paapiman]

On 10/23/2016 at 6:03 PM, LiquidSky said:

If that was true. Where is it written about their original sin? Why hasn't there been any stories about them eating the forbidden fruit.

Maybe there is such a story out there in the Puranas.

Excellent question though.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[opal]

On 24/10/2016 at 5:53 AM, WakeUp said:

The Scientists say that it's a miracle that every solid thing in existence is 99.9999% empty space so why don't we fall through a chair?

You can't pinpoint an exact 'now' because if you try, you automatically give it a start and finish, but now is not a set point in time. Rather its just the wave front moving through something else. 

 

We can't because our vibrational frequencies are different. Of course, we can pinpoint the present moment by becoming aware of it.  Our awareness is also composed of energy, operating at a different frequency.  Pure awareness is energy which travels at the speed of light. Scattered thoughts dissipitate energy, once focused, we capture the present moment. It is magical. The present moment is also energy moving at a different and very, very subtle frequency. We can only capture it by aligning ourselves with it. We can do so by becoming aware  and focussing our energy on it.  We have to 'tune in' with this wonderful energy, so to speak, in order to establish it. We experience the present moment, when our energies are aligned and tuned in.  It is our present moment that lays the foundations for our next stage of evolution. So, don't let it go wasted, neglected or ignored. Try to capture it by becoming aware of it.

[BhagatSingh]

2 minutes ago, opal said:

We can't because our vibrational frequencies are different. Of course, we can pinpoint the present moment by becoming aware of it.  Our awareness is also composed of energy, operating at a different frequency.  Pure awareness is energy which travels at the speed of light. Scattered thoughts dissipitate energy, once focused, we capture the present moment. It is magical. The present moment is also energy moving at a different and very subtle frequency. We can only capture it by aligning ourselves with it. We can do so by becoming aware and focused with our own energy.  We have to 'tune in' with this wonderful energy, so to speak, in order to establish it.  It is our present moment that lays the foundations for our next stage of evolution. So, don't let it go wasted, capture it. 

Known as Adi Shakti!

[WakeUp]

2 minutes ago, opal said:

We can't because our vibrational frequencies are different. Of course, we can pinpoint the present moment by becoming aware of it.  Our awareness is also composed of energy, operating at a different frequency.  Pure awareness is energy which travels at the speed of light. Scattered thoughts dissipitate energy, once focused, we capture the present moment. It is magical. The present moment is also energy moving at a different and very subtle frequency. We can only capture it by aligning ourselves with it. We can do so by becoming aware and focused with our own energy.  We have to 'tune in' with this wonderful energy, so to speak, in order to establish it.  It is our present moment that lays the foundations for our next stage of evolution. So, don't let it go wasted, neglected or ignored. Try to capture it by becoming aware of it.

You are not getting what I meant I don't think. You can't define now as being a set point in time there is no start or end to it. It's not in and of itself anything tangible. It's only an ever moving wavefront through something else. Like the heads on the hard drive analogy. Past and future are the stored information and now is just the point where the hard drive heads are but it's only perceptible if the heads are constantly moving meaning now is not a set point and cannot be defined at any given moment. It's an illusion. And it's not necessarily linear. Look at theories about what happens to time from perspective of a black hole or even closer to our sun. Gravity affects it. Therefore it's just another aspect of material reality which we can surpass. The feeling of future and past are also illusions as I said they are more like stored information on the disk. And they are not linear they just 'are'. They only become part of the linear experience of time when immersed in the game stored on the disk. A book is another good example sitting on the table in front of you it contains all of the story start to finish. It's only when you read it that you become aware of any timeline but in reality all of the story exists at once. Now would be where in the story you are but since it's ever changing you can never define a set point as being 'now'. Google holographic Universe theory. 

 

[opal]

I see what you mean now.

[opal]

8 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Known as Adi Shakti!

Nice image.

[BhagatSingh]

1 hour ago, opal said:

I see what you mean now.

-_-

I got my popcorn ready for nothing.

Don't "I see what you mean now" him. He's saying that everything, including energy, arose from consciousness - Vishnu - and it is all basically awareness unfolding in forms. Throw some arguments back with your philosophy on Shakti - how everything is energy, how even consciousness is born of energy.

 

[opal]

I never thought energy meant 'shakti' to be honest. The word 'shakti' sounds much nicer than the word 'energy' but never occurred to me ever. Some people refer to God as Vishnu. God is energy/Shakti.  In my view, there will be no consciousness without God or shakti! Everything receives its consciousness from the Source. I am not sure if I am making any sense.

One more thing, our past is recorded in the Akashic records and can be accessed if we know how to. Some people can see the future with clairvoyance.  It is just a matter of how spiritually developed or advance a soul is.

[WakeUp]

41 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

-_-

I got my popcorn ready for nothing.

Don't "I see what you mean now" him. He's saying that everything, including energy, arose from consciousness - Vishnu - and it is all basically awareness unfolding in forms. Throw some arguments back with your philosophy on Shakti - how everything is energy, how even consciousness is born of energy.

 

Exactly time only exists because there is a conscious observer. In fact matter only exists because there is a conscious observer.