Dhadrianwala Vs Great Sikhs

[chatanga1]

On 6/20/2018 at 8:15 AM, angy15 said:

Any ways this discussion  can keep on going without any winner  .Message to both the group : This crisis's can only be resolved  if this philosophy of Nanak is followed:

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥
Jab Lag Dhuneeaa Reheeai Naanak Kishh Suneeai Kishh Keheeai ||

As long as one lives in this world  one must listen  to others and express oneself to the others (to find the truth).

What is up with this poster? He seems to just throw random stuff into a discussion and then run away so that he won't have to give any answers.

Look at the Gurbani he has quoted above with HIS own interpretations of it.

This is what STTM say that line means:

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

Dhanaasaree, First Mehla:

ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

We are human beings of the briefest moment; we do not know the appointed time of our departure.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਿਨਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਸਰੇਵਹੁ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣਾ ॥੧॥

Prays Nanak, serve the One, to whom our soul and breath of life belong. ||1||

ਅੰਧੇ ਜੀਵਨਾ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇ ਦਿਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

You are blind - see and consider, how many days your life shall last. ||1||Pause||

ਸਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਸਭੁ ਜੀਉ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਤੂ ਮੈ ਖਰਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥

My breath, my flesh and my soul are all Yours, Lord; You are so very dear to me.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਾਇਰੁ ਏਵ ਕਹਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਚੇ ਪਰਵਦਗਾਰਾ ॥੨॥

Nanak, the poet, says this, O True Lord Cherisher. ||2||

ਜੇ ਤੂ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਦੇਹੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਹਿਬਾ ਕਿਆ ਕੋ ਕਢੈ ਗਹਣਾ ॥

If you gave nothing, O my Lord and Master, what could anyone pledge to You?

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਿਨਵੈ ਸੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੁਰਬਿ ਲਿਖੇ ਕਾ ਲਹਣਾ ॥੩॥

Nanak prays, we receive that which we are pre-destined to receive. ||3||

ਨਾਮੁ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਆ ਕਪਟੀ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥

The deceitful person does not remember the Lord's Name; he practices only deceit.

ਜਮ ਦੁਆਰਿ ਜਾ ਪਕੜਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ਤਾ ਚਲਦਾ ਪਛੁਤਾਣਾ ॥੪॥

When he is marched in chains to Death's door, then, he regrets his actions. ||4||

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥

As long as we are in this world, O Nanak, we should listen, and speak of the Lord.

ਭਾਲਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਮ ਰਹਣੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੫॥੨॥

I have searched, but I have found no way to remain here; so, remain dead while yet alive. ||5||2||

 

This is what Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale says about it:

From 16:30 onwards :

 

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_08_Ang_0660-0761/001--Sant.Gurbachan.Singh.(Bhindran.wale)--Raag.Dhanaasri--Ang-660.mp3

The line that @angy15 has been very eager to misquote is at 25:30 minutes.

[angy15]

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥

As long as we are in this world, O Nanak, we should listen, and speak of the Lord.

Well there is not much of a difference in the interpretation "others' can be  expressed as Lord ,

The whole shabad has the same  message as what i have expressed The rahao part   "Oh you blind (Dandariwala  and Taksali) this world is of very  short time.

Both of you listen and express each other  and sing prasies of lord devoid of all vicious and sinful actions .

 

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Well there is not much of a difference in the interpretation "others' can be  expressed as Lord ,

 

There is a whole world of difference. Gurbani is telling us to speak and listen of the Lord. You claim that it's saying "As long as one lives in this world  one must listen  to others and express oneself to the others (to find the truth)."

 

Where has the word "NANAK" gone from your translation? How pathetic is that? You twist the meanings for your own benefit and remove the Guru's name.

 

Listening to, or speaking of the Lord is advised from a Gurbani viewpoint. You want us to listen and discuss with people like yourself who have no idea how to discuss any subject healthily. I asked you 5 times at least "what is brahmanism" and yet you haven't had the manners to answer. You are going again your own (ill)advice that you are trying to foist on the forum. 

 

 

[angy15]

12 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

 

There is a whole world of difference. Gurbani is telling us to speak and listen of the Lord. You claim that it's saying "As long as one lives in this world  one must listen  to others and express oneself to the others (to find the truth)."

 

Where has the word "NANAK" gone from your translation? How pathetic is that? You twist the meanings for your own benefit and remove the Guru's name.

 

Listening to, or speaking of the Lord is advised from a Gurbani viewpoint. You want us to listen and discuss with people like yourself who have no idea how to discuss any subject healthily. I asked you 5 times at least "what is brahmanism" and yet you haven't had the manners to answer. You are going again your own (ill)advice that you are trying to foist on the forum. 

 

 

Dont get agitated .I take your point . I have already posted some of the practices in sikhism  which are Brahmanism which were are common in Hindhuism which was rejected by our Gurus. Thats the   Brahmanism  I am referring to so stop asking me again and again and .

[chatanga1]

6 hours ago, angy15 said:

I have already posted some of the practices in sikhism  which are Brahmanism which were are common in Hindhuism which was rejected by our Gurus. Thats the   Brahmanism  I am referring to

 

No you have posted an opinion of some videos that share practices with other religions without specifically saying what "brahmanism" is.

Until you tell us exactly what "brahmanism" is you are not contributing to keeping this discussion healthy. So, rather than throw new things in the mix, just tell us all what "brahmanism" is.

[Soulfinder]

 

[angy15]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:57 PM, chatanga1 said:

No you have posted an opinion of some videos that share practices with other religions without specifically saying what "brahmanism" is.

Then According to you what exactly are they doing.These practices are more common in Hindu temple.

[chatanga1]

20 minutes ago, angy15 said:

Then According to you what exactly are they doing.These practices are more common in Hindu temple.

I’m not concerned with what they are doing. I’m concerned with what “brahmanism “ is. You keep talking about it without telling us what it means and therefore are not helping to foster a healthy debate. What’s wrong with you?

[angy15]

15 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I’m not concerned with what they are doing. I’m concerned with what “brahmanism “ is. You keep talking about it without telling us what it means and therefore are not helping to foster a healthy debate. What’s wrong with you?

So you are more concerned with what Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala  is doing ,but does not want to comment on the useless practices going on in our Gurudwaras  beacuse he does not fit with the principles of Sant Samaj.

[chatanga1]

At this moment I am concerned in knowing what “brahmanism “ is so I can then have an opinion on those practices you are referring  to .

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer from you? 

[angy15]

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

At this moment I am concerned in knowing what “brahmanism “ is so I can then have an opinion on those practices you are referring  to .

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer from you? 

Do you find any similarity between these images .

The picture on the left was one  of the central rites of Brahmanism(done by bhramin hindu) during the ancient  time .One of the vedas text mentions it as

The Tipiñaka records one sacrifice conducted by a brahmin named Uggatasarãra during which `five hundred bulls, five hundred steers and numerous heifers, goats and rams were brought to the sacrificial post for slaughter' (A.IV,41). 

What appears on the right appears to be the same  practice/tradition  continuing.Now why not  call them keshdhari Brahmins

BTW on lighter note you profile pic also has a goat in it . I hope you  dont' belong to the  same school of thoughts as them.

[chatanga1]

At this moment I am more concerned in knowing what “brahmanism “ is so I can then have an opinion on those practices and pictures you are referring  to .

 Why is it so hard to get a straight answer from you?

 

If you can’t answer at the 8th time of asking...

[k9]

On 6/18/2018 at 8:36 AM, angy15 said:

Why its bothering you its not for you .Tell you fellow members to mind there languages if you need  a healthy debate .What the hell are you asking fourth time let me know.

Debate? Wake up man! When did you ever see a Sikh or group of sikhs ever to have a debate, when? This word simply does not exist in their vocabulary. They are kirpaan de yaar like sullehs!  The other point I would like to make over here is that there are no genuine sikhs anywhere, they are all fake, following Brahminism packed with rituals and superstitions! 

[chatanga1]

2 hours ago, k9 said:

Debate?

Yes, debate. Or discussion. Or as your friend said "healthy" debate. You are welcome to participate.

 

2 hours ago, k9 said:

Wake up man!

Unfortunately your pleas will fall on deaf ears. Angy has been asleep for a long time. It's ironic that the same person who asked for "healthy" debate is the same one who has done his best to stifle such debate.

 

2 hours ago, k9 said:

When did you ever see a Sikh or group of sikhs ever to have a debate, when?

Well, you are on a discussion forum. We discuss and debate things here on the forum. What exactly did you think you were signing up for when created your account?

 

2 hours ago, k9 said:

This word simply does not exist in their vocabulary.

"Healthy" debate does exist in the vocabulary of the same angy you are addressing your post to.

 

2 hours ago, k9 said:

The other point I would like to make over here is that there are no genuine sikhs anywhere, they are all fake, following Brahminism packed with rituals and superstitions! 

Great. Angy has done his best to avoid telling us what exactly brahminism is. Maybe you can help the poor fellow out?

[angy15]

 

8 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Great. Angy has done his best to avoid telling us what exactly brahminism is.

@chatanga1  Now its looking childish on your part . I think I've run out of ways to try and explain  .You are just avoiding to accept the reality . You can follow your practice of sikhi and  enjoy the MAHA PRASAAD(meat) in your Langar  .

[chatanga1]

Run out of ways? You mean you ran out of steam at the starting lineup? You haven’t explained once what brahmanism is. You keep using the word but avoid telling everyone what it is. 

What don’t you just answer the question?

[angy15]

7 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Run out of ways? You mean you ran out of steam at the starting lineup? You haven’t explained once what brahmanism is. You keep using the word but avoid telling everyone what it is. 

What don’t you just answer the question?

You please ask the missionaries what kind of  brahmanism you like to  hear abt.

[Reader]

8 minutes ago, angy15 said:

You please ask the missionaries what kind of  brahmanism you like to  hear abt.

no offence but @chatanga1 has been very patient towards you. You want to discuss Brahmanism that's fine, so the members of this forum will indulge you. In return we asked you to define what Brahmanism is, posting videos of Jhatka and other things isn't a definition. Put it into words, What is Brahmanism? That's all anyone has asked on this thread, yet you scuttle around the topic.

Again its apparent you either struggle to understand what is being asked or are purposely being dense about it so let's just be upfront. 

Define what is Brahmanism like a dictionary defines what the word "Planet" might mean. I'm sure you're capable of this since it seems to be your favourite word.

[angy15]

2 hours ago, Reader said:

no offence but @chatanga1 has been very patient towards you. You want to discuss Brahmanism that's fine, so the members of this forum will indulge you. In return we asked you to define what Brahmanism is, posting videos of Jhatka and other things isn't a definition. Put it into words, What is Brahmanism? That's all anyone has asked on this thread, yet you scuttle around the topic.

Again its apparent you either struggle to understand what is being asked or are purposely being dense about it so let's just be upfront. 

Define what is Brahmanism like a dictionary defines what the word "Planet" might mean. I'm sure you're capable of this since it seems to be your favourite word.

No he has nothing to say abt the practices of his fellow  sikhs so all he is struck with  one word . If these videos posted are not Brahmanism ritualistic practices  what are these .You please study ancient Vedas and you will find these practices  

Let the renowned scholars give you an answer what Brahmanism  influnece in sikhsim is

  Prof Puran Singh  defines it when he quoted the following
“It is to be regretted that Sikh and Hindu scholars are interpreting Guru Nanak in the futile terms of the colour he used, the brush he took; are analyzing the skin and flesh of his words and dissecting texts to find the Guru’s meaning to be the same as of the Vedas and Upanishad! This indicates enslavement to the power of Brahmanical tradition. Dead words are used to interpret the fire of the Master’s soul! The results are always grotesque and clumsy translations which have no meaning at all.”

 

Taran Singh, the then Head, Department of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Studies, Punjabi University, Patiala, admits that the Sikh and non-Sikh writers belonging to various Viakhia Parnalian (Schools of Interpretations) of 18th and 19th centuries had accepted that Gurus’ philosophy is based on Vedantic philosophy:

[angy15]

And Dr Dhillion a renowned schloar who has done his  Phd in Singh Sabha movement will tell you what Bhramanasim is in detail.Defination is at the end of the video

 

 

 

[chatanga1]

3 hours ago, angy15 said:

No he has nothing to say abt the practices of his fellow  sikhs so all he is struck with  one word .

Why are you lying? I seek to understand what the term "brahmanism" means. So far you have evaded the question. I mean, I asked 8 times. What kind of healthy discussion is that from you?

 

3 hours ago, angy15 said:

Let the renowned scholars give you an answer what Brahmanism  influnece in sikhsim is

That still isn't telling us what "brahmanism" is.

 

3 hours ago, angy15 said:

And Dr Dhillion a renowned schloar who has done his  Phd in Singh Sabha movement will tell you what Bhramanasim is in detail.

 

Ok, so now we have a definition of "brahmanism" after asking the same question around 8 times. Does this mean that you will only be answering question after they have been asked 8 times all the time? Or is it just a singular occurence?

 

I would like to discuss the photos you have posted, as well the videos you have posted with you. But coming back to this "Dr" who is an expert on the SIngh Sabha (which again I very much wish to discuss with you) "brahmanism is a virus.

 

But @angy15 you are aware that not all viruses are bad ? Or aren't you? Will I have to ask you this same question 8 times?

[angy15]

7 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

would like to discuss the photos you have posted, as well the videos you have posted with you.

Please go ahead .I would love to know abt these practices from you   because it will help me in  my discussion with my fellow hindu friends that Sikhs and Hindu have very  common practices .Also e  i can share this information with  my local Gurudwaras and  maybe  we  have maha prasad serving in our local Gurudwara Langar too.

Our agenda in this discussion  is to prove Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala preaches anti Gurmat .And Taksali & Co. are the only authoritarian  of Sikh preaching

 

[chatanga1]

I would love to go ahead but I can’t accept the definition of brahmanism as being a virus. Do you REALLY think that is an accurate definition?

Until I know what brahmanism is referring to how am I to be to give any views?

 

This is the ninth time I’m asking the question. In the interests of healthy discussion, define what Brahmanism is. Then we can proceed. 

[angy15]

10 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

would like to discuss the photos you have posted, as well the videos you have posted with you.

 

Don't keep asking , I think you don't want to   understand what Brahmanism is? Because you yourself is a part of that system .

Rest you can research yourself instead of dragging the discussion without any substance .

13 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Do you REALLY think that is an accurate definition?

Well if a Historian  like him speaks abt it may be yes. You and I are not scholars in this filed at the moment.

[chatanga1]

I need to keep asking but you refuse to say what it means. I really want to discuss it with you but I feel you are trying to take the discussion onto grounds where it doesn’t belong with a nonsensical definition of brahmanism.

 

Dhillon is no research/historian/doctor. I could easily tear to shreds some of his views but until you tell us what brahmanism is, why add another dimension in a already poor discussion on your part?