Article on other religions

[MysticMonist]

I found this article

http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248368191&ucat=7

I loved this "There are no religions beyond this world. Sikhism states that just because you belong to a religion does not mean anything. God is not limited to just one religion. Belonging to one religion will not help you attain salvation, you have to purify yourself by becoming a true moral person, help others, meditate on God, and love Him to be One with Him."

I really love the Sikh scripture as well.

 

 

[amardeep]

Beautiful 

[harsharan000]

 

Welcome MysticMonist,

the word religion comes from the Latin word religare, which means, that which reunites with its origin.

So, from worldly point of view, there maybe many religions, but if we all agree, there is only one Supreme everlasting changeless Truth, throughout the eras, naturally the path leading to that One reality, has to be one, it can be different for different people, or different races, civilizations....

If the Sun is One, the rays which come out, have to be same, in brightness, intensity, and warmth. Unless of course, some have different sunglasses, so they see different shades of lights. But even then, the light of each ray is the same.

At our worldly physical level, we may reach a particular place, by road, plane or ship, and by different means, such as walking, bicycle, car, helicopter, airplane, ship, etc.

But there where He exists, there is only one way, whosoever it may be. Because, races, creeds, nationalities, genders, may differ, but the essence of Truth in all of them, the soul, is the same undoubtedly.  Other thing is, we are limited, though we see the outer dresses(skin colors), but not that spark of essence of the Supreme Truth(Lord).

Thus, under thick dark  layers of ignorance. And under the deep engraved impressions of ignorance, the fools, the stupids, devilishly, fight and kill, in the name of religions, committing atrocities on other human beings.

Christianism, calls and knows that Supreme Truth as  the Word, and in Sikhee we know it as Nam or Shabad, muslims call it Kun, chinese call it Tao.

The Bible says: in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word is God.

So does Sree Guru Granth Sahib, tell us from its very beginning: Ik Oankar Sat Nam. There is only One creator Lord, which is Nam, and that Nam is Sat, means, changeless, eternal, everlasting Truth throughout the eras.

In the continuation of the above first verse, our beloved Guru Sahiban, have majestically described the nature,  the qualities and virtues of that Supreme Being, it is worth reading again and again.... such is the beauty, and  unparalleled greatness of that  Primal Being.

Well continuing  with the topic of this thread about religions, and as I explained what really religion means a few moments back,  Guru Jee, beautifully and in a very clear and precise language tells us : Nanak Nam jahaz hae, jin chareeya se utareeya paar.

Which means:  O Nanak, he whosoever boards the vessel of Nam, reaches the shore across( our True Home, beyond the perishable and transitory creation, including the planes of creation where gods, goddesses, fairies, angels, demigods, and other spiritual entities reside).

And when with the means of Nam, we reach  our true Home, we do not remain there as individual limited beings, for quite far behind, we already left our minds, thus as pure spirits, as pure souls, we merge in the Infinite unimaginable Ocean of, Truth, Consciousness,  Bliss.

Such is the unlimited grace of that Supreme Being, Sat Nam, by which the tiny little river merges in the Infinite Ocean, and becoming thus one, with that Mighty Infinite Ocean.

So as it is only by Nam, that one can reach Him, thus we can perfectly call that Nam, the universal path or religion, for any being, from any culture, caste, color or creed.

Once having understood the teachings of our Guru Sahiban, there is no place for hatred, jealousy or enmity, towards anyone,  for in all, the Light of that Supreme Being Sat Nam, shines in equal measure.

This is in essence Sikhee, but in reality far more beautiful, full of Truth, of purity, and excellence, which words can only poorly describe.

Stay blessed.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

[MysticMonist]

3 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

And when with the means of Nam, we reach  our true Home, we do not remain there as individual limited beings, for quite far behind, we already left our minds, thus as pure spirits, as pure souls, we merge in the Infinite unimaginable Ocean of, Truth, Consciousness,  Bliss.

Thank you for your lovely response! You put it very well. Indeed, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

You mention one of the things I've been trying to discern. So what is the True Nature of our souls? At highest mystical levels, the many scripturers talk about union before God. Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him. Is our "pure soul" God itself and we are just unaware of it? Or is our purity found in submitting to God as a creature fundamentally separate from the Godhead? Does this really matter or is it functionally the same?

I was struggling with this question in terms of Jesus and Christain beliefs about the incarnation. If we are all divine then Jesus' claim is no problem.  Otherwise, we need to say that Jesus is not God. At best, he is only speaking as if he is God, with the Voice of God. Yet in that case he never intended to claim his own divinity.

How would you respond? Who are you and who was/is Jesus?

P.S.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sach_Khand

I think this pretty much answered my question. It is the creature become unified with the Divine not realizing ones inner divine nature, right?

[sikhni777]

Jesus I believe was a highly enlightened soul who was aware of jis existence when God created the universe. He preached for the least amount of time - 3 years and no one at that time actually understood his parables.  He did not relay the message in a straight forward manner. However the world later embraced Christianity and the missionaries worked hard to colonose the world and bring some sort of civilisation.  A big thankyou to Jesus. None of his disciples were near him at the time of crucifixion. 

Believers in him came years after. 

In sikhism however the message comes straight forward.  Practice naam simran, earn by the sweat of your brow and share your earni gs with others.  Our Gurus have worked to perfectify every little portion of spirituality there might be to practice on this earth.

[MysticMonist]

11 minutes ago, sikhni777 said:

Jesus I believe was a highly enlightened soul who was aware of jis existence when God created the universe. He preached for the least amount of time - 3 years and no one at that time actually understood his parables.  He did not relay the message in a straight forward manner. However the world later embraced Christianity and the missionaries worked hard to colonose the world and bring some sort of civilisation.  A big thankyou to Jesus. None of his disciples were near him at the time of crucifixion. 

Believers in him came years after. 

In sikhism however the message comes straight forward.  Practice naam simran, earn by the sweat of your brow and share your earni gs with others.  Our Gurus have worked to perfectify every little portion of spirituality there might be to practice on this earth.

Thanks! That does help clarify things.

[harsharan000]

20 hours ago, MysticMonist said:

Thank you for your lovely response! You put it very well. Indeed, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

You mention one of the things I've been trying to discern.

1)So what is the True Nature of our souls? At highest mystical levels,

2)the many scripturers talk about union before God. Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him.

3)Is our "pure soul" God itself and we are just unaware of it?

Or is our purity found in submitting to God as a creature fundamentally separate from the Godhead?

4)Does this really matter or is it functionally the same?

I was struggling with this question in terms of Jesus and Christain beliefs about the incarnation.

5)If we are all divine then Jesus' claim is no problem.  Otherwise, we need to say that Jesus is not God. At best, he is only speaking as if he is God, with the Voice of God. Yet in that case he never intended to claim his own divinity.

6)How would you respond? Who are you and who was/is Jesus?

P.S.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sach_Khand

I think this pretty much answered my question. It is the creature become unified with the Divine not realizing ones inner divine nature, right?

Hi Brother MysticMonist,

I have divided your above post, in 6 main questions which you ask me, in order to answer you at the best of my ability.

1) Nature of the souls, according to Sikhee, is that the essence of the soul and Lord Wahiguru is the same, for if it was not so, the Bani would not say:

Jin har japeeya, se har hoeeya.

Which means, whosoever,meditates on Him, becomes one with Him.

You see, the beauty and excellence of the teachings of the Gurus in the Gurbani, is that, it is a very clear, transparent, a simple language, and direct to the point.  Many a times in a single verse, we can see the spirituality summarized in it, without the need of huge text volumes of mental interpretaions.

There is a beautiful verse from Gurbani which says: Sach Khand vasay Nirankar.  Which means, in the region of Sach Khand,  the region of ultimate Truth, resides only the formless Lord.  So logically, if the soul drop, reaches in that plane of Consciousness, it has to be of the same nature as Him, otherwise it can not merge and become one with Him.

 

2) When you say : Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him.  

It is the same as, when one meditates on Him with focused attention. The thing is, we have to totally loose our Iness, only then, does He exist.  For when we are, He is not, and when He is, we are not. So meditation,  prem bhakti, are the means to dissolve that our ego, our petty individual identity, with which we are so much attached, and we take it as a reality, that is why we are so weak, in our love, in our devotion to Him.

 

3-4) Yes, as said above, our soul is of the same essence of God, but due to our strong association with the mind, we are unable to realize Him within. That is why, our Gurus, the Bhagat Jan, Gurmukhs, Gursikhs, come at our level, in order to remind of our true spiritual nature, and to tell us that all our miseries are due of being separated from our True heavenly Father, call it Wahiguru, God, Nam or Shabad.

Some mystics, have beautifully explained that, souls are like rays emanating from the Sun at the early hours of the day, and when night approaches, they merge back into the Sun, thus becoming one with the Sun.  Now tell me, once  a ray merges into the Sun, can anyone, go and trace that particular ray?

in a similar way, once a soul merges into the Father, there is no distinction at all. For example you pour a drop of water into the Mighty Ocean, can anyone trace it? 

 

5-6) Brother, the reality of Jesus, was not his physical body, but the Light of Nam or Word, that level of pure Consciousness, manifested in that particular body, which is the True power,  which was Christ the Savior.

He clearly said: I and the Father are One, he who has seeth me, has seen the Father.

Now, after 2000 years, if we do not see Christ, does that mean, we can not see the Father, and we are condemned forever?   Of course not,  forJesus is not the body, but rather, it is that Light/Jot, of Nam, Word, Logos, or Shabad, which one sees within, when one meditates on Him, for the Light/Jot of God, is always the same  for ever and ever throughout the ages. Just like our Guru Sahiban, right from Guru Nanak Dev.

In Gurbani we also come to see something similar, when the Guru says: mat koee bharam bhoolay sansaar, bin Satgur, koee na utras paar.  Which means, let no one remain in delusion, without a Satguru, a True genuine guru, no one can cross the creation and reach the other side, means from here our physical level, to that one, where He resides, in Sach Khand, the region of ultimate Truth.

We people, limited beings, tend to take things literally, because of that our limitations, we see the coverings, we see the boxes containers(bodies, sizes, shapes, colors), but not the contents(soul/light), thus our feelings of hatred for others, other races, other religions, and  also our inflated ego.

For if we could only see Him, in all and everywhere, just as His devotees and lovers do, all the conflicts, disputes, wars, tyranny, would come to an end.

Stay blessed.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

[MysticMonist]

1 hour ago, harsharan000 said:

Hi Brother MysticMonist,

This is a more beautiful response than before, thank you!

"souls are like rays emanating from the Sun at the early hours of the day, and when night approaches, they merge back into the Sun, thus becoming one with the Sun."

I am familiar with the analogy of the Sun and it's rays. It's one of my favorite descriptions of God. I'm currently reading Plotinus' Enneads. Emanations also play a key role in Kabbalah which I continue to study as my understanding allows. I agree that in a sense that our souls are an emanation of the Divine. Kabbalah talks about the Yud, the divine spark within us that descends from God and it is the purpose of life to return to our Divine Source. I love the idea that our very existence (and the whole world) flows moment by moment from Divine Will. The Kabbalists say that the very fact we exist is proof that we still have a purpose, otherwise God would take us out of life in an instant. So that's why I am a "monist", I believe in one Source of all reality, truth and goodness. Since I mentioned Kabbalah, which is frequently misunderstood, I think the real "magic" of Kabbalah is the commandments of loving God and loving neighbor. Essentially this is core of all religions.

I loved the rest of the post too. I can get too wordy so I'll just simply say it was well put and we'll explained. Thank you.

As for whether this returning to God is a reintergration of our being with Divine Being like drops to the ocean or whether it is a returning home of a beloved servant, not equal to my Master, or both is beyond my ability to know. I'll have to take your word for it and more importantly put my faith in God that He will guide me arightly. As your scripture says

"Hearing of His Greatness, everyone calls Him Great, But just how Great His Greatness is-this is known only to those who have seen Him. His Value cannot be estimated; He cannot be described. Those who describe You, Lord, remain immersed and absorbed in You." Ang 9.

I posted this statement on the Sihk philosophy forum as well, but I wanted to share it with you as studying the Guru Granath has had a big effect one me:

By the way, traditionally Bahais don't recognize Guru Nanak as a "divine Manifestation" for several reasons. But I've become persuaded that this narrow view is mistaken. No one has a monopoly on God.

Blessings to you,

MM

 

 

[Soulfinder]

I have found a katha clip on Jesus by Sant Kartar Singh Ji Bhindrawale. These are not my views or thoughts but this is Baba Ji's recording so please don't be offended as i respect all religions.

 

[MysticMonist]

41 minutes ago, Soulfinder said:

I have found a katha clip on Jesus by Sant Kartar Singh Ji Bhindrawale. These are not my views or thoughts but this is Baba Ji's recording so please don't be offended as i respect all religions.

Unfortunately I only speak English. I'm slowly learning Hebrew.

I won't be offended at all. My family is Christain. I am interested in all religions. I do belong to a local and an online Baha'i community, but I'm more of a Platonist than anything else. 

[amardeep]

What is a platonist ?

[MysticMonist]

3 hours ago, amardeep said:

What is a platonist

Its a philosophy. Plato is a Greek philosopher who taught that physical world is but a shadow of an ideal, higher realm. He believes in one Absolute source of truth and beauty, which he calls God. Our happiness lies in practicing virtue. 

I'm also a big fan of Plotinus and the neoplatonists. They heavily influenced Christanity, Islam and Kabbalah.

I don't know if any of you are into western philosophy at all. Plato is pretty much the father of philosophy in the west.

[sikhni777]

Virtue and getting closer to God is the basis of all religions.  However evil is the driver. Many people will do good to avoid something evil befalling them.

Good would not exist if evil was not there.  Good is a comparison and a complete opposite of evil. 

Evil is what brings good out I.e. evil had to fall upon Jesus for him to be crucified and gain his glory.

We go to church or to the temple so that we can be saved from evil.

So what does plato say about this relationship between evil and good.

 

 

[MysticMonist]

1 hour ago, sikhni777 said:

Virtue and getting closer to God is the basis of all religions.  However evil is the driver. Many people will do good to avoid something evil befalling them.

Good would not exist if evil was not there.  Good is a comparison and a complete opposite of evil. 

Evil is what brings good out I.e. evil had to fall upon Jesus for him to be crucified and gain his glory.

We go to church or to the temple so that we can be saved from evil.

So what does plato say about this relationship between evil and good.

 

 

This is a good question. I (and Plato) don't believe in an independent existence to evil. One way of thinking about it is that evil is the NO to God's YES. It's like darkness to light, it's nothing in and of itself. Plato thinks we choose evil because we mistake the sensory pleasures of the world for our ultimate good and happiness which can only be truly found in virtue (God). I like the Sikh teaching of the five theives from what I understand of it. It's a bit condescending to think people make poor choices because they are simply ignorant. Evil or corrupt desires I believe really do steal away our intentions and love that should be focused on God instead.

This http://www.sikhanswers.com/god-and-his-universe/what-is-the-sikh-view-on-satan-or-the-devil/

makes alot of sense. Bahais also don't believe in Satan per say but that he is a metaphor for the "insistent self".

[sarabatam]

All religions point to self realization, unfortunately lot of people wrap their head around pointers rather abiding whats pointer pointing towards. 

 

Ang-1351

ਜਿਨਿ ਆਤਮ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ॥  जिनि आतम ततु न चीन्हिआ ॥  Jin āṯam ṯaṯ na cẖīnĥi▫ā.  Whoever does not realize the essence of the soul -

ਸਭ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਅਬੀਨਿਆ ॥  सभ फोकट धरम अबीनिआ ॥  Sabẖ fokat ḏẖaram abīni▫ā.  all his religious actions are hollow and false.

[Soulfinder]

16 hours ago, MysticMonist said:

Unfortunately I only speak English. I'm slowly learning Hebrew.

I won't be offended at all. My family is Christain. I am interested in all religions. I do belong to a local and an online Baha'i community, but I'm more of a Platonist than anything else. 

Veer ji what Sant ji is saying Guru Gobind Singh Ji says khalsa mero roop hai khaas khalsa mehi ho karo nivas khalsa maero mukh hai anga khalsae kae hon sadh sadh sanga. 

 

This means in english.

Khalsa is my true form Within the Khalsa, I abide Khalsa is my main support I am always with the Khalsa.

 

This is just a simple transalation of the shabad and the rest can be read here http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Khalsa_Mahima.

 

So back to the video now Sant Ji afterwoods says Jesus says you are my sheep and i don't know the next word in english. Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said his followers you are my sheep, dogs,wolves etc and that you khalsa are my form and that no prophet avtar has given his form to any of his followers.

 

I might be wrong in translating it and if i have can of members please correct or add your views on it as i don't want to upset or offend anyone with this.

 

Thanks

[MysticMonist]

3 hours ago, sarabatam said:

All religions point to self realization, unfortunately lot of people wrap their head around pointers rather abiding whats pointer pointing towards. 

 

Ang-1351

ਜਿਨਿ ਆਤਮ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ॥  जिनि आतम ततु न चीन्हिआ ॥  Jin āṯam ṯaṯ na cẖīnĥi▫ā.  Whoever does not realize the essence of the soul -

ਸਭ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਅਬੀਨਿਆ ॥  सभ फोकट धरम अबीनिआ ॥  Sabẖ fokat ḏẖaram abīni▫ā.  all his religious actions are hollow and false.

That's a wonderful passage.

It reminds of the Zen parable of the finger (teaching) pointing to the moon (enlightenment/God) which maybe what you are referencing.

It also reminds me of one of my favorite passages from the Hebrew prophet Amos

"“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
    your assemblies are a stench to me.
²² Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
²³ Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
²⁴ But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!"

Amos 5:21-24

 

 

[MysticMonist]

3 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji what Sant ji is saying Guru Gobind Singh Ji says khalsa mero roop hai khaas khalsa mehi ho karo nivas khalsa maero mukh hai anga khalsae kae hon sadh sadh sanga. 

 

This means in english.

Khalsa is my true form Within the Khalsa, I abide Khalsa is my main support I am always with the Khalsa.

 

This is just a simple transalation of the shabad and the rest can be read here http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Khalsa_Mahima.

 

So back to the video now Sant Ji afterwoods says Jesus says you are my sheep and i don't know the next word in english. Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said his followers you are my sheep, dogs,wolves etc and that you khalsa are my form and that no prophet avtar has given his form to any of his followers.

 

I might be wrong in translating it and if i have can of members please correct or add your views on it as i don't want to upset or offend anyone with this.

 

Thanks

I read that Sikhs do not believe in prophets. The role of the Guru is obviously very important to you. I think that this is a much deeper topic and the role of Divine Messengers is a key part of my personal faith and I'd love to dig deeper on another thread perhaps. It's a very profound subject.

I appreciate your continued insistence on not wanting to be offensive. I should state the same. I have deep respect for the Sikh faith and I'm on the forum because I have fallen in love with the Guru Granath. Anything I might say thats offensive is due to my ignorance.

[sikhni777]

10 hours ago, MysticMonist said:

That'p. erful passage.

It reminds oworshif the Zen parable of the finger (teaching) pointing to the moon (enlightenment/God) which maybe what you are referencing.

It also reminds me of one of my favorite passages from the Hebrew prophet Amos

"“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
    your assemblies are a stench to me.
²² Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
²³ Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
²⁴ But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!"

Amos 5:21-24

 

 

God just needs true worship wjich comes from deep down from the heart, not false pretending worshIp.

[Lucky]

16 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

So back to the video now Sant Ji afterwoods says Jesus says you are my sheep and i don't know the next word in english. Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said his followers you are my sheep, dogs,wolves etc and that you khalsa are my form and that no prophet avtar has given his form to any of his followers.

 

I might be wrong in translating it and if i have can of members please correct or add your views on it as i don't want to upset or offend anyone with this.

I've not listened to the video , but  The shepherd and his staff have very sacred meanings. The "good shepherd" is  an allegory to Jesus(avtar of God) and to God himself.

The flock of sheep, the pastures are connected to what we call "sangat"

Nothing demeaning about using shepherd figuration for guru, but the above translation is demeaning.

[Lucky]

12 hours ago, MysticMonist said:

It reminds of the Zen parable of the finger (teaching) pointing to the moon (enlightenment/God) which maybe what you are referencing.

welcome to the forum

I like the above, I will add "Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly glory!"   see if you get it?

 

[Soulfinder]

2 hours ago, Lucky said:

I've not listened to the video , but  The shepherd and his staff have very sacred meanings. The "good shepherd" is  an allegory to Jesus(avtar of God) and to God himself.

The flock of sheep, the pastures are connected to what we call "sangat"

Nothing demeaning about using shepherd figuration for guru, but the above translation is demeaning.

Veer true you are entittled to your own opinion and i don't blame you for not wanting to listen to it as a few people were offended on the youtube page link comments side.

 

But its your choice if you want to or not to listen to it.

[paapiman]

18 hours ago, MysticMonist said:

I read that Sikhs do not believe in prophets. The role of the Guru is obviously very important to you. I think that this is a much deeper topic and the role of Divine Messengers is a key part of my personal faith and I'd love to dig deeper on another thread perhaps. It's a very profound subject.

@MysticMonist - Welcome to the forum brother.

Sikhs do believe in prophets, in the sense that we do respect them and believe that they existed.

I hope you are aware that we consider the 11 Gurus to be the incarnations of the Almighty God. They are way above the divine messengers (of Abrahamic faiths) and deities (of Eastern religions) for us.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:12 PM, MysticMonist said:

I won't be offended at all.

There is nothing offensive or demeaning in the video posted by Soulfinder jee. 

The narrator is a great Sikh Saint. He said that Jesus Christ called himself a Shepherd and his followers as sheep. Compared to that, Sikh Satgurus gave more respect to their followers. Tenth Master (Guru) vested all his power in the hands of his followers (known as Khalsa). He praised and loved them more than any other prophet, deity, saint, messenger, etc. He called the Khalsa as his own Guru. He sacrificed his family members for his followers.

Sikh Masters (Gurus) were completely devoid of all manifestations/forms of ego. They were full of humility. Their humility in unparalleled in the history of mankind.

The analogy of Jesus Christ is good, but the ones used by Tenth Master are better and full of humility.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Soulfinder]

15 minutes ago, paapiman said:

There is nothing offensive or demeaning in the video posted by Soulfinder jee. 

The narrator is a great Sikh Saint. He said that Jesus Christ called himself a Shepherd and his followers as sheep. Compared to that, Sikh Satgurus gave more respect to their followers. Tenth Master (Guru) vested all his power in the hands of his followers (known as Khalsa). He praised and loved them more than any other prophet, deity, saint, messenger, etc. He called the Khalsa as his own Guru. He sacrificed his family members for his followers.

Sikh Masters (Gurus) were completely devoid of all manifestations/forms of ego. They were full of humility. Their humility in unparalleled in the history of mankind.

The analogy of Jesus Christ is good, but the ones used by Tenth Master are better and full of humility.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Thanks very very much veer ji as i am glad you have explained it far better than i did and i am happy that you veer didn't find it offensive.