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very good question, thank you so much for bringing this up. With a little understanding of what i have if i were to try to explain the difference it would be like this . 

Saas giraas is outward or physical method of inhaling Wahe and exhaling Guru 

Ajapa jaap is a awastha ..the person does not do any physical efforts ..the jaap goes on inside him/her.

 

This is what i have understood from reading various topics, i have not discussed this with a awastha waale mahapurush. Waheguru knows the best .

Akaal ! 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jaspal Hunjan said:

OK thank you. Which stage comes first? Saas Giraas or the Ajapa jaap?

Sat1176 bhaisahab has explained it very well, what i feel is to achieve ajapaa jaap it may not be necessary that you go through the saas giraas process ..saas giraas is a method and ajapaa jaap is a stage of spirituality of a awastha as we call it . If there is Guru kirpa the person would enter into the ajapaa jaap stage.

Waheguru knows the best.

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Slightly off topic but follows on from my previous post. Those that have time have a listen to this Q&A session with her. Sometimes her answers can be real eye openers. Particularly enjoyed the first question and her last suggestion.

 

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On 2017-04-20 at 7:51 PM, Sat1176 said:

Slightly off topic but follows on from my previous post. Those that have time have a listen to this Q&A session with her. Sometimes her answers can be real eye openers. Particularly enjoyed the first question and her last suggestion.

We think we have so much time, but our stupid mind keeps procrastinating and days turn into months and years.  Its good thing we have realized that we need to be doing simran, but mind keeps forgetting all the time, and keeps getting entangled in world.

The story of Buddha was def profound. He started around age 30, I am also around that age, so I guess all hope is not lost yet. lol.

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On 4/18/2017 at 7:30 PM, Sat1176 said:

Bhen-ji,

The first post in this thread explains ajapa quite well like Jaikara already mentioned.

Saas-Giras as per my understanding means japping the gurmantar with every breath which is the ultimate sustenance of the body to function in this world. However it has few stages. It starts with verbal jappa out aloud. The technique that I was taught was to say "Wahe" - slight pause - then say "Guru". They key here is that you must listen attentively to what you have just said and the sound of your own voice. At this stage don't worry about synchronizing with the breathing. Just worry about saying it in two parts and concentration on what you are saying. With practice you may find your own natural rhythm with the breath, or breath synchronizing in some form with the words. This stage is also referred to as "Bhakri". This stage needs to be done for a significant amount of time till you find your mind beginning to listen attentively without running off thinking other things.

When you can see that the mind is becoming more focused on the sound of your own voice, and it's mental chattering is significantly diminishing then you can slowly begin to lower the volume till you get to a whispering stage so that there is still some dull audible sound coming from the mouth which you can hear. This will require greater effort of concentration. Once again test your mind. If you find that the mind wonders off in other directions and does not sit and listen to the jaap then you can try for a little longer to make it settle otherwise return to step one where you increase the volume a bit more till it starts to listen again.

This leads saas-giras to include a state called saas-saas. With this stage you start by whispering the gurmantar "Wahe" with inhale and  "Guru" on exhale, where either the Guru being a little louder or same volume as "Wahe" part. You will have found that when doing simran out aloud in the first stage of saas-giras it is next to impossible to say "Wahe" and inhale at same time but saying Guru when exhaling was easy. The only natural way of talking or producing any sound is when exhaling. Because with saas-saas you are whispering, it becomes easier to say Wahe properly when inhaling with the breath. With saas-saas you should find that the mind also begins to jap along with the whisper. However your attention must always remain on the sound of whisper or of the voice of the mind japping. If you find your thoughts returning again and mind wondering off then try and bring attention back on to the whispering sound or revert to earlier stage. Key point to note is that the mouth should only be slightly open when doing saas-saas and you should be breathing through the mouth. This stage is also referred to as "Madhma"

When you have become adept at this stage one can try and leave the breath synchonisation and just focus on the mental jaap sound alone. This stage is also called "Pasanti".

Ajapa jaap means japa without effort (A-japa) and is the end state of saas-giras where the mind has now gone into autopilot and is japing at it's own speed without you forcing it recite, i.e. without any kind of will power. It's a very advanced stage and requires a lot of effort in the earlier stages and above all Waheguru's kirpa.

 

jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa Har Har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

In the above pangti you will see the name Har repeated twice. Why? This is a reference to saas giras in that what is being emphasized here is one Har on inhale and the second Har on exhale.

 

Its taken years of searching, reading and "Saadh" sangat just to learn the contents of this one post. If it helps you, and you start walking on the path of simran, sooner rather later, without having to waste anymore time first trying find out these teachings on the path of naam simran then it will have been worthwhile.

Happy japping and god bless you on your journey.

I'll be grateful if u can answer my few questions. Like u said when saying wahe guru, at first don't have to focus much on the rhythm with breath in and out. It'll automatically sync. So can I do this while doing house work as well like washing dishes etc or do I have to sit down and thn do it and is it ok if I do it in my mind and not saying it loud because saying in my mind I find it easy and breathing in and out thru nose.  Because this is the way I'm being able to and find it easy to do and sync thru nostrils and saying wahe-guru in my mind rather thn doing it loud because as u said it's not easy to say wahe while breathing in. And while doing Simran at Amritvela is there any specific timings for how long should I be doing it. Like is it okay to do it for 20-30 mins or have to do more thn two hours or even longer thn that. 

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5 hours ago, Kaur Inder said:

I'll be grateful if u can answer my few questions. Like u said when saying wahe guru, at first don't have to focus much on the rhythm with breath in and out. It'll automatically sync. So can I do this while doing house work as well like washing dishes etc or do I have to sit down and thn do it and is it ok if I do it in my mind and not saying it loud because saying in my mind I find it easy and breathing in and out thru nose.  Because this is the way I'm being able to and find it easy to do and sync thru nostrils and saying wahe-guru in my mind rather thn doing it loud because as u said it's not easy to say wahe while breathing in. 

Bhen ji,

There are definitely quotes in gurbani that state one should do simran whilst performing your daily work. It is perfect way of keeping the mind focused and not wondering on useless thoughts.

However to reap the full effects of naam simran, one should spend some time in focused dhyan with eyes closed. Only then will the mind go inwards and the journey truly begin.

As for bypassing Verbal japa and going straight to saas saas and mental simran, it really depends on your avasta. Are you able to listen and focus on the dhun of the gurmantar be said in the mind or does your mind wonder? The key point it where is your dhyan when doin simran, has it escaped through the eyes and focused on external objects or it inside the body listening to the Dhuni of the gurmantar.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

God bless

 

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3 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Bhen ji,

There are definitely quotes in gurbani that state one should do simran whilst performing your daily work. It is perfect way of keeping the mind focused and not wondering on useless thoughts.

However to reap the full effects of naam simran, one should spend some time in focused dhyan with eyes closed. Only then will the mind go inwards and the journey truly begin.

As for bypassing Verbal japa and going straight to saas saas and mental simran, it really depends on your avasta. Are you able to listen and focus on the dhun of the gurmantar be said in the mind or does your mind wonder? The key point it where is your dhyan when doin simran, has it escaped through the eyes and focused on external objects or it inside the body listening to the Dhuni of the gurmantar.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

God bless

 

When I'm doing other works I say it loud and listen to it but when I sit down and eyes closed thn i can do it internally and concentrate easily but yes sometimes mind wavers but thn again I bring my mind to where it should be and continue doing it. But I'm finding it hard to match breath in and out while doing it loud. I don't know I'm confused now. And can't talk to anyone about this because nobody knows these things. I didn't even knw that there are these techniques and one should follow to keep mind stable. The only problem I'm facing is matching my breath but Im able to concentrate my mind while I do Simran. But I'll keep trying to do with inhale and exhale method as well. Hopefully god will help me. Thank u so much for the reply ??

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