When to Pronounce Dadda ਦ as Za ਜ਼ - How to Read Guru Granth Sahib (Part 3)

[BhagatSingh]

It took a few years but I have finally figured out how to read Guru Granth Sahib correctly. While I am still in the process of learning and refining my pronunciations and developing a better flow, I have got the basics down.

 

One of the things we are taught is that you don't pronounce Sihari ( ਿ  ) and Aunkar (   ੁ ) at the end of a word. 

This is wrong.

 

1. You always pronounce the Sihari.

 

 

2. You always pronounce the Aunkar if it is part of the actual word.

You don't pronounce it when its sole purpose is to indicate a masculine singular noun.

 

 

In this thread, we will be looking at how to pronounce Dadda ਦ

 

Now in most words Dadda ਦ is going to make the Th- sound where you touch your tongue behind the top row of your front teeth.

This I will call the hard Th-.

There is another sound though, which is a soft Th-, and it almost sounds like Z.

If you are from the west, say - 'this', 'there', 'although'.

If you have an Indian accent, you won't notice it. You will pronounce a hard Th- that sounds exactly like Dadda ਦ from Punjabi.

But if you have a western accent, Canadian, Amercan, etc. You will hear that 'th' is not exactly the Dadda ਦ from Punjabi.

It is softer and borderlines on the Z sound.

This is because in the West we don't touch the back of your teeth, but actually we tough the bottom of the teeth, which softens the sound.

 

My point is that sometimes when Guru ji came across Arabic, words, that had a special type of Z sound that was pronounced by touching the teeth. They used Dadda ਦ to indicate it because Dadda is the closest letter to that type of Z sound.

 

Dadda ( ਦ ) as Hard Th-

The normal Dadda.

ਦੁਖ

Pronounced as Dukh

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ॥

hukmee uttam neech hukmi likhi dukh sukh paeeyeh

ਹੁਕਮਿ, ਲਿਖਿ - Remember from past lesson that the Siharis are pronounced all the time.

ਉਤਮੁ , ਨੀਚੁ - Also remember that when Aunkar is solely used to incidate singular masculine and is not part of the word then it is not pronounced.

 

ਦਾਤਿ

Pronounced as Daati

ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਦਾਤਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥

gavai ko daati jaanai neeshaann

 

Dadda as Soft Th- or Z

Special Dadda.

 

ਨਦਰੀ

Pronounced as Nazaree

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥

karmee aavai kaprda Nazree mokh(sh) duar

ਨਦਰ - Notice how we pronounced the ਦ as Z - Nazar.

Mokh(sh) - This will be covered in a future lesson.Just like how Dadda sometimes make the Z sound, Khakha sometimes makes the Shatkone sound.

 

ਹਾਦਰਾ

Pronounced as Haazraa

ਹਦੂਰਿ

Pronounced as Hazoori

ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਵੇਖੈ ਹਾਦਰਾ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥

Gavai ko vekhai Haazraa Hazoori

 

ਕਾਦੀਆ

Pronounced as Qazeeaan.

ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

Vakht na paayo Qazeeaan je likhni lekh kurann

Why is the n there? Here it is plural so we add a bindi to the end indicated by n.

If Guru Sahib was calling out to a Qazee "Hey Qazeeaa" then there would be no bindi (n) sound.

[Xylitol]

vir ji, I would say that the letter is always pronounced as written, especially a dadda. Other letters can be modified by a bindey where appropriate. But bindey does not apply to dadda. 

That being said, I recognize that there are different schools of thought when it comes to santhya so I don't want to get into debate on the  matter. Just wanted to share an alternative viewpoint. bhul chuk maaf.

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Xylitol said:

That being said, I recognize that there are different schools of thought when it comes to santhya so I don't want to get into debate on the  matter. Just wanted to share an alternative viewpoint. bhul chuk maaf.

Do you have knowledge of other schools of thought?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[chatanga1]

On 06/03/2018 at 6:16 PM, BhagatSingh said:

ਨਦਰੀ

Pronounced as Nazaree

ਹਾਦਰਾ

Pronounced as Haazraa

ਹਦੂਰਿ

Pronounced as Hazoori

ਕਾਦੀਆ

Pronounced as Qazeeaan.

 

Bhagat Singh Ji, do you know there is a place in Gurdaspur called "Qadian" which is pronounced just as it is written in Gurmukhi. Even the Muslims pronounce it this way with a "d."

 

I do not believe that what you have written is correct, and have never heard any paath with it said as such.

 

In Arabic there are 4 ways to pronounce "z", even though in Persian there is only 1. It may be that a different pronunciation of the arabic "z" resulted in it becoming a "d" but that is exactly what it is.  

[BhagatSingh]

On 3/11/2018 at 12:24 PM, Xylitol said:

vir ji, I would say that the letter is always pronounced as written, especially a dadda.

That's simply not true.

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥

ਭੁਖ has an addak. Bhukhkh, with a stress on the Kh. Not simply Bhukh.

But even more interesting is -

ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as Banha, which means to tie, not banna which is a ledge.

ਮਸਕਤ is pronounced as Mushakkat. Not maskat.

Sassa here is pronounced as Sha with an addak.

In this manner, dadda is sometimes pronounced as Z.

 

Guru Grantth Sahib was written at a time when the common people didn't read or write and speaking orally was the dominant way to communicate by far. So how words are pronounced would have been understood through memory and practice rather than relying upon written text.

So pronunciation would be understood without creating a unique character for every sound.

Sa and Sha share the same lette, Sassa.

Z sound shares the letters as Dadda and Jajja.

Shatkone sound shares the letter as Khakha and sometimes Sassa.

Addak and Bindis are pronounced even when they are not indicated directly.

On 3/11/2018 at 2:24 PM, chatanga1 said:

Bhagat Singh Ji, do you know there is a place in Gurdaspur called "Qadian" which is pronounced just as it is written in Gurmukhi. Even the Muslims pronounce it this way with a "d."

They are pronouncing it incorrectly due to wrong tradition that WE have started.

Because of his religious beliefs, he named the center of the 80 villages 'Islam Pur Qazi' and governed from there. Over time, the name of the town changed to 'QaziMaji' ('Maji' means 'bull', referring to the animal still found in abundance in Qadian). Later, it was called just 'Qadi' and eventually became known as 'Qadian'.

Why was it later called Qadi/Qadian? because -

Qadian and the surrounding areas later fell to the Ramgharia Sikhs who offered the ruling Qazis, two villages which they refused. In 1834, during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the region consisting of Qadian and five adjoining villages was given to Mirza Ghulam Murtaza, father of Ghulam Ahmad in return for military support in Kashmir, Mahadi, the Kulu valley, Peshawar and Hazara.^[2]

So we are pronouncing it wrong and now they are doing the same.

On 3/11/2018 at 2:24 PM, chatanga1 said:

In Arabic there are 4 ways to pronounce "z", even though in Persian there is only 1. It may be that a different pronunciation of the arabic "z" resulted in it becoming a "d" but that is exactly what it is.  

It didn't become a D, it is still a Z, pronounced by raising the tongue and touching the top row of front teeth like youdo when you say D, instead of lowering the tongue and touching the bottom gums, which is how we pronounce Z in Jazz.

It is spelled with D because that's the closest letter than indicates its pronunciation.

 

 

[chatanga1]

On 18/03/2018 at 1:29 AM, BhagatSingh said:

ਮਸਕਤ is pronounced as Mushakkat. Not maskat.

 

Ok. ਸਿਮਰਨ is also pronounced as Sim-ran ਸਿਮ ਰਨ rather than si-maran ਸਿ ਮਰਨ ||

 

On 18/03/2018 at 1:29 AM, BhagatSingh said:

They are pronouncing it incorrectly due to wrong tradition that WE have started.

Because of his religious beliefs, he named the center of the 80 villages 'Islam Pur Qazi' and governed from there. Over time, the name of the town changed to 'QaziMaji' ('Maji' means 'bull', referring to the animal still found in abundance in Qadian). Later, it was called just 'Qadi' and eventually became known as 'Qadian'.

Why was it later called Qadi/Qadian? because -

Qadian and the surrounding areas later fell to the Ramgharia Sikhs who offered the ruling Qazis, two villages which they refused. In 1834, during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the region consisting of Qadian and five adjoining villages was given to Mirza Ghulam Murtaza, father of Ghulam Ahmad in return for military support in Kashmir, Mahadi, the Kulu valley, Peshawar and Hazara.^[2]

So we are pronouncing it wrong and now they are doing the same.

 

Thanks for the info. But I don't think the muslims would have stuck to any Sikh traditions concerning names of places. They never have in the past .

[BhagatSingh]

5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Thanks for the info. But I don't think the muslims would have stuck to any Sikh traditions concerning names of places. They never have in the past .

The name of the place was originally Qazi Maji and began to be commonly pronounced as Qadian after Sikhs.

So apparently they are sticking to it.

5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Ok. ਸਿਮਰਨ is also pronounced as Sim-ran ਸਿਮ ਰਨ rather than si-maran ਸਿ ਮਰਨ ||

Commonly, it is pronounced both ways.

The original word is smaran.

So ਸਿਮਰਨ can be pronounced as simaran.

[chatanga1]

On 20/03/2018 at 10:58 PM, BhagatSingh said:

The name of the place was originally Qazi Maji and began to be commonly pronounced as Qadian after Sikhs.

So apparently they are sticking to it.

Could be but I dont think they are sticking to it. I think they already have the variation of the word in old arabic. Look at this this line from "1001 Arabian Nights" . (towards the end of the first paragraph.)

 

[BhagatSingh]

6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Could be but I dont think they are sticking to it. I think they already have the variation of the word in old arabic. Look at this this line from "1001! Arabian Nights. (towards the end of the first paragraph.)

Wow good find!

Thanks for taking the time to share that.

Seems like you are right.

I looked at the alphabet (6:30), and compared it to the spelling of Qazi on wikipedia, even the entry is called Qadi, and the letter is

قاضي

ض

is Dadh

He says the letter doesn't exist in other languages but I would argue it's the letter Dhadha from Punjabi

 

[paapiman]

On 3/17/2018 at 9:29 PM, BhagatSingh said:

That's simply not true.

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥

ਭੁਖ has an addak. Bhukhkh, with a stress on the Kh. Not simply Bhukh.

The stress is on ਭੁ, not on ਖ.

It is pronounced as ਭੁੱਖ.

 

On 3/17/2018 at 9:29 PM, BhagatSingh said:

ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as Banha, which means to tie, not banna which is a ledge.

ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as ਬੰਨਾ੍. The halant is pronounced to differentiate between the two words (ledge and tie).

 

On 3/17/2018 at 9:29 PM, BhagatSingh said:

ਮਸਕਤ is pronounced as Mushakkat. Not maskat.

Sassa here is pronounced as Sha with an addak.

If it is pronounced as ਮਸਕਤ (with sassa with adhak), will the meaning of the word change?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

The stress is on ਭੁ, not on ਖ.

It is pronounced as ਭੁੱਖ.

That's what I meant.

 

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as ਬੰਨਾ੍. The halant is pronounced to differentiate between the two words (ledge and tie).

No it's not a halant it's a Hahha.

Banha  ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ comes from Bandha ਬੰਧਾਂ, meaning to Tie.  So ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as Banha ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ  (to tie) and not as Banna ਬੰਨਾ(ledge)

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

If it is pronounced as ਮਸਕਤ (with sassa with adhak), will the meaning of the word change?

I am not familiar with whatever language that word comes from so I can't say.

 

But my point with Bhukh, Banha and Mushakat is to show that many words are not pronounced exactly like what you see written down.

Guru Grantth Sahib was written at a time when the common people didn't read or write and speaking orally was the dominant way to communicate by far.

So the written language being subordinate was only there to remind people how to pronounce the actual word, which would have been known beforehand.

Nowdays we - me included - have been reading Gurbani letter for letter based on how it was written, with no understanding of how it was spoken.

This leads to incorrect pronunciation of Gurbani.

On top of that we are told not to say Sihari and Aunkar, for no apparent reason.

So our pronunciation of Gurbani is quite distorted and with some small tweaks, it can be improved greatly.

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

No it's not a halant it's a Hahha.

Banha  ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ comes from Bandha ਬੰਧਾਂ, meaning to Tie.  So ਬੰਨਾ is pronounced as Banha ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ  (to tie) and not as Banna ਬੰਨਾ(ledge)

Isn't  ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾ and  ਬੰਨਾ੍ pronounced the same way?

Why did you add a bindi (ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ)? There is no bindi on this word.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

I am not familiar with whatever language that word comes from so I can't say.

So, why would you say that ਮਸਕਤ will be pronounced as ਮਸ਼ੱਕਤ and not as ਮਸੱਕਤ? 

Is this an Arabic word? It is used in Urdu for sure as ਮੁਸ਼ੱਕਤ.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

Isn't  ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾ and  ਬੰਨਾ੍ pronounced the same way?

No because-

1. ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ has a hahha sound, which comes from the original - ਬੰਧਾਂ

2. ਬੰਨਾ੍  has been written incorrectly.

Halant is used where there is no matra, so that the reader does not confuse the | , full stop, with the 'A' matra, which is also written as |. In larhivaar format, where all words are connected, halant is used to indicate a difference between | as full stop and | as A.

So ਬੰਨਾ੍ is not correct grammatically.

Nanna can't have a halant and a kanna at the same time.

 

For example this line from my Yog Sutra translation thread-

विपर्ययो मिथ्याज्ञानमतद्रूप प्रतिष्ठम् ॥८॥
ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯੋ ਮਿਥਯਾਙਾਨਮਤਦ੍ਰੂਪ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਠਮ੍ [[੮]]
[[8]] (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯੋ) Intellect is that (ਮਿਥਯਾ) mythical/idealized (ਙਾਨ) knowledge (ਤਦ੍ਰੂਪ) of various forms  (ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਠਮ੍) that is eminent.

Notice the last word has a halant and no other matra on Mamma.

 

If you read other lines, when the last letter has a matra, they do not have a halant.

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

Why did you add a bindi (ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ)? There is no bindi on this word.

Due to rules of grammar, there is a bindi already on it.

 

There is no bindi written on ਭੁਖਿਆ either but it is also pronounced with a Bindi on the ਆ.

There is no bindi written on ਪੁਰੀਆ either but it is also pronounced with a Bindi on the ਆ.

 

So the full sentence -

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ॥

Is pronounced as -

ਭੁਖਿਆਂ ਭੁੱਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਪੁਰੀਆਂ ਭਾਰ॥

 

In this one sentence, there are three different grammar rules that determine the three bindis -  ਭੁਖਿਆਂ , ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ , ਪੁਰੀਆਂ

 

Regarding ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ, it is being used as first-person action - "if I do it" - so grammatically it will have a bindi.

 

Modern punjabi example -

ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੱਮ ਕਰਾਂ, ਕਿ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੱਮ ਕਰੇਂਗਾ ?
If I do your work, will you do mine?

Notice how ਕਰਾਂ has a bindi.

It would not be ਕਰਾ

(and certainly not ਕਰਾ੍ )

 

So verbs in this first-person format have a bindi.

More examples -

ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਛੱਡਾਂ ...
If I let you go...

ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਸਿਖਾਵਾਂ ...
If I teach you...

 

Coming back to Jap ji Sahib -

ਜੇ ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਪੁਰੀਆਂ ਭਾਰ ...

ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਢਿੱਡ ਉੱਤੇ ਪੂੜੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਭਾਰ ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ  ...
If I tied a big load of fried bread on my waist...

 

So the first-person action verbs, whatever they are called, all have bindis.

ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ is one of those, so that is why ਬੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ has a bindi.

 

 

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

Is this an Arabic word? It is used in Urdu for sure as ਮੁਸ਼ੱਕਤ.

Yes Urdu might be it.

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

So, why would you say that ਮਸਕਤ will be pronounced as ਮਸ਼ੱਕਤ and not as ਮਸੱਕਤ?

We must know the words and how to pronounce them prior to reading Guru Granth Sahib.

In case of ਮਸਕਤ -

1. We know that in many words Sassa makes a Sha sound, even when it is not indicated (it never is).

2. We know that in many words Adhak is used, even when it is not indicated (it never is).

3. We know that the word is from another language, Urdu, and pronounced as ਮੁਸ਼ੱਕਤ.

So when we see ਮਸਕਤ , we pronounce it as ਮੁਸ਼ੱਕਤ.

[samurai2]

Bhagat- you have some big time ego issues.  

ppl on this site are just pumping you up as they love your art , which is very good but i prefer/appreciate Kanwar Dhillon's expression. 

One thing i do not get, if vishnu/bism etc is guiding you/talking to you/is your inner guru, how the hell did it take you so long to read gurbani when according to your mat the adi granth is all based on Hari/vishnu??

the sihari's etc is actually comical to me, just surprised other members haven't circled you,  lets call it Vaheguru's khed.  

[BhagatSingh]

5 hours ago, samurai2 said:

Bhagat- you have some big time ego issues.  

ppl on this site are just pumping you up as they love your art , which is very good but i prefer/appreciate Kanwar Dhillon's expression. 

One thing i do not get, if vishnu/bism etc is guiding you/talking to you/is your inner guru, how the hell did it take you so long to read gurbani when according to your mat the adi granth is all based on Hari/vishnu??

the sihari's etc is actually comical to me, just surprised other members haven't circled you,  lets call it Vaheguru's khed.  

I have an ego, haumai, which is why I have attached myself to Akal Purakh Sahib's feet.

While I am attached to his feet, I can easily drop the burden of the ego, and be a free-flowing vessel of Akal Purakh Sahib.

And that's the process whereby I create my paintings.

You don't have to like my work. It doesn't effect me.

I know what kind of things you say about me on the forums. You don't have to like me either. It doesn't effect me.

 

I don't think people on this site are pumping me up, I think they always speak their mind and always challenge me to do better.

They always disagree with me if they feel disagreement and they agree with me, where they feel agreement.

I appreciate them for that.

I think they are good people and I need their disagreements in order to improve myself and refine my views.

 

In Guru Granth Sahib, Akal Purakh Shaib is known as Hari and Ram.

The stories in Guru Granth Sahib are stories of Hari and Ram, meaning they are stories of Akal Purakh Sahib, and in those stories his name is Hari or Ram.

The saints whose bani appears in Guru Granth Sahib, always chanted "Hari" and "Ram". These are the two mantras that appear again and again in Gurbani.

This is not my belief, this is simply an observation.

I think it is self-evident to anyone who studies Guru Granth Sahib.

 

I've been reading Guru Granth Sahib my whole life. But my reading has improved in the recent years due to Akal Purakh Sahib's blessing.

Since we are told not to pronounce Siharis, I never pronounced them until a few years ago when I started to discover that they are important in the pronunciation of a word that ends in a sihari.

It took me some time after that to confirm that indeed, all siharis at the end of a word are pronounced.

And part of that confirmation process has been to talk to members here and take into account their views.

[samurai2]

"It took a few years but I have finally figured out how to read Guru Granth Sahib correctly"  who is "

 

Vishnu??  we sikhs are defo  hindu

[samurai2]

Defo agree... Guru granth sahib is actually telling us how to meditate on hari/har (vishnu)...

 

[BhagatSingh]

1 hour ago, samurai2 said:

who is "
Vishnu?? 

Vishnu is name of that essence which pervades the cosmos.

1 hour ago, samurai2 said:

we sikhs are defo  hindu

As geographical identity yes, but not as a religious identity.

[samurai2]

20 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Vishnu is name of that essence which pervades the cosmos.

As is allah mahakall shiva smelly socks etc...

20 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

As geographical identity yes, but not as a religious identity

you are going to have to expand on this.. geographic meaning in areas where sikhi arose was predominantly hindu ( hindu as in lay terms)....more the vaishnav way of thought?... 

religion is a more structured way of practice?? the do's and don'ts?? this being the distinct identity?..

im just trying to understand your vague answer. that's the serious comment next will be deleted.

@sarabatam you will be w*nking over this comment.. no swear words and will get your fav members to express their sh*t

forgive me for my mistakes and take my paap on your heads.. pls do this ardas

[BhagatSingh]

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

As is allah mahakall shiva smelly socks etc...

Allah, Mahakal, Shiva, yes.

Smelly socks... no but if that's what you meditate on then more power to you.

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

geographic meaning in areas where sikhi arose was predominantly hindu

Hindu refers to any native living south of the Sindh river. That is what I mean by geographical identity.

Just like Turk can mean geographical identity or religious identity.

E.g. A Sikh who is a native of Turkey, is a Turk but not a Muslim.

Does that make sense?

[samurai2]

15 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Allah, Mahakal, Shiva, yes.

Smelly socks... no but if that's what you meditate on then more power to you.

Thanks, its like a nickname of the all pr-evading energy..just like vishnu siva etc

15 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Hindu refers to any native living south of the Sindh river. That is what I mean by geographical identity.

Just like Turk can mean geographical identity or religious identity.

E.g. A Sikh who is a native of Turkey, is a Turk but not a Muslim.

ok so now hindu is a country. with you.

15 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Does that make sense?

irrelevant, its more of an understanding of where one is coming from ie you. 

Again, need to understand your question.. if it is an analogy and hindu is a country then answer is yes. 

On 30/03/2018 at 12:28 AM, samurai2 said:

One thing i do not get, if vishnu/bism etc is guiding you/talking to you/is your inner guru, how the hell did it take you so long to read gurbani when according to your mat the adi granth is all based on Hari/vishnu??

That's the question.. still awaiting 

 

On 30/03/2018 at 5:35 AM, BhagatSingh said:

I've been reading Guru Granth Sahib my whole life. But my reading has improved in the recent years due to Akal Purakh Sahib's blessing.

Since we are told not to pronounce Siharis, I never pronounced them until a few years ago when I started to discover that they are important in the pronunciation of a word that ends in a sihari.

It took me some time after that to confirm that indeed, all siharis at the end of a word are pronounced.

And part of that confirmation process has been to talk to members here and take into account their views.

Again to reiterate, for one who claims he is blessed by the guidance of "Hari" and speaks/acts/studies accordingly and he is your "guru" i really have to question the above statement. 

I dont mind playing ignorance as long as you can answer questions not dodge them. 

 

[BhagatSingh]

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

I dont mind playing ignorance as long as you can answer questions not dodge them.

I answered all of your questions above.

If you have any more or if you want more clarification, you can message me or start a new topic.

Let's get back to the topic of this thread.

[paapiman]

On 3/11/2018 at 2:24 PM, chatanga1 said:

In Arabic there are 4 ways to pronounce "z", even though in Persian there is only 1. It may be that a different pronunciation of the arabic "z" resulted in it becoming a "d" but that is exactly what it is.  

The Arabic word "Hadrat" or "Hadhrat" is pronounced as "Hazrat" in Urdu/Persian.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 minutes ago, paapiman said:

The Arabic word "Hadrat" or "Hadhrat" is pronounced as "Hazrat" in Urdu/Persian.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Same with "Wudu" and "Wuzu".

 

Bhul chuk maaf