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Sri Charitropakhyan Sahib jee Series - Charitar #43


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An amendment from me :

ਏਕ ਗੁਲਾਮ ਖਰੀਦ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਸਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਹਿ ਆਨਿ ॥੧॥

A slave was bought and kept in the house.

The word for kept (IMO) is ਰਾਖਸਿ whereas "devil" or "demon" would be spelt " ਰਾਕਸ਼ਸ਼ "

 

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The line 24 in Nara's translation gives a very different meaning to Bindra's.

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19 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

An amendment from me :

ਏਕ ਗੁਲਾਮ ਖਰੀਦ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਸਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਹਿ ਆਨਿ ॥੧॥

A slave was bought and kept in the house.

The word for kept (IMO) is ਰਾਖਸਿ whereas "devil" or "demon" would be spelt " ਰਾਕਸ਼ਸ਼ "

I found this from the srigranth dictionary:

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary
ਰਖਦੀ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਜਨਨੀ ਚੀਤਿ ਨ ਰਾਖਸਿ ਤੇਤੇ॥ {ਆਸਾ ਕਬ, ੧੨, ੧:੨ (478)}।

 

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary
[P. n.] Demon 
SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
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ਸੁਨਿ ਰਾਕਸ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਕੋ ਦੇਵੀ ਉੱਤਰ ਦੀਨ ॥

Hearing the words of the demon, the goddess replied thus:,

 

ਰਾਕਸ ਆਏ ਰੋਹਲੇ ਤਰਵਾਰੀ ਬਖਤਰ ਸਜੇ ॥

The demons came in great rage, decorated with swords and armour.

and also another form of writing the same word:

 

ਓਹੀ ਸੀਹੁ ਮੰਗਾਇਆ ਰਾਖਸ ਭੱਖਣਾ ॥

She sent for that lion, who was she devourer of demons.

 

ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਭੇ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ਰਾਖਸ ਖੜਗ ਲੈ ॥੧੫॥

Durga, holding her sword, killed all the demons.15.

 

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

 

I guess it can be spelt both ways although the first alternative has many occurences in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib whereas the 2nd alternative only has 5.

 

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19 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

ਤਾ ਸੌ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਲਾਮ ਸੁਨਾਏ ॥

ਇਹ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਤਿ ਕੇ ਦਸ ਖਾਏ ॥੨॥

 

What other meanings do you get from this? I'm struggling to see the word testicles in these lines.

Maybe "ਦਸ ਖਾਏ" is an expression.

The below is the translation by Niddar.

“Nibble you husband’s genitalia – to arouse him perform oral sex upon him as part of sexual foreplay.” (2)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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This Charitar illustrates how dangerous a Chugalkhor/Nindak can be. Once identified, one must be very careful with such a person.

On the other hand, one cannot completely blame the slave for it. Slaves were treated very baldly in olden times. He wanted his freedom, so he played this Charitar.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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This Charitar can also be related to the base tale. 

Chittar Mati may represent the slave. We already know that she was forced to marry Chittar Singh, alluding to a life a bit similar to that of a slave. Now, in order to attain her freedom or exact revenge, she deceives two parties (like in this tale). The two parties being, Hanuwant Singh (false allegation on him) and Chittar Singh (trying to make him kill his own son).

The wise minister might be trying to tell Chittar Singh that the way the slave manipulated the Pathan to kill his own innocent wife, the same way Chittar Mati is making you kill your own innocent son. After you kill your innocent son (by giving him death sentence), you will regret, as the Pathan did (please see the verse below) and eventually end up destroying your own kingdom..

ਬਹੁਰੋ ਨਾਸ ਆਪਨੋ ਕਿਯੋ ॥੮॥

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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Why do you think the "testicles/genitalia" were used here? Personally I think the focus is on a sensitive part of the body, one that is kept hidden away, to which very few have access. The Pathan as any man would, is fearful of losing his testicles.

The second thing here is, that the man and woman have only just married, so they do not know each other yet. They have not yet consummated the marriage. The third thing I noticed was that the womans name was " ਆਛੋ ਬੀਬੀ ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ ਨਾਰਿ ਪਛਾਨਿਯੈ ॥ " This doesn't sound like a muslim name. So coyuld it be that the man had married a woman who was not of his standing? Like the King had married a very young woman whilst he himself was old?

The ending, I feel the same about what Paapiman has written. One party has manipulated the other party's FEAR and they have reacted without thinking.

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11 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

" ਆਛੋ ਬੀਬੀ ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ ਨਾਰਿ ਪਛਾਨਿਯੈ ॥ " This doesn't sound like a muslim name.

The word "Bibi" is from Arabic language, and is used as a honorific title for Muslim women. So, IMHO, the word prefix "Bibi" would indicate a Muslim woman in those times.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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2 hours ago, paapiman said:

What do you mean?

 

Why not neck or another body part?

 

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

The word "Bibi" is from Arabic language, and is used as a honorific title for Muslim women.

Sure, I was thinking more of ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ

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13 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Why not neck or another body part?

All three (Bindra, Gyani Ishar and Niddar) have mentioned testicles in their translations.

I am not sure what the words ਖਾਇਨ and ਦਸ mean in this context. There are probably referring to testicles.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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16 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

They have not yet consummated the marriage.

There are other possible interpretations here. It is possible that Mirza Khan was not sexually satisfied with her wife or maybe they did have sex before, but he just did not love her.

ਅਬ ਲੌ ਰਤਿ ਤਾ ਸੌ ਨਹਿ ਕਰੀ ॥

The Pathan married a woman, slept with her but did not love her.,

According to Nidar, 

In time the Pathan married a woman, but for some reason he did not enjoy her.

Now, it is possible that the slave figured out that Mirza Khan does not love Sankhya. So, he decides to deceive both the parties. He tells Sankhya to go and suck on her husband's testicles. She might have thought, that's a good idea to follow and it might improve my relationship (including sexual) with my husband.

Bhindra's translation might be wrong for the verse below:

ਇਹ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਤਿ ਕੇ ਦਸ ਖਾਏ 

The slave told her that her husband’s testicles are worthy of chewing

Sankhya is a woman, not a child. Yes, she is innocent, but she would know not to chew a body part. Sucking makes more sense. After hearing the slave's advice, she might have thought that this sexual act might please my husband.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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Maybe Maharaaj is trying to make his Sikhs aware of oral sex via this Charitar. We have to keep in mind the times in which this Gurbani is recited. Sex education wasn't really that common among ordinary people at that time. One of the later Charitars will also deal with bestiality.

I highly doubt that Spiritual Sikhs of that time knew these things (oral sex, bestiality, etc).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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10 hours ago, paapiman said:

There are other possible interpretations here. It is possible that Mirza Khan was not sexually satisfied with her wife or maybe they did have sex before, but he just did not love her.

ਅਬ ਲੌ ਰਤਿ ਤਾ ਸੌ ਨਹਿ ਕਰੀ ॥

The Pathan married a woman, slept with her but did not love her.,

That doesn't make sense to me.

ਅਬ ਲੌ Upto now

ਰਤਿ ਤਾ intimacy

ਸੌ with her

ਨਹਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ hadn't happened

 

10 hours ago, paapiman said:

Maybe Maharaaj is trying to make his Sikhs aware of oral sex via this Charitar.

No way. That just seems way out of line to me.

 

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

ਇਹ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਤਿ ਕੇ ਦਸ ਖਾਏ 

The slave told her that her husband’s testicles are worthy of chewing

Wouldn't she have already known that if they had consummated the marriage?

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The more I think of the feature of testicles in this story, I think it has to do with the importance of them to a man. They are his life and wellbeing. From them will sprout further generations. So they are to be protected. I feel that this is also something to connect with A king. That his lineage should continue and he would hope to sire a son to carry on the throne/rule.

I think the threat here to the testicles represents in a way (not at all overtly) a threat to the rule of the King, and the ending is also important as well. The Pathan killed the woman and then killed himself. Why did he need to kill himself?

But the main feature of the story revolves around the chugli done by the slave. That is the lesson to be learnt here. Why couldn't the pathan just ask his own wife?

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18 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

ਅਬ ਲੌ Upto now

ਰਤਿ ਤਾ intimacy

ਸੌ with her

ਨਹਿ ਕਰੀ ॥ hadn't happened

Your interpretation is right as ਰਤਿ means ਮੈਥੁਨ (sex), but it also means love. This word can be used in a non-sexual way too.

So, one could also interpret the above as:

Up until now, love had not developed with her.

You don't necessarily need to have love for someone, before having sex with her.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

No way. That just seems way out of line to me.

Why is that? Awareness is very important for wise and intellectual people. Sri Satguru jee definitely wanted his Sikhs to be well-educated in all aspects of life.

 

17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Wouldn't she have already known that if they had consummated the marriage?

Known what? That she can suck on her husband's testicles?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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18 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Why couldn't the pathan just ask his own wife?

That is why people have to be careful from chuglakhors. If you think, someone has this bad habit of doing chugli, one must always try to verify his information before assuming it to be true.

Maybe the wise minister is trying to encourage Chittar Singh to further interrogate Chitar Mati (or get her interrogated by someone else), rather than just blindly believing in her side of the story, which the Pathan did, with the slave's information in this tale. If the Pathan had further investigated this matter (by having a conversation with his wife), he would have figured out that the slave has passed on the idea of "sucking testicles".

 

bhul chuk maaf

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18 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Why couldn't the pathan just ask his own wife?

Another possible perspective could be that the two (Pathan and his wife) were not on talking terms, which takes us back to the interpretation of the verse, ਅਬ ਲੌ ਰਤਿ ਤਾ ਸੌ ਨਹਿ ਕਰੀ ॥. Chuglakhors are very cunning and smart. They wait for an opportunity to pass misinformation about others. When two people are having a rough patch in their relationship, that is an ideal time for a chugalkhor to strike.

Maybe the wise minister, via the slave, is trying to point a finger at the Brahmin, who did not do his job of educating Hanuwant Singh. The slave was suppose to serve the Pathan and his wife faithfully. Similarly, the Brahmin turned out to be a dishonest employee and kept Hanuwant Singh illiterate (due to which he could not communicate his innocence effectively). The wise minister might be indirectly asking the King to interrogate the Brahmin and get to the bottom of this matter. 

 

Bhul chuk maaff

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On 5/29/2018 at 3:04 PM, paapiman said:

Why is that? Awareness is very important for wise and intellectual people. Sri Satguru jee definitely wanted his Sikhs to be well-educated in all aspects of life.

Do you really think this would extend to the activities you have mentioned?

 

On 5/29/2018 at 3:04 PM, paapiman said:

Known what? That she can suck on her husband's testicles?

No, if the marriage had been consumated then she would have known what her husbands testicles are like.

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2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Do you really think this would extend to the activities you have mentioned?

Why not? Knowing the basics of sexuality (and various forms of sex) should be fine (especially in this age). Going into unnecessary depth about these issues might not be needed for ordinary people.

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

No, if the marriage had been consumated then she would have known what her husbands testicles are like.

She might have know what the testicles look like, but might not have known that she can suck on them. We have to remember that these are olden times. Sex education is not widely prevalent among the masses. Maybe, even the Pathan was not aware of oral sex. That's why he freaked out, when he saw his wife going down on him. IMHO, the only type of sex which was common during those times was the regular vaginal sex.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:01 PM, paapiman said:

Why not? Knowing the basics of sexuality (and various forms of sex) should be fine (especially in this age).

Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth would not be the platform to teach this.

 

On 5/30/2018 at 10:01 PM, paapiman said:

She might have know what the testicles look like, but might not have known that she can suck on them.

But why would it take a slave to tell her she can sexually please her husband this way? The slave is not telling her anything for HER benefit but for HIS OWN benefit. That is the gist of the charitar.

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6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

But why would it take a slave to tell her she can sexually please her husband this way? The slave is not telling her anything for HER benefit but for HIS OWN benefit. That is the gist of the charitar.

Maybe the slave was aware of oral sex, while the Pathan and his wife were not. Once, you have knowledge about a concept, it is relatively easier for that person to use it as a tool to create a wedge between people.

So in this instance, he kept the Pathan in the dark about oral sex (and also misled him), but shared that knowledge with his wife. That created a misunderstanding among them resulting in an murder.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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