Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs

[Reader]

11 hours ago, angy15 said:

I had said what is the stand of missionaries is on miricales

 

Corrected this for you.

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o many self contradictions in your reply .i can feel arrogance and frustrations in your reply.

Again you have proved that you believe Sikh religion being a miraculous and ritualistic religion like hindu religion

become an atheist then. They follow the exact same principles as you, minus God. You'll love it there. 

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ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

Do you see that tukh? the one you always seem to overlook in your example. That alone shows you can't be arsed reading Gurbani properly yet you're coming here lecturing others on it. The verse is critisizing those that use Sidhis to make other people be impressed by that.  ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ <--- see that? not rocket science. 

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Doesn't make sense because  Hukam and miracle  are opposite of each other.

Nothing is outside of Hukam, Everything that happens is within hukam, go and try and defy God, you can't as you're bound by his rules. Not yours.

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 How foolish the theory is.Nanak performed some miricale to prove a point to a Phir somewhere near mecca  to show his son  some worlds and bringing back some food from somewhere from outer space .

 But same  Guru Nanak  did not perform any miracles  when Darbar Sahib was attacked innocent Sikhs were killed.

Its purely a mythical adultered  story

More stupid nonsense from Dhadariwala's wife I see. Firstly those are 2 different incidents, trying to put them together is like trying to compare world war 2 to a live debate on tv. Guru Ji demonstrated his power to prove a point to the Pir, He didn't do it to cause the Pir to become impressed, he did it purely to show the infinite nature of God's creation. The Pir was a devout man, he was also pious and open minded. Hence why Guru Ji showed him this to put him straight. 

The Darbar Sahib incident is different altogether. Firstly, That's like having a rich friend (with Sidhis in this case) who you run to and ask to do everything, he does so but that makes you less autonomous.  Guru Ji wanted his ordinary Sikhs (see the word ordinary) to be able to stand up against Tyranny and fight. Ordinary folks cant work anything so they rely on their weapons and shashters. 

Funny how you mention the attack on Darbar Sahib, the person defending it was a Taksali who believed what I'm saying, in-fact there is katha by him online. Look it up. SO where were you and your missionary buddies when Harmandhir Sahib was attacked? Dhandariawala crapped himself when someone shot at him, he ran and hid like a coward. What an amazing Sikh! you seem to want lick his feet from the way you feverishly defend him yet he still ran, defecated and also sat around afraid. Meanwhile you've sat here calling Taksalis horrible things when one of the Jathedhars of Taksal defended Harmandhir Sahib and faced an army. Dhandriwala's biggest enemy seems to be his own bowels.

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This is very bizzare .No sense in this argument. What rehat was followed before Guru Gobind Sing.please tell the audience.What rehat Kabir,Farid  and Bhatts had?Were they sikh? .

Dont answer my question with a question. Answer me this, find me the tukh in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says the following. 

1) Keep Kakars

2) Take Amrit as prepared by Guru Gobind Singh Ji

3) Keep Kesh at all times.

4) where does it say we have to do Metha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not turn our backs to it. BY your own definitions this is idol worship.

Go for it. I'm waiting.

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 Let me make it clear to you even after taking amrit you are not pure sikh as long as you dont follow the teaching  of SGGS .Taking amrit  alone doen't define a sikh .

Finally, something that makes sense from you.

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 Regarding the varaan 1 pauri 36(corrupted)  please tell us what is the spiritual message /nourishment do you get .

Corrupt how? you call it corrupt and insult Bhai Gurdas Ji because you're so deluded in your own ego that you think you have Sikhi penned down. The original varan exist and are in the reference library, the sakhi is within them, this Sakhi has been traced by all through history, it's in Suraj Prakash Granth, Panth Prakash (I believe), Bhai Mani Singh Ji's Janam Sakhis, Bhai Bala Ji's janamasakhis, they all contain it. You want proof well here it is. Read it and weep. All you've shown here is that you missionaries want to throw out anything you don't like. 

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ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

Dont cut apart Gurbani and then throw it in there to try and give a different message. 

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Brother Miracles are mostly fiction .They are opposite of hukum as it means nature /God is not trustworthy .GURMAT is all abt HUKUM and BANNA.

Dear Wife of Dhandariawala. What is real and what is not, that  only  God knows. There's nothing he can't do,  You've still not answered my question. btw. So I'll ask you again since its apparent you seem to shy away from these things. 

This is a thought experiment and it should completely decipher where your loyalties lie. 

 

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I have a question for you, this should be simple enough and should tell you who you'll believe. 

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

 

[angy15]

39 minutes ago, Reader said:

Dont answer my question with a question. Answer me this, find me the tukh in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says the following. 

1) Keep Kakars

2) Take Amrit as prepared by Guru Gobind Singh Ji

3) Keep Kesh at all times.

4) where does it say we have to do Metha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not turn our backs to it. BY your own definitions this is idol worship.

Go for it. I'm waiting.

Your Answers lies in the question itself the problem you are not able to digest it.

You tell me which of three  points  were followed before Guru Gobind Singh.

 

 

[angy15]

49 minutes ago, Reader said:

this Sakhi has been traced by all through history, it's in Suraj Prakash Granth, Panth Prakash (I believe), Bhai Mani Singh Ji's Janam Sakhis, Bhai Bala Ji's

You are a true keshadhari banarasi  Brahmin fascinated with rope snake tricks.

[Reader]

35 minutes ago, angy15 said:

Your Answers lies in the question itself the problem you are not able to digest it.

You tell me which of three  points  were followed before Guru Gobind Singh.

 

 

You're not answering my question. Find me the tukhs, now. Go on, go and look through Gurbani , if my answer is in my question then you'll find it in Gurbani too. Find me tukhs in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI that say we have to keep Kesh, we have to keep kakars, we have to take Amrit as Guru Gobind SIngh Ji ordained, we have to do Metha Tekh to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, find me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it says that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru of the Sikhs. Find me the proof, find me the references in Gurbani. You were crying on another thread about wanting references so put your money where your mouth is wife of Dhadariwala. Find me these references, show us oh great one your amazing grasp of Gurbani.

 

31 minutes ago, angy15 said:

You are a true keshadhari banarasi  Brahmin fascinated with rope snake tricks.

Why won't you answer my question though? 

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

[angy15]

7 hours ago, Reader said:

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

What a dumb question you have asked.Gurbani is never written on assumptions which otherwise in further will be proven  wrong.

If we assume for your sake of argument  that gurbani says Earth is flat and science proofs earth is round.offcourse any wise man will Believe gurbani is wrong.

But it's a ridiculous hypothesis you are making.

[angy15]

12 hours ago, angy15 said:

Dont answer my question with a question. Answer me this, find me the tukh in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says the following. 

1) Keep Kakars

2) Take Amrit as prepared by Guru Gobind Singh Ji

3) Keep Kesh at all times.

4) where does it say we have to do Metha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not turn our backs to it. BY your own definitions this is idol worship.

Go for it. I'm waiting.

So you have drifted away from Miracles to rehat and its presence in SGGS.You have not answered the shabads which mentions rejecting these miracles.

I now you pujari are always nervous to discuss shabads from the gurbani.What you are doing is discussing something which is not mentioned in Gurbani .Your desperation to for the proof says it

all.

Now coming to your  questions .Lets take first three

When you asking for tukhs to prove your  its shows total arrogance on your side regarding understanding of Gurbani.

SGGS has a universal spiritual message  which imparts guidance and assistance to not only sikhs but to all humanity:Khalsa rehat is kept outside as Hindus ,Muslim will be more comfortable to accept gurbani without a belief/rehat .

SGGS p 1299 (Rag Kaanra M: 5)

ਨਾ ਕੋ ਬੈਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਗਾਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਗਿ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ ॥੧॥

Naa Ko Bairee Nehee Bigaanaa Sagal Sang Ham Ko Ban Aaee ||1||

No one is my enemy, and no one is a stranger.

I get along with everyone. ||1||

SGGS p 1349 (Rag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir)

ਏਕ ਨੂਰ ਤੇ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥

Eaek Noor Thae Sabh Jag Oupajiaa Koun Bhalae Ko Mandhae ||1||

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up.

Who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

 

Verses like these in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji explain it all — that our Guru ji is all embracing. All are equal in his eyes. Our own deeds and spiritual  values define whether we are a loving human being or not .

We know that Sikhi is for the within and that Sikhi has elements for the external as well. The context now is to affirm that in Sikhi what is within is more important than the external appearance.  So lets look  more Gurbani verses for guidance.

SGGS p 476 (Rag Asa Bhagat Kabir)

ਗਜ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੈ ਤੈ ਧੋਤੀਆ ਤਿਹਰੇ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਤਗ ॥

Gaj Saadtae Thai Thai Dhhotheeaa Thiharae Paaein Thag ||

They wear three-and-half-yard long loin-cloths and triple-wound sacred threads.

ਗਲੀ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਜਪਮਾਲੀਆ ਲੋਟੇ ਹਥਿ ਨਿਬਗ ॥

Galee Jinhaa Japamaaleeaa Lottae Hathh Nibag ||

They have rosaries around their necks, and they carry glittering jugs in their hands.

ਓਇ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਸੰਤ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਬਾਨਾਰਸਿ ਕੇ ਠਗ ॥੧॥

Oue Har Kae Santh N Aakheeahi Baanaaras Kae Thag ||1||

They are not called Saints of the Lord – they are thugs of Benares. ||1||

Here the external emblems – clothes and religious symbols  – all are critiqued as being pretentious if we don’t have God within us. 

Above verse is not only  applies to  hindus but also for rehat keeping sikhs

In pauree 27 and 28 of Japji the outer symbols and ‘rehat’ of the yogis is discussed and the conclusion is that what is within (values such as santokh and saram) are paramount and of higher standing in the eyes of God than the external symbols themselves.

Yes there is Khalsa rehat which  outside the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sikhs accept it .It  might not be acceptable to Hindus and Muslim but still they want to follow the message of SGGS.

So this is the reason rehat is not mentioned because it will take away the universal essence and will be limited to sikhs only.

Says Kabeer, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord; I teach both Hindus and Muslims. ((4)(4)(13))

SGGS Page 479

This anwers your first three questions

Now the fourth question "4) where does it say we have to do Metha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not turn our backs to it. BY your own definitions this is idol worship."

Don't force these assumption on someone .

Again lets ask this question to Guruji  and this is what he  says

SGGS P 594 (Salok M: 3)

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨੋ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਜੇਤਾ ਜਗਤੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥

Sathigur No Sabh Ko Vaekhadhaa Jaethaa Jagath Sansaar ||

All the living beings of the world behold the True Guru.

ਡਿਠੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

Ddithai Mukath N Hovee Jichar Sabadh N Karae Veechaar ||

One is not liberated by merely seeing Him, unless one contemplates the Word of His Shabad.

So   message is clear  if vichaar of the shabad is not done than bowing in front is merely a idol worship .

In fact this verse altogether important for Taksali ideology  who have their foundation on ritual practices of Gurmat .

So this answers your fourth questions.

 

[angy15]

13 hours ago, Reader said:

Guru Ji demonstrated his power to prove a point to the Pir, He didn't do it to cause the Pir to become impressed, he did it purely to show the infinite nature of God's creation.

Only shows where your belief is coming from  A Typical banarasi Pujari reply  you have given. If at all was to prove a point he would have done it  through vichar and bibek buddhi and Not by showing karamat .Go and read Sidh Ghosht and educate yourself .

 

[chatanga1]

4 hours ago, angy15 said:

What a dumb question you have asked.Gurbani is never written on assumptions which otherwise in further will be proven  wrong.

[DeNiro]

@angy15

Dear Angie, 

After reading through some responses, I can't help this one question that keeps drawing near me; and that is "Do you do any simran?".  Before someone starts to define  meaning of simran to what suits them, By simran, I mean jap naam, jap waheguru mantar.? You can call it meditation or whatever you want but I'm referring to the process of chanting waheguru in harmony with breath or in a quiet meditation.t

So, do you practice what I mean by simran? Have you ever done simran?

 

[angy15]

10 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

So what is the point you are making.

 

[angy15]

8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

@angy15

Dear Angie, 

After reading through some responses, I can't help this one question that keeps drawing near me; and that is "Do you do any simran?".  Before someone starts to define  meaning of simran to what suits them, By simran, I mean jap naam, jap waheguru mantar.? You can call it meditation or whatever you want but I'm referring to the process of chanting waheguru in harmony with breath or in a quiet meditation.t

So, do you practice what I mean by simran? Have you ever done simran?

 

Why you ask that? what has this related to the topic

[angy15]

@DeNiro

It would be better you  discuss in regards to Topic of Discussion which is Dhandrianwala Vs Akauthi Taksali . i am not intereseted to discuss my personnel sadhana with you .

 

[angy15]

  @DeNiro, @chatanga1, @Reader

Let  me ask you  do you  accept Akal Takht parvanith "SIKH REHAT MARYADA ".

Yes or No.

Second question related to this forum

Do you agree with Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadriyanwala proposal of EK SIKH REHAT Maryada.

 

I want all you three please answer .Let us see where you guys stand regarding SRM .

 

[angy15]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

@angy15

Dear Angie, 

After reading through some responses, I can't help this one question that keeps drawing near me; and that is "Do you do any simran?".  Before someone starts to define  meaning of simran to what suits them, By simran, I mean jap naam, jap waheguru mantar.? You can call it meditation or whatever you want but I'm referring to the process of chanting waheguru in harmony with breath or in a quiet meditation.t

So, do you practice what I mean by simran? Have you ever done simran?

 

It seems you have doing lot of simran and must have attained brahmgyan and also attained miraculous powers and also believe in Karamat .Why dont you show some karamaat  to us. My choice of karamat would be in regards to  Varan 1 pauri 36 taking me to to other worlds and bring back sacred food ha ha ha no  oranges back

Also you have not answered   How   Red is the heaviest color in maya? .Is it your brahmgyan or a borrowed knowledge.

[chatanga1]

25 minutes ago, angy15 said:

@DeNiro, @chatanga1, @Reader

Let  me ask you 

Mr "healthy debate and discussion" angy. Do not ask me anything. I had to ask you one question 12 times before you responded, and others have had to ask you multiple times as well. Respond to my posts without questions, otherwise just like I was you will be wasting your time. Kapiche Mr Healthy discussion?

 

 

[angy15]

Just now, chatanga1 said:

Mr "healthy debate and discussion" angy. Do not ask me anything. I had to ask you one question 12 times before you responded, and others have had to ask you multiple times as well. Respond to my posts without questions, otherwise just like I was you will be wasting your time. Kapiche Mr Healthy discussion? 

 

 

So don't reply to my response either . I am not interested to debate with pujaris like you .

[chatanga1]

On 10/9/2018 at 6:37 AM, angy15 said:

ts not abt they can't .They have rejected the miracles altogether :

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥

Sidhh Hovaa Sidhh Laaee Ridhh Aakhaa Aao ||

If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧) ੩:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪ ਪੰ. ੬
Sri Raag Guru Nanak Dev

ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

Gupath Paragatt Hoe Baisaa Lok Raakhai Bhaao ||

And become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧) ੩:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪ ਪੰ. ੭
Sri Raag Guru Nanak Dev

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

Math Dhaekh Bhoolaa Veesarai Thaeraa Chith N Aavai Naao ||3||

-seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||

 

The whole shabad from SGGS is:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥

ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥

ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਧਰਤੀ ਤ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥

ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ ॥

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥

 

This shabad has nothing to do with miracles being good or bad. The shabad is about how GREAT Nam is. The Naam  of Karta Purkh. Guru Nanak Dev is saying here that no matter what wealth one has, no matter what spiritual powers one has, no matter what worldy powers one has, if they entice the soul away from Sri Karta Purakh, then Guru Sahib doesn't want them.

 

On a side note, Guru Sahib is also saying here that miracles DO exist. Guru Sahib is telling us that Siddhs are capable of doing miracles, but nowhere has Guru Sahib said they are against Sri Akaal. Guru Sahib is simply saying they are not desirable if they take one away from Sri Akaal.

This is the difference between the Gurus doing miracles and the Siddhs doing miracles. Guru Sahib's didn't perform miracles to join people to their own following but to enjoin people to recognise the purpose of their lives. The Siddhs did it to make people their personal followers.

 

A resident on this forum described dhadri chele/missionaries as parasites. I'm understand why when these parasites are presenting Gurbani with their warped vision.

 

 

[chatanga1]

On 9/24/2018 at 3:33 PM, angy15 said:

Another Video exposing Taksali  Anti Sikh  Marayada.  Shame !!

 

 

This video is 100% reflective of the parasite ghaghri/ missionary combine.

Dhunda takes great pleasure in asking why isn't everything in green rejected, like green fields, food, etc. Just like the parasite he is, he takes a sentence, flips it and comes out with this glitzy speech on the colour green in nature. The issue is nothing to do with the colour green regarding foods and such, but clothing. The clothes a person wears makes a statement about themselves. This is the essence of the discussion. Dhunda, the parasite, makes a fool of himself. No wonder these people can never sit down to discuss such matters with others.

 

 

[angy15]

22 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

The whole shabad from SGGS is:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥

ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥

ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਧਰਤੀ ਤ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥

ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ ॥

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ ॥

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥

 

This shabad has nothing to do with miracles being good or bad. The shabad is about how GREAT Nam is. The Naam  of Karta Purkh. Guru Nanak Dev is saying here that no matter what wealth one has, no matter what spiritual powers one has, no matter what worldy powers one has, if they entice the soul away from Sri Karta Purakh, then Guru Sahib doesn't want them.

 

On a side note, Guru Sahib is also saying here that miracles DO exist. Guru Sahib is telling us that Siddhs are capable of doing miracles, but nowhere has Guru Sahib said they are against Sri Akaal. Guru Sahib is simply saying they are not desirable if they take one away from Sri Akaal.

This is the difference between the Gurus doing miracles and the Siddhs doing miracles. Guru Sahib's didn't perform miracles to join people to their own following but to enjoin people to recognise the purpose of their lives. The Siddhs did it to make people their personal followers.

 

A resident on this forum described dhadri chele/missionaries as parasites. I'm understand why when these parasites are presenting Gurbani with their warped vision.

 

 

Is it for me?

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

SGGS p 1349 (Rag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir)

ਏਕ ਨੂਰ ਤੇ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥

Eaek Noor Thae Sabh Jag Oupajiaa Koun Bhalae Ko Mandhae ||1||

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up.

Who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

If we look at the line just before the one you have posted it says :

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ॥

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਲਹ ਨੂਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਸਭ ਬੰਦੇ ॥

ਏਕ ਨੂਰ ਤੇ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥

 

which means "first Allah from his light created kudrat and then all men."

Which tells us that kudrat is a creation of Sri Akaal. However Dhadriwala says that Kudrat is God. Gurbani says that kudrat is a creation of God.

Then reading on from this shabad the next line says:

"ਲੋਗਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਨ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥

ਖਾਲਿਕੁ  ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥"

which means that "people don't get confused over this, the Creator resides in his creation, and the creation is in the Creator. He is everywhere"

 

This shabad tells us that at one time, there was NO kudrat, there was NO man. If according to Dhadrianwala kudrat is God, then there was a time when God did not exist, which is against the Mool Mantar/Gurbani.

 

The whole shabad:

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ॥

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਲਹ ਨੂਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਸਭ ਬੰਦੇ ॥

ਏਕ ਨੂਰ ਤੇ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਕਉਨ ਭਲੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੧॥

ਲੋਗਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਨ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥

ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਜੀ ਸਾਜਨਹਾਰੈ ॥

ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਪੋਚ ਮਾਟੀ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਪੋਚ ਕੁੰਭਾਰੈ ॥੨॥

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਸਚਾ ਏਕੋ ਸੋਈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਈ ॥

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਨੈ ਸੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਨੈ ਬੰਦਾ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥

ਅਲਹੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਲਖਿਆ ਗੁਰਿ ਗੁੜੁ ਦੀਨਾ ਮੀਠਾ ॥

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮੇਰੀ ਸੰਕਾ ਨਾਸੀ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਡੀਠਾ ॥੪॥੩॥

 

Let's look at the end line. Bhagat Kabir Sahib says "my doubts have been dispelled". Bhagat Kabir here is telling us about how the whole kudrat and it's inhabitants are created by Allah. But if Dhadriwala can claim kudrat is God, men can also claim to be God. Men do claim to be God don't they?

 

 

 

 

[chatanga1]

35 minutes ago, angy15 said:

So don't reply to my response either . I am not interested to debate with pujaris like you .

 

4 minutes ago, angy15 said:

Is it for me?

 

[chatanga1]

On 10/6/2018 at 6:21 PM, angy15 said:

Attack on dandriamwala in USA

Not only is the cult leader crying and hiding in a room afraid of "healthy debate and discussion" but his poor chele are crying on the internet.

 

Jaswinder Singh did the right thing by videoing everything so that the sangat can make up their own mind.

The Queen Parasite Dhadhri stayed hidden in his room, because he was too afraid to discuss Gurmat with others.

 

On 10/6/2018 at 6:21 PM, angy15 said:

Attack on dandriamwala in USA by few handfull

 

This makes me laugh so much. Only a few days ago Queen Parasite was saying "stand on your own feet" when it comes to healthy debate amd discussion, but when it's his own turn he is too afraid to come out of a room he is hiding in because of " A FEW HANDFULL" of people.

 

 

 

On 10/6/2018 at 6:21 PM, angy15 said:

 

[chatanga1]

On 9/27/2018 at 7:41 AM, angy15 said:

And in relation to word SANT  it is not linked to an individual as per SGGS

In Kirtan Sohila, Sikhs read:

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਕਰਉ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਸੰਤ ਟਹਲ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥

ਈਹਾ ਖਾਟਿ ਚਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਹਾ ਆਗੈ ਬਸਨੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥

ਅਉਧ ਘਟੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰੈਣਾਰੇ ॥ ਮਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਬਿਕਾਰੁ ਸੰਸੇ ਮਹਿ ਤਰਿਓ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਜਿਸਹਿ ਜਗਾਇ ਪੀਆਵੈ ਇਹੁ ਰਸੁ ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੨॥

ਜਾ ਕਉ ਆਏ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਹਾਝਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥

ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥

ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਿਧਾਤੇ ਸਰਧਾ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਰੇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸੁ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਧੂਰੇ ॥੪॥੫॥

 

This is a direct reference to human saints. If it were a reference to Sri Akaal Purkh it would not be plural. Also if it were a reference to Sri Akaal Purkh, how does one become the dust of Him?

 

In Gurbani the word "Sant" can be a reference to Sri Raghunath, or also to human saints as well. 

 

Bhagat Kabir Sahib writes:

 

ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ॥

ਅਸਥਾਵਰ ਜੰਗਮ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥

ਅਨਿਕ ਜਨਮ ਕੀਏ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥

ਐਸੇ ਘਰ ਹਮ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਸਾਏ ॥

ਜਬ ਹਮ ਰਾਮ ਗਰਭ ਹੋਇ ਆਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਤਪੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਚਾਰੀ ॥

ਕਬਹੂ ਰਾਜਾ ਛਤ੍ਰਪਤਿ ਕਬਹੂ ਭੇਖਾਰੀ ॥੨॥

ਸਾਕਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਜੀਵਹਿ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਨੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਪੀਵਹਿ ॥੩॥

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

ਹਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ਅਬ ਪੂਰਾ ਦੀਜੈ ॥੪॥੧੩॥

 

Why would Bhagat Kabir Sahib write "all the saints" when Bhagat Sahib knows there is only One Noor?

 

 

 

 

[angy15]

Some members in this forum are of the opinion miracle is part of Gurmat  But The sacrifices of our Gurus  shows us  otherwise.Cling to the belief in miracles, then we are undermining, mocking and degrading our Gurus out of our sheer arrogance which is laced with a lot of ignorance . Can you just imagine how Guru Arjan was put on hot plate  and tortured to death .The walls built around Chota Sahibzadey bury them alive beheading  our ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadar  all these were the true miracles which our  Guru performed.

Not the petty road side magic tricks thanks to our deras taksalis babas of  going for a joy ride on some disney land somewhere in outer space bringing some scared food and oranges  .Ridiculous

Sadly these miracles were  imported  by Nirmalas  into the Sikh way of life from Hinduism and the other Semitic religions  (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), where they are used regularly as snake-oil rub for all cures.

It is irrelevant, insignificant and unimportant what some members think abt miracles . The reason being that the Sikhi way of life is idea-based, not personality-based, and it is my honour and privilege to follow what Guru Nanak taught me re how to lead a life of a seeker through Naam Japna, Kirat karni and Vand ke Chhaknah .

 

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Some members in this forum are of the opinion miracle is part of Gurmat 

No members are of the opinion that miracles are a part of Gurmat. Others can speak for themselves but I beleive that miracles can and do happen, and have happened. This belief is based on Gurbani, and the above post which expanded on a shabad you distorted, has told clearly that miracles are possible.

 

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

But The sacrifices of our Gurus  shows us  otherwise.

Sacrifices are different from  miracles. I sacrifice my time, responding to parasitic interpretation of my Guru's teachings. That is not a miracle.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Cling to the belief in miracles, then we are undermining, mocking and degrading our Gurus out of our sheer arrogance which is laced with a lot of ignorance .

We only undermine. mock etc when we disregard the Guru's teachings, like you are doing. Like Dhadhri has done by saying "births and deaths are in the mind" etc.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Can you just imagine how Guru Arjan was put on hot plate  and tortured to death .The walls built around Chota Sahibzadey bury them alive beheading  our ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadar  all these were the true miracles which our  Guru performed.

Being tortured, being killed or dying are NOT miracles. We live and die, repeatedly according to Gurbani. This is a fact of live. Gurbani says that whatever is born will die.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Sadly these miracles were  imported  by Nirmalas  into the Sikh way of life from Hinduism and the other Semitic religions  (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), where they are used regularly as snake-oil rub for all cures.

Why sadly? Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Nirmala. Guru Sahib performed miracles time and time again. Its not anybody elses fault that you are degrading the Gurus out of sheer arrogance laced your dhadris ignorance.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

It is irrelevant, insignificant and unimportant what some members think abt miracles .

Yet you have tried to foist your own interpretation of miracles on others. Whilst admitting it is irrelevant.

 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

The reason being that the Sikhi way of life is idea-based, not personality-based, and it is my honour and privilege to follow what Guru Nanak taught me re how to lead a life of a seeker through Naam Japna, Kirat karni and Vand ke Chhaknah .

Sikhi way of life is not idea-based. Ideas are just that. Ideas.

You talk about arrogance yet state that the Gurus have based Gurmat on their ideas. Yet Gurbani states that "Whatever has come to me through the Lord, I state it to you O Lalo."  Gurmat is a divine-ordained way of life centered on faith in the Guru. I dont know what honour you perceive yourself to have when you are telling lies about the  Gurus, distorting Gurbani etc.

You call it a privilege to follow what Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught yet omit the Guru's name to translate Guru Ji's words.