Sleep during meditation

[Mooorakh]

Came across this video which talks about my problem in the end  but no solution... Please can anybody suggest something or post few videos and links to help me overcome this. It seems m stuck.

WJKKWJKF

[Sat1176]

If your doing simran slowly and elongated (with slow long breathing) then sehaj avasta will naturally come as mind stills. Personally I don't think it's a bad thing. Lets say your doing you jaap during the day and you have had a good nights sleep then this is a very good stage. If your lacking sleep then it can also be a natural body response. If once in sehaj there are no dreams and thought, then that is also very good. If your falling into dreams then not so good.

Ideally one need to start hearing anhad shabads in this sunn/sehaj state. This can take time to manifest. In one katha I heard you have to repeatedly keep pushing the mind into this state and eventually the mind begins to awaken within.

When in the stage of no thoughts whether conscious or unconscious two jahaj's take off from that place. One is that of anhad shabad, and the second is that of falling into dreams and into thoughts and visions. You want to take the jahaj that is naam and keep surti attached to that with no thoughts.

If you want to stay awake you will need to do jaap with determination, josh and more faster pace.

I took these notes from Gurmat Meditation youtube channel about how to go to sleep with simran and continue bhagti throughout the night. Maybe it will offer you some guidance.

1.Elongate waaaahe guuuuru jap and listen to dhun. This should help stop thoughts

2.Listen to sehaj dhun if you can hear dhun and fall asleep

3.You will enter deep sleep without dreams

4.Then after some time you will come back for a short moment. Maybe to change sides. Don’t open eyes. Repeat gurmantar with surti or listen to anhad shabad or start gurmantar again.

5.You will fall asleep again.

6.Then you will awake again.

7.Listen to anhad or simran

8.5 shabads will start

9.Anhad Toor (very loud) may come as combined sounds or like loud horn being blown

10.Put dhyan (listen) on Toor if possible after which Parkash may manifest

11.Put dhyan (look) on Parkash (Transparent glistening light - Nirankar)

 

[Sat1176]

@Mooorakh Listen from 12 minutes to what your experiencing.

 

[Lucky]

15 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

1.Elongate waaaahe guuuuru jap and listen to dhun. This should help stop thoughts

2.Listen to sehaj dhun if you can hear dhun and fall asleep

3.You will enter deep sleep without dreams

4.Then after some time you will come back for a short moment. Maybe to change sides. Don’t open eyes. Repeat gurmantar with surti or listen to anhad shabad or start gurmantar again.

5.You will fall asleep again.

6.Then you will awake again.

7.Listen to anhad or simran

8.5 shabads will start

9.Anhad Toor (very loud) may come as combined sounds or like loud horn being blown

10.Put dhyan (listen) on Toor if possible after which Parkash may manifest

11.Put dhyan (look) on Parkash (Transparent bright light - Nirankar)

Valuable tips.

Doing Simran and feeling tired is a good thing. There is a very fine line between drifting into sleep/dreamless sleep and sunn.   With practice, you will be able to recognize the difference. 

[Mooorakh]

Thank u.  Thank u @Sat1176and @Lucky veerji for ur feedback.  This is the first time u both have replied to me,  though I hv quoted u before and this time it was least expected..  Thank u

I am still a nascent 'nyaani bachi' in this marg not to any avastha as such praying  for Anhad shabad day n night these days.  Wasn't even enough aware of this 'mind game' till a few months ago..  It's not that I hv chosen to be called Moorakh for the heck of it..  I Am A total Moorakh, a Tubelight which (glows) months after something happens to me...  N m left with SORRYs only.   N looking for ways to find 2nd chance 

thanks again. M very happy to find this space

[Sat1176]

@Mooorakh Most questions have been discussed before although they may be buried deep in some of the longer threads. Take some time out to read through some of the posts in the meditation section. You will gain a lot of guidance from everyone's contribution. It will take time to build an understanding of the deep topics being discussed. We don't always know the answer to every question and hence keep quiet. If we can help then we will surely try and reply. Keep japping and let whatever happens happen. Your surrendering your mind and body to Waheguru. Once the surrender happens Waheguru takes over and you just got to go with the flow. The moment the mind tries to control and analyse the situation, or starts it's chitter chatter, it ends. Trust me on that one.

The problem I see is that there are sometimes opposing views and that creates a confusion on which way you should go. Take your example of falling asleep during simran. Bhai Ragbir Singh Bir says quite clearly he saw this stage as an obstacle which one must cross. You may have also heard of stories of Baba Nand Singh tying his hair to tree to avoid sleep, or meditating on the edge of a well so that he remains alert and aware. 

I was put in a predicament of what do I tell you. Do I confuse you further by offering you an alternative view and approach. I was listening to the posted video by Simranjeet Singh and he explained your question directly. It stood out at me and I thought of your very question and felt compelled to reply. I know this question also bothered me in the past. When you listen to Bhai Simranjeet Singh in the video, he will say this is what happens in the early stages and let it happen. Who do you now listen to? You must develop firm faith in one path and then go with that even though they may both get you to the same destination. I'm not sure if Bhai Ragbir Singh Bir is still alive or not, but if you choose his words, then you need to stick with what he says and then try and get your questions answered by him. On the other hand if what Simranjeet Singh sounds right to you then follow his path. If you use your resources, you can even find out about him and maybe get in touch with him so he can directly answer your questions. There is nothing more rewarding then having a 1 to 1 discussion with someone more advanced and seeking their guidance.

Even Lucky's post alludes to trying to remain aware which is difficult to explain. What I believe Lucky is trying to imply is that a stage comes when the mind rises above body consciousness and exists in some thoughtless, void like, silent state. Some can enter this stage directly, but some like me fall asleep and then enter this state. It is spontaneous and only happens with Waheguru's grace. You can't force it and it will happen when you least expect it. Mind in it's chatter must become small as a tiny piece of a mustard seed so it fits through a tiny hole so to speak to enter higher states. When this happens the mind awakens itself on the other side known as becoming "jagrath". Those steps I shared with you in the above post are a way to try and induce that state at night. Your body goes to sleep but mind tries to awaken, so you can spend the night in the higher states and doing bhagti whilst the body gets rest. Some will question and be sceptical of this form of night time bhagti, as it is not how it is normally preached. 

These are very advanced topics I'm sharing and I'm only just beginning to grasp the concepts myself let alone directly experience them.

Hope that helps you Ji and does not confuse you further. If you keep walking on the path and try and learn, these things will begin to make more sense. It is all difficult to understand when you first hear stuff like this.

[Lucky]

@moorakh, I totally second what Sat1176 has explained above.  Whether you should think of sleep as a hindrance or not, is difficult to justify.

According to my own experience, I reckon that some of us may assume we are falling asleep, but in fact, we are rising into deeper states.   I'm no expert on sleep, but i can give a few pointers for you to look into....

- If you drift off into dream state, then this is mostly Maya.  I'm referring to doing simran whilst sat up with back straight. Doing simran whilst lying down is something I could discuss in the future. For yourself, at this stage, i would pay attention to what happens exactly when you think you're falling asleep?

1) You're head may droop forward, but if you're back and posture is giving way, then a) you are probably going into dream state-maya or b) you're prana flow isn't strong enough. 

OR

2) if you are drifting and can maybe hear things in background, and not losing your asan, AND gurmantar is still going, ..then you are most likely going towards the dreamless void(eventually).  From what I remember, this stage was rather confusing because i was never sure if i were asleep or in deeper consciousness.  IMO, i'd say to continue going deeper into your simran if you are encountering this.   Just keep checking that your gurmantar was still going. The tricky part is that you'll only be able to confirm this once you are back and fully awake (disassociated).

 

This was the approach that i was using at the time, even though I wasn't sure, but It helped in progressing further.  I hope that gives you  better understanding. Really, you don't wanna overthink it too much either but just keep focus on gurmantar. If sleep comes, and you really feel inclined to get under the duvet, then do so. Otherwise, just continue and assess after the session.  Before hearing naam, you're mind will go through a number of intermediary stages. It's all about  'cleansing' the mann.   

 

In time,  you  will learn that there is much more to sleep and how a gurmukh remains jagath 'an-din' (day-night). I'm not going to say too much on those topics or how it's possible, because it will probably be confusing. 

 

 

[Mooorakh]

45 minutes ago, Lucky said:

@moorakh, I totally second what Sat1176 has explained above.  Whether you should think of sleep as a hindrance or not, is difficult to justify.

According to my own experience, I reckon that some of us may assume we are falling asleep, but in fact, we are rising into deeper states.   I'm no expert on sleep, but i can give a few pointers for you to look into....

- If you drift off into dream state, then this is mostly Maya.  I'm referring to doing simran whilst sat up with back straight. Doing simran whilst lying down is something I could discuss in the future. For yourself, at this stage, i would pay attention to what happens exactly when you think you're falling asleep?

1) You're head may droop forward, but if you're back and posture is giving way, then a) you are probably going into dream state-maya or b) you're prana flow isn't strong enough. 

OR

2) if you are drifting and can maybe hear things in background, and not losing your asan, AND gurmantar is still going, ..then you are most likely going towards the dreamless void(eventually).  From what I remember, this stage was rather confusing because i was never sure if i were asleep or in deeper consciousness.  IMO, i'd say to continue going deeper into your simran if you are encountering this.   Just keep checking that your gurmantar was still going. The tricky part is that you'll only be able to confirm this once you are back and fully awake (disassociated).

 

This was the approach that i was using at the time, even though I wasn't sure, but It helped in progressing further.  I hope that gives you  better understanding. Really, you don't wanna overthink it too much either but just keep focus on gurmantar. If sleep comes, and you really feel inclined to get under the duvet, then do so. Otherwise, just continue and assess after the session.  Before hearing naam, you're mind will go through a number of intermediary stages. It's all about  'cleansing' the mann.   

 

In time,  you  will learn that there is much more to sleep and how a gurmukh remains jagath 'an-din' (day-night). I'm not going to say too much on those topics or how it's possible, because it will probably be confusing. 

 

 

Pls forgive me but my mind is so full of this other thought at this time,  M planning to post in the other section that m not able to reply to this right now. 

But thank u so much for taking up my problem. N yes m more mooorakh than u both have tagged.  It has three Ooos

 

[Mooorakh]

11 hours ago, Lucky said:

rather confusing because i was never sure if i were asleep or in deeper consciousness.  IMO, i'd say to continue going deeper into your simran

Thanks again.  Ok so that's the tricky part here

1. That video above from Raghubir Singh ji says that u can leave Gurumantra wen u feel connected.  I do.  And then theres' silence for a short while n donno but either i drift off to sleep or just get up with a jerk that m wasting time sitting n doing nothing.  Now I will keep Gurumantra going...  

Also another little doubt (since I lost my sweetness of mouth becos of ignorance,  I think it's better to ask) in between Simran or  Nitnem at times I start vibrating,  I mean m not sure that if my body is vibrating too from outside but I feel that I am vibrating.  I open my eyes then and start again..  

[Mooorakh]

On 7/2/2015 at 3:49 AM, CdnSikhGirl said:

Whole body vibrations are normal... they also happen before out of body experiences. Same with loud noises.... usually described as rushing, pulsing, static sound, like electromagnetic interference or something.  I think both are you just becoming aware of what exists beyond this physical level.  Think of this reality as a radio station, and you are the antenna / receiver.  You are 'tuned' into this reality but when you start to raise your frequency (through simran etc) same as on a radio dial, you will encounter static between 'stations'.  That's the best way I can explain it.  

Thanks @CdnSikhGirl. Lamps u lit here years ago are still providing light to the travelers..  Pls reply if u read this as u seem not active here anymore. 

[Guest Super-Snorer]

On 2/26/2019 at 11:28 PM, Sat1176 said:

@Mooorakh Listen from 12 minutes to what your experiencing.

 

I don't only sleep but also snore like no one's business and wake everyone up.  I wonder if this is normal at all.

[Mooorakh]

On 6/29/2019 at 12:42 AM, Guest Super-Snorer said:

I don't only sleep but also snore like no one's business and wake everyone up.  I wonder if this is normal at all.

Well veerji snoring means blocked channels.  This may reflect bad health, pls read about saas saas simran- Pranayam on this forum and get to work ASAP.

 

P.s. My husband used to snore too and never indulge in healthy lifestyle even after constant nagging from me but since we have come back from Hemkund Sahib ( it's been 5-6 weeks))  he hasn't snored

[Mooorakh]

On 2/27/2019 at 8:09 AM, Lucky said:

Valuable tips.

Doing Simran and feeling tired is a good thing. There is a very fine line between drifting into sleep/dreamless sleep and sunn.   With practice, you will be able to recognize the difference. 

 

On 2/27/2019 at 12:06 AM, Lucky said:

@moorakh, I totally second what Sat1176 has explained above.  Whether you should think of sleep as a hindrance or not, is difficult to justify.

According to my own experience, I reckon that some of us may assume we are falling asleep, but in fact, we are rising into deeper states.   I'm no expert on sleep, but i can give a few pointers for you to look into....

- If you drift off into dream state, then this is mostly Maya.  I'm referring to doing simran whilst sat up with back straight. Doing simran whilst lying down is something I could discuss in the future. For yourself, at this stage, i would pay attention to what happens exactly when you think you're falling asleep?

1) You're head may droop forward, but if you're back and posture is giving way, then a) you are probably going into dream state-maya or b) you're prana flow isn't strong enough. 

OR

2) if you are drifting and can maybe hear things in background, and not losing your asan, AND gurmantar is still going, ..then you are most likely going towards the dreamless void(eventually).  From what I remember, this stage was rather confusing because i was never sure if i were asleep or in deeper consciousness.  IMO, i'd say to continue going deeper into your simran if you are encountering this.   Just keep checking that your gurmantar was still going. The tricky part is that you'll only be able to confirm this once you are back and fully awake (disassociated).

 

This was the approach that i was using at the time, even though I wasn't sure, but It helped in progressing further.  I hope that gives you  better understanding. Really, you don't wanna overthink it too much either but just keep focus on gurmantar. If sleep comes, and you really feel inclined to get under the duvet, then do so. Otherwise, just continue and assess after the session.  Before hearing naam, you're mind will go through a number of intermediary stages. It's all about  'cleansing' the mann.   

 

In time,  you  will learn that there is much more to sleep and how a gurmukh remains jagath 'an-din' (day-night). I'm not going to say too much on those topics or how it's possible, because it will probably be confusing. 

 

 

 

On 2/27/2019 at 3:48 PM, Sat1176 said:

Some can enter this stage directly, but some like me fall asleep and then enter this state. It is spontaneous and only happens with Waheguru's grace. You can't force it and it will happen when you least expect it. Mind in it's chatter must become small as a tiny piece of a mustard seed so it fits through a tiny hole so to speak to enter higher states. When this happens the mind awakens itself on the other side known as becoming "jagrath". Those steps I shared with you in the above post are a way to try and induce that state at night. Your body goes to sleep but mind tries to awaken, so you can spend the night in the higher states and doing bhagti whilst the body gets rest. Some will question and be sceptical of this form of night time bhagti, as it is not how it is normally preache

Now after about an year I am able to understand what you both meant here. I thank you again !-that could only be have understood once one experience it. we have always perceived sunn as sleep but body sleeping and mind being awake, now I understood what you meant.

Also for someone who may be facing sleep during meditation don't worry! it's a part of the game. It overall rises your concious. Sleep strengthens our grounds to let waheguru ji come and reside on our hirda.its a slow process

 

[Lucky]

19 hours ago, Mooorakh said:

 

Now after about an year I am able to understand what you both meant here. I thank you again !-that could only be have understood once one experience it. we have always perceived sunn as sleep but body sleeping and mind being awake, now I understood what you meant.

Also for someone who may be facing sleep during meditation don't worry! it's a part of the game. It overall rises your concious. Sleep strengthens our grounds to let waheguru ji come and reside on our hirda.its a slow process

 

Very good bhenji. I'm glad you are progressing and things are making more sense

Also, on this note of sleep;... I've been wearing a fitness tracker for quite a few months that tracks stages of sleep as well as many other things.  I noticed that when going into deep meditation/sunn, it logs as 'deep sleep' stage. Normally this stage comes after some time spent in REM and light sleep.  I was amazed to notice that at times of going into instant abyaas with seconds/minutes of rom rom; the sleep graph will display a sudden dip from awake stage--to--> deep sleep mode.   Now, on nights when i'm trying to go to sleep and do so by stopping vichaar with antarghat simran, it will also exhibit a rapid jump from awake--> deep sleep The other thing I found outstanding was that on these nights, my level of deep sleep is always way above the benchmark of  12-18%.   

This aim of going into sunn at sleep time is recommended and you will also find that you will wake up fully refreshed with less than 5 hours average sleep.

 

 

[Mooorakh]

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

Very good bhenji. I'm glad you are progressing and things are making more sense

Thanku, you ofcourse hold major role in it. I am blessed to be here.

 

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

as well as many other things.  I noticed that when going into deep meditation/sunn, it logs as 'deep sleep' stage. Normally this stage comes after some time spent in REM and light sleep.  I was amazed to notice that at times of going into instant abyaas with seconds/minutes of rom rom; the sleep graph will display a sudden dip from awake stage--to--> deep sleep mode.   Now, on nights when i'm trying to go to sleep and do so by stopping vichaar with antarghat simran, it will also exhibit a rapid jump from awake--> deep sleep The other thing I found outstanding was that on these nights, my level of deep sleep is always way above the benchmark of  12-18%.   

Hanji, I can understand. Sometimes I myself get confused if I was sleeping or meditating,, and that's just a machine. But the idea overall is that 'silence of mind' and that's the most difficult part of this game.
 

[Sat1176]

Bhai Dharamjit Singh explained the vidi to try and transcend sleep when it comes during meditation. 

Listen from 32 mins. 

Conclusion we want to do simran to get us to the point of sleepiness and then try and remain awake at the junction. May not be so easy as it sounds. Most of us don't know when that exact point comes. 

[Soulfinder]

Why Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj never slept in Love of Guru Nanak

 

[Sat1176]

I still believe that you need rise above any body awareness yet mind stays awake. 

How to get there is the challenge. 

 

[Mooorakh]

Baba Nand Singh ji was very high ' kamai' soul ofcourse, who had janms of Naam Dhan. His practices were more ' yogic' - we are not ' kinka' equivalent- so if we follow not sleeping for days ( years is obviously far unimaginable) we would loose some brain nerves or mental balance - for that matter. We can't even think of following his life style like shedding Maya totally ( he never touched money- left family- wore negligible clothes- even in super cold weather, ate nothing for days).

This is like Dhanna ji or Namdev ji who took their elders words' literally and sat to ensure that Thakur would eat ( laavo bhog Har Rai) - similarly Baba Nand Singh ji took it literally that Gurmukhs never sleeps.. and Waheguru being ' bhaav Bhagat ka bhookha' got them across!! I wish we were also away from these ' chaturaaiyaa' and meet our Gopal with such 'bhole bhaav'...

 

[harsharan000]

10 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

I still believe that you need rise above any body awareness yet mind stays awake. 

How to get there is the challenge. 

 

With His kirpa, and then by one's realization of such deep bhakti, then determination to adhere to it firmly, in order to get that desired divine transformation. 

His grace and our sincere efforts go hand by hand.

[Sat1176]

Tried it on the train on my way home with eyes closed just observing. I’m sure I dosed off for a few minutes. 

[Ragmaala]

19 hours ago, Mooorakh said:

We can't even think of following his life style

Exactly. We cannot copy them.  Mahapurush have different roles and duties in this world, they are sent by Nirankar Himself for certain objectives.  We as householders need proper sleep, diet, exercise, and kirat to fulfill our duties and roles and to meet Nirankar ji. 

[Soulfinder]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:18 PM, Mooorakh said:

Baba Nand Singh ji was very high ' kamai' soul ofcourse, who had janms of Naam Dhan. His practices were more ' yogic' - we are not ' kinka' equivalent- so if we follow not sleeping for days ( years is obviously far unimaginable) we would loose some brain nerves or mental balance - for that matter. We can't even think of following his life style like shedding Maya totally ( he never touched money- left family- wore negligible clothes- even in super cold weather, ate nothing for days).

This is like Dhanna ji or Namdev ji who took their elders words' literally and sat to ensure that Thakur would eat ( laavo bhog Har Rai) - similarly Baba Nand Singh ji took it literally that Gurmukhs never sleeps.. and Waheguru being ' bhaav Bhagat ka bhookha' got them across!! I wish we were also away from these ' chaturaaiyaa' and meet our Gopal with such 'bhole bhaav'...

 

Bhen ji you are 100% correct we are nothing compared to these mahapurshs.

 

Here is a very good short clip dass found where Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale are talking about sleep which is really good and worth sharing on here

HOW MUCH SLEEP DO WE REALLY NEED? Sant ISHER Singh Ji rara sahib wale

 

[Soulfinder]

What Are You Doing Asleep | Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale

 

 

ਨਿਤਨੇਮ ਵਿਚ ਜੇ ਨੀਂਦ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਵੀਡੀਓ ਦੇਖੋ। Sleepy During Nitnem? Watch This Video

 

[Mooorakh]

Hanji, actually I have recently started to understand this concept of sleep and sunn and  as per my understanding there's a thin line between the two.  

Here are the links that may clear the difference for u as it's really important for sangat on this path to understand. 

 

Twist this as per Gurmat and let's do Japp before sleeping. I am trying on this though easier said than done