Ajaapa / Simran Saas Gras

[Jaspal Hunjan]

Hi Sadh Sangat Ji,

 

What is the difference between Ajaapa and Saas Gras?

How do you know if you reached Ajaapa stage?

How do you know if you are doing Saas Gras? What is the correct technique for each?

Thank you

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna Ji

Jaspal.

[jaikaara]

very good question, thank you so much for bringing this up. With a little understanding of what i have if i were to try to explain the difference it would be like this . 

Saas giraas is outward or physical method of inhaling Wahe and exhaling Guru 

Ajapa jaap is a awastha ..the person does not do any physical efforts ..the jaap goes on inside him/her.

 

This is what i have understood from reading various topics, i have not discussed this with a awastha waale mahapurush. Waheguru knows the best .

Akaal ! 

 

 

 

[Jaspal Hunjan]

OK thank you. Which stage comes first? Saas Giraas or the Ajapa jaap?

[Ragmaala]

Here are some good links to get started on Saas giraas:

 

[Sat1176]

Bhen-ji,

The first post in this thread explains ajapa quite well like Jaikara already mentioned.

Saas-Giras as per my understanding means japping the gurmantar with every breath which is the ultimate sustenance of the body to function in this world. However it has few stages. It starts with verbal jappa out aloud. The technique that I was taught was to say "Wahe" - slight pause - then say "Guru". The key here is that you must listen attentively to what you have just said and the sound of your own voice. At this stage don't worry about synchronizing with the breathing. Just worry about saying it in two parts and concentrate on what you are saying. With practice you may find your own natural rhythm with the breath, or breath synchronizing in some form with the words. This stage is also referred to as "Bhakri". This stage needs to be done for a significant amount of time till you find your mind beginning to listen attentively without running off thinking other things.

When you can see that the mind is becoming more focused on the sound of your own voice, and it's mental chattering is significantly diminishing then you can slowly begin to lower the volume till you get to a whispering stage so that there is still some dull audible sound coming from the mouth which you can hear. This will require greater effort of concentration. Once again test your mind. If you find that the mind wonders off in other directions and does not sit and listen to the jaap then you can try for a little longer to make it settle otherwise return to step one where you increase the volume a bit more till it starts to listen again.

This leads saas-giras to include a state called saas-saas. With this stage you start by whispering the gurmantar "Wahe" with inhale and  "Guru" on exhale, where either the Guru being a little louder or same volume as "Wahe" part. You will have found that when doing simran out aloud in the first stage of saas-giras it is next to impossible to say "Wahe" and inhale at same time but saying Guru when exhaling was easy. The only natural way of talking or producing any sound is when exhaling. Because with saas-saas you are whispering, it becomes easier to say Wahe properly when inhaling with the breath. With saas-saas you should find that the mind also begins to jap along with the whisper. However your attention must always remain on the sound of whisper or of the voice of the mind japping. If you find your thoughts returning again and mind wondering off then try and bring attention back on to the whispering sound or revert to earlier stage. Key point to note is that the mouth should only be slightly open when doing saas-saas and you should be breathing through the mouth. This stage is also referred to as "Madhma"

When you have become adept at this stage one can try and leave the breath synchonisation and just focus on the mental jaap sound alone. This stage is also called "Pasanti".

Ajapa jaap means japa without effort (A-japa) and is the end state of saas-giras where the mind has now gone into autopilot and is japing at it's own speed without you forcing it recite, i.e. without any kind of will power. It's a very advanced stage and requires a lot of effort in the earlier stages and above all Waheguru's kirpa.

 

jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa Har Har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

In the above pangti you will see the name Har repeated twice. Why? This is a reference to saas giras in that what is being emphasized here is one Har on inhale and the second Har on exhale.

 

Its taken years of searching, reading and "Saadh" sangat just to learn the contents of this one post. If it helps you, and you start walking on the path of simran, sooner rather later, without having to waste anymore time first trying find out these teachings on the path of naam simran then it will have been worthwhile.

Happy japping and god bless you on your journey.

[jaikaara]

2 hours ago, Jaspal Hunjan said:

OK thank you. Which stage comes first? Saas Giraas or the Ajapa jaap?

Sat1176 bhaisahab has explained it very well, what i feel is to achieve ajapaa jaap it may not be necessary that you go through the saas giraas process ..saas giraas is a method and ajapaa jaap is a stage of spirituality of a awastha as we call it . If there is Guru kirpa the person would enter into the ajapaa jaap stage.

Waheguru knows the best.

[Chote Daas]

Im sorry but I have a question. I am heard that if the mind does not behave, you must beat it. So how does one beat the mind when it does bad things? Thank you

[das]

1 hour ago, Chote Daas said:

Im sorry but I have a question. I am heard that if the mind does not behave, you must beat it. So how does one beat the mind when it does bad things? Thank you

You cannot beat the mind; best way is to work along with him. Controlling the mind does not mean stopping the thought process. Control of the mind means using it properly, and knowing the method of using the forces of the mind. It is necessary that we learn to observe, understand, and train the functions of mind at the various levels of consciousness.

Techniques to make Mind one-pointed

1. Do not try to stop Mind from thinking something. Do not play wrestling with your mind. Just try to see what kind of thoughts mind is thinking and where it is going. Do not give Mind the permission to run, but do not stop it from going there - instead give it full control by saying "Mind if you want to go there, you can go; but I am not coming with you.". After some time, the Mind will become steady and would not run. This is the most commonly used technique.
   
   During meditation build your determination, and tell your mind, “At this time my mind is only for meditation. I have to meditate and learn to go beyond this mire of delusion and confusion created by my mind. I am not going to identify with the thought patterns going on in my mind. No matter what happens during these moments I will be not disturbed, no matter what happens. Let my preoccupations come forward later. I do not want to be disturbed.” This way, we will build our sankalpa shakti. Sankalpa shakti (determination).
    
2. This technique for those who has somewhat better control on their bhuddhi. In this technique, student divides his mind into 2 parts: One the owner, and other the servant. Being the owner of Mind, it instructs the other part (servant) not to run and eventually Mind gets trained.
    
3. This technique is for advanced. Under this technique sit down for dhana and stop thinking. Empty your whole mind and watch from where the thoughts are coming. You will notice that thoughts come from outside. Throw these thoughts before entering the mind and destroy the thought.

It would be interesting to know the Mind in terms of Bird. Mind is a bird. Greed and Honor are its 2 wings; Attachment and Hatred are its mouth (chuanj) and it resides on tree named as body. Good (Shubh) and Bad (Ashubh) are its food. The technique to control this mind in terms of Bird: Prepare a cage of Vichar and put this mind inside this cage. (i.e always think about what is not-changable). Cut the wings of greed by using scisor of Veerag and Santokh. Give him the food of rememberance of Atama.

 

[Sat1176]

You beat it with the gurmantar. You make it sit still and listen or do the Jaap, so it doesn't have the audacity to even think about things in the first place. Try it and you will very quickly realise how sneaky it is.

It is however good practice to tame it slowly over time rather than after the event because by then it's too late. However also show it some love occasionally. There are many encouraging and pleasing pangtis in gurbani that one can read and reflect upon. 

[Chote Daas]

Ah thank you very much for this advice das ji and sat1176 ji. this helped greatly. wjkk wjkf

[Sat1176]

It's actually very interesting what Das posted in his suggestions. I was listening to gurumaa the other day and she said exactly the same thing. She said there are two ways to still the mind.

1. Observe the thoughts but do react or associate with them and eventually they fade away.

2. Use intense concentration on an object to stop the thoughts. E.g mantra etc

Ultimately you should end up in the same state of pure clear consciousness.

i believe she advises to those under her guidance that they practice both in parallel.

 

[Sat1176]

Slightly off topic but follows on from my previous post. Those that have time have a listen to this Q&A session with her. Sometimes her answers can be real eye openers. Particularly enjoyed the first question and her last suggestion.

 

[Ragmaala]

On 2017-04-20 at 7:51 PM, Sat1176 said:

Slightly off topic but follows on from my previous post. Those that have time have a listen to this Q&A session with her. Sometimes her answers can be real eye openers. Particularly enjoyed the first question and her last suggestion.

We think we have so much time, but our stupid mind keeps procrastinating and days turn into months and years.  Its good thing we have realized that we need to be doing simran, but mind keeps forgetting all the time, and keeps getting entangled in world.

The story of Buddha was def profound. He started around age 30, I am also around that age, so I guess all hope is not lost yet. lol.

[Kaur Inder]

On 4/18/2017 at 7:30 PM, Sat1176 said:

Bhen-ji,

The first post in this thread explains ajapa quite well like Jaikara already mentioned.

Saas-Giras as per my understanding means japping the gurmantar with every breath which is the ultimate sustenance of the body to function in this world. However it has few stages. It starts with verbal jappa out aloud. The technique that I was taught was to say "Wahe" - slight pause - then say "Guru". They key here is that you must listen attentively to what you have just said and the sound of your own voice. At this stage don't worry about synchronizing with the breathing. Just worry about saying it in two parts and concentration on what you are saying. With practice you may find your own natural rhythm with the breath, or breath synchronizing in some form with the words. This stage is also referred to as "Bhakri". This stage needs to be done for a significant amount of time till you find your mind beginning to listen attentively without running off thinking other things.

When you can see that the mind is becoming more focused on the sound of your own voice, and it's mental chattering is significantly diminishing then you can slowly begin to lower the volume till you get to a whispering stage so that there is still some dull audible sound coming from the mouth which you can hear. This will require greater effort of concentration. Once again test your mind. If you find that the mind wonders off in other directions and does not sit and listen to the jaap then you can try for a little longer to make it settle otherwise return to step one where you increase the volume a bit more till it starts to listen again.

This leads saas-giras to include a state called saas-saas. With this stage you start by whispering the gurmantar "Wahe" with inhale and  "Guru" on exhale, where either the Guru being a little louder or same volume as "Wahe" part. You will have found that when doing simran out aloud in the first stage of saas-giras it is next to impossible to say "Wahe" and inhale at same time but saying Guru when exhaling was easy. The only natural way of talking or producing any sound is when exhaling. Because with saas-saas you are whispering, it becomes easier to say Wahe properly when inhaling with the breath. With saas-saas you should find that the mind also begins to jap along with the whisper. However your attention must always remain on the sound of whisper or of the voice of the mind japping. If you find your thoughts returning again and mind wondering off then try and bring attention back on to the whispering sound or revert to earlier stage. Key point to note is that the mouth should only be slightly open when doing saas-saas and you should be breathing through the mouth. This stage is also referred to as "Madhma"

When you have become adept at this stage one can try and leave the breath synchonisation and just focus on the mental jaap sound alone. This stage is also called "Pasanti".

Ajapa jaap means japa without effort (A-japa) and is the end state of saas-giras where the mind has now gone into autopilot and is japing at it's own speed without you forcing it recite, i.e. without any kind of will power. It's a very advanced stage and requires a lot of effort in the earlier stages and above all Waheguru's kirpa.

 

jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa Har Har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

In the above pangti you will see the name Har repeated twice. Why? This is a reference to saas giras in that what is being emphasized here is one Har on inhale and the second Har on exhale.

 

Its taken years of searching, reading and "Saadh" sangat just to learn the contents of this one post. If it helps you, and you start walking on the path of simran, sooner rather later, without having to waste anymore time first trying find out these teachings on the path of naam simran then it will have been worthwhile.

Happy japping and god bless you on your journey.

I'll be grateful if u can answer my few questions. Like u said when saying wahe guru, at first don't have to focus much on the rhythm with breath in and out. It'll automatically sync. So can I do this while doing house work as well like washing dishes etc or do I have to sit down and thn do it and is it ok if I do it in my mind and not saying it loud because saying in my mind I find it easy and breathing in and out thru nose.  Because this is the way I'm being able to and find it easy to do and sync thru nostrils and saying wahe-guru in my mind rather thn doing it loud because as u said it's not easy to say wahe while breathing in. And while doing Simran at Amritvela is there any specific timings for how long should I be doing it. Like is it okay to do it for 20-30 mins or have to do more thn two hours or even longer thn that. 

[Sat1176]

5 hours ago, Kaur Inder said:

I'll be grateful if u can answer my few questions. Like u said when saying wahe guru, at first don't have to focus much on the rhythm with breath in and out. It'll automatically sync. So can I do this while doing house work as well like washing dishes etc or do I have to sit down and thn do it and is it ok if I do it in my mind and not saying it loud because saying in my mind I find it easy and breathing in and out thru nose.  Because this is the way I'm being able to and find it easy to do and sync thru nostrils and saying wahe-guru in my mind rather thn doing it loud because as u said it's not easy to say wahe while breathing in. 

Bhen ji,

There are definitely quotes in gurbani that state one should do simran whilst performing your daily work. It is perfect way of keeping the mind focused and not wondering on useless thoughts.

However to reap the full effects of naam simran, one should spend some time in focused dhyan with eyes closed. Only then will the mind go inwards and the journey truly begin.

As for bypassing Verbal japa and going straight to saas saas and mental simran, it really depends on your avasta. Are you able to listen and focus on the dhun of the gurmantar be said in the mind or does your mind wonder? The key point it where is your dhyan when doin simran, has it escaped through the eyes and focused on external objects or it inside the body listening to the Dhuni of the gurmantar.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

God bless

 

[Kaur Inder]

3 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Bhen ji,

There are definitely quotes in gurbani that state one should do simran whilst performing your daily work. It is perfect way of keeping the mind focused and not wondering on useless thoughts.

However to reap the full effects of naam simran, one should spend some time in focused dhyan with eyes closed. Only then will the mind go inwards and the journey truly begin.

As for bypassing Verbal japa and going straight to saas saas and mental simran, it really depends on your avasta. Are you able to listen and focus on the dhun of the gurmantar be said in the mind or does your mind wonder? The key point it where is your dhyan when doin simran, has it escaped through the eyes and focused on external objects or it inside the body listening to the Dhuni of the gurmantar.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

God bless

 

When I'm doing other works I say it loud and listen to it but when I sit down and eyes closed thn i can do it internally and concentrate easily but yes sometimes mind wavers but thn again I bring my mind to where it should be and continue doing it. But I'm finding it hard to match breath in and out while doing it loud. I don't know I'm confused now. And can't talk to anyone about this because nobody knows these things. I didn't even knw that there are these techniques and one should follow to keep mind stable. The only problem I'm facing is matching my breath but Im able to concentrate my mind while I do Simran. But I'll keep trying to do with inhale and exhale method as well. Hopefully god will help me. Thank u so much for the reply ??

[Guest jatindar Singh]

With inhale I am not being able to say "Wahe" with a sound, it can be done only mentally.

Is it possible..please guide

Exhale sound "Guru " is ok.

 

[harsharan000]

17 minutes ago, Guest jatindar Singh said:

With inhale I am not being able to say "Wahe" with a sound, it can be done only mentally.

Is it possible..please guide

Exhale sound "Guru " is ok.

 

It is not only ok, but desirable and recommended also, for to progress further, one has to become unaware of the body and surroundings.

It is our mind fully which ultimately has to do the jaap in order to enter the subtler realms.

So don't worry, you are on the right tracks.

Stay blessed.

SSA.

[PCSJZ]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 12:50 AM, Guest jatindar Singh said:

With inhale I am not being able to say "Wahe" with a sound, it can be done only mentally.

Is it possible..please guide

Exhale sound "Guru " is ok.

 

Wjkk Wjkf

It's difficult to explain but I think you are saying 'Wahe' when you inhale literally in which case you won't be able to say it.

When you inhale, you need to bring in your stomach about an inch, it's at that point you say Wahe, then Guru when you exhale.

Atleast that is how Bhai Sewa Singh Tarmala ji explains it and how Bhai Ajit Singh ji explains.

[Still nascent]

I don't think that one should go into technicalities of breathing and simran together etc. Every person is different as in other things, so is the case with Simran too. we do things differently, something that suits me may not be feasible for you. 

Waheguru ji respects and rewards our labour and I am ensuring that from my personal experience.

Just sit and start loudly- initially.Forget about anything else. Breathe etc will sync in automatically. 

Here's a motivating video on chanting loudly and on technique of RAM DUHAI by Kabir ji

 

[Ragmaala]

2 hours ago, Still nascent said:

I don't think that one should go into technicalities of breathing and simran together etc. Every person is different as in other things, so is the case with Simran too. we do things differently, something that suits me may not be feasible for you. 

Waheguru ji respects and rewards our labour and I am ensuring that from my personal experience.

Just sit and start loudly- initially.Forget about anything else. Breathe etc will sync in automatically. 

Here's a motivating video on chanting loudly and on technique of RAM DUHAI by Kabir ji

 

Brilliant video !!!

thanks for sharing 

[Guest ROHIT]

On 4/18/2017 at 7:37 AM, Jaspal Hunjan said:

Hi Sadh Sangat Ji,

 

What is the difference between Ajaapa and Saas Gras?

How do you know if you reached Ajaapa stage?

How do you know if you are doing Saas Gras? What is the correct technique for each?

Thank you

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna Ji

Jaspal.

Waheguru g ajaapa jaap means jo apne app ho rea o jaap na sade boln nal chl rea na hi sade mukh tpn chup krke te mind dwara chl rea ( j mind dwara apa kr rhe a tan v jaap horea te fr o ajaapa kiwe hoyea?)

Ajaapa jaap anhadh bani jo k malak waheguru de mukh di awaj jisnu gurbani ch naam, sehaj dunn v kea hai jo sidi malak ton chl rhi te sade sarea de andr hai jo likhn pdhn ch nhi aundi jis bare maharaj japji sahib ch dsde nye " kaagadh kalam na likhn haar, maney ka beh karn vichar aisa naam niranjn howe j ko mann jane mann koye" nirantr chl rhi hai bina sade wjaye. Es tak paunchn li sanu sawas giras simran krna painda te nal nal apni awaj nu sunna hunda tan jo asi apne vichara ton pre ho jaiae te us syage te chlw jayiae jithe sadey mann da ghr hai jisnu gurbani ch sunn kea hai.

Waheguru g j kuj vadh ght kea gea howe te murakh te anjan jaan k maaf krdeo g 

 

 

 

[Guest Jaspreet]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:55 AM, Jaspal Hunjan said:

OK thank you. Which stage comes first? Saas Giraas or the Ajapa jaap?

I think we have to do saas giraas simran ourselves n then later the stage comes itself when simran keeps going on inside body.