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paapiman

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9 hours ago, Tina Kaur Bains said:

Obviously you need to increase your theology knowledge on ISM - HindiuISM, SikhISM, BuddhISM (funny the abhramic religions are not embedded with ISM).

Nobody is meddling. Its about seeking the truth. The truth of where roots go to.

Not just believe what your told with no subjective open mind and heart. Without questioning and truly knowing, you become yet another sheep. Blind leading Blind.

 

 

The minute you engage your mind with doubts, suspicions, quiz, interrogation or probe with the intention to scrutinise your faith, you have lost your game!  In fact, your motivation to question something so deep and spiritual signifies your impatience towards what you are searching for! You are honestly and truly playing a losing game because God can only be fathomed, if it is possible to do so, by walking the Path with one focused mind.  If you dither, you fall. Vacillation is a strong sign of lack of faith. Let's not bicker about,'isms and -tianity'  they are mere words and mean one thing to one person and another to another. God is deep Silence  without any words! This Silence exists deep within us and does not require man made phrases or terminology to express it. 

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Guest Wake Up

 

 

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

Why is there a mention of Ravan, Ram Chandar jee, Sita jee, etc, in Gurbani?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

They are never mentioned in way to revere but used to illustrate points. Further the use of word raam is no referring to ram Chandar Hindu diety and as you will see is actually spoken against. 

There is mention of God’s name Raam in Guru Granth Sahib as well as Brahm, Waheguru, Sahib and others but they directly imply to God not to any person. God’s name “Raam” in Gurbani is not as same as Hindu Lord “Rama”. Guru Ji never accepted him as a God because he was a human being. Before he was born there existed God’s name “Raam”. There was a saint named Valmick who used to be a thief. One day he met a group of saints and he requested them to lead him on the right path so those saints gave him the name “Raam†to meditate upon. According to Hinduism it was Valmick who wrote Ramayana 10,000 years before Rama was born. This means that there existed God’s name ‘Raam’ before Hindu lord Rama was born. God’s name was Raam and when Rama was born his father named him after God’s name. In Sikhi God’s name revealed by Guru Ji is “Waheguru”. So if you name your son “Waheguru Singh” this doesn’t make him God at all. He stays a human being. Therefore hindu lord Rama was not a god but a mere human being.

Now let’s investigate the truth behind this “God†Rama. Rama, son of King Dasrath and brother of Lachman was married to Sita. He had to leave his kingdom for 14 years and live in exile.

A Warrior?

When Rama was exiled, he shot a king named Bali from behind and killed him. What a coward? What kind of bravery is that? Why would God attack someone from behind? This was a complete betrayal by Rama in the battle field. When Rama started fighting with Ravana to get his wife back his brother Lacchman passed out. He started crying and told Hanuman (a monkey God) that if his brother dies he will die with him by committing suicide. The truth is NO brave man ever cries in the battle field. This shows that Rama lost himself in the battle field which shows weakness of mind and heart. According to Hindu historians, Rama was helped by all the gods and goddesses in the battlefield. What kind of a God needs help in the battlefield? Skipping ahead, Rama wins the battle, gets his wife back and returns to his kingdom. Someone who attacks from behind, cries in the battle field, tries to commit suicide can never be called a brave warrior. Only weak minded cowards have these characteristics.

A Great King?

In the kingdom of Rama practice of Sati, burning of the widow with her dead husband was widely accepted. Sacrifice of horse, cow and even human being was considered a religious ritual. Lower caste people and women were looked upon as inferior. A Shudra named Shambhook (a lower caste) was killed by Rama just because he started worshipping God through meditation. This proves that Rama failed to be a true king because he had no understanding of fair justice.

A Good Husband?

According to Balmick Ramayana, One day Rama listened to a washer man saying that Rama’s wife was kidnapped and stayed with a kidnapper for a year and therefore she became impure. On hearing this Rama quickly went back to his palace and kicked his wife Sita out of his kingdom while she was pregnant with his baby. Now let me ask you, is this what God does?? The answer is NO. This clearly proves that he was not a God rather just a simple human being. He fought for his wife for a year and then suddenly listening to some washer man he kicked her out when she was pregnant. He didn’t even trust his wife. Sita had to stay in jungles and live a poor life while her husband stayed in palaces enjoying his life.

Even Ravana was better than Rama. When Ravana kidnapped Sita, he kept her in a separate palace. There exists no account of Ravana trying to disrespect Sita in any way. He always persuaded her to marry him but other than that she was not tortured or raped. On the other hand, Rama and his brother Lachman not only lied to Ravana’s sister Sroopnekha but also disrespected her by cutting off her nose.

A coward, liar and a deceitful person like Rama who was not even a good king, a brave warrior and a good husband cannot be given the status of an Avatar. Someone like him does not even deserve to be praised by a regular human being and RSS is trying to mislead Sikhs into thinking that he is praised by our Guru Sahibans in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Rama preached no new or unique message to humanity and wrote no religious book. Instead he followed Brahmins in jungles begging from house to house and followed everything that was being practiced back then. His contribution to humanity and society is of no value. It is clear from this discussion that God’s name ‘Raam’ is very different from hindu lord Rama.

Many hindus compare Guru Gobind Singh Ji with Rama but it is only foolish to do such thing. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a great warrior who always faced the enemy and never attacked from behind. His message inspired thousands of weak and defenseless people to become fearless warriors. He started the freedom movement that ended tyrant rules of Mughals, Pathans and British. He gave equal rights to women and embraced everyone regardless of caste. He renounced all of the old rituals and gave new way of life to people. He started a new nation that would uphold the Dharma, and fight for truth and justice. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought for humanity and truth. He sacrificed His father, mother and four sons but never shed a single drop of tear. Instead, He celebrated their martyrdom. Hindu lord Rama is no where near the greatest of all Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Rama failed to be a loyal and a faithful husband, a wise king who would treat everyone equally, and a true warrior. He possessed no quality that can be compared to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Guru Ji embraced everyone whereas Rama abandoned his own wife then how do people expect that he will embrace them? Only Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the greatest. Rama, Krishna and all others seek dust of feet of Guru Ji.


“Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives. Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream.”
(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1429)

This shows that Guru Ji considered Rama and Rawana as regular humans. Guru Ji saw them both as one. So this means that Hindu lord Rama is not God.


“O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.”
(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 464)

God’s name “Raam” in Guru Granth Sahib does not refer to Hinduism because this name existed thousands years before Hindu lord Rama was born. God’s name is Waheguru in Sikhi as it is “God” in English. Every name mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji which pertains to God is written in a way to signify characteristic of God and these names should never be associated with any human being or deity.

“Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord’s Name, ‘Raam’. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190|| Kabeer, use the word ‘Raam’, only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. One ‘Raam’ is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1374)

 

 

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On 10/17/2016 at 0:07 PM, jaikaara said:

Akaal !

As my ancestors were Rajputs i am familiar with this culture, the Shastars are worshipped by men and women alike  . Amongst the Kshatriya class the women too participate in Shastar pooja and there are cultural dances these days held in public too wherein the women too show their prowess .

Thiis is also visible in the tribal culture where dance is an important part of many rituals . Also, in the olden days most Rajputs would worship the Sword as Bhawaani or Chandi and not the idol. I cam across a royal family of Gujarat who still worship just the sword. I remember my dad staring at me with anger when i would unsheath my Sri Sahib with friends around to do a show off . He had explained me time and again to not draw the Sri Sahib without a reason and if drawn to not place it back without offering blood.

The Khanda is a very ancient shape of the Sword and has been revered since ages. The Khanda is also address as Bapuji and in Guru Gobindsingh ji 's Chandi di Vaar Bani this is mentioned as Khanda Prithamai Saajke ..I am giving you this reference although it is not related to the question but it proves false the claim of the neo sikhism believers that there is no connection with anything . Many ancient temples have the Khanda carved in caves held by the Chandi.

I am pretty sure the video you have seen is posted by the Rajputs of Gujarat or Rajasthan. You can share the link here if you wish.

 

WJKK WJKF 

Thank you veerji for sharing. Hanji - absolutely spot on. I went to ask the video sharer source and like you state the women is of the Rajput Clan (north India). Dress of women and the men in rajashatani style turbans also denoted north India. However, Puja to Durga Ma (aka Kala Ma) is done a lot in south India (as my parents told me). Hence why I was baffled a bit.

Agree totally on neo sikhism trying to hijack. When there are unparallel eternal references all over  - one of which you clearly share on Khanda carvings in Chandi caves and of course shaastra Puja which have been used for centuries across india and other countries.

Beauty being that a Sikh - can till this day carry a shaastra as a form of kirpa. I don not know of any other culture/religion in present day that does so with such humility.

Veerji - do you know about Dharamsalas - and if any exist in the world today ?

Deeply. Thank you. 

WJKK WJKF

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51 minutes ago, Tina Kaur Bains said:

WJKK WJKF

Veerji - do you know about Dharamsalas - and if any exist in the world today ?

However, Puja to Durga Ma (aka Kala Ma) is done a lot in south India (as my parents told me). Hence why I was baffled a bit.

Deeply. Thank you. 

WJKK WJKF

Akaal ji..they do exist atleast the Nirmala sampradaay i believe have Dharamshalas still active ..Let me find out more for you, you can remind me if i forget to get back to you ..the South too has Bhagwati Worship ...why only south india even Europe has had Goddesses in the Pagan religions and of what i remember i was told by the Singh who got saheed Nihang JOdhbir singh of Switzerland they have a Goddess very similiar to Kali Mayi

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On 17 October 2016 at 10:48 AM, Guest Wake Up said:

 

 

They are never mentioned in way to revere but used to illustrate points. Further the use of word raam is no referring to ram Chandar Hindu diety and as you will see is actually spoken against. 

There is mention of God’s name Raam in Guru Granth Sahib as well as Brahm, Waheguru, Sahib and others but they directly imply to God not to any person. God’s name “Raam” in Gurbani is not as same as Hindu Lord “Rama”. Guru Ji never accepted him as a God because he was a human being. Before he was born there existed God’s name “Raam”. There was a saint named Valmick who used to be a thief. One day he met a group of saints and he requested them to lead him on the right path so those saints gave him the name “Raam†to meditate upon. According to Hinduism it was Valmick who wrote Ramayana 10,000 years before Rama was born. This means that there existed God’s name ‘Raam’ before Hindu lord Rama was born. God’s name was Raam and when Rama was born his father named him after God’s name. In Sikhi God’s name revealed by Guru Ji is “Waheguru”. So if you name your son “Waheguru Singh” this doesn’t make him God at all. He stays a human being. Therefore hindu lord Rama was not a god but a mere human being.

Now let’s investigate the truth behind this “God†Rama. Rama, son of King Dasrath and brother of Lachman was married to Sita. He had to leave his kingdom for 14 years and live in exile.

A Warrior?

When Rama was exiled, he shot a king named Bali from behind and killed him. What a coward? What kind of bravery is that? Why would God attack someone from behind? This was a complete betrayal by Rama in the battle field. When Rama started fighting with Ravana to get his wife back his brother Lacchman passed out. He started crying and told Hanuman (a monkey God) that if his brother dies he will die with him by committing suicide. The truth is NO brave man ever cries in the battle field. This shows that Rama lost himself in the battle field which shows weakness of mind and heart. According to Hindu historians, Rama was helped by all the gods and goddesses in the battlefield. What kind of a God needs help in the battlefield? Skipping ahead, Rama wins the battle, gets his wife back and returns to his kingdom. Someone who attacks from behind, cries in the battle field, tries to commit suicide can never be called a brave warrior. Only weak minded cowards have these characteristics.

A Great King?

In the kingdom of Rama practice of Sati, burning of the widow with her dead husband was widely accepted. Sacrifice of horse, cow and even human being was considered a religious ritual. Lower caste people and women were looked upon as inferior. A Shudra named Shambhook (a lower caste) was killed by Rama just because he started worshipping God through meditation. This proves that Rama failed to be a true king because he had no understanding of fair justice.

A Good Husband?

According to Balmick Ramayana, One day Rama listened to a washer man saying that Rama’s wife was kidnapped and stayed with a kidnapper for a year and therefore she became impure. On hearing this Rama quickly went back to his palace and kicked his wife Sita out of his kingdom while she was pregnant with his baby. Now let me ask you, is this what God does?? The answer is NO. This clearly proves that he was not a God rather just a simple human being. He fought for his wife for a year and then suddenly listening to some washer man he kicked her out when she was pregnant. He didn’t even trust his wife. Sita had to stay in jungles and live a poor life while her husband stayed in palaces enjoying his life.

Even Ravana was better than Rama. When Ravana kidnapped Sita, he kept her in a separate palace. There exists no account of Ravana trying to disrespect Sita in any way. He always persuaded her to marry him but other than that she was not tortured or raped. On the other hand, Rama and his brother Lachman not only lied to Ravana’s sister Sroopnekha but also disrespected her by cutting off her nose.

A coward, liar and a deceitful person like Rama who was not even a good king, a brave warrior and a good husband cannot be given the status of an Avatar. Someone like him does not even deserve to be praised by a regular human being and RSS is trying to mislead Sikhs into thinking that he is praised by our Guru Sahibans in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Rama preached no new or unique message to humanity and wrote no religious book. Instead he followed Brahmins in jungles begging from house to house and followed everything that was being practiced back then. His contribution to humanity and society is of no value. It is clear from this discussion that God’s name ‘Raam’ is very different from hindu lord Rama.

Many hindus compare Guru Gobind Singh Ji with Rama but it is only foolish to do such thing. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a great warrior who always faced the enemy and never attacked from behind. His message inspired thousands of weak and defenseless people to become fearless warriors. He started the freedom movement that ended tyrant rules of Mughals, Pathans and British. He gave equal rights to women and embraced everyone regardless of caste. He renounced all of the old rituals and gave new way of life to people. He started a new nation that would uphold the Dharma, and fight for truth and justice. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought for humanity and truth. He sacrificed His father, mother and four sons but never shed a single drop of tear. Instead, He celebrated their martyrdom. Hindu lord Rama is no where near the greatest of all Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Rama failed to be a loyal and a faithful husband, a wise king who would treat everyone equally, and a true warrior. He possessed no quality that can be compared to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Guru Ji embraced everyone whereas Rama abandoned his own wife then how do people expect that he will embrace them? Only Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the greatest. Rama, Krishna and all others seek dust of feet of Guru Ji.


“Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives. Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream.”
(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1429)

This shows that Guru Ji considered Rama and Rawana as regular humans. Guru Ji saw them both as one. So this means that Hindu lord Rama is not God.


“O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.”
(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 464)

God’s name “Raam” in Guru Granth Sahib does not refer to Hinduism because this name existed thousands years before Hindu lord Rama was born. God’s name is Waheguru in Sikhi as it is “God” in English. Every name mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji which pertains to God is written in a way to signify characteristic of God and these names should never be associated with any human being or deity.

“Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord’s Name, ‘Raam’. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190|| Kabeer, use the word ‘Raam’, only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. One ‘Raam’ is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||”
(Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1374)

 

 

Absolutely, Sikhism has nothing to do with ram chander, laxman, sita, hanuman or lanka! Hindu gods or goddesses have no role to play in Sikhism or the Sikh way of worship?  Thank heavens for that!  Sikhs are not Hindus, full stop. And, thank heavens for that too! Sikhism is a straight forward religion; believes in One God ONLY. Sikh Gurus taught us to stay away from the superstitious, ritualistic chaotic, idol worshipping hindu religion. What makes them think as Sikhs,  we would revere or worship the hindu lifeless idols or deities? They are so scary looking. We don't observe any of their festivals either. They are all bogus!

 

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Guest Goody2shoes
On 17 October 2016 at 5:43 AM, paapiman said:

Why is there a mention of Ravan, Ram Chandar jee, Sita jee, etc, in Gurbani?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

The Gurbani mentions many Bhagats too but Sikhs don't worship them. We have 10 Gurus and the 11th is the SGGS. We worship Waheyguru. Ours is a monotheistic religion (believes in Waheguru) as opposed to the polytheistic Hindu religion which believes in multitudinous and varied gods and goddesses.

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14 hours ago, Guest Goody2shoes said:

The Gurbani mentions many Bhagats too but Sikhs don't worship them. We have 10 Gurus and the 11th is the SGGS. We worship Waheyguru. Ours is a monotheistic religion (believes in Waheguru) as opposed to the polytheistic Hindu religion which believes in multitudinous and varied gods and goddesses.

When did Daas say that we should worship Sri Ram Chandar jee? Sikhs are suppose to respect Sri Ram Chandar jee as a great personality. Even a Sikh kid knows that we only worship one Almighty Lord, Waheguru.

Not all Hindu schools of thought are polytheistic. There is a concept of one universal God in Vedas.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 17 October 2016 at 4:50 AM, Guest Boo! said:

The minute you engage your mind with doubts, suspicions, quiz, interrogation or probe with the intention to scrutinise your faith, you have lost your game!  In fact, your motivation to question something so deep and spiritual signifies your impatience towards what you are searching for! You are honestly and truly playing a losing game because God can only be fathomed, if it is possible to do so, by walking the Path with one focused mind.  If you dither, you fall. Vacillation is a strong sign of lack of faith. Let's not bicker about,'isms and -tianity'  they are mere words and mean one thing to one person and another to another. God is deep Silence  without any words! This Silence exists deep within us and does not require man made phrases or terminology to express it. 

Spot on!  This is the only way to heavens, hallelujah!!  Do indoos believe in one God as well? No. They believe in too many. If they believed in only one God, what did they call it? They don't seem to have a name for it! 

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58 minutes ago, opal said:

pot on!  This is the only way to heavens, hallelujah!!  Do indoos believe in one God as well? No. They believe in too many. If they believed in only one God, what did they call it? They don't seem to have a name for it! 

Funny that - Islam also believes in one God and they believe Halleujah spelt backwards are angels actually singing Allah Hu. Vedic teachings also believed in one God - I havent read the vedic scriptures but know Pandits that have and agree Hindus believe in One God - the concept of idol worship came much later as divisions in Hindu scriptures begun post Vedas. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/18/2016 at 2:56 PM, jaikaara said:

Akaal ji..they do exist atleast the Nirmala sampradaay i believe have Dharamshalas still active ..Let me find out more for you, you can remind me if i forget to get back to you ..the South too has Bhagwati Worship ...why only south india even Europe has had Goddesses in the Pagan religions and of what i remember i was told by the Singh who got saheed Nihang JOdhbir singh of Switzerland they have a Goddess very similiar to Kali Mayi

@jaikaara Veerji - is there any links of locations of DharamSalas that can be shared ?

(I want to get a one ticket to there :-)

WJKK WJKK

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On 11/12/2016 at 5:30 AM, Tina Kaur Bains said:

@jaikaara Veerji - is there any links of locations of DharamSalas that can be shared ?

(I want to get a one ticket to there :-)

WJKK WJKK

 

haan ji pehen ji jarrur ...there is one in Rishikesh that i know off my head and i happened to have darsan of one of the Sants there. I was foolish enough to have not interacted with haume in my head that i dont need any Dehdhaari Babas to teach me .

http://www.nirmalashram.com/history.php

 

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