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paapiman

The Tale of Kharag Singh

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@chatanga1 - Can you please post the verses where it says that Kharag Singh had Muslims in his army?

@amardeep - How are you so sure that this tale is not historical at all? Poetic embellishments have been done in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (not sure about the Chartiars) within historical events. So the tales are true, but they have been described uniquely by Maharaaj using poetic devices.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

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The story of Kharag Singh is a work of "historical-fan-fiction", the same genre as the Assassin's Creed games.

The author imagined what would happen if God fought a battle against the strongest warlord, in order to tell an epic story of an epic battle between the two.

As far as I know, this character does not appear in Bhagwad Puran or Mahabharat.

The Name 'Kharag Singh' is a(n intentionally) modern name, compared to that Era, and should also give it away as a work of "historical-fan-fiction".

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18 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

The story of Kharag Singh is a work of "historical-fan-fiction", the same genre as the Assassin's Creed games.

The author imagined what would happen if God fought a battle against the strongest warlord, in order to tell an epic story of an epic battle between the two.

As far as I know, this character does not appear in Bhagwad Puran or Mahabharat.

The Name 'Kharag Singh' is a(n intentionally) modern name, compared to that Era, and should also give it away as a work of "historical-fan-fiction".

Exactly 

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2 hours ago, amardeep said:

As chatanga mentioned, Muslims are mentioned in it which means it’s not a part of the original version. 

What's the word used? Is it "Turk"? Turks does not always mean Muslims.

There is a mention of another demon who was killed by Krishna jee. In the katha, Gyani jee refereed to him as a Turk. 

IMHO, it refers to kings of the middle east (pre and post Islam).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

The story of Kharag Singh is a work of "historical-fan-fiction", the same genre as the Assassin's Creed games.

What's your source?

1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

 

1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

As far as I know, this character does not appear in Bhagwad Puran or Mahabharat.

That does not prove anything. Sri Satguru jee (Almighty Waheguru) was all-knowing. He could have easily penned down historical facts/events, which are not found anywhere else.

1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

The Name 'Kharag Singh' is a(n intentionally) modern name,

Most likely, the word Kharag is pretty old.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 1/24/2018 at 11:48 AM, amardeep said:

As chatanga mentioned, Muslims are mentioned in it which means it’s not a part of the original version. 

Is there any indication in the Gurbani (Sri Krishan Avtaar) itself that this tale is fiction and not fact?

Have you heard any Sampradai scholar say that it is fiction?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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 just cont take the fact his admin cut got man handled by a Singh.  Also used deceit form a deva to  distract Kharag Singh before he cowardly chopped his head behind his back.  Then his ass got handed back to him.

Nah not going to provide evidence, use your own tools to get to the truth rather than getting spoon fed and also use that as an excuse to prove you are "right". 

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yes according to your mat..

you cannot fathom such things hence asking for physical evidence all the time..when you get to a certain avastah, certain things manifest themselves..(circle of arguments surrounding this...so cannot be bothered.) 

I could ask such stupid questions...was there a guru nank,?? if so then where is the birth certificate? i could go on for ages in regards to physical evidence. 

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56 minutes ago, amardeep said:

The discussion on tapoban forum is quite interesting. I was not aware, that Kharag Singh is fighting on the evil side against goodnes.

 

Please provide the link to that topic.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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20 hours ago, amardeep said:

The whole battle is an epic. It also includes shiva etc. Epic of dimensions. It’s not historical 

Yes. The stories of Shiv ji and Krishan ji are allegorical. They are both representations of God in the two major theological structures of India -  Shaivism and Vaishnavism -  respectively.

6 hours ago, amardeep said:

The discussion on tapoban forum is quite interesting. I was not aware, that Kharag Singh is fighting on the evil side against goodnes.

He is fighting against Krishan ji, God, so it must be assumed that he is on the evil side. Good people don't fight against God.

But he does redeem himself by recognizing that he is fighting God. So it's not a totally evil character like Hiranyakashup, who did not recognize who Narsingh ji is.

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22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Well, a poet can describe a historical event using allegories.

So the stories of God that are mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji ie the stories of Vishnu ji, are Meta-Truths, are Meta-History.

Truths that apply to all humans and their condition are Meta-Truths.

History that applies to all humans and their condition, is a Meta-History.

The story of Varah ji lifting the earth, is a Meta-Truth and Meta-History.

It is talking about God, as consciousness, and how it brings the world from obscurity into clarity, from non-existence to existence.

Thus meditating on Varah ji, improves ones state of consciousness by improving clarity and decreasing suffering.

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8 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

It is talking about God, as consciousness, and how it brings the world from obscurity into clarity, from non-existence to existence.

The above is the abstract idea associated with Sri Varha jee (Avtaar of Vishnu jee). It does not prove that the physical event did not occur.

Listen to the video clip below and you should be able to understand that historical events/scientific facts can have abstract ideas behind them too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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4 hours ago, paapiman said:

The above is the abstract idea associated with Sri Varha jee (Avtaar of Vishnu jee). It does not prove that the physical event did not occur.

It's not an abstract idea.

It is even more fundamentally real than the physical reality.

That's why Guru Arjun Dev ji says - Satya naam tera para poorbla.
(Meta-)Truth is God's primal names.

(Meta-)Truth when it is written in a narrative form, looks like a regular old story and then it misinterpreted as a regular old story, as you are doing here.

You could ask "Is there evidence of this story actually taking place?"

Well the story actually takes place all the time. It is always occurring.

Varah ji is always holding up reality.

He is always fighting back chaos and upholding order.

You can observe him doing so as you read this post.

The fact that you can experience the post and read it, means that Varah has upheld the reality.

If he had not done so, then you would not have any experience, and there would be no reality.

You are taking that story that is taking place all the time, and reducing it to one that only takes place once.

And then you say that this above explanation (about meta-truth) does not prove that that story does not take place once.

I'll concede. I'll give you that it doesn't prove it.

But then again, I also think you are missing the point of the story if you are looking for physical occurrences.

 

Anyways

Coming back to Kharag Singh episode...

Kavi Shyam ji has taken the character of God, Krishan ji and had him fight anther opponent.

Now the question is, "is Kharag Singh a historical character?"

Before we can answer that we must ask "What establishes Krishan ji as a historical character?"

You'll find that we are mostly relying on texts like Bhagwat Puran, Mahabharat etc.

Well the texts from which we find out about Krishan ji - ie Bhagwat Puran, Mahabharat etc, do not mention Kharag Singh.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Kharag Singh is also a modern name and there are also a presence of other modern names in Kavi Shyam ji's version.

If you look at how massive this battle is, there is no way that it would not have been documented, when other much smaller skirmishes have been written down.

That is evidence enough that Kharag Singh was a character that was created by Kavi Shaym ji.

Well you could say "Kavi Shyam ji is Guru Sahib's pen name and he is all knowing. Couldn't he have brought a forgotten a historical character to the forefront?"

Sure an all-knowing person could do that.

But an all-knowing person could also make up a character,  in order to give insights, to inspire warrior spirit or simply to entertain.

An all-knowing person could also choose to not mess with previously recorded histories.

We cannot prove one way or another what an all-knowing person is doing in any particular case.

We have to look at other sources in order to infer what their intention is.

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On 1/29/2018 at 11:56 AM, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji here listen to this link i found by Gyani Avtar Singh Ji on the subject

 

http://kam1825.podbean.com/e/sakhi-kharag-singh/

Excellent find bro. Gyani jee summarized the tale of Maharaja Kharag Singh jee very well.

Gurparsaad, Daas will provide more details on this topic after listening to his Parsang in Dasam Gurbani.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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