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Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs


paapiman

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46 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Open Challenge to Dhadri by a Singh saab:

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Veer ji this is Bhai Jaswinder Singh who family relations with Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Bhindrawale and Shaheed General Subheg Singh Ji. He has done a lot of videos on gurmat and has a lot of knowledge.

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7 hours ago, angy15 said:

You can love him or hate him.But he attracts big gathering.His Deewans attracts more sangats than Damdami Taksal or any other dera .I have attended one of his divans and  i did not find his speeches anti gurmat though durning his speech he occasionally blames SGPC and Damdami Taksal for some past  incidents otherwise there was no anti gurmat prachaar. If it all he is Guru Nindak  or spoken against Gurmat let it come in front of Akal Takht  and let it take a decision. 

Ang Sang Waheguru 

I am not familiar with his speeches but these videos are purposely created to distort.

Creator of the video, just takes one line out of context.

In the first video he says, "Naam abhyas is not everything."

Ok, so where is the rest of that speech? What other things does he add to Naam abhyas?

No mention of that. No context.

As Sikhs, we should already know from the 3 Pillars of Sikhism that Naam abhyas is not everything, and that there is Sharing Wealth and Wisdom, and Truthful actions that go with Naam Abhyas.

Did Dhadhrianwale say you shouldn't do Naam Abhyas? because that would be something.

If so, where did he say that?

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5 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

I am not familiar with his speeches but these videos are purposely created to distort.

Creator of the video, just takes one line out of context.

In the first video he says, "Naam abhyas is not everything."

Ok, so where is the rest of that speech? What other things does he add to Naam abhyas?

No mention of that. No context.

As Sikhs, we should already know from the 3 Pillars of Sikhism that Naam abhyas is not everything, and that there is Sharing Wealth and Wisdom, and Truthful actions that go with Naam Abhyas.

Did Dhadhrianwale say you shouldn't do Naam Abhyas? because that would be something.

If so, where did he say that?

Veer of all what i have heard of his bachans he  seems to be influenced by the so called 'rational'  Anti Dasam brigade . He started this in fact, he  started criticizing Taksaal..in one of the videos i heard him saying eh kam Taksaal da hai sannu karna painda..this got the Taksaalis agitated . Last but not the least, he questioned bathing in the sarovar at Amritsar Sahib and it was in a rude way is what i feel. He said something to belittle the ritual

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9 hours ago, paapiman said:

If you go through all the videos in this thread, you should be able to figure out why Gurmukhs would dislike such a personality.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 if at all his videos are anti Gurmat let Akal Takht take action against him.He himself is saying in this video listen from 1:00.Let both side come face to face and discuss  and let sangat descide.

 

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31 minutes ago, jaikaara said:

Veer of all what i have heard of his bachans he  seems to be influenced by the so called 'rational'  Anti Dasam brigade . He started this in fact, he  started criticizing Taksaal..in one of the videos i heard him saying eh kam Taksaal da hai sannu karna painda..this got the Taksaalis agitated . Last but not the least, he questioned bathing in the sarovar at Amritsar Sahib and it was in a rude way is what i feel. He said something to belittle the ritual

Can you provide the source of this information?

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9 hours ago, paapiman said:

The above cannot be solely used to prove that he is an accurate preacher.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

But it can also be the other way he may be  preaching gurmat in right sense which is attracting sangat.We can't question sangats intellect.

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On 6/1/2018 at 12:48 AM, angy15 said:

 if at all his videos are anti Gurmat let Akal Takht take action against him.He himself is saying in this video listen from 1:00.Let both side come face to face and discuss  and let sangat descide.

Why doesn't he accept the challenge of Bhai Jaswinder Singh jee USA? He has challenged him for a veechar multiple times. He is willing to do the debate/veechar online too, which should be very convenient for Dhadri.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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   Its a Panthic Issue , veechar/debate  should be  infront of akal takht  between taksal and dandiyrianwala and let sangat decide . 

Even the Title of the Discussion is misleading "Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs"  

It should be "Dhadrianwala Vs Taksaal"

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9 hours ago, paapiman said:

Another rebuttal to Dhadri.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

These clips cherry picked purposefully made to defame him. In what context  Dhadrianwale said we should first listen the full tape and in  which year he said this .

 

Waheguru can be obtained  by  his Grace .

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਪਣੀ ਜਪੀਐ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ॥: 

When the Divine Grace is manifest, one meditates on Amrit Naam .

 

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The whole controversy is the  interpretations of Gurbani .There are two schools of thought regarding interpretations of Gurbani 

1. One is Traditionalistic interpetations which Sampardais follows and  are sometimes Brahminical concept of sprituality

2. Other is Interpretation   of Prof Sahib Singh ,Bhai Vir Singh  etc which is  based on reason and faith in the truth  .

The Sangat are free to follow whichever interpetations they like.No one can force anyone

Nobody has the copyright on Guru Granth Sahib.No body has the right to threaten anyone.

 

Ang Sang Waheguru

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On 5/31/2018 at 4:49 PM, angy15 said:

You can love him or hate him

Why do you feel we only can do either of these options? Can't we be in a position where we neither love or hate him?

 

On 5/31/2018 at 4:49 PM, angy15 said:

But he attracts big gathering.His Deewans attracts more sangats than Damdami Taksal or any other dera

Numbers means nothing. Millions of people still go to the Ganges and offer water to the sun. Millions still offers their prayer to the Kaaba. Yet Guru Nanak showed them both how futile this was. Only Sikhs don't do this but we are a few while they are many.

Does that mean that Guru Nanak was wrong? Or that Guru Sahib shouldn't have said anything ?

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On 6/1/2018 at 6:21 AM, angy15 said:

But it can also be the other way he may be  preaching gurmat in right sense which is attracting sangat.We can't question sangats intellect.

Sangat's intellect? That can change from sangat to sangat can't it? What if the sangat aren't too clued up on Gurbani or Gurmat themselves? They will just believe anything that is said.

 

16 hours ago, paapiman said:

Why doesn't he accept the challenge of Bhai Jaswinder Singh jee USA? He has challenged him for a veechar multiple times. He is willing to do the debate/veechar online too, which should be very convenient for Dhadri.

Dhadriwala is too scared to debate anyone. His forte was in telling religious/historical sakhis which he where he built his fanbase. He has no idea of the spiritual aspect of Gurmat (which is ironic seeing as he was first in Nanaksar, which is a rock of spirituality.) In some of his videos he has said repeatedly "let us say what we want, we should have the freedom to say what we want."

 

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6 hours ago, angy15 said:

The whole controversy is the  interpretations of Gurbani .There are two schools of thought regarding interpretations of Gurbani 

1. One is Traditionalistic interpetations which Sampardais follows and  are sometimes Brahminical concept of sprituality

Where and when did this tradition start and who started it?

What is "Brahminical concept of sprituality" please in your own words, with any examples.

 

6 hours ago, angy15 said:

2. Other is Interpretation   of Prof Sahib Singh ,Bhai Vir Singh  etc which is  based on reason and faith in the truth  .

"reason" has no place in religion as no-one can actually prove their is a God who we must worship. But if you think that reason is a must, please share when and where you met God, and give us any evidence you have to prove God exists.

"faith in the truth". Ok, so what is faith in the truth? What is the truth? Is it true that the sun rises every day? So what should I be holding to as the truth?

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3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Why do you feel we only can do either of these options? Can't we be in a position where we neither love or hate him?

Thanks Veerji for third option.Definately you can have neutral opnion. Before  giving my opinion let me tell I am taking a neutral stance on this unlike like you .Final Decision is to be taken by Akal Takt

 

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Numbers means nothing. Millions of people still go to the Ganges and offer water to the sun. Millions still offers their prayer to the Kaaba. Yet Guru Nanak showed them both how futile this was. Only Sikhs don't do this but we are a few while they are many.

Does that mean that Guru Nanak was wrong? Or that Guru Sahib shouldn't have said anything ?

No one is saying Guru Nanak is wrong. It is the faith & Belief  of millions of Hindu and Muslims just like we have Sikhs Tirrath Yatra to Hemkund Sahib ,Darbar Sahib and other religious places  

What Dhadrianwale says abt tirath  isaan is given in link below: Plz if you can find any anti Gurmat vichaar  in this:

 

 

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Sangat's intellect? That can change from sangat to sangat can't it? What if the sangat aren't too clued up on Gurbani or Gurmat themselves? They will just believe anything that is said.

Yes it can change  for or against . I totally  disagree that "they will believe anything that is said".Sangat  have become more logical and Science Oriented .Gurbani has to be presented in that way .Not by telling Stories  .

 

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Where and when did this tradition start and who started it?

What is "Brahminical concept of sprituality" please in your own words, with any examples.

This two interpetation is my opinion on why there is  disagreement between  the Two Side .Brahminical concept of spritualit y is the allegation which often Dandariwalla mentions in his Katha.

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Other is Interpretation   of Prof Sahib Singh ,Bhai Vir Singh  etc which is  based on reason and faith in the truth 

If you take Gurmat meaning of reason and Faith  it is Bibek Budh:

Let me try to expain it in light of Gurbani  Below is Shabad from Kabeer Ji .

What Kabeer Bhagat ji says that people are churning the water with an assumption that it’s milk. It’s very imperative to understand in the light of gurbani that what is milk and what is water? Milk is Gurbani and all the falsely gians of world, which don’t lead to ONE are water. Gurbani (milk), when churned by Budhi enables it’s transformation into Bibek Budhi; which then leads to state of bliss.That’s why Gurbani always guides us for Shabad Veechar and understanding the shabad.

 

 

ਐਸੋ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਕਬੀਰ ॥

Aiso Acharaj Dhaekhiou Kabeer ||

Kabeer has seen such wonders!

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੪ 
Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev


ਦਧਿ ਕੈ ਭੋਲੈ ਬਿਰੋਲੈ ਨੀਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Dhadhh Kai Bholai Birolai Neer ||1|| Rehaao ||

Mistaking it for cream, the people are churning water. ||1||Pause||

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੪ 
Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev


ਹਰੀ ਅੰਗੂਰੀ ਗਦਹਾ ਚਰੈ ॥

Haree Angooree Gadhehaa Charai ||

The donkey grazes upon the green grass;

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੪ 
Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev


ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਹਾਸੈ ਹੀਗੈ ਮਰੈ ॥੧॥

Nith Outh Haasai Heegai Marai ||1||

Arising each day, he laughs and brays, and then dies. ||1||

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੫ 
Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev


ਮਾਤਾ ਭੈਸਾ ਅੰਮੁਹਾ ਜਾਇ ॥

Maathaa Bhaisaa Anmuhaa Jaae ||

The bull is intoxicated, and runs around wildly.

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੫ 
Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev


ਕੁਦਿ ਕੁਦਿ ਚਰੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥

Kudh Kudh Charai Rasaathal Paae ||2||

He romps and eats and then falls into hell. ||2||

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੫ 
 


ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਭਈ ਖੇਡ ॥

Kahu Kabeer Paragatt Bhee Khaedd ||

Says Kabeer, a strange sport has become manifest:

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੩:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੬ 
 


ਲੇਲੇ ਕਉ ਚੂਘੈ ਨਿਤ ਭੇਡ ॥੩॥

Laelae Ko Chooghai Nith Bhaedd ||3||

The sheep is sucking the milk of her lamb. ||3||

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੩:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੬ 
 


ਰਾਮ ਰਮਤ ਮਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੀ ਆਈ ॥

Raam Ramath Math Paragattee Aaee ||

Chanting the Lord's Name, my intellect is enlightened.

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੪:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੬ 
 


ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਗੁਰਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੪॥

Kahu Kabeer Gur Sojhee Paaee ||4||1||14||

Says Kabeer, the Guru has blessed me with this understanding. ||4||1||14||

ਗਉੜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੪) ੪:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨੬ ਪੰ. ੭ 
 

Let me ask you .When Guru Nanak visited mecca ,the priest told  nanak to be carefull to not point his feet towards Kaaba while he selpt. Nanak reply was turn my feet where God was not. It is said the Kaaba turned wherever nanak feet turned? Do you believe that Mecca actually turned ?

 

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3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Why doesn't he accept the challenge of Bhai Jaswinder Singh jee USA? He has challenged him for a veechar multiple times. He is willing to do the debate/veechar online too, which should be very convenient for Dhadri.

That I cant answer. But Who is Bhai JAswinder Singh? Is he a mediator or does he represnt Akal Takht. Debating with him  will result nothing .It might create more controversy.

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@angy15 - We can keep arguing over this for a long period of time, but that would be a waste of time/energy. Let's focus on one small part here.

Have you listened to all the videos in this thread? If not, please just listen to the one below. Tell me how you feel about it.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

He has no idea of the spiritual aspect of Gurmat (which is ironic seeing as he was first in Nanaksar, which is a rock of spirituality.)

Dhadri is not associated with Nanaksar Samprada. He is (or was) associated with Rara Saab samprada.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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17 hours ago, angy15 said:

Even the Title of the Discussion is misleading "Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs"  

Gyani Sant Singh jee Maskin (mentioned in op) was not a Taksali.

Even, Gyani Gurjit Singh jee might not be Taksali. His video has been posted in this thread too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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