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Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs


paapiman

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5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I need to keep asking but you refuse to say what it means. I really want to discuss it with you but I feel you are trying to take the discussion onto grounds where it doesn’t belong with a nonsensical definition of brahmanism.

 

Dhillon is no research/historian/doctor. I could easily tear to shreds some of his views but until you tell us what brahmanism is, why add another dimension in a already poor discussion on your part?

 

Why dont' you accept above given explanation of Brahmanism?

 

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4 hours ago, angy15 said:

Why dont' you accept above given explanation of Brahmanism?

Because Brahmanism does not mean a virus. Simple. Why have you accepted it as an explanation of Brahmanism?

 

4 hours ago, angy15 said:

You are no match to his intellect .You will never understand his work.

I understand his work, and his intellect is fake. There are certain topics where I would easily tear his fake intellect apart. But let's leave that and concentrate on this fantastic discussion that you and I are having. I'm asking you a question 10 times and you can't answer.

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11 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Because Brahmanism does not mean a virus. Simple. Why have you accepted it as an explanation of Brahmanism?

 

I understand his work, and his intellect is fake. There are certain topics where I would easily tear his fake intellect apart. But let's leave that and concentrate on this fantastic discussion that you and I are having. I'm asking you a question 10 times and you can't answer.

to consider his views as intellect is in itself weird. According to him everything is a hoax. Parkrama , ishnaan, amritvela, ..the only thing holy is his words sounding right from his nose.  

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11 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Because Brahmanism does not mean a virus. Simple. Why have you accepted it as an explanation of Brahmanism?

i have presented which i feel what Brahmanism . When he says its a virus he means the practices which have creeped into out religion from brahmins. Now if you don't agree with this kind of Brahmanism .Plz tell me according to you what is Brahmanism.Then only  we can move foreward .I

 

11 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I understand his work, and his intellect is fake. T

Thats too much of a criticism .He is a historian and he has reserached more on sikhi  than any one from your Sant Samaj  . Now it again reminds of Bibi Kiranjot tweet .You guys just want  force your style of sikhi and reject others 

 

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11 minutes ago, jaikaara said:

to consider his views as intellect is in itself weird. According to him everything is a hoax. Parkrama , ishnaan, amritvela, ..the only thing holy is his words sounding right from his nose.  

Well that video was on what Brahamanism is.What he says abt other practices we are not discussing here.There are many from your Sant Samaj who also speak so much crap somtimes.

We should stick to our discussion Ranjit Singh versus Taksal .I am still awaiting  for a complete video   from his smagham in which Ranjit Singh has spoken  against Gurmat .Plz

Dont give that b grade  edited videos of  USA wale .They are all out of context.

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1 hour ago, angy15 said:

i have presented which i feel what Brahmanism . 

 

Well I hate to burst your bubble but it’s wrong.

 

 I think it’s very shallow to accept the views of one person and believe it to be gospel? Why haven’t you researched other meanings of brahmanism? 

If you truly believe that Brahmanisn is a virus I can understand somewhat why you like dhadri as he himself has quite perverse views.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Thats too much of a criticism .He is a historian and he has reserached more on sikhi  than any one from your Sant Samaj  . 

 

Research itself doesn’t hold any value if the outcome doesn’t mean anything valid. How many people do you know from “my” sant Samaj and how much time have they spent in research in order for you to make that comparison?

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5 hours ago, angy15 said:

Well that video was on what Brahamanism is.What he says abt other practices we are not discussing here.There are many from your Sant Samaj who also speak so much crap somtimes.

We should stick to our discussion Ranjit Singh versus Taksal .I am still awaiting  for a complete video   from his smagham in which Ranjit Singh has spoken  against Gurmat .Plz

Dont give that b grade  edited videos of  USA wale .They are all out of context.

please bring up a complete video proving he didn't meant to challenge the rituals and might have said it in a different context. Had he not criticized the Taksaal and the rituals he wouldnt have fallen in the eyes of the people. I wish he understands sentiments and apologizes for what people understood about him. Waheguru sammat bakshe

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3 hours ago, jaikaara said:

please bring up a complete video proving he didn't meant to challenge the rituals and might have said it in a different context. Had he not criticized the Taksaal and the rituals he wouldnt have fallen in the eyes of the people. I wish he understands sentiments and apologizes for what people understood about him. Waheguru sammat bakshe

Criticizing people who are running  Taksaals(DHUMMA party)  doesn't make him anti Gurmat . SGGS is not based on any rituals. People like you are only criticizing because he is not a chamcha of Badals just like Dhumma is .Most Taksalis don't even heed him, he's pretty much leading his own rogue faction now.Honestly, no real taksali prefers Dhumma

Let us see the history and character  of this man Dhumma

After Baba Takhur Singh passed away in 2004, there was a lot of controversy over who the next head of the Damdami Taksal should be. One possibility was Bhai Mohkum Singh. Some sources claim that this became a big concern for Indian agencies, considering the past conflicts between the Indian state and the Damdami Taksal. The agencies worked towards ensuring that Bhai Mohkum Singh does not become the head. KPS Gill is said to have taken part in this as well. KPS Gill also had close affiliations with Harnam Singh Dhumma. In 2005, Harnam Singh Dhumma became the head of the Damdami Taksal. It is important to note that Dhumma is an American citizen, which means he required a visa to live in India. This was of course reassuring to the Indian agencies, as they can cancel his visa at any time if they feel the need to do so. Over the years, Dhumma’s relations with the Punjab government became more transparent. At one point, this Taksal was the worst enemy of the Indian state and Punjab government. But now, Dhumma is often seen with security cars and bodyguards provided by the government. So , Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwale began reminding the Sikh sangat of this situation. He went as far as accusing Dhumma of being a “sarkari sant” (government sant). The video of Ranjit Singh went viral on social media, angering Dhumma’s jatha. This lead to an ongoing Facebook war between the two groups and their supporters.  

 

Well this video gives enough replies to all you Dhumma followers.

Please tell  us what has  Dhumma done for Punjab and Sikh community .Why is he called called a Sarkari  Sant.

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10 hours ago, angy15 said:

We should stick to our discussion Ranjit Singh versus Taksal .I

We could if you didn't keep trying to derail the topic by bringing in photos and videos of other things, brahmanism dhumma etc.

But since YOU brought them in, lets try and look at them objectively. Do you understand what that means?

If you do, then you need to provide a better explanation of what brahmanism means.

Or simply, if you don't know, just say you don't  know.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Most Taksalis don't even heed him, he's pretty much leading his own rogue faction now.Honestly, no real taksali prefers Dhumma

 

How many "real taksalis" have you asked this question to arrive at this statement? Or is it another one of your seemingly unending lies?

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Let us see the history and character  of this man Dhumma

After Baba Takhur Singh passed away in 2004, there was a lot of controversy over who the next head of the Damdami Taksal should be. One possibility was Bhai Mohkum Singh. Some sources claim that this became a big concern for Indian agencies, considering the past conflicts between the Indian state and the Damdami Taksal. The agencies worked towards ensuring that Bhai Mohkum Singh does not become the head. KPS Gill is said to have taken part in this as well. KPS Gill also had close affiliations with Harnam Singh Dhumma. In 2005, Harnam Singh Dhumma became the head of the Damdami Taksal. It is important to note that Dhumma is an American citizen, which means he required a visa to live in India. This was of course reassuring to the Indian agencies, as they can cancel his visa at any time if they feel the need to do so. Over the years, Dhumma’s relations with the Punjab government became more transparent. At one point, this Taksal was the worst enemy of the Indian state and Punjab government. But now, Dhumma is often seen with security cars and bodyguards provided by the government. So , Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwale began reminding the Sikh sangat of this situation. He went as far as accusing Dhumma of being a “sarkari sant” (government sant). The video of Ranjit Singh went viral on social media, angering Dhumma’s jatha. This lead to an ongoing Facebook war between the two groups and their supporters.   

 

Too vague. All speculation yet nothing that could be dependable.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

The agencies worked towards ensuring that Bhai Mohkum Singh does not become the head. KPS Gill is said to have taken part in this as well. KPS Gill also had close affiliations with Harnam Singh Dhumma. In 2005, Harnam Singh Dhumma became the head of the Damdami Taksal.

 

I want you to ask yourself, if that were true, why would Dhumma go all out to get 1984 yaadgar Gurdwara built in Sri Darbar Sahib complex against the wishes of the establishment?

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

But now, Dhumma is often seen with security cars and bodyguards provided by the government.

Provided by the government? Ranjit said that? You posted it here?

 

One of the best things that Dhumma has done is end the presence of the missionary cockroaches in Delhi Gurdwaras. For that I will always thank him. No more darsahn rogi or dhunda there.

 

Now lets come back to your statement of "brahmanism". Why do you beleive that this can only mean virus?

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On 6/28/2018 at 8:50 AM, angy15 said:

You are no match to his intellect .You will never understand his work.

How do you know that Chatanga paaji's intellect is no match to Dhillon's? How do you know, if he will understand his work or not? How did you arrive at these conclusions? Can you please explain?

Is this the way a person should engage in a "healthy" discussion?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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@chatanga1

I think there is no point going forward in this debate  debate  . I already given details  which you don't accept. 

I am asking you the third time why u not accepting the theory of Brahmanism given above whats wrong in it .According to you what is Bramansim then.

Is sacrificing goat not Brahmani practice .What kind of bravery is this killing innocent animal 

So let me ask you are all these rituals practices  Gurmat or not.

Plz answer then we may move foreword.

 

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1 hour ago, angy15 said:

I think there is no point going forward in this debate  debate 

Going forward? This debate has been going from side to side and backwards since you began to participate.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

I already given details  which you don't accept. 

It's not just me. No one on this forum has accepted your claim. I don't accept that brahmanism is a virus. No one else here does.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

I am asking you the third time why u not accepting the theory of Brahmanism given above whats wrong in it

Ak me 100 times if you need to. Brahmanism does not mean virus.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

According to you what is Bramansim then.

I wasn't the one who  used the term. You were.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Is sacrificing goat not Brahmani practice .

Could be. But other religions also practice sacrificing goats as well. Are they in your opinion also brahmanism?

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On 6/30/2018 at 9:41 PM, paapiman said:

@angy15

Can you please provide the full video (of the above tidbit) and then explain what Dhadri wanted to convey? What was his intention?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Again it brings to my analysis which I mentioned  earlier

As mentioned earlier there are two school of thoughts emerging

  1. Sampardias based on traditional interpretation based on Sakhis/Stories 

   2. Sikh Missionary   based on Prof Sahib Singh and other modern scholars(Tat Gurmat,)

Whether its Ranjit Singh or Jarnail Singh  there interpretation has to pass through these lines.

ਜੋ ਸ਼ਬਦ /ਵਿਚਾਰ ਗੁਰੂ 'ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ' ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ 'ਤੇ ਪੂਰੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਤਰਦੀ, ਉਹ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਸਵਾਹ ਹੈ.

Even Guruji answers it in his verse below:

ਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥

Satnam

 

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On 6/29/2018 at 7:36 PM, angy15 said:

Criticizing people who are running  Taksaals(DHUMMA party)  doesn't make him anti Gurmat . SGGS is not based on any rituals. People like you are only criticizing because he is not a chamcha of Badals just like Dhumma is .Most Taksalis don't even heed him, he's pretty much leading his own rogue faction now.Honestly, no real taksali prefers Dhumma

Let us see the history and character  of this man Dhumma

After Baba Takhur Singh passed away in 2004, there was a lot of controversy over who the next head of the Damdami Taksal should be. One possibility was Bhai Mohkum Singh. Some sources claim that this became a big concern for Indian agencies, considering the past conflicts between the Indian state and the Damdami Taksal. The agencies worked towards ensuring that Bhai Mohkum Singh does not become the head. KPS Gill is said to have taken part in this as well. KPS Gill also had close affiliations with Harnam Singh Dhumma. In 2005, Harnam Singh Dhumma became the head of the Damdami Taksal. It is important to note that Dhumma is an American citizen, which means he required a visa to live in India. This was of course reassuring to the Indian agencies, as they can cancel his visa at any time if they feel the need to do so. Over the years, Dhumma’s relations with the Punjab government became more transparent. At one point, this Taksal was the worst enemy of the Indian state and Punjab government. But now, Dhumma is often seen with security cars and bodyguards provided by the government. So , Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwale began reminding the Sikh sangat of this situation. He went as far as accusing Dhumma of being a “sarkari sant” (government sant). The video of Ranjit Singh went viral on social media, angering Dhumma’s jatha. This lead to an ongoing Facebook war between the two groups and their supporters.  

 

Well this video gives enough replies to all you Dhumma followers.

Please tell  us what has  Dhumma done for Punjab and Sikh community .Why is he called called a Sarkari  Sant.

Taksal was never the worst enemy, in fact it was only during the time of Sant Jarnail SIngh ji that Indira gandhi and the Taksal communicated . Whatever went wrong and it resulted in turmoil that we all are well aware about. 

By the way, for your information Indian Government is not some Mughal king that the people remain the same. The government then was congress and now it is bjp. Bjp and Akaalis have had a relationship in long .

How is it that you claim that Jathedar Baba Harnaam Singh Dhumma was chosen by the government ? You are making serious allegations against a Sampraday just like the person who you are following. You want to prove that the strength of the Khalsa is so weak that any tom  harry will easily enter and change it accordingly. If it was also so easy then why did the Mughals not do so ? they were more crafty and could have easily been successful in dismantling the whole Panth. 

The whole idea of your thinking is , saare chor ne bas assi hi saaf suthre chitte hai. I t doesnt work like this buddy .

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2 hours ago, angy15 said:

Whether its Ranjit Singh or Jarnail Singh  there interpretation has to pass through these lines.

ਜੋ ਸ਼ਬਦ /ਵਿਚਾਰ ਗੁਰੂ 'ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ' ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ 'ਤੇ ਪੂਰੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਤਰਦੀ, ਉਹ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਸਵਾਹ ਹੈ.

 

Whether its you as well. So where in SGGS does it say that Brahmanism is a virus @angy15?

 

What about your pathetic interpretation that omitted the word “Nanak “ ? Did that meet the Kasvati of SGGS?

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 5:50 AM, angy15 said:

You are no match to his intellect .You will never understand his work.

Dhillon talks a load of codswallop and he's intellect is an insult to gurbani.  Does he know what shabad is?  Does Dhadri?

 

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:33 AM, chatanga1 said:

I understand his work, and his intellect is fake. There are certain topics where I would easily tear his fake intellect apart

I second that and would  shred his genius into a corner.

 @angy15  This has noting to do with taksal vs dhadri and your assumption, that members here are outright taksal supporters.  'I'm responding because of the severity of manmat and anti-gurmat by Dhadri clan, and your esteem for Dhillon. I have no association with any samparda, jatha, taksal, akj, nanasar, Nihangs etc.  
 

On top of this, you went and presented the below tuk with a deliberate misinterpretation. 

Quote

 

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥
Jab Lag Dhuneeaa Reheeai Naanak Kishh Suneeai Kishh Keheeai ||

As long as one lives in this world  one must listen  to others and express oneself to the others (to find the truth).

 

I would be happy to show you the depths and deeper meaning of above tuk and shabad , and prove to you that it has nothing to do with listening and expressing to fellow debaters.

 

You should realize where I'm coming from and be prepared to learn a thing or two about the "core" of sikhi.

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20 hours ago, Lucky said:

Dhillon talks a load of codswallop and he's intellect is an insult to gurbani.  Does he know what shabad is?  Does Dhadri?

 

I second that and would  shred his genius into a corner.

 @angy15  This has noting to do with taksal vs dhadri and your assumption, that members here are outright taksal supporters.  'I'm responding because of the severity of manmat and anti-gurmat by Dhadri clan, and your esteem for Dhillon. I have no association with any samparda, jatha, taksal, akj, nanasar, Nihangs etc.  
 

On top of this, you went and presented the below tuk with a deliberate misinterpretation. 

I would be happy to show you the depths and deeper meaning of above tuk and shabad , and prove to you that it has nothing to do with listening and expressing to fellow debaters.

 

You should realize where I'm coming from and be prepared to learn a thing or two about the "core" of sikhi.

I am sorry for you being so ignorant .They have never said anything against Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

But yes they question  against some practices and rituals which are being done in the name of religion.  

SGGS does not consider it anti Gurmat .So stop blaming them.

Dhumma is no match to Sant Jarnail Singh.He is more of a Political gigure rather than Relgious preacher  just a puppet of the Central Governemnt. His main  role and responsibility was to to prachar. You will hardly see him doing katha of SGGS .

 

 

 

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On 7/2/2018 at 1:43 PM, Lucky said:

Dhillon talks a load of codswallop and he's intellect is an insult to gurbani.  Does he know what shabad is?  Does Dhadri?

 I don't know  where that logic comes from.They have never spoken ill abt the contents and teaching of SGGS.

Regarding Dr Dhillion and other great scholars  ,its the usual faith of every scholars.Its not an exception but rule that scholar is  bound to be misunderstood  for a simple reason they are sometime far ahead of time.

If you guys hate them so much beacuse you believe they speak anti Gurmat then why not use that magic stick which Guru Har Krishan Ji used  on chajju Ram .BTW which sant/Baba has that magic stick?

May be they can understand the gist of Gurbani then!!!

Satnam 

 

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On 6/27/2018 at 5:48 PM, angy15 said:

No he has nothing to say abt the practices of his fellow  sikhs so all he is struck with  one word . If these videos posted are not Brahmanism ritualistic practices  what are these .You please study ancient Vedas and you will find these practices  

 

If you want a debate then define the words. I can say everything you're saying is Brahmanism, all you're doing is throwing words around as you dont have a leg to stand on. We're not asking for other people's definition, we're asking for yours. 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

 I don't what you are talking abt.They have never spoken ill abt the contents and teaching of SGGS.

So you're fine if they speak ill about the writings of Bhai Gurdas Ji? or Sri Dasam Granth Ji (let me guess, the Dasam Granth was a Brahmin's rouse to lead the sikhs astray blah blah blah). 

Quote

Regarding Dr Dhillion and other great scholars  ,its the usual faith of every scholars.Its not an exception but rule that scholar is  bound to be misunderstood  for a simple reason they are sometime far ahead of time.

"Great" Scholars is actually hilarious. You've yet to answer my question. You started talking about Science so tell me, if Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared before you and said the world is flat and only 700 years old, what would you say?

Ahead of his time? What a load of nonsense. Texts dating back well before the british take over of the Sikh empire all state the same things as the texts written during it. The funny thing is Dhillon is so far up his own rear end he dismisses anything written prior to Singh Sabha that doesn't agree with him. That dude is about ahead of his time as the Catholic church was in medieval times.

Quote

 If you guys hate them so much beacuse you believe they speak anti Gurmat then why not use that magic stick which Guru Har Krishan Ji used  on chajju Ram .BTW which sant/Baba has that magic stick?

The fact that you quoted this Sakhi (I asked you for the source of your version and im still waiting for it btw) and still don't realise that the stick wasn't magic because it was a magic stick but powerful because it was held by Guru Ji, is another sign that you have no idea what you're talking about. 

So...I'll recap for you since its apparent you lack the intelligence to read things and stay on topic. My questions are the following for you, please answer them as simply as possible (I'm sure that won't be too hard). If you refuse to do so, I'll take it you have no reply. 

1) What is your defination of Brahmanism?

2) if Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared before you and said the world is flat and only 700 years old, what would you say? Would you say "Yes Guru Ji you are right" or something else?

3) The Sakhi about Guru HarKrishan Ji, please provide the source for your one. Thank you. 

4) Bhai Gurdas Ji said that in the presence of a congregation Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and disappeared. Was Bhai Gurdas Ji making stuff up in your professional opinion?

 

Quote

Satnam

That's is also Brahmanism as Brahmins used that phrase long before Sikhs.

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7 hours ago, angy15 said:

I am sorry for you being so ignorant

Then enlighten him. If you truly are sorry for his ignorance (and mine I hope) then please enlighten us. We have both now asked you to define brahmanism. It is not a virus, so please give us the correct answer and remove our ignorance.

Are you sorry that I have had to ask you this question 10 times now?

 

7 hours ago, angy15 said:

But yes they question  against some practices and rituals which are being done in the name of religion.

Nothing wrong with questioning. Where they and YOU go wrong is the answering.

1 question. Asked 10 times.

 

7 hours ago, angy15 said:

Dhumma is no match to Sant Jarnail Singh.

Who is a match to Jarnail Singh?

 

7 hours ago, angy15 said:

just a puppet of the Central Governemnt.

OK, tell us how. Remove our ignorance.

 

7 hours ago, angy15 said:

You will hardly see him doing katha of SGGS .

Well what does "hardly" mean? Does it mean once a week, once a month, 2 times a day?

 

2 hours ago, angy15 said:

They have never spoken ill abt the contents and teaching of SGGS.

Yes they have. Dhadhri has mislead a lot of people with his "ant kal jo..." nonsense.

You omitted the name of "Nanak" in distorting teaching of SGGS.

 

2 hours ago, angy15 said:

Regarding Dr Dhillion and other great scholars  ,its the usual faith of every scholars.Its not an exception but rule that scholar is  bound to be misunderstood  for a simple reason they are sometime far ahead of time.

Dhillon said brahmanism is a virus but its a lie. How far ahead of time do you think this great scholar is?

 

2 hours ago, angy15 said:

If you guys hate them so much beacuse you believe they speak anti Gurmat then why not use that magic stick which Guru Har Krishan Ji used  on chajju Ram

Why get the magic stick? We can just ask you some simple questions on this forum can't we?

And get a straight answer as well?

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On 6/26/2018 at 1:05 PM, angy15 said:

Do you find any similarity between these images .

The picture on the left was one  of the central rites of Brahmanism(done by bhramin hindu) during the ancient  time .One of the vedas text mentions it as

The Tipiñaka records one sacrifice conducted by a brahmin named Uggatasarãra during which `five hundred bulls, five hundred steers and numerous heifers, goats and rams were brought to the sacrificial post for slaughter' (A.IV,41). 

What appears on the right appears to be the same  practice/tradition  continuing.Now why not  call them keshdhari Brahmins

BTW on lighter note you profile pic also has a goat in it . I hope you  dont' belong to the  same school of thoughts as them.😉

Image result for Goat sacrificeimage.jpeg.63a57534ea6cd263beb6de0a57007285.jpeg

 I guess its very hard for you guys to digest this. 

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3 hours ago, angy15 said:

 I guess its very hard for you guys to digest this. 

No it’s not hard at all. I can easily explain it. But not until I know what brahmanism is. Please remove my ignorance on what brahmanism is. 

 

11th time I am directly asking you to define “brahmanism.” 

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