Help me understand this Gurbani Pankti!

[Ragmaala]

 

ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥

ਗਉੜੀ ਚੇਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਅਵਰਿ ਪੰਚ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ਕਿਉ ਰਾਖਉ ਘਰ ਬਾਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਲੂਟਹਿ ਨੀਤ ਨੀਤ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰੀ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਜਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਚਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਜਮ ਦਲੁ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਘਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਅਵਰਿ ਲੁਟੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੨॥ ਢਾਹਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਲੂਟਿਆ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਪਕੜੀ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ॥ ਜਮ ਡੰਡਾ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਪੜਿਆ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੩॥ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਬਾਧਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੪॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 155}

What to understand from this Gurbani tuk ?

 

 

[amardeep]

From the beginning it talks about the soul, body, senses and how they are affected by the five vices that leads each of them astray. After a whole life time of indulging in life (by submitting to the five vices) one experiences death. Your verse is the final one attached to the Nanak name which 'sums' up the entire content. It basically says we waste our life indulging in what we should not indulge in.

[paapiman]

On 3/1/2017 at 0:09 PM, Ragmaala said:

 

ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥

ਗਉੜੀ ਚੇਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਅਵਰਿ ਪੰਚ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ਕਿਉ ਰਾਖਉ ਘਰ ਬਾਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਲੂਟਹਿ ਨੀਤ ਨੀਤ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰੀ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਜਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਚਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਜਮ ਦਲੁ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਘਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਅਵਰਿ ਲੁਟੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੨॥ ਢਾਹਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਲੂਟਿਆ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਪਕੜੀ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ॥ ਜਮ ਡੰਡਾ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਪੜਿਆ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੩॥ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਬਾਧਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੪॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 155}

What to understand from this Gurbani tuk ?

 

 

Akhree arth is pretty simple, which you probably already know.

A woman desires gold and silver (essentially wealth) from a man, while friends are looking forward to free food and other treats. For these people (wife and friends), a man indulges in sinful activities, but in the end he is send to Jampuri.

This tuk definitely has an anthriv arth. ਕਾਮਣਿ probably refers to the soul or the mind.

Does anyone know what ਸੁਇਨਾ and ਰੁਪਾ refer to metaphorically?

 

Bhul chul maaf

[mrhsinghk]

I have found the katha of this Gurbani Ang by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, Bhai Avtar Singh and Gyani Thakur Singh. I haven't had a chance to listen to it but its on the same Ang 155 so should help.

Here is the links 

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Bhai_Avtar_Singh_(Badni_Kalan_wale)/Katha_Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji/CD_05/11--Bhai.Avtar.Singh--Katha.Guru.Granth.Sahib.Ji--Ang.155%2CLine.10.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Bhai_Avtar_Singh_(Badni_Kalan_wale)/Katha_Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji/CD_05/12--Bhai.Avtar.Singh--Katha.Guru.Granth.Sahib.Ji--Ang.155%2CLine.16.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_03_Ang_0151-0249/05--Sant.Gurbachan.Singh.(Bhindran.wale)--Raag.Gourhi--Ang.155.mp3

http://gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/13-Giani Thakur Singh Ji (Patiala Wale)/Katha Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/CD04(Ang0140-0202)/0263-Ang-0155-Pankti-10.mp3

[Ragmaala]

@mrhsinghk

Thanks, I listened to all three links. The katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh ji was in great depth. If anyone is interested, at 11:34 he gives the analogy of how Namdhari Baba Ram Singh was betrayed by his 5 garvayi kooke, similarly the jeev roop istri is also betrayed by the 5 doots at time of death,

I guess I wanted to determine if it is in the psyche of wife to ask for money/gold only...and nothing beyond that.

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

This tuk definitely has an anthriv arth. ਕਾਮਣਿ probably refers to the soul or the mind.

Does anyone know what ਸੁਇਨਾ and ਰੁਪਾ refer to metaphorically?

Sant Gurbachan Singh ji did atleast 4 arths for the beginning panktis, but for this one he just said that istri wants gold & silver, and so called friends want to be fed with meat, alcohol etc,

Giani AVtar Singh said jeev roop istri wants gold & silver, which does not make sense.

Another question I have is, are the 5 doots real entities like jamdoots ?   @Lucky

[paapiman]

Kaamdev (Cupid) is a real entity. He is connected to Kaam (lust).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamadeva 

Rudar (Shivjee) is the Lord of anger.

So, these Vikars are definitely connected to physical entities.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Ragmaala said:

Giani AVtar Singh said jeev roop istri wants gold & silver, which does not make sense.

Why is that? Gyani jee was probably indicating that jeev roop istri (whether male or female) desires gold and silver in this life.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Ragmaala]

55 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Why is that? Gyani jee was probably indicating that jeev roop istri (whether male or female) desires gold and silver in this life.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Nvm I see what he meant

[Lucky]

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

A woman desires gold and silver (essentially wealth) from a man, while friends are looking forward to free food and other treats. For these people (wife and friends), a man indulges in sinful activities, but in the end he is send to Jampuri

Not quite, It's a little more than that!

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

ਕਾਮਣਿ probably refers to the soul or the mind.

Does anyone know what ਸੁਇਨਾ and ਰੁਪਾ refer to metaphorically?

Good points. The meaning of Kaman(wife) in contrast to soul bride from the "sa dhan pakhri jek jana" pangti, is quite fundamental to my understanding.

 

9 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

but for this one he just said that istri wants gold & silver, and so called friends want to be fed with meat, alcohol etc,

don't be fooled into assuming that senses and pleasures is just referring to consuming paaps. 

Quote

Another question I have is, are the 5 doots real entities like jamdoots ?

That has a very deep and complicated answer from what I imagine. "Complicated" ...as in trying to understand it. It can vary slightly but I believe there are two instances when you can see the 5 dhoots walk/run away from you. It's at the point when you are free, that It becomes clear, that the 5 were clinging on to you all along. 

When I get a chance later, I will work through line by line with my understanding of this shabad and try explain at places. I hope you find it helpful.

[paapiman]

On 3/3/2017 at 4:36 PM, paapiman said:

Akhree arth is pretty simple

Correction - One of the Akhree arths is pretty simple.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:11 PM, paapiman said:

Kaamdev (Cupid) is a real entity. He is connected to Kaam (lust).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamadeva 

Rudar (Shivjee) is the Lord of anger.

So, these Vikars are definitely connected to physical entities.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

In addition to the above, demi-Gods reside in our body as per the Gurbani tuk - "Jo Brahamanday Soi Pinde"

Saraswati jee resides on our tongue

Indar devta is in our hands.

And so on. If someone can expand more on this (maybe in a separate topic), that would be great.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[mrhsinghk]

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

In addition to the above, demi-Gods reside in our body as per the Gurbani tuk - "Jo Brahamanday Soi Pinde"

Saraswati jee resides on our tongue

Indar devta is in our hands.

And so on. If someone can expand more on this (maybe in a separate topic), that would be great.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

Veer Ji it has been discussed on this link http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,27048,27056

And it is on Ang 695 Bhagat Bani. So here is the katha link by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and Gyani Avtar Singh

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_08_Ang_0660-0761/032--Sant.Gurbachan.Singh.(Bhindran.wale)--Raag.Dhanaasri--Ang-695.(Bhagat.Bani).mp3

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/11-Giani Avtar Singh Ji/Katha Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee/CD014 (Ang 0643-0704)/56 - Page 695%2C Line 05.mp3

[Lucky]

ANG 155

ਗਉੜੀ ਚੇਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

Gourree Chaethee Mehalaa 1 ||

ਅਵਰਿ ਪੰਚ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ਕਿਉ ਰਾਖਉ ਘਰ ਬਾਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥
Avar Panch Ham Eaek Janaa Kio Raakho Ghar Baar Manaa ||
There are five of them, but I am all alone. How can I protect my hearth and home, O my mind?

ਮਾਰਹਿ ਲੂਟਹਿ ਨੀਤ ਨੀਤ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰੀ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਜਨਾ ॥੧॥
Maarehi Loottehi Neeth Neeth Kis Aagai Karee Pukaar Janaa ||1||
They are beating and plundering me over and over again; unto whom can I complain? ||1||
 

There are five Avar panch (Kaam, krodh,  lobh, moh ,Ahankaar), and me, I’m on my own. 

How do I protect my Ghar Baar? In this context, Ghar refers to the house of the Mind-which is in the body, behind eyes.

“Baar”, I think translates to gate/entrance of your house.

Mind is always looking for its home, but is continuously beaten and plundered by the five. The five do everything to stop mind settling and locking itself in it’s home.  

“Kis aagai kari pukaar”, Who can I report them to, who can I ask to sort them?

This is the question by the mind and for the mind. Understand that the Mind itself is addressing its very own shortcomings and the symptoms from being beaten by the 5 dhoots.

 

The answer follows…….

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਚਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥
Sree Raam Naamaa Ouchar Manaa ||
Chant the Name of the Supreme Lord, O my mind.
 

ਆਗੈ ਜਮ ਦਲੁ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਘਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Aagai Jam Dhal Bikham Ghanaa ||1|| Rehaao ||
Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will have to face the awesome and cruel army of Death. ||1||Pause||
 

This rahao pangti is crucial. You must ‘ouchar’ and chant the name of sachay patshah. It’s the ONLY way that you can overcome the 5 dhoots.

If you do nothing and let them run the show in this life you have, then you certainly won’t be enjoying the show of jamdoots battering you whilst they escort you.

Bhagat Kabir ji  says on ang 872

ਮਨ ਕੂਟੈ ਤਉ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੂਟੈ ॥
Man Koottai Tho Jam Thae Shhoottai ||
Pounding down his mind, he escapes from the Messenger of Death.

“Mann nu kooto”, ….beat it man. Beat the mind if misbehaves under Five’s influence. You either beat it or get prepared to take further beats.

Sometimes you hear some sikh groups doing jap quite fast and with force. To some, it may seem aggressive as if over forced.  This is actually a technique to beat the struggling mind and scare the dhoots. I recommend when doing silent internal jap, you start doing it loudly and aggressively within, if your mind isn’t settling.

This Mind is like no other organ of our body. Nothing else exists that can actually cure and fix itself.     Kabir ji  says ….

ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਮਨ ਸਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੨॥
Man Hee Man Sio Kehai Kabeeraa Man Saa Miliaa N Koe ||32||
Only the mind can deal with the mind; says Kabeer, I have not met anything like the mind. ||32||

 

 

 ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥
Ousaar Marrolee Raakhai Dhuaaraa Bheethar Baithee Saa Dhhanaa ||
God has erected the temple of the body; He has placed the nine doors, and the soul-bride sits within.
 

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਅਵਰਿ ਲੁਟੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੨॥
Anmrith Kael Karae Nith Kaaman Avar Luttaen S Panch Janaa ||2||
She enjoys the sweet play again and again, while the five demons are plundering her. ||2||

 Here, it’s helpful to understand the difference between Soul and Mind. In gurbani, these two terms have to be carefully scrutinized with respect to the context. The topic of mind and soul is a huge discussion itself, but there are a few key pointers you can use to help.

If you read through very carefully whilst doing vichaar on each line, it should get deeper and deeper.

The shabad has already spoken about the “ghar” for the mind. The mind that is getting plundered by the 5 dhoots.

Imagine the Mind as homeless in this instance. It doesn’t even know where it’s home (ghar) or gates/entrance(bhaar) are. It can’t even find where the gates are to lock it, as it is outnumbered.  pointer here is to note that the home/seat of the mind is in the head behind the eyes. i.e. within the head. But the 5 dhoots do a good job keeping it focused outside.

Now, in the above lines, it has mentioned Doors(dhauaree),- the 9 darwajey to the house that God created (ousaar maroli), But now it mentions the woman/bride that he has seated in the created body (Bheethar Baithee Saa Dhhanaa).

The maroli is temporary house(maya), created by creator.

 The bride is the Soul bride, or the atma(she) that is separated from paramatma(him).   Her location inside us is sometimes referred to as the hirda. This is the spiritual heart in the middle of the chest. I would assume this in this shabad because it continues to talk about desires and pleasures.(which arise from the heart center)

Referring back to the earlier question by the mind “Kis aagai kari pukaar”, Who can I report them to, who can I ask to sort them?     

Can’t we answer the “the soul bride/atma?

Verse 2 says that she enjoys the sweet amrit in this world play again and again. This internal amrit comes from the where the mind should be settled; the mansoravar surrounding the darbar. However, since the 5 dhoots don’t allow the mind to settle inward to even attempt looking for the darbar, the atma/soul bride also faces the consequences, since it doesn’t get the eternal food(amrit).

 

ਢਾਹਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਲੂਟਿਆ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਪਕੜੀ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ॥
Dtaahi Marrolee Loottiaa Dhaehuraa Saa Dhhan Pakarree Eaek Janaa ||
In this way, the temple is being demolished; the body is being plundered, and the soul-bride, left all alone, is captured.
 

ਜਮ ਡੰਡਾ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਪੜਿਆ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੩॥
Jam Ddanddaa Gal Sangal Parriaa Bhaag Geae Sae Panch Janaa ||3||
Death strikes her down with his rod, the shackles are placed around her neck, and now the five have left. ||3||

 

The body suffers these consequences and it isn’t immortal. The atma-soul bride will eventually have nowhere to reside after the temple collapses. The jamms will still be ordered to beat you, but the 5 dhoots will now be running away, since they will have no work.

 

Guruji continues to warn us not to be under assumption that the 5 dhoots are the only problems. The panj are the main problem for the Mind.  But the atma that is separated from Paramatma also has further drawbacks……

ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥
Kaaman Lorrai Sueinaa Rupaa Mithr Lurraen S Khaadhhaathaa ||
The wife yearns for gold and silver, and her friends, the senses, yearn for good food.
 

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਬਾਧਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੪॥
Naanak Paap Karae Thin Kaaran Jaasee Jamapur Baadhhaathaa ||4||2||14||
O Nanak, she commits sins for their sake; she shall go, bound and gagged, to the City of Death. ||4||2||14||

 

Kaaman(wife), yearns Suinna rupad (gold silver) jewellery.  Due to being separated, a veil of ego covers up the jyot within the atma and atam starts to believe that it is the body.

There is ‘’always” a desire in the hirda for some kind of pleasure which can help provide completeness. We begin to believe that the sensory organs of touch, sight, smell and taste may help fulfill these desires.

Atma gets fooled into believing that it is the body roop. Dressing in gold and silver start to provide pleasures of image desires. To add, the senses of touch, taste, smell and sight start to desire more pleasures. This is all in the name of trying to fill the heart’s desires.

Man will waste a whole lifetime choosing and getting desires for the senses, but the true inner yearn is always for true Naam.

Gurbani says..

Eaethae Ras Sareer Kae Kai Ghatt Naam Nivaas ||2||
-these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2||

 

The shabad makes you realize that it’s not only the 5 dhoots that we have to tackle, but also our desires of the heart. Doesn’t matter if it smells, tastes, looks good or not. We don’t need to be wasting energy into these matters.

[Ragmaala]

^ thanks veere, it makes sense