Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Ok, I'm going to start with "Bhishma".

 

The Great patriarch of the family. Bhishma took 2 vows in his life.

1. To remain celibate

2. to be loyal to the throne of Hastinapur.

 

For the ceilbacy vow, it was never an issue within Bhishma's own mind, until his potential marraige interfered with his father's desire to marry a fisherman's daughter. Then Bhishma took this celibacy to open the way for his father's marriage. This vow of celibacy he took on the spur of the moment and without consulting his own parents. His mother "Ganga" later chides him several times, over this when he comes to her for guidance.

 

Taking a vow of celibacy for a kashitriya (warrior) IMHO is not a good step. Warriors are duty bound to produce more warrior offspring and seeing as he was the (at that time only) son of the KIng, it was an unwise move for this vow. It threatened the royal dynasty of Hastinapur.

 

Bhishma;'s second vow meant that he had to be loyal to the throne of Hastinapur, whoever sat on it, even if they were against "dharma". This is how the situation turned out. With the benefit of hindsight, or as a teaching to mankind, the vow should have included this clause "as long as the throne is "dharmic".  Don't blindly tie yourself to someone or something without assurances of their conduct. In the same way Dhrithrashra was bound to Duryodhan, good or bad, Bhishma was tied to the throne, good or bad.

 

The next thing about Bhishma was that he was after Krishna, the most powerful character in Mahabharat. But this power I believe manifested itself into arrogance on 2 occasions.

 

1. the swayambar of Ambika and her her sisters. Ambika and her sisters had a swayambar whereby they would choose their own suitors, but Bhishma, carried all 3 away by force as no other Kashatriyas could oppose Bhishma as they were no-way near  as powerful as him. Hence he used  strength and power to take the 3 sisters away by force. The one sister cursed him that she would be the cause of his death before she committed suicide.

 

2. The marriage proposal for Gandhari was also done through fear of Bhishma. Gandhar King was afraid to refuse Bhishma's proposal for Gandhari's wedding to the blind king. Bhisma had already let it be known that he would take by force what wasn't given willingly. This resentment of his sister living her subsequent years in darkness fuelled the hatred in Shakuni's heart to destroy the Pandav/Kauravs by pitting them against one another, and thereby to destroy the dynasty.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Interesting. What is the Mahabharat in generel? I can't imagine the entire book to be about warfare only?

 

Mahabharat has been presented as a battle betweeen dharam and adharam, but there is more to this in my opinion. In ways the dharmic people acted against dharma and vice versa with adharmic people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 2nd character I want to talk about is Draupadi. Her actions in this story seems to have been minimalised in the lead-up to the game of dice, but she played a very big part in the escalation of events. Draupadi was born as a by-product from fire. The actual purpose of the "fire-birth" was for her brother Dhristdhum, who's purpose in life was to avenge his father at the hands of Dron Acharya. Her character represents fire in it's very negative aspect, very wild and unforgiving to those it envelops, not discriminating between friend and foe. Her words have great harshness about them and she does not desist from even insulting her husbands from time to time.

 

After the Kingdoim was divided, the pandavs went to Indaprasth and built a magnifcent palace there. Inviting the Kauravs over to see the palace, Duroyodhan falls into a pool of water thinking it to be an illusion. Draupadi is watching and ;laughs at him after he falls in and exclaims "The blind man's son is blind as well." Duroyodhan is thrice-humiliated, by falling in but then hearing her laugh and further insult him and his father.The King's blindness was a constant source of torment, to both father and son.

 

After this Yudhistra rebukes Draupadi (mildly) and says that she should not have said those words. Who knows what the consequences could be? But Yudhistra here failed in his own duty to seek recompense for Durodhyan and Dhrithrasthr. But there he let the matter lie.

 

This is in effect letting her off the hook. Draupadi should have been sent to both King and son to apologise, firstly as the kauravs were guests and it is very unethical to insult a guest. Second, the King was more deserving of her respect, and also moreso, because he was a father-figure to the Pandavs and should have been to her as well. Who would call their own father blind? Thirdly Duroyodhan is like a younger brother to her as well. But no more is said of this, until the dice game, where Duroyodhan reminds her of her words.

 

After her humiliation, Draupadi never lets up an opportunity to humiliate her husbands and especially Yudhishtra with her harsh words, and by keeping her hair open to torment the Pandavs constantly about her humiliation. Yet she never once repents for humiliating Duroyodhan and the King.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@chatanga1 If you really interested in Mahabharata then please read it from ancient sources rather than relying on Dramatised presentation of BR Chopra serial. many experts believe that Mahabharata of BR 's version was full of flaws 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/

 

You can start it from here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

@chatanga1 If you really interested in Mahabharata then please read it from ancient sources rather than relying on Dramatised presentation of BR Chopra serial. many experts believe that Mahabharata of BR 's version was full of flaws 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/

 

You can start it from here

 

Thanks for the info and link. There is a lot to read there. I had thought the TV serial was based totally on the ancient sources. DO you know of any parts of the TV serial which differ from written sources?

I will comment further on the characters as shown in the TV series but will look up written sources in some time as well. I think that most of us will have seen the serial rather the read the story itself .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2017 at 2:48 AM, chatanga1 said:

 

Thanks for the info and link. There is a lot to read there. I had thought the TV serial was based totally on the ancient sources. DO you know of any parts of the TV serial which differ from written sources?

I will comment further on the characters as shown in the TV series but will look up written sources in some time as well. I think that most of us will have seen the serial rather the read the story itself .

Few, Karna humilating Arjuna on 16th day is not part of the above sources.Similarly there were  plenty of warriors who were very deadly and use to consider themselves at par with Arjuna or Bheeshma .Similalrly Drona was also known to know many vidya's. On jaydrath vadh day , he prepared a kawach for Duryodhana through some mantra's that Arjuna was unable to break that. Krishna then show Arjun that nails of Duryodhana don't have any protection and Arjun arrows their..Bheema was very mighty warrior and on Jaydrath vadh day he defeated karna so that Arjun can by pass him. Bhim single handedly destroyed 20 akshauni sena of Duryodhan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Thanks for that. maybe some of these differences could be explored more. I wonder why certain differences started to show themselves as I always thought the main text was unadulterated.

There are 14 different versions of the Ramayan. Won't be surprised, if Mahabharat too has different versions.

@kdsingh80 - What u think bro?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Didn't know that. Are they all based off the Balmiki Ramayan?

Most likely, Balmiki Ramayan is just one of the 14. 

Some of the other ones are

  • Adbhut Ramayan
  • Adhyatamik Ramayan
  • Biradh Ramayan
  • Tulsi Ramayan

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02046.htm

 

 

" That bull among men, Duryodhana, continued to dwell in that, assembly house (of the Pandavas). And with Sakuni, the Kuru prince slowly examined the whole of that mansion, and the Kuru prince beheld in it many celestial designs, which he had never seen before in the city called after the elephant (Hastinapore). And one day king Duryodhana in going round that mansion came upon a crystal surface. And the king, from ignorance, mistaking it for a pool of water, drew up his clothes. And afterwards finding out his mistake the king wandered about the mansion in great sorrow. And sometime after, the king, mistaking a lake of crystal water adorned with lotuses of crystal petals for land, fell into it with all his clothes on. Beholding Duryodhana fallen into the lake, the mighty Bhima laughed aloud as also the menials of the palace. And the servants, at the command of the king, soon brought him dry and handsome clothes. Beholding the plight of Duryodhana, the mighty Bhima and Arjuna and both the twins--all laughed aloud. Being unused to putting up with insults, Duryodhana could not bear that laugh of theirs. Concealing his emotions he even did not cast his looks on them. And beholding the monarch once more draw up his clothes to cross a piece of dry land which he had mistaken for water, they all laughed again. And the king sometime after mistook a closed door made of crystal as open. And as he was about to pass through it his head struck against it, and he stood with his brain reeling. And mistaking as closed another door made of crystal that was really open, the king in attempting to open it with stretched hands, tumbled down. And coming upon another door that was really open, the king thinking it as closed, went away from it. And, O monarch, king Duryodhana beholding that vast wealth in the Rajasuya sacrifice and having become the victim of those numerous errors within the assembly house at last returned, with the leave of the Pandavas, to Hastinapore. "

 

So there was some truth to Duryodhans humiliation at Indrprsth. The serial showed it differently but the theme was there in the ancient texts. Mahabharat is very hard to read on that site. Am going to get some books off net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in the serial karn was shown innocent and as a victim of hardships. They showed him like a hero that was honoured by duryodhan and was loyal to duryodhan til his last breath. While the written text still mentions loyalty he's not as innocent as he is shown in the serial according to the text. In the text he is very envious towards Arjun and very egotistical. He had a big hand in draupadi's humiliation at hastinapur during the dice game. He always wanted to defeat Arjun using his sheer strength but was unable to. He is the minister of duryodhan and wanted duryodhan to go for war as he himself would jump at any chance to conquer arjun. Karn was duryodhan's childhood friend he helped him poison bheem when they were young.

Shakuni on the other hand wasn't as evil as he is shown in the serial. According to the text, after the pandav brothers saved them from the gandharvs shakuni told duryodhan to make peace with the pandavs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the tv serial, Shakuni is shown as being driven by a desire to destroy the Kuru Kul by instigating a fight between Pandavs and Kauravs. He mentions this to his own son, that his plans are coming to fruitiojn with the commencement of war. I have one book on Mahabharat which is a Penguin published book. It's been a long time since I read it, but will have a look through that to see what is says.

 

Does anyone know of the oldest written text of Mahabharat that exists today?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/14/2017 at 6:22 PM, chatanga1 said:

1. the swayambar of Ambika and her her sisters. Ambika and her sisters had a swayambar whereby they would choose their own suitors, but Bhishma, carried all 3 away by force as no other Kashatriyas could oppose Bhishma as they were no-way near  as powerful as him. Hence he used  strength and power to take the 3 sisters away by force. The one sister cursed him that she would be the cause of his death before she committed suicide.

There is one King who resists Bhishma. This King is the lover of Amba (eldest of all the sisters). She was suppose to put the varmala on him at the Suyambhar. He loses (as expected), but his life is spared by Bhishma. He later rejects Amba, when she is sent back to him by Bhishma, due to humiliation. Then, she comes to Bhishma and requests him to marry her. But, he cannot, as he has taken the vow of celibacy. He does offer her to take refuge in his kingdom, but she refuses. This leads to her suicide.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2017 at 6:45 AM, chatanga1 said:

After the Kingdoim was divided, the pandavs went to Indaprasth and built a magnifcent palace there. Inviting the Kauravs over to see the palace, Duroyodhan falls into a pool of water thinking it to be an illusion. Draupadi is watching and ;laughs at him after he falls in and exclaims "The blind man's son is blind as well." Duroyodhan is thrice-humiliated, by falling in but then hearing her laugh and further insult him and his father.The King's blindness was a constant source of torment, to both father and son.

In the book all the pandavs except for Yudhister laugh at Duryodhan, not just Draupadi which causes him to think up a plan to humiliate their wife and rob them of their kingdom. 

Even though Mahabharat portrays the win of good over evil, it is important to note that none of the characters are completely evil, nor completely good, they all have their faults and also good sides. Even though Duryodhan is seen as evil, he was the only one that stood up for Karan and did not discriminate against him. Duryodhan was really loyal to Karna, the book says he did not cry for anyone (including his brothers) except for Karan. 

Karan is a very interesting character. He was abandoned at birth, he was forced to be someone he was not, this caused him to always try to prove himself to others. He is a very loyal character, even though he was on the side of the Kauravs he observed dharam. He did what he thought was right, to some people it may seem that it was not right for him to fight on Duryodhan's side, however this just goes to show that dharam is not as simple to observe as it seems, what may seem right to do may not be right for you to do. Karan is rather admirable for having the so much loyalty as to stay with Duryodhan, even though he was told by many people such as Krishan and Kunti to leave him and fight on the Pandavs' side. He finally sacrifices his life for the loyalty of his friendship to Duryodhan. There is a lot to learn from him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2017 at 7:11 AM, chatanga1 said:

In the tv serial, Shakuni is shown as being driven by a desire to destroy the Kuru Kul by instigating a fight between Pandavs and Kauravs. He mentions this to his own son, that his plans are coming to fruitiojn with the commencement of war. I have one book on Mahabharat which is a Penguin published book. It's been a long time since I read it, but will have a look through that to see what is says.

It is said in the KMG translation that Shakuni is the incarnation of Dwapur-yug. At the end of each yug, some fraction the population on earth is wiped out to get rid of  adharmic people, for the commencement of the new yug. Shakuni was a very important instrument in starting the war, he also died in the war, this symbolises the near end of Dwapur yug and the starting of a new yug.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×