paapiman Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion. Please read the Chartiar: Gurmukhi version: https://www.searchgurbani.com/public/dasam-granth/page/1614 Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 Again, in this charitar, I see how a person getting into a difficult situation manouvered to avoid getting caught. The man underneath the bed is hearing or feeling some pushes on the bed, and asks the woman what it was. She replies that she was beating her husband with a shoe. This should also here bringing to the mans attention that beating someone with a shoe is a humiliating thing in Indian culture, and that if she can be like this with her husband what can she be like with any other man? Plus with him being a Qazi, an esteemed member of the upper Islamic society, he would have had a great deal of respect from people. He could in some respects be a King/ruler. See where I'm going with this? It says at the end, that the man was left scratching his head. I think here it is telling us that the man was left bewildered at what was going on and also the excuse that the woman gave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 This Chartiar could possibly be related to the base tale. Noorm Bibi was enjoying consensual sex with the Qazi, but she lied to the Jatt that she was assaulting the Qazi. Similatly in the base tale, Chitrmati desired to have consensual sex with her step son, but on his refusal, she falsely claimed that she was sexaully assaulted by Hanuwant Singh. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 Another interesting point is that Noorm Bibi has actually bound her lover (Jatt) and put him under the bed (see below). Later, she also makes a fool of him. ਮਿਤ੍ਰਹਿ ਬਾਧਿ ਖਾਟ ਤਰ ਲਯੋ ॥੩॥ Maybe the wise minister is giving a wake-up call to Chitar Singh. You have been bound by your love for Chitarmati, but in the end you will be made a fool by her trickery. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/14/2018 at 6:09 PM, chatanga1 said: This should also here bringing to the mans attention that beating someone with a shoe is a humiliating thing in Indian culture, and that if she can be like this with her husband what can she be like with any other man? This can produce two reactions in her lover (Jatt): Trust - The Jatt might think that she loves me so much that she can go to the extent of beating and humiliating her own husband in front of me. Now, in the future, the Jatt might be willing to go that extra mile for her. Fear - The Jatt might start fearing her in the future. He might think, if she can beat her own husband (who btw is a Qazi, a prominent judge in the area), she could possibly do worse things with me. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 It’s the same Theme as the previous: using goodness to cover deception. In the earlier charitar telling the truth was used to deceive a person. In this, reading the Koran and appearing holy is used to deceive the husband. Topic: doing something that is normally considered good as a way to hide deception 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Also conjecture: It says the woman does jantra mantra And hooks up with a jatt. There is thus use of “Hindu terminology” as Muslim jatts are often called chaudry rather than jatt. Also Muslims doesn’t do jantra mantra. Later she reads the Koran. Is it possible that she is a Hindu who recently became Muslim (by force?) and therefore have a mixed unstable practice - a foot in both worlds. The way she is unstable and caught inbetween her old and new world, so too is the rani of the frame story unstable and caught between loyalty to the old kingdom and her new kingdom. She to was forced to go from one world(kingdom) to the other. The wise minister is warning the king that he needs to be alert on her loyalty towards the king who killed her father and family. She is plotting something Edited June 19, 2018 by amardeep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, amardeep said: It’s the same Theme as the previous: using goodness to cover deception. In the earlier charitar telling the truth was used to deceive a person. In this, reading the Koran and appearing holy is used to deceive the husband. Topic: doing something that is normally considered good as a way to hide deception Other thing which is surprising to note is that she first appears to be religious (by reading Quran) and then charms him (Qazi) to have sex with her. It was kind of odd for a person to behave this way. A religious/spiritual person would find that weird. Imagine that person comes home, sees his wife doing Path and then she wants to have sex with him. Might make the person wonder what the hell happened? It is possible that Maharaaj is telling us that the Qazi, even though highly educated, has been made a fool by this woman. Maybe there is some other lesson to be learned from this part too. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 hours ago, amardeep said: There is thus use of “Hindu terminology” as Muslim jatts are often called chaudry rather than jatt. Also Muslims doesn’t do jantra mantra. Well, anyone can learn to do Jantar Mantar, but there must be some reason that Maharaaj has mentioned it in this tale. Your analysis might be right too. Nooram Bibi could be a recent convert. If she had a Hindu name, then your analysis would have been spot on. How many Charitars have mentioned expertise in jantar mantars? There is Charitar# 8 of Anuraag Mati (Hindu name). Do you (or anyone else) remember any others? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Many converts change names at conversion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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