paapiman Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said: Then he said to me thus: become my women ਅਬ - then ਮੋ ਸੌ - to me ਐਸੇ ਕਹਤ - [he] said like this ਹੋਹਿ - become ਹਮਾਰੀ - my ਨਾਰਿ - women Excellent stuff. Your translation makes more sense. Then he said to me thus: become my woman or Then he said to me thus: you shall become my woman She is making it sound to the king that the Ahir is coercing her to marry him or be with him. She is doing it intentionally to enrage the king against the Ahir. Obviously she must be knowing in the back of her mind that the king can get the Ahir killed easily. bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said: There is a warning there about coercing or exploiting women I believe. Good point. If one is taking advantage of a woman, then she will likely have a deep desire in her mind to get rid of that person, once she encounters a stronger (physical/politically/financially) man . Maybe the Ahir should have asked her more questions before accepting her as a wife. Maybe this Charitar is teaching us to study a person's background before getting into a relationship with them, especially when you can see a clear motive for the relationship. One cannot just trust random people. For example, imagine you are an university student. A lady comes to you and says that please help me with my school work and I will be your girlfriend. Only an imbecile with immediately agree to it. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 @paapiman How comes you didn't post Bindra's translation for this one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 7/31/2018 at 5:54 AM, dalsingh101 said: @paapiman How comes you didn't post Bindra's translation for this one? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 7/30/2018 at 5:50 PM, dalsingh101 said: She knew she was very pretty Did you notice that there is no mention of her physical beauty in the Charitar? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 How did Nidar get this translation (in full)? Can anyone please help? Chaupai – On hearing those words, the hitherto reluctant buffalo herder rushed to rescue her. He pulled the woman out and on the pretext of getting her dry, he undressed her. There and then he greatly enjoyed her. He brought her home making her his wife. (12) Gurmukhi version: ਧਾਵਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਅਹੀਰ ਬਚ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਐਚਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਕਹ ਤੀਰ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੌ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਘਰ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ਘਰਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥੧੨॥ Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 On 8/2/2018 at 7:32 AM, paapiman said: How did Nidar get this translation (in full)? Can anyone please help? Chaupai – On hearing those words, the hitherto reluctant buffalo herder rushed to rescue her. He pulled the woman out and on the pretext of getting her dry, he undressed her. There and then he greatly enjoyed her. He brought her home making her his wife. (12) Gurmukhi version: ਧਾਵਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਅਹੀਰ ਬਚ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਐਚਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਕਹ ਤੀਰ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੌ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਘਰ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ਘਰਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥੧੨॥ Bhul chuk maaf You know it might be a good idea to try and translate this charitar in full. It's important because this is where we have a twist in the overarching narrative. And the sakhi does clearly relate to the main one because we have a king who kills and man based on what a women told him. Is this sakhi clearly saying to the king of the main story (not this charitar) that this is what you'll end up doing to your son if you are not careful? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 7/30/2018 at 9:15 PM, paapiman said: ਵਹੈ - that person ਹਮਾਰੋ - my ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧੧॥ - husband Whoever extracts me out of here, that person will be my husband. That is definitely a plausible translation. I had to research into the "ਨਾਹਿ " part but it is used for husband. On 7/30/2018 at 9:18 PM, paapiman said: The person belongs to the Ahir ethnic group. Why is he being refereed to as a Gujjar? Gujjar/Ahir both mean herdsmen/cowherds. I think they are both the same group but have different names according to region. On 7/31/2018 at 12:19 AM, paapiman said: Excellent stuff. Your translation makes more sense. Then he said to me thus: become my woman or Then he said to me thus: you shall become my woman She is making it sound to the king that the Ahir is coercing her to marry him or be with him. She is doing it intentionally to enrage the king against the Ahir. Obviously she must be knowing in the back of her mind that the king can get the Ahir killed easily. Great stuff. This is reflected in the main story about how the Queen puts all the blame on the Prince knowing that she can get him punished. Just as how the King was very enamoured with the Queen to beleive anything she said, up to the point of killing his own son, the King in this story was also equally unhesitant in giving the gujjar a very harsh punishment. On 8/2/2018 at 7:32 AM, paapiman said: How did Nidar get this translation (in full)? Can anyone please help? Chaupai – On hearing those words, the hitherto reluctant buffalo herder rushed to rescue her. He pulled the woman out and on the pretext of getting her dry, he undressed her. There and then he greatly enjoyed her. He brought her home making her his wife. (12) Gurmukhi version: ਧਾਵਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਅਹੀਰ ਬਚ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਐਚਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਕਹ ਤੀਰ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੌ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਘਰ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ਘਰਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਿਯੋ ॥੧੨॥ Bhul chuk maaf "ਐਚਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਕਹ ਤੀਰ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥" To me it seems that the line says "Saying this the woman's arrow found it's target." I've found on Search gurbani "ਐਚਿ" also seems to mean "pull" so another alternative could be " pulling (her bow) the womans words struck like arrows." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tva prasad Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 This charitar also shows how the Raja, overcome with lust and not questioning the woman, believed what she said to be true and harshly killed the milkman. Thus, failing to use his brain and failing to guard his dharam. The milkman neither asked for the woman's background nor any other personal information before taking her as his wife, which shows he too was blinded by lust which brought about his own death. In a wider sense this teaches us that if we are being lead by the five thieves we cause our own destruction. This story is very similar to the Raja's own story, as the Raja believed in what the Rani said without questioning her. He did not think about the character of his son and was ready to execute him for the sake of a woman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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