chatanga1 Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Please read Gurmukhi version and discuss. Edited March 17, 2018 by amardeep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2018 Chitar Singh then said to the Minister "I have done everything wrong" These words that you have spoken to me, are like nectar being poured into my ears (1) Dohra Collect your mind, thoughts and words, this is my order to you Relate all the characters of women to me (2) The Ministers speaks: "There was a King who was blind in one eye who had a wife who committed low actions who would enjoy her lover after putting dust in the King's eye. " (3) will add more later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Chaupai When the month of Phagun arrived The joy of men and women increased In every house there was rejoicing Songs were sung amidst clapping (4) Silly me, I chopped of the first line of verse 5 but it reads as : Chachar Mati was the womans name The Creator had created her extremely beautiful Mani Sen was the name of the Raja Chachar Mati was his young beautiful wife (5) more to come... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Is this not the first time we hear reaction from the king to the stories that he is being told 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 The Indian concept of man, Bach, karam (from thought to speech to action) is given in a different order. It says man, karma, Bach. From thought to action to speech. Does this error of speech on the Kings part indicate that the king is the kind of person who goes straight from initial thought to action. An indicator that he rushes things, he doesn’t speak to people before executing a task. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 On seeing a handsome performer ( Nat means performer, it can also mean actor, or acrobat etc) Her body was overcome with love Her mind, actions and speech were captivated Recognise it as if she had been purchased as a slave (6) Dohra In each and every house there was frolicking, in each and every house there songs were being sung In each and every house the drums were playing a rhythm, in each and every house there was dancing and music (7) There, there was a main (head) performer, who was the leader of the performers He was the King at revealing hidden love and bringing out love in new colours ( I think this means he was good at making people falling in love through his act) (8) In the area there was great frolicking and all the men and women were singing Blossoming flowers shone in hands and the wise embraced the wise (I'm struggling to work that last bit out "and the wise embraced the wise") (9) Dohra IN each and every house there was frolicking and singing, and in each and every house the drum was beating In every house there was melodious singing and in each and every house there were instruments playing (10) In each and every house women were singing wonderful songs There were flutes "murj" and drums and all types of instruments playing (11) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2018 There were crowds of men and women playing this handsome game Wherever one looks there is Kesri colour (13) In each and every house there is frolicking and songs are sung with laughter In each and every house the drums are playing rhythmically and in each and every house there is dancing and singing (14) On seeing the Princes form (head performer) she was completely overcome The Queen was instantly overcome with love (15) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 The month of Phagun brought immense joy to men and women The mist of red (or crimson) colour meant that men could no longer be seen (16) meaning that there air was thick with red powder The act of drums beating went on and on and the women strutted around like peacocks Enjoyment fell like little drops of rain and the beat of the drums went as such (17) Chaupai The red powder had created a blindness Vision did not go beyond one's hand The Queen threw a handful of powder in her rich husbands's eye Recognise that she blinded the King (18) Dohra One eye was already blind and the other one had dust thrown in it The King fell to the ground helpless like a prisoner (19) Will finish it off tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 The Queen called the colourful head jester (thats the word I couldnt think of these past few days) immediately to her presence She held him closely to her chest and kissed him passionately (20) When the King removed the powder from his eyes and began to look around The Queen had by that time enjoyed her encounter with the jester and bade him leave (21) The end of this Charitar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 Ok, to take some of the essence of this story. This is the first story where the King has realised that he was hasty in his decision and as many days have gone past, his heart has softened towards his son, from the stories told by the Minister. But he still asks for more stories. I think here the King is still looking for more persuasion though so he asks the Minister to now reveal everything he, the Minister knows. I also feel that at this point the King is enjoying learning about the different characters and stories being told. It's an eye-opener for him, as he was on the verge on executing his own son. So I'm getting the feeling the King is relieved at this point. This story also points out that the son was recalled from jail to the King's presence as he had been. The story itself tells how easy it is, in any situation for someone to seek some kind of pleasure apart from their spouse. It also doesn't have to happen in times of sadness as well. That really stands out in this story. Everyone was happy, even the King and Queen, but when she saw the handsome jester, she was captivated by his presence. So even in the times of happiness and festivities these things can happen. This is an important feature of this story. The other thing that reoccured in this charitar was the King only having one eye. This "one-eye" has been used before but this time the King has one eye. In the other charitar the one eye was covered by a kiss, but in this charitar the one eye was blinded temporarily by powder, thrown on the pretext of festivity. By the time the King has regained his sight the deed had been done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 He says in the beginning that he understands now and regrets his actions. I wonder in the next charitars if they show any further indications of him being wrong and what he might do instead. There are still more than 370 charitars to go so something else must happen in the frame story since the CP doesn’t stop and end here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Read the next one. There is a theme again beginning to run through these latest ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 1:21 PM, chatanga1 said: Chitar Singh then said to the Minister "I have done everything wrong" These words that you have spoken to me, are like nectar being poured into my ears (1) Niddar mentions in his translation that the king has realized that his son is innocent and decides to release his son at this point. Let's look at those verses again. The second verse has to be analyzed very deeply. ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੌ ਕਹੀ ॥ Chitar Singh said to the minister ਹਮ ਤੇ ਸਕਲ ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਰਹੀ ॥ There Raja Chiter Singh to the Minister, ‘Whatever you said, it has eliminated any treachery from my mind. (Bindra) Chitar Singh then said to the Minister "I have done everything wrong" (Yours) I am free of all my evil deeds (Niddar) Because of you, I have avoided the evil deeds (of sentencing and killing my son)* ਤੁਮ ਜੋ ਹਮ ਸੌ ਬਚਨ ਉਚਾਰੇ ॥ (same translation as yours above) ਜਾਨੁਕ ਸੁਧਾ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਭਰਿ ਡਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ * - IMHO Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 11:32 AM, amardeep said: The Indian concept of man, Bach, karam (from thought to speech to action) is given in a different order. It says man, karma, Bach. From thought to action to speech. Does this error of speech on the Kings part indicate that the king is the kind of person who goes straight from initial thought to action. An indicator that he rushes things, he doesn’t speak to people before executing a task. That's a great observation. There are two possibilities now: First one as you said. An unintended message coming out of the king's mouth, indicating his nature in general. Second, it is possible that the order has been changed to conform with grammar/poetry rules (Kaab Nijam). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 1:21 PM, chatanga1 said: The Ministers speaks: "There was a King who was blind in one eye who had a wife who committed low actions who would enjoy her lover after putting dust in the King's eye. " (3) ਰਮੀ ਜਾਰ ਸੌ ਰਾਇ ਕੀ ਆਖ ਅੰਬੀਰਹ ਡਾਰਿ ॥੩॥ The word "ਅੰਬੀਰਹ" means a colored powder. According to Niddar, it is a scented powder made by mixing musk, rose water, saffron and sandalwood. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 3:48 PM, chatanga1 said: Chachar Mati was the womans name The Creator had created her extremely beautiful Mani Sen was the name of the Raja Chachar Mati was his young beautiful wife (5) Chachar Mati means "joyous singing intellect:. Mani Sen means "a proud army". Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 11:32 AM, amardeep said: The Indian concept of man, Bach, karam (from thought to speech to action) is given in a different order. It says man, karma, Bach. From thought to action to speech. Does this error of speech on the Kings part indicate that the king is the kind of person who goes straight from initial thought to action. An indicator that he rushes things, he doesn’t speak to people before executing a task. These three words are used again later in the Charitar. ਮਨ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਬਚ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਬਸਿ ਭਈ ॥ Again, it is possible that Maharaaj is trying to teach us to think (or discuss) an issue, before jumping to enact it. One characteristic of intellectually/spiritually weak people would be to act instantly on their impulses. This is the case with Chachar Mati in this Charitar, after she sees the handsome acrobat. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) When I did the summary before I noticed that the notion of covering the one eye has already been used in an earlier charitar. Here we concluded that it means, his eyes of equality and justice was being covered. Also in terms of Man Karam Bach - the notion of rash decisions has already been mentioned and criticised in earlier charitars and also in the Zafarnama Edited April 17, 2018 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, amardeep said: When I did the summary before I noticed that the notion of covering the one eye has already been used in an earlier charitar. Here we concluded that it means, his eyes of equality and justice was being covered. Mahanand from Charitar#4 was also one-eyed. It is also possible that Maharaaj is giving updesh to handicap (physically or mentally) people (who are in powerful positions) that they must be extra careful in order to avoid deception. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/26/2018 at 1:04 PM, chatanga1 said: There were crowds of men and women playing this handsome game Wherever one looks there is Kesri colour (13) In each and every house there is frolicking and songs are sung with laughter In each and every house the drums are playing rhythmically and in each and every house there is dancing and singing (14) On seeing the Princes form (head performer) she was completely overcome The Queen was instantly overcome with love (15) You missed no.12 bro. ਨਰ ਨਾਰਿਨ ਮਿਲ ਖੇਲ ਰਚਾਯੋ ॥ Men and women together played ਫੂਲ ਪਾਨ ਕੈਫਾਨ ਮੰਗਾਯੋ ॥ They brought opium, betel leaves and alcohol ਦੁਹੂੰ ਓਰ ਨਵਲਾਸਿਨ ਮਾਰੈ ॥ Both the young ones (males and females) are throwing colors at each other ਮਧੁਰ ਮਧੁਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਗੀਤ ਉਚਾਰੈ ॥੧੨॥ They sing in melodious voices. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 4:30 PM, chatanga1 said: Chaupai The red powder had created a blindness Vision did not go beyond one's hand The Queen threw a handful of powder in her rich husbands's eye Recognise that she blinded the King (18) From a warrior's perspective, it is possible that Maharaaj is giving a tip to his warriors on assassination attempts on tyrants. Choosing a day like Holi (or any other festival), where the visibility could be an issue would be a great day to kill a dusht and then escape by deception. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 10:58 PM, paapiman said: You missed no.12 bro. ਨਰ ਨਾਰਿਨ ਮਿਲ ਖੇਲ ਰਚਾਯੋ ॥ Men and women together played ਫੂਲ ਪਾਨ ਕੈਫਾਨ ਮੰਗਾਯੋ ॥ They brought opium, betel leaves and alcohol ਦੁਹੂੰ ਓਰ ਨਵਲਾਸਿਨ ਮਾਰੈ ॥ Both the young ones (males and females) are throwing colors at each other ਮਧੁਰ ਮਧੁਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਗੀਤ ਉਚਾਰੈ ॥੧੨॥ They sing in melodious voices. Bhul chuk maaf Thanks for adding that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 10:10 PM, paapiman said: ਰਮੀ ਜਾਰ ਸੌ ਰਾਇ ਕੀ ਆਖ ਅੰਬੀਰਹ ਡਾਰਿ ॥੩॥ The word "ਅੰਬੀਰਹ" means a colored powder. Yes the word can mean both dust and powder. Powder is the correct word for this line, I just couldn't think of it at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 One thing I noticed in the Charitar and thereon, is the absence of the son being produced from jail in the morning and then returned after. Has the son been freed at this point but the King is enjoying listening to and learning from the Charitars that he has asked to Minister to tell stories about all the charitars he knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/7/2018 at 4:46 PM, chatanga1 said: One thing I noticed in the Charitar and thereon, is the absence of the son being produced from jail in the morning and then returned after. Has the son been freed at this point but the King is enjoying listening to and learning from the Charitars that he has asked to Minister to tell stories about all the charitars he knows? How many Charitars have you checked for the absence? Thanks Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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