Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs

[angy15]

8 hours ago, Reader said:

So you don't believe Guru Ji can turn an illiterate person into a literate scholar

Certainly not with a magic stick as described in various sakhees .The actual sakhee is Chajju ram was  from lower castes who were forbidden to read and learn.But Guru Nanak’s open door policy to everyone helped these mythical lower caste groups to get knowledgeable by following Guru’s teachings.they were no longer deaf and mute in the society.Inserting Magic band and putting on his head this is Brahmanism stuff.

[angy15]

9 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Are the maryadas of the 2 main Sikh institutions: Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib the same? "

What are you upto . The Sikh Rehit Mayada has to be one irrespective of any instituions.

 

[angy15]

Well I guess this forum is not quite open to healthy debates and opinion   .It has an  ideology which is associated to certain sect (maybe taksal )  and intolerant to others  .

You want me to understand and view Gurbani through your perceptive and if not then you put allegations that i am a  missionary and even attack pracharaks who does not tow your line  that is shamefull and that is not Sikh Sidhant .

But no one has a copyright on Sri Guru Granth Sahib .Every individual has a freedom to approach Gurbani without  believing the  sidhants of any particular taksal or missionary.

Guru Granth Sahib has to understood within its framework and not associate it with stories,sakis etc.This is not our Guru intended to do.

 

Regards

[paapiman]

7 hours ago, angy15 said:

Well I guess this forum is not quite open to healthy debates and opinion   .It has an  ideology which is associated to certain sect (maybe taksal )  and intolerant to others  .

You are free to have your own opinion. No one can force you to believe us. IMHO, this forum seems to be very open to healthy debates and differences in opinions. In the past, heretics have also been allowed to express their opinions.

Similarly, Dhadri is also free to preach his understanding to the sangat. But, Daas is sure that you would agree that other preachers also have the right to challenge his ideas.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 6/12/2018 at 10:52 PM, angy15 said:

Inserting Magic band and putting on his head this is Brahmanism stuff.

Why would you call it Brahmanism? So anything which seems magical* in Sikh history is Brahmanism? How do you define Brahmanism?

* - You have to remember that yesterday's magic could be today's science.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Reader]

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

Certainly not with a magic stick as described in various sakhees .The actual sakhee is Chajju ram was  from lower castes who were forbidden to read and learn.But Guru Nanak’s open door policy to everyone helped these mythical lower caste groups to get knowledgeable by following Guru’s teachings.they were no longer deaf and mute in the society.Inserting Magic band and putting on his head this is Brahmanism stuff.

Then please present the source, preferably written before the 1900s which says this. Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and went to a far off world with the son of Pir Dastigir, he came back with Prashad from there and then gave it to Pir Dastigir. Would you say that Bhai Sahib Ji is lying there and full of "Brahmvaad" keeping in mind that Guru Arjun Dev Ji gave his approval to his vaars?

Quote

Well I guess this forum is not quite open to healthy debates and opinion   .It has an  ideology which is associated to certain sect (maybe taksal )  and intolerant to others  .

because we don't latch onto your view point? This might come as a shock to you but there's alot of people here with various different views, people debate and then keep going.

Quote

 You want me to understand and view Gurbani through your perceptive and if not then you put allegations that i am a  missionary and even attack pracharaks who does not tow your line  that is shamefull and that is not Sikh Sidhant .

Ironic because the person you seem to vouching for has no Gurmat gyan. He's never touched a single Puratan text, let alone anything remotely close to bani, he pulls things from his proverbial ass so to speak.

Quote

 But no one has a copyright on Sri Guru Granth Sahib .Every individual has a freedom to approach Gurbani without  believing the  sidhants of any particular taksal or missionary.

So when a Hindu follower decides that Har in Guru Granth Sahib Ji means Vishnu Devta, Ram means Ram Chandar and the entire scripture is praising the Devtas is fine? Again no one's discouraging anyone to approach Gurbani but you should do it with some sort of background from it, atleast sit down and read works from the times of Guru Ji, learn from them and don't dismiss them as "Brahmvaad". Don't sit there reading a translation and then deriving nonsense from it.

Quote

 Guru Granth Sahib has to understood within its framework and not associate it with stories,sakis etc.This is not our Guru intended to do.

That again is nothing more than nonsense. There's references to various stories about bhagats like Prahlaad, slaying of demons, events that occured in Guru Ji's own human time on earth (Priest Kalyug etc). You do need to know these to even have a small chance of understanding what's being said and in what context.

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

What are you upto . The Sikh Rehit Mayada has to be one irrespective of any instituions.

 

No it doesn't. There's various different ways of life, standardising it would be doing what muslims have done and that's worked so well for them right? Clearly no-one has raised any issue regarding their Sharia right?

You seem to hate Taksal but the fact that all traditional institutions (this includes Taksals, Udasis, Nihang Singhs) have all had a mutual love for one another and aren't trying to scrap away each other's traditions. That only seems to be a problem to missionaries who are more obsessed with re-writing or ignoring anything they don't like, its rather funny how Missionaries seem to think that for 300 years Sikhs have had no idea what true Sikhi is, but some self proclaimed "Doctor" suddenly had an epiphany while on the toilet and now true Sikhi has been revealed.

[angy15]

16 hours ago, Reader said:

Then please present the source, preferably written before the 1900s which says this. Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and went to a far off world with the son of Pir Dastigir, he came back with Prashad from there and then gave it to Pir Dastigir. Would you say that Bhai Sahib Ji is lying there and full of "Brahmvaad" keeping in mind that Guru Arjun Dev Ji gave his approval to his vaars?

Veer ji benchmark for approval is  Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Referring above  sakhsi ,How does these  miracles provide any benefits to humanity. If suppose these miracles are  to be true .then  Brahmans  offering ganga water  to their  ancestors live thousands and thousands of miles away." is also true and Mohammmad flying to the moon on a horse is also true.How is Guru teaching different from any other region .

[angy15]

17 hours ago, paapiman said:

 

* - You have to remember that yesterday' magic could be today's science.

.

Veerji if that is the case i am afraid the day it  becomes  science we would not required  Sri Guru Granth Sahib instead we would need just that magic stick .Guru Nanak would'nt  need to take on his journey to travel  around the world he might have have sat somewhere and could have given his teaching with miracles  .

If miracles happen then science cannot happen. And as science has grown, miracles have diminished in exact proportion. The more science grows, the less and less are there miracles. If you go farther back you can find thousands of miracles happening.

These miracles stories are created put someone  above all humanity.  To make him superhuman. (Vedantic,Bhramins scholars are expert in these  theories)

Only Miricale as per Gurbani is 

 Satgur sabad ujaaro deepaa,
binsio andhkaar tih mandar ratan kothree khulhee anoopaa. SGGS, M5, Pg 821.
Through the lamp of the Guru’s word, where the light of wisdom is lit, the beautiful chamber of virtues likened to jewels is opened and the darkness of ignorance is dispelled from that body.

 

Ang Sang Waheguru 

 

 

[angy15]

16 hours ago, Reader said:

You seem to hate Taksal but the fact that all traditional institutions (this includes Taksals, Udasis, Nihang Singhs) have all had a mutual love for one another and aren't trying to scrap away each other's traditions. That only seems to be a problem to missionaries who are more obsessed with re-writing or ignoring anything they don't like, its rather funny how Missionaries seem to think that for 300 years Sikhs have had no idea what true Sikhi is, but some self proclaimed "Doctor" suddenly had an epiphany while on the toilet and now true Sikhi has been revealed.

You are sharing  my opinion which  i am again again presenting in this thread. 

Its a clash between two  ideologies.

 

[paapiman]

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

If miracles happen then science cannot happen. And as science has grown, miracles have diminished in exact proportion. The more science grows, the less and less are there miracles. If you go farther back you can find thousands of miracles happening.

Let me try to put it in a better way. What seems to be a miracle to you, might be proven by science hundreds of years later. For example, if you were to take a smart phone and time travel to the 1600's, it is possible that many people (if not all) will think that you have a magical device with you. But, we now know that here is nothing magical about a smartphone.

Similarly, some Sakhis that seem magical to some people (in current times), might be explained by science in the future.

Gurbani is miles and miles ahead of science. We are Sikhs of Gurbani and we must have blind faith in it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Reader]

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

Veer ji benchmark for approval is  Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Then according to you Amrit sanchar must be made up since its clearly not explicitly stated in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 

Quote

How does these  miracles provide any benefits to humanity

They broke the arrogance of Pandit Ji and as a result he realised he barely knows anything about his own text. I asked you to provide a historical source of your version of the Sakhi, preferably dated back before the time of Singh Sabha. Even in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji certain miracles are mentioned, Waheguru brought a cow back to life for Bhagat Naamdev Ji, the entire story is recorded in there.

Quote

If miracles happen then science cannot happen. And as science has grown, miracles have diminished in exact proportion. The more science grows, the less and less are there miracles. If you go farther back you can find thousands of miracles happening.

No offence but Science isn't your Guru. If Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared and said to you the world is flat, and we have no other planets in our solar system. Would you believe him? or would you believe science? Miracles haven't decreased, they're just less frequent as Kalyug goes on as no one has any spiritual ability at all, if any. Very few folk do. Science is great for explaining physical stuff, but Science also says God isn't real and out to prove it. 

Quote

 Brahmans  offering ganga water  to their  ancestors live thousands and thousands of miles away." is also true and Mohammmad flying to the moon on a horse is also true.How is Guru teaching different from any other region .

Brahmins offering water wasn't a miracle, that was a ritual. Now you're trying to muddle the two, firstly let's go back to my original question, the one you conveniently ignored. 

Quote

 Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and went to a far off world with the son of Pir Dastigir, he came back with Prashad from there and then gave it to Pir Dastigir.

^ would you agree this happened as Bhai Sahib noted it down, or are you going to accuse him as well of exaggerating or outright lying? 

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

You are sharing  my opinion which  i am again again presenting in this thread. 

Its a clash between two  ideologies.

 

Except one Ideology has no actual leg to stand on. Before you start accusing me of being a Taksali, I'm not. I've learnt from a whole host of sikhs with different beliefs and systems. Ideologies would be people like Udasis, Nirmalas, Nihangs etc. Missionaries aren't any of these because its all been conceived in the last 20 or so years. They have no actual lineage in sikh history and outright hate doubt anything that makes them uneasy. I have no problem with people like Udasis, Nihangs etc, I don't agree with them fully fyi but I do respect them because unlike missionaries they've studied contemporary sikh sources and actually formulated knowledge from them even if its not what I believe. 

[chatanga1]

On 6/13/2018 at 3:55 AM, angy15 said:

What are you upto . The Sikh Rehit Mayada has to be one irrespective of any instituions.

What am I upto you ask? I am replying to your questions and giving my own opinions as you give yours.

Now YOU were the one who said that Taksal, Sachkhand Hazur Sahib etc have their own maryadas. I asked you about the maryadas of Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

Now you are asking me what I'm up to???

If the Sikh Rehit Maryada has to be one irrespective of any institutions, according to you, why not start with Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib? Get those two maryadas as one and the rest will follow.

 

On 6/13/2018 at 4:10 AM, angy15 said:

Well I guess this forum is not quite open to healthy debates and opinion   .

Healthy debates? You have many times used the term "brahmanism" in this topic. I have asked you 2 times already, but you have not asnwered, and here is the 3rd:

What is Brahmanism ? What are the parameters of this term?

Please oblige to keep this forum "open to healthy debates."

 

On 6/13/2018 at 3:52 AM, angy15 said:

Certainly not with a magic stick as described in various sakhees .The actual sakhee is Chajju ram was  from lower castes who were forbidden to read and learn.But Guru Nanak’s open door policy to everyone helped these mythical lower caste groups to get knowledgeable by following Guru’s teachings.they were no longer deaf and mute in the society.Inserting Magic band and putting on his head this is Brahmanism stuff.

I would love to discuss this sakhi with you, as soon I understand the term "brahmanism" a lot clearer.

 

11 hours ago, angy15 said:

Veer ji benchmark for approval is  Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

This is a bit confusing. PLease elaborate on what you mean by this and lets keep the topic healthy.

[samurai2]

On 5/31/2018 at 4:49 PM, angy15 said:

You can love him or hate him.But he attracts big gathering.His Deewans attracts more sangats than Damdami Taksal or any other dera

Sikhs/Singhs have always been outnumbered. The fact you are basing your judgment on quantity rather than quality in itself goes to show who your Guru is. Ek se sava lakh comes to mind. 

 

On 5/31/2018 at 4:49 PM, angy15 said:

If it all he is Guru Nindak  or spoken against Gurmat let it come in front of Akal Takht  and let it take a decision.

He's a fat prick, simple as. The fact you are inclined with his thoughts shows you are also a lund. 

Also that "fearless" phudu needs govt protection? when does a real Singh Yodha need protection? He's got his cheleh to protect him, hasn't he?

These missionary lunds are really growing in numbers, all good as it proves kalyug growing as well.. 

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

 when does a real Singh Yodha need protection? He's got his cheleh to protect him, hasn't he?

Some Singhs were given trespassing notice by the Gurudwara (here in Ontario), which hosted Dhadri. 

Please start listening at 15:40 min for that incident.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

when does a real Singh Yodha need protection? He's got his cheleh to protect him, hasn't he?

Remember when some people tried to assassinate him. He just ran away (even though his friend was killed in front of him). He had a gun in his car according to Bhai Ajnala. If that's true, why would a Singh run away that like? I can understand a strategic retreat, while fighting back. He didn't even try to fire back at the assailants.

He later said that he wanted to avoid "Bhra Maru Jang". But, how did he know at that point that those assailants were Singhs? They could have been government agents or goons dressed up like Singhs (he had to think like a warrior in that situation). Police cats during Kharkhu lehar used to dress up like Singhs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

Remember when some people tried to assassinate him. He just ran away (even though his friend was killed in front of him). He had a gun in his car according to Bhai Ajnala. If that's true, why would a Singh run away that like? I can understand a strategic retreat, while fighting back. He didn't even try to fire back at the assailants.

He later said that he wanted to avoid "Bhra Maru Jang". But, how did he know at that point that those assailants were Singhs? They could have been government agents or goons dressed up like Singhs (he had to think like a warrior in that situation). Police cats during Kharkhu lehar used to dress up like Singhs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Would you have shot back yourself?

[paapiman]

11 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Would you have shot back yourself?

Obviously, I would. It's a no-brainer

You won't? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

16 hours ago, paapiman said:

Obviously, I would. It's a no-brainer

You won't? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I would, but when you say it's a no-brainer it's like you haven't grasped how normalised giddarhness is amongst our lot nowadays. Are you in touch with reality?  

[paapiman]

14 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

I would, but when you say it's a no-brainer it's like you haven't grasped how normalisee giddarhness is amongst our lot nowadays. Are you in touch with reality?  

It should be a no-brainer for an Amritdhari Sikh. That's the whole point of wearing a Kirpan and a Kara (to an extent) - Self-defense and protection of others. I will shoot to protect others (especially apne, women, children, elderly) too. If I don't, I am just a disgrace on the Sikh Panth.

What about "Putt Jattan de". Don't you think they will shoot back? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

[samurai2]

forget amritdhari....ill stick a knife in a mans throat..mate, im really going to loose it...you tattus, fix up..

[samurai2]

become men...true warriors..not talk...

[samurai2]

12 hours ago, samurai2 said:

forget amritdhari....ill stick a knife in a mans throat..mate, im really going to loose it...you tattus, fix up..

I should not have said this. 

But you sikh mans/singhs.. become mentally, spiritually, physically strong and independent.  and when we become a unit, it will be a force to be reckoned with

i cannot believe a man would rate dhandriwala and look up to him...

[dalsingh101]

14 hours ago, samurai2 said:

forget amritdhari....ill stick a knife in a mans throat..mate, im really going to loose it...you tattus, fix up..

 

You've completely lost the plot. Baiting yourself up blatantly like that. Haven't you grasped that pigs (and other government agencies) monitor forums like this. You've become a liability. 

[dalsingh101]

16 hours ago, paapiman said:

It should be a no-brainer for an Amritdhari Sikh. That's the whole point of wearing a Kirpan and a Kara (to an extent) - Self-defense and protection of others. I will shoot to protect others (especially apne, women, children, elderly) too. If I don't, I am just a disgrace on the Sikh Panth.

What about "Putt Jattan de". Don't you think they will shoot back? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

Have you seen the useless 'symbolic' butter knife most people carry as kirpans? They aren't ANY use for actually wounding assailants. Most amritdharis are actually too scared to carry genuine weapons by the looks of it (a minute percentage aren't)?  And where the hell are all of the UK ones with all the grooming going on in the UK?  

As for pjd, they aren't any different to rest of the quom these days - yeah you've got some that can fight (like most other jaats do), but plenty are cowards when they have to face serious challenges (like proper pussy school yard bully mentality) - I work with them all the time on sites. Have you swallowed all that that self-congratulatory bullsh1t from the 'Panjabi music industry' or something.

This is getting boring now.  

[samurai2]

49 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

 

You've completely lost the plot. Baiting yourself up blatantly like that. Haven't you grasped that pigs (and other government agencies) monitor forums like this. You've become a liability. 

Thanks for this..

i really cannot be bothered