Sri Charitropakhyan Sahib jee Series - Charitar #40

[paapiman]

Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.

Please read the Chartiar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gurmukhi Version

https://www.searchgurbani.com/public/dasam-granth/page/1604

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

Shortened version of the above Charitar narrated by Sant Baba Kartar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale. This was posted earlier in another topic.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

28 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.

Please read the Chartiar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gurmukhi Version

https://www.searchgurbani.com/public/dasam-granth/page/1604

 

Bhul chuk maaf

We've got a lot of b1tches like that in the quom I tell you. lol!

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

We've got a lot of b1tches like that in the quom I tell you. lol!

Do you think that is a result of feminism? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Do you think that is a result of feminism? 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Well, use your brain. CP seems to show us that jumped up kuttian have been around way before feminism was ever a concept. Aren't you reading these chariters? 

 

Anyway. This chariter seems different from previous ones. No one is violently murdered. Instead it seems to highlight the characteristic of obstinacy and contrariness. I've met a few stubborn, angry apneean like this. lol

 

Also this story seems to be more realistic than most of the previous ones. Even the location isn't exotic. I wonder if this one is based on some real life incident in Panjab? 

[dalsingh101]

Notice the blatant use of 'reverse psychology' against the idiot women. 

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Well, use your brain. CP seems to show us that jumped up kuttian have been around way before feminism was ever a concept. Aren't you reading these chariters? 

But, now these types (like the one in this Charitar) have more freedom to express themselves without any repercussions and are possible more in numbers.

IMHO, these sexual flings (as mentioned in the Charitars) were not seen in abundance in olden times due to societal norms. People might have had sexual fantasies then, but fear factor played a huge role in deterring them from indulging in sexual activities (as mentioned in the Charitars).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

12 hours ago, paapiman said:

But, now these types (like the one in this Charitar) have more freedom to express themselves without any repercussions and are possible more in numbers.

IMHO, these sexual flings (as mentioned in the Charitars) were not seen in abundance in olden times due to societal norms. People might have had sexual fantasies then, but fear factor played a huge role in deterring them from indulging in sexual activities (as mentioned in the Charitars).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Where does it mention this in the chariters?

I'm not sure if what you are saying is true anyway. How comes there were still plenty of stories like Heer-Ranjha, Laila-Mujnu, Sassi-Punnu, Mirza-Sahibaan that were part of common culture (and still were until very recently). Underneath the romanticism of these folk-tales are essentially sexual encounters. 

Fear of her brothers didn't stop Sahibaan shagging Mirza. 

I think fear worked on some level but maybe not as much as you might think. I think one of the points the chariters are making is how powerful lust can be for humans (that it often over-rides fears). 

As supplementary evidence you should also read Prem Sumarag which also points at relationships going on. 

When you read Bhangu's Panth Prakash, he also mentions Brars seducing Singhnian when SInghs were compelled to stay in their territory during the conflict with Moghuls in the 1700s. 

Okay, so they might not have been as common as might be in say a diaspora community like in England (or even Panjab today from what I hear), but to think people weren't surreptitiously linking up in olden times is idealising the past in my opinion. If they weren't, why have a MASSIVE section of the DG about that very matter (amongst other things)?

[chatanga1]

From this Charitar, I noticed a resemblance with another charitar. It hsa to do with haughtiness of one character, and the way this haughtiness was harnessed by another to spell one's doom. Basically the charitar is telling us that haughtiness is a bad trait, and that common sense is important, even when dealing with people who you despise.

[dalsingh101]

I've always said that Bindra's work was pioneering, by which I meant that it was a first foray into making the contents of CP more widely accessible. And I was always aware that it would have weaknesses due to the pioneering nature of the work. I think this is becoming more and more apparent when we compare his work to the original text.  

@paapiman Do you think Nidar's translation is better? Personally, I'd want a very close translation to the vocabulary used in the original. 

We really need a Brij Bhasha to English/Panjabi dictionary

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

Do you think Nidar's translation is better? Personally, I'd want a very close translation to the vocabulary used in the original. 

We really need a Brij Bhasha to English/Panjabi dictionary

Daas would choose Nidar over Bindra.

From where can we buy a Brij dictionary?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Soulfinder]

8 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Daas would choose Nidar over Bindra.

From where can we buy a Brij dictionary?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Veer Ji i found a link for Brij dictionary

https://archive.org/details/BrajBhashaDictionary

 

[chatanga1]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:27 PM, Soulfinder said:

Veer Ji i found a link for Brij dictionary

https://archive.org/details/BrajBhashaDictionary

Only for those who can read HIndi. Out of interest is there anyone here who can?

 

Coming back to the Charitar. Look at the name of the woman. " ਦਿਲਜਾਨ " meaning the knower of hearts (also the knower of secrets). But the husband (or others) do not know why she is so aggressive. This aggression has some cause somewhere. This is also a way of the Minister telling the King to think about why your own wife was so aggressive in her actions and why you were aggressive in your own thought and action in sentencing your son to death. The Minister doesn't give any reason but hints to the King thatit is important to find out why someone would act in such a way.

[chatanga1]

Translation from Gyani Ishar Singh :

[Soulfinder]

29 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Only for those who can read HIndi. Out of interest is there anyone here who can?

 

Coming back to the Charitar. Look at the name of the woman. " ਦਿਲਜਾਨ " meaning the knower of hearts (also the knower of secrets). But the husband (or others) do not know why she is so aggressive. This aggression has some cause somewhere. This is also a way of the Minister telling the King to think about why your own wife was so aggressive in her actions and why you were aggressive in your own thought and action in sentencing your son to death. The Minister doesn't give any reason but hints to the King thatit is important to find out why someone would act in such a way.

Thanks veer ji for highlighting that i didn't know it was in Hindi the dictionary link.

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

Only for those who can read HIndi. Out of interest is there anyone here who can?

Gurparsaad, Daas can read, but not very fast.

Do you know, where can I get a hardcopy of the dictionary?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[chatanga1]

9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Gurparsaad, Daas can read, but not very fast.

Do you know, where can I get a hardcopy of the dictionary?

Its good that you can read some Hindi. The best bet really would be India or if you know any scholars from there, ask them. They could help you find one.

[paapiman]

On 5/18/2018 at 7:34 AM, dalsingh101 said:

If they weren't, why have a MASSIVE section of the DG about that very matter (amongst other things)?

These sexual encounters did take place in the past (often in hiding), but just because Maharaaj has talked about them in bulk, does not mean that they were common during those times.

Massive portion of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib also deals with Bir ras and Rudar ras, but Punjabis were deficient in them, not full of them. Maharaaj tried to infuse bravery in our ancestors by his writings.

Similarly, Maharaaj tried to make his Sikhs (many of them being spiritual, simple-minded, innocent, straight forward, etc, at that time) aware about these sexual flings which take in society. Most Sikhs of that time probably could never imagine that women could play such Charitars.

IMHO, these Charitars are more relevant in today's age (with pornography, feminism, same sex marriages, bisexual relations, open marriages, etc) than they were, say a 100 years ago, especially to a common man.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

Quote

Similarly, Maharaaj tried to make his Sikhs (many of them being spiritual, simple-minded, innocent, straight forward, etc, at that time) aware about these sexual flings which take in society. Most Sikhs of that time probably could never imagine that women could play such Charitars.

I agree with your idea of Guru ji making efforts to deal with deficiencies in the panth, which play a big part in influencing what was included in the DG. 

But let me know if I've got you straight: Are you suggesting that a lot of gullible, naive apnay males (and females) of that time, were being made fools of by chariters, and so the issue was addressed with CP? Because that is exactly what I am saying. 

Now, doesn't it stand to reason (or logic) that a serious problem must of existed for so much effort to be expended into trying increase apna communities awareness of these matters?

So although I understand your point about things maybe being worse today in this respect due to liberalisation and an acceptance of promiscuity, that doesn't mean these things weren't rampant then.