Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Excuse me if this is a daft question or it has been asked before, but i myself am not a Singh and my immediate family are not Sikhs. 'Singh' is a male name and 'Kaur' is for Sikh females, right? Say if a 'Singh' marries a non-Sikh or mona Sikh/Punjabi, would she take 'Singh' as her surname? Is 'Singh' even supposed to be a surname/family name, or is it supposed to be a middle-name? Thanks, ps, I dont believe i have met a Mrs or Miss 'Singh' before... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 I have met so many Sikhs and their wives use Singh as last name. I have close friend and she uses Singh as last name even though I know her last name is different. As per Sikhism you can use your last name till you become Amritdhari, correct me if im wrong? but after baptization you should remove your last name as it conflicts with Khalsa tradition. Once you become khalsa then you're following khalsa family of Guru Gobind Singh ji and in that case it’s against Khalsa panth to use your last name. I don't know when this last name tradition started in Sikhs but in India it doesn't matter to anyone till this date and everyone uses kaur and Singh even if they are not Amritdhari... I assume this tradition started by NRI Sikhs not by Indian Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Sum hindus hav Singh for der surname, even women. But every sikh male as a middle name Singh, and every sikh female has a middle name Kaur. =============================================== Singh meaning Lion Kaur meaning Princess or even Prince. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 middle name???? can u plz explain? isn't Singh/kaur supposed to be da only last name??? after da first name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 I've also notice dat American and Canadians sikhs hav Singh or Kaur as der last name, and British sikhs hav der names as der middle name, den der family name after. But who really cares, jus as long as u got da name der. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 I've also notice dat American and Canadians sikhs hav Singh or Kaur as der last name, and British sikhs hav der names as der middle name, den der family name after. But who really cares, jus as long as u got da name der. It matter if you are baptized... See my next post... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 When people take amrit they should drop their lastname Writer: Preetmohan Singh Ahluwalia When someone uses his last name it does not imply that he is promoting caste ideology. Caste system is a part of Hindu society which believes that people are born into different castes and their roles are fixed according to the caste they are born into. Sikhism does not believe in this discriminatory view. To believe that the Tenth Guru administered Amrit and gave the name Singh and Kaur to eliminate people's discriminatory attitude towards others is to belittle the Guru's contribution to mankind. Sikhs were already a just and humane society. I don't think that the Guru had any doubt that Sikhs would treat others bad and thus wanted to administer Amrit to prevent them from doing so. Sujan Rae Bhandari, while describing Sikhs writes in Khulasat-ut-Twarikh in the year 1696: "In their eyes, their own people and others as well as friends and foes are all alike. They love their friends, but they do not ill-treat their enemies...They cherish such faith in their Guru as is not found in other communities. They utter his name, and consider serving him as the most meritorious act. If a wayfarer arrives at midnight and takes the name of Guru Nanak, he is treated as a friend and a brother, no matter he may be an utter stranger, or even a thief, or a robber, or an evil-doer." Sikhs had already developed such high character. The teachings of the first nine Gurus had laid a strong foundation for the community. The Tenth Guru administered Amrit to break Sikhs free from Dharam Nash, Karam Nash, Janam Nash, Sharam Nash and Bharam Nash. This was a formal declaration. In other words he bestowed upon the Sikhs: 1. Freedom from all previous religions, customs and practices. 2. Obliteration of and freedom from the effect of the past bad deeds. 3. Freedom from the influence of the previous caste or family (ancestor worship). 4. Freedom from the stigma or distinction attached to a calling or a hereditary profession. 5. Freedom from all rituals, prejudices and inhibitions. Each freedom has a socio-spiritual implication. This was necessary because Khalsa was to be a community of men and women who were greatest of the great and purest of the pure. They were God's own people who would spend their lives to uphold truth and justice; fight injustice and work towards the creation of a just and fair world that God desires for man. The beauty in all this was that the Khalsa was to be a community of volunteers. Khalsa's mission was universal so it was illogical for them to have any identity except that they had volunteered their lives to uphold and protect righteousness in this world without any sectarian distinctions. Sikhs volunteered to uphold God's Will on earth. No wonder, the following was recited: Wahe Guru ji ka Khalsa Wahe Guru ji ki fateh The Khalsa is Thine, O Lord! So does the Victory Belong to You This was the final act - the culmination of Guru Nanak's ideology. The Grand Finale! This also put the final seal on Sikh identity - both temporal and spiritual. It was TO THIS brotherhood of men and women that Guru Gobind Singh bestowed temporal authority at the time of his passing away. These were those noble souls who fought injustice, faced persecution and helped Sikhism grow and flourish. Guru Gobind Singh's strong sense of obligation to do his best for his Sikhs is significantly expressed in one of his "Hazare-Shabads", which proves that the common Sikh was raised almost to the dignity of the Guru. All the battles I have won against tyranny I have fought with the devoted backing of these people; Through them only have I been able to bestow gifts, Through their help I have escaped from harm; The love and generosity of these Sikhs Has enriched my heart and my home. Through their grace I have attained all learning, Through their help, in battle, I have slain all my enemies; I was born to serve them, through them I reached eminence. What would I have been without their kind and ready help? There are millions of insignificant people like me? True service is the service of these people: I am not inclined to serve others of higher castes; Charity will bear fruit, in this and the next world, If given to such worthy people as these. All other sacrifices and charities are profitless, From top to toe, whatever I call my own, All possessions, I dedicate to these people. Since Khalsa was dedicated to God there was no place for Khalsa to conform to any past ideology. God does not discriminate, neither does Khalsa. God is just so should Khalsa be. God is fearless, so is Khalsa. By giving the name Singh and Kaur Guru Gobind Singh eliminated every possibility of Khalsa being IDENTIFIED (by others) as someone other than who they truly were - a godly, humane and non-discriminatory community. Anyone who accepted Guru Nanak's path invariably becomes casteless and non-discriminatory. By accepting the same name Singh and Kaur they COMPLETELY DENIED others from knowing their past identities. It was immaterial. People who had dedicated their lives for the sake of humanity had no place for any past identity. God does not discriminate based on identity or birth. Neither would Khalsa. It is in this sense that those Sikhs who use Singh and Kaur as their last names are a step ahead of others who don't. They make a statement that not only do we not believe in casteism and other identity (national, family, tribe etc) we also don't INTEND people to relate us to an ideology that we don't believe in. On the other hand a Sikh who does not believe in casteism but uses his last name CANNOT STOP people from identifying his past identity even though he may not believe in it. This is where the difference lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Ok, thanks for that article. I had always thought 'Singh' and 'Kaur' were middle names to identify amritdharis. Personally, my ethnic identity and family name are important to me. This may make me less of a Sikh, but im still a believer in God and the path laid down by the Guru's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Personally, my ethnic identity and family name are important to me. This may make me less of a Sikh, but im still a believer in God and the path laid down by the Guru's. There is no less sikh. It's simple method. If you're Amritdhari then you become part of Khalsa family of Guru Gobind singh ji and two identities are not acceptable, but if you're not then it is acceptable as far as you don't start descriminating on the bases of your ethnic background or take pride and on the other hand call yourself sikh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 I was not born a Sikh but consider myself to be so (mona at least) as i enjoy learning about Sikhism and have embraced it as the religion i wish to identify with, learn from and try to make decisions by. I dont discriminate and think of my culture as any better than other cultures or my ethnicity as being superior etc, but i love Punjab and Punjabiyat, so i guess you could call that personal pride in my culture and ethnicity. Is that wrong according to Sikhism? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 lol veera it all depends on wat bit of punjabi culture u luv?? often punjabi culture n sikhi clash...majorly! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I was not born a Sikh but consider myself to be so (mona at least) as i enjoy learning about Sikhism and have embraced it as the religion i wish to identify with, learn from and try to make decisions by. I dont discriminate and think of my culture as any better than other cultures or my ethnicity as being superior etc, but i love Punjab and Punjabiyat, so i guess you could call that personal pride in my culture and ethnicity. Is that wrong according to Sikhism? Read Guru Granth Sahib if you want to learn about sikhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 lol veera it all depends on wat bit of punjabi culture u luv?? often punjabi culture n sikhi clash...majorly! Well, i like to learn about the history of Punjab. I like Punjabi foods, dress, sweets, festivals, music etc I cant speak Punjabi but can read Gurmukhi script to some extent. Im looking for some speech classes in Punjabi which my local Gurdwara doesnt really offer. Im interested in current affairs of Punjab... Not sure what else to add at this moment. I have not found any of these things to have clashed in any major way with Sikhism. Read Guru Granth Sahib if you want to learn about sikhism. Oh wow look at this. And this guy is the "administrator". Well Shukriya truthsingh Sahib Ji, you are most helpful and well respected individual. LOL LOL LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 PN, spend a summer in india and ull be able to speak punjabi fluently 8) dont ur family speak punjabi at home? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 PN, spend a summer in india and ull be able to speak punjabi fluently 8) dont ur family speak punjabi at home? My parents go back and forth between Punjabi and English, Punjabi and Hindi, even Hindi and English. When i was a kid i didnt have the interest to learn and at some point was ashamed to when on the odd occasion i had people asking me if i could say something in "paki" or do i speak in "paki" etc. (I dont live in an area where there are many Punjabis or just South Asians in general) I made a big mistake not learning Punjabi and am paying for it now... I cant learn from my parents because i dont have the patience to learn from them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Oh wow look at this. And this guy is the "administrator". Well Shukriya truthsingh Sahib Ji, you are most helpful and well respected individual. LOL LOL LOL Internet respect doesn't count in my book of respect but I'm here to help where I feel I can help you and others. Guru Granth Sahib has great importance within sikhism and if you really want to learn then the easiest way to learn is get the message of Guru Granth sahib. If you will learn sikhism through articles then you will end up confusing yourself. I didn't get your joke? Or you thought I made one? Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Punjabi Nationalist Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Internet respect doesn't count in my book of respect but I'm here to help where I feel I can help you and others. Guru Granth Sahib has great importance within sikhism and if you really want to learn then the easiest way to learn is get the message of Guru Granth sahib. If you will learn sikhism through articles then you will end up confusing yourself. I didn't get your joke? Or you thought I made one? Thanks! Sorry Sahib Ji, i misunderstood your suggestion for some idiotic remark on your part. You are right, better to learn about Sikhism from Sri Guru Granth Sahib than to read unofficial articles written by who knows... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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