Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs

[angy15]

4 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

You are looking at it with dhadhris uneducated cult vision. I have only posted what SGGS clearly says. It's not my fault if ghaghri is more important to you than gurbani itself. 

There is no video of his to my knowledge so stop presuming .You have pasted SGGS shabad but your  translations is not as per Nanal Philosophy

[chatanga1]

1 minute ago, angy15 said:

Its a  healthy debate  regarding evolution  of man .You can't assume its false analogy  you have to prove it.

Evolution of man needs abortions?

 

1 minute ago, angy15 said:

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ Simple logic Abortion means unfavorable mutations are either mutated in the womb or die after birth who cannot survive the outside envioronment

Dear oh dear.

For all your talk of evolution, a "healthy debate" with you makes me think you haven't even evolved past those things with tails that like bananas.

[angy15]

1 minute ago, chatanga1 said:

No Sikhs who have faith in Gurbani will unite with some uneducated singer wearing flamboyant gay costumes. You can call my kind of Sikhs whatever you want, it doesn't matter. After all you slander the Gurus and Gurbani, so why should it make a difference if you call me a brahman, or even a maulvi?

 

And you are fighting the Gurus and Gurbani to keep the pyjama soiling cowards in Audi's, and parade queen costumes.

 

 

And there we go. Agai you have made the switch from distorting Gurbani to some so-called ek rehat maryada.

This reply is total out of context. Reply appropiately in context of the message.

EK Single Rehat Mariyada .Why Taksal brigade oppose it.

[chatanga1]

2 minutes ago, angy15 said:

There is no video of his to my knowledge so stop presuming .You have pasted SGGS shabad but your  translations is not as per Nanal Philosophy

Well then you need to get clued up on your cult leader before brown-nosing.

 

Just now, angy15 said:

This reply is total out of context. Reply appropiately in context of the message.

EK Single Rehat Mariyada .Why Taksal brigade oppose it.

Your "healthy debate" is IN context???? Like parasite missionaries/ghaghri gay fanboys you throw anything and everything in these "healthy debates" to try and prove a point. Even to the extent of removing Guru Sahib's name from gurbani.

[angy15]

 

2 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Evolution of man needs abortions?

Evolution  of man through different stages  from DNA to single cell organism to multicellular organism to complex animal and finally evolved man.

[angy15]

1 minute ago, chatanga1 said:

Well then you need to get clued up on your cult leader before brown-nosing.

 

Your "healthy debate" is IN context???? Like parasite missionaries/ghaghri gay fanboys you throw anything and everything in these "healthy debates" to try and prove a point. Even to the extent of removing Guru Sahib's name from gurbani. 

  i am surely  debating with a Hindu pujari . suffering from Dhahdariphobia.

[angy15]

Just now, angy15 said:

Even to the extent of removing Guru Sahib's name from gurbani. 

Come out of medieval times. Hiding youself  behind it.

[chatanga1]

Just now, angy15 said:

  i am surely  debating with a Hindu pujari . suffering from Dhahdariphobia.

You're not just debating....you are "having a healthy debate"....

[chatanga1]

40 minutes ago, angy15 said:

 

Evolution  of man through different stages  from DNA to single cell organism to multicellular organism to complex animal and finally evolved man.

Abortions are not part of evolution of man. 

[angy15]

41 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Abortions are not part of evolution of man.  

Sorry please explain I  am not getting it.

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Even if we were to entertain this false notion that a man who was greedy then took on the features of a snake, how would a man take on the features of an aborted foetus/worm/rock/mountain?  :

Paaji, IMHO, you are loosing the plot a bit at times in this discussion. The interpretation that a greedy person takes on the features of a snake is correct too, but it is one of the interpretations of that verse. If one claims that this is the only correct interpretation of that verse, then something is wrong with him.

For example, you asked about how a man can take on the features of rock, mountain, etc. Look at one of the interpretations of the verse below, which describes how an advanced spiritual aspirant takes on the qualities, represented by earth, bull and the sky.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 6/18/2018 at 11:40 AM, paapiman said:

@angy15 - Let's focus on Dhadri's activities. Please review the clips below and decide for yourself whether he is a Gurmukh or not.

Please listen to this Singh saab (who was his comarade) on some of his personal activities, including undergoing sterilization procedure.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

@Soulfinder

[paapiman]

On 6/18/2018 at 11:44 AM, paapiman said:

@angy15 - Please listen to the clip below. Dhadri had promised a Sikh couple to assist them financially in front of the entire sangat. See what happened next. Is he a Gurmukh? Decide for yourself.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

@Soulfinder

[paapiman]

8 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I dont watch this guy but as this clip was only 30 seconds long I thought I could tolerate that. Ghagri again shows his shallow intellect by not recognising the sublte differences in Gurbani arths:

ਆਸਾ ॥

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਜੇ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਨ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥

ਲੋਕ ਪਤੀਣੇ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਯਾਨਾ ॥੧॥

ਪੂਜਹੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥

ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਜਲ ਕੈ ਮਜਨਿ ਜੇ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਨਾਵਹਿ ॥

ਜੈਸੇ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਤੈਸੇ ਓਇ ਨਰ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਆਵਹਿ ॥੨॥

ਮਨਹੁ ਕਠੋਰੁ ਮਰੈ ਬਾਨਾਰਸਿ ਨਰਕੁ ਨ ਬਾਂਚਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਾੜੰਬੈ ਤ ਸਗਲੀ ਸੈਨ ਤਰਾਈ ॥੩॥

ਦਿਨਸੁ ਨ ਰੈਨਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਨਹੀ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਤਹਾ ਬਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਾ ॥

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਰ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਬਾਵਰਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੪॥੩੭॥

 

Dive in at the deep end of ignorance!

Here again bro, Dhadri is not wrong, if the verse is analysed, independent of the context.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[chatanga1]

38 minutes ago, paapiman said:

The interpretation that a greedy person takes on the features of a snake is correct too

ਮਨ ਮੂਰਖ ਕਾਹੇ ਬਿਲਲਾਈਐ ॥

ਪੁਰਬ ਲਿਖੇ ਕਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਪਾਈਐ ॥

ਦੂਖ ਸੂਖ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰੁ ॥

ਅਵਰ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਤੂ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਚਿਤਾਰੁ ॥

ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਕਰੈ ਸੋਈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਨੁ ॥

ਭੂਲਾ ਕਾਹੇ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਅਜਾਨ ॥

ਕਉਨ ਬਸਤੁ ਆਈ ਤੇਰੈ ਸੰਗ ॥

ਲਪਟਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਸਿ ਲੋਭੀ ਪਤੰਗ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਿ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਮਾਹਿ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਤਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥੪॥

 

In Gurbani greed is symbolised through our perception of animals. As snakes are venomous, it is so portrayed that a greedy man is venomous. But in the above shabad greed is used in connection with a moth. However moths aren't greedy.

 

Dogs are usually associated with greed in Gurbani:

ਅਤਿ ਸੂਚੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ॥

ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਾਲ ॥

ਗਲੀ ਗਰਬਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੋਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨ ॥

ਸਭਿ ਬਿਧਿ ਖੋਈ ਲੋਭਿ ਸੁਆਨ ॥੨॥

 

but dogs are also praised for their loyalty in Gurbani:

ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੋ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਜਿਉ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਆਨ ਤਜਤ ਨਹੀ ਨਿਤ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਉ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹੁਇ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ॥੪੫॥

 

So, in order to portray greed in humans we have 3 animals that are used. Don't get stuck on the animal itself bro.

 

 

 

[chatanga1]

39 minutes ago, paapiman said:

For example, you asked about how a man can take on the features of rock, mountain, etc. Look at one of the interpretations of the verse below, which describes how an advanced spiritual aspirant takes on the qualities, represented by earth, bull and the sky.

Yes, I asked that question but not a human aspect. You are missing the point here wildly. Cult-leader ghaghri and his cult follower here are trying to say that when a person becomes greedy he turns into a dog and then takes a rebirth again as a human. To these cultists this is reincarnation.

My question to them was based on the truth in Gurbani that the atma in a person was once an atma in a rock/mountain/tree. By their twisting of Gurbani they cannot explain how a person lives as a rock/tree/mountain in their mind.

 

Neither can they explain how they live as an abortion in their mind. How is an abortion carried out in the mind?

 

The line that you have presented in nothing to do with being a rock or mountain as a living entity to die in your mind. It is to do with character.

ਧਧੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਧਰੇ ਧਰਮਾ ਪੁਰਿ ਗੁਣਕਾਰੀ ਮਨੁ ਧੀਰਾ ॥

ਧਧੈ ਧੂਲਿ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਕੰਚਨ ਭਏ ਮਨੂਰਾ ॥

ਧਨੁ ਧਰਣੀਧਰੁ ਆਪਿ ਅਜੋਨੀ ਤੋਲਿ ਬੋਲਿ ਸਚੁ ਪੂਰਾ ॥

ਕਰਤੇ ਕੀ ਮਿਤਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੈ ਜਾਣੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੂਰਾ ॥੩॥

 

Having Dheeraj in your mind is NOTHING to do with a joon of being a mountain.

[chatanga1]

33 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Here again bro, Dhadri is not wrong, if the verse is analysed, independent of the context.

 

I worry about you bro sometimes.

Dhadhri is saying that ਗਤਿ meaning mukti is not mukti here but ਗਤੀ which means speed. Then he translates this into saying that if by bathing in water made someone brain really fast then frogs would have really fast brains.

 

Gurbani is not talking about brains/intelligence  in ANY respect here whatsoever:

ਜਲ ਕੈ ਮਜਨਿ ਜੇ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਨਾਵਹਿ ॥

ਜੈਸੇ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਤੈਸੇ ਓਇ ਨਰ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਆਵਹਿ ॥੨॥

 

Gurbani here is saying that if by ਮਜਨਿ one could get mukti then frogs would get mukti and they bathe daily. But just as the frogs these people are born over and over again.

 

Its saying simply that bathing by itself does not bring one mukti.

[paapiman]

27 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Its saying simply that bathing by itself does not bring one mukti.

That's the primary message of those verses, based on the context. There might be many more meanings of those verses.

 

28 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Gurbani is not talking about brains/intelligence  in ANY respect here whatsoever:

Not sure about that. Gurbani is very deep and versatile. The shabad could be talking about intelligence too. After all, the word ਗਤਿ also means speed.

 

39 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Dhadhri is saying that ਗਤਿ meaning mukti is not mukti here but ਗਤੀ which means speed. Then he translates this into saying that if by bathing in water made someone brain really fast then frogs would have really fast brains.

If Dhadri says that ਗਤਿ does not mean salvation, then he is definitely mistaken.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Cult-leader ghaghri and his cult follower here are trying to say that when a person becomes greedy he turns into a dog and then takes a rebirth again as a human. To these cultists this is reincarnation

So, he is basically saying that a greedy person does not become a dog physically (in his next life form), but behaves like a dog and then comes back again as a human in his next birth?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Gurbani is not talking about brains/intelligence  in ANY respect here whatsoever:

ਗਤਿ also means Gyan, which can refer to worldly or spiritual gyan. Therefore, we cannot state that the verse below, is not related to intelligence at all.

 

4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

ਜਲ ਕੈ ਮਜਨਿ ਜੇ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਨਾਵਹਿ ॥

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Reader]

16 hours ago, angy15 said:

@Reader

Please if you can reply this too.

I'll reply to you once you answer the same question iv asked multiple times now. Why do you hide from it? I asked you if Gurbani said the world was flat, but Science said it was round, who would you side with?

 

Answer it and I'll answer yours, since I asked first you should respond first. Common sense really. 

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

Here  Guru Arjan here is describing evolution of man  just like Darwin's Theory of Evolution although sequence of evolution is not same.

No he's not. Rocks are just minerals, they don't "evolve" the same way as life, heck they technically don't evolve at all. Now I know what you'll say "hur dur muh microbial in the rock hur dur" but I'll give you a little news flash, read the verse. There's no mention of them, Gurbani has defined them and named them actually, but in this verse it's not mentioned. So tell me dear wife of Dhandriwala, do rocks have souls? are minerals alive now?

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

You  all don't have that khalsa spirit 

Funny cuz that's exactly what everyone said when Dhandriwala wet himself and ran away to hide like a dog. Funny how you scream no one else has it but you and your missionary friends seem to run from any actual confrontation. Tell me how many Shaheed missionaries there are. Most of you morons slap on Professor or Doctor without actually knowing true academia when it slaps you in the face.  

[angy15]

2 hours ago, Reader said:

I'll reply to you once you answer the same question iv asked multiple times now. Why do you hide from it? I asked you if Gurbani said the world was flat, but Science said it was round, who would you side wit

Mr reader I have already answered it go look for it.

Their is no link of above question with ek sikh Rehat Mariyada u r just ignoring my question

I don't want to discuss with fake Sikhs who are not in favour of Ek Sikh Rehat Mariyada. U celebrate ur version of Sikhi.

[angy15]

4 hours ago, Reader said:

No he's not. Rocks are just minerals, they don't "evolve" the same way as life, heck they technically don't evolve at all. Now I know what you'll say "hur dur muh microbial in the rock hur dur" but I'll give you a little news flash, read the verse. There's no mention of them, Gurbani has defined them and named them actually, but in this verse it's not mentioned. So tell me dear wife of Dhandriwala, do rocks have souls? are minerals alive now?

Mr Pujari ji you please explain  your version of understanding of this shabad and thus this line and then we discuss

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥

In so many incarnations, you were rock and mountains.

[angy15]

8 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

. Cult-leader ghaghri and his cult follower here are trying to say that when a person becomes greedy he turns into a dog and then takes a rebirth again as a human. To these cultists this is reincarnation.

 Absolutely lie you are making it up yourself .

[angy15]

4 hours ago, Reader said:

No he's not. Rocks are just minerals, they don't "evolve" the same way as life, heck they technically don't evolve at all. Now I know what you'll say "hur dur muh microbial in the rock hur dur" but I'll give you a little news flash, read the verse. There's no mention of them, Gurbani has defined them and named them actually, but in this verse it's not mentioned. So tell me dear wife of Dhandriwala, do rocks have souls? are minerals alive now?

I think you don' t understand evolution.

Although Rocks are composed of minerals and are inanimate  but the same minerals were building block  of primitive life  which ultimately give rise to life(animates) it is scientifically proven too. and it doen't happen randomly ,it takes millions of year .

Excerpt from Writers book.

Günter Wächtershäuser expert in chemistry proposed that the first organisms were drastically different from anything we know. They were not made of cells. They did not have enzymes, DNA or RNA.instead, Wächtershäuser imagined a flow of hot water streaming out of a volcano. The water was rich in volcanic gases like ammonia, and held traces of minerals from the volcano's heart.

Where the water flowed over the rocks, chemical reactions began to take place. In particular, metals from the water helped simple organic compounds to fuse into larger ones.The turning point was the creation of the first metabolic cycle. This is a process in which one chemical is converted into a series of other chemicals, until eventually the original chemical is recreated. In the process, the entire system takes in energy, which can be used to restart the cycle – and to start doing other things. All the other things that make up modern organisms – like DNA, cells and brains – came later, built on the back of these chemical cycles.

 

Another interesting article  as how Rocks and life are deeply intertwined.

http://cosmos.nautil.us/short/79/the-primordial-fertility-of-rock

How amazing our Guruji were far ahead of his time.He was truley a Natural  Philosopher and scientist too .