Why "Namdhari" is Not Sikhs?

[Jarnail Singh Khalsaa]

“Namdharis” to whom the whole sikh community does not consider “Sikhs”, their present head Thakur Dalip Singh is talking about expensation of Sikhism. The way he (Dalip Singh) is talking to promote our sikh religion, nobody talks like him amongst our selfs. We guys are always mad at each other, fighting over the useless petty issues and use abusive language. Even though we don’t accept namdhari as “Sikhs” but we must watch his video and try to understand his concept of promoting “Sikhism”.

 

 

[HarjasDevi]

Namdhari Panth in every way is swaroop of true Gursikhi.

[Soulfinder]

16 hours ago, Jarnail Singh Khalsaa said:

“Namdharis” to whom the whole sikh community does not consider “Sikhs”, their present head Thakur Dalip Singh is talking about expensation of Sikhism. The way he (Dalip Singh) is talking to promote our sikh religion, nobody talks like him amongst our selfs. We guys are always mad at each other, fighting over the useless petty issues and use abusive language. Even though we don’t accept namdhari as “Sikhs” but we must watch his video and try to understand his concept of promoting “Sikhism”.

 

 

Veer ji i have made a post on this subject and here is the link

 

But i will add it again what dass posted as it was by Sri Maan Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindrawale

Veer ji here is Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa view on them at 01:15 and 2:45 onwards are the namdhari mentions

Veer ji here is another really good view by Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindrawale.

Everyone must listen at 5:20 onwards as this is worth listening.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Sant.Jarnail.Singh.(Bhindra.wale)--Sukhmani.Sahib.Da.Parchar.mp3

[Soulfinder]

2 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

Namdhari Panth in every way is swaroop of true Gursikhi.

Bhen ji true but now they have no use for the Sikh Panth especially since they didn't help in 1984 when we really needed it.

[HarjasDevi]

4 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

Bhen ji true but now they have no use for the Sikh Panth especially since they didn't help in 1984 when we really needed it.

All Sikhs were targeted in 1984. Namdhari Panth didn't support the separatist state of Khalistan. You must differentiate what the allegation is... they didn't help Sikhs, or they didn't take up arms in support of anti-India militancy? for those are separate things. Khalistanis are not all Sikhs. Khalistan is not about Sikhism.

[chatanga1]

On 3/7/2020 at 11:20 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Namdhari Panth in every way is swaroop of true Gursikhi.

Gursikhi is more than the swaroop.

 

On 3/8/2020 at 1:36 AM, Soulfinder said:

Bhen ji true but now they have no use for the Sikh Panth especially since they didn't help in 1984 when we really needed it.

Of course they didn't. They did exactly the opposite.

 

One of the biggest supporters of the Panjab congress was an namdhari. Harvinder Singh Hanspal was a high ranking member of the Naamdhari Panth. He was also a high ranking member of congress party in 1980s in Panjab. Hanspal also participated in the indian terrorist backed "World Sikh Conference" in 1984 to support the indian state's terrorist actions.

 

On 3/8/2020 at 5:49 AM, HarjasDevi said:

All Sikhs were targeted in 1984. Namdhari Panth didn't support the separatist state of Khalistan. You must differentiate what the allegation is... they didn't help Sikhs, or they didn't take up arms in support of anti-India militancy? for those are separate things. Khalistanis are not all Sikhs. Khalistan is not about Sikhism.

The allegation is simple. They did zero, actually minus zero to help any Sikhs in those decades.

 

[HarjasDevi]

Gursikhi is not about politics ever.  No Namdhari ever supported Congress government pogrom against Sikhs, and every Sikh including Namdharis was included in those who were attacked. Namdharis do not support anti-India, anti-government militancy or acts of domestic terrorism.  I personally am not a Namdhari, but they are not guilty of anything against Khalsa Panth... and neither do corrupted Kharkhoos and goondas who fired machine guns and ignited bombs targetting not only guilty but innocents as well fighting a "war of terror" against civilians out of revenge and stupidity...and running drugs into Punjab on behalf of Pakistani ISI... neither do they speak for what Sikhism is or isn't... and worse, those have swaroop of goondas and not of Guru's Sikhs.

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

No Namdhari ever supported Congress government pogrom against Sikhs,

Again trying to cover the misdeeds of others when it suits your agenda. I have already stated that Hanspal supported the indian states' World Sikh Conference in 1984, and even after did everything to cover the killings of people by the indian state.

Now watch this you criminal apologist! Hanspal tries his best to get an victim of 84 genocide to not give a statement against sajjan kumar.

 

[HarjasDevi]

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Again trying to cover the misdeeds of others when it suits your agenda. I have already stated that Hanspal supported the indian states' World Sikh Conference in 1984, and even after did everything to cover the killings of people by the indian state.

Now watch this you criminal apologist! Hanspal tries his best to get an victim of 84 genocide to not give a statement against sajjan kumar.

You have extremely unclear thinking. He was not a Khalistani, that's for sure.  But supporting unity of State of India against separatism is NOT the same thing as advocating attack on Sikhs.  I said:

Quote

No Namdhari ever supported Congress government pogrom against Sikhs

Show me where anyone from Namdhari Panth advocated that innocent Sikhs should be attacked, beaten, robbed, raped, tortured, killed? 

Now you flip and flop to grab some Congressi guy who is a Namdhari spinning damage control of his political party to suppress witness statement to media. Namdhari Panth doesn't force people to vote for Congress party, irrespective of whether Harvinder Singh Hanspal is high ranking member of Congress party. And you have not shown anywhere that Harvinder Singh Hanspal advocated anti-Sikh pogrom, or that Namdharis were themselves also free from attack.

Just because someone is Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Sikh, Namdhari Sikh does not prevent someone from being corrupted or even criminal.  You are labeling some stupid Congressi corrupted as being the same as Namdhari Panth advocated for Sikh genocide.  No one in Namdhari Panth did that to my knowledge.

Now you call me a criminal... if I am a criminal who has never physically harmed anyone in my life, then you have a very warped sense of what criminal means... oh wait, by definition of course must mean ANYONE who supports HINDU RELIGION so you can then justify goonda terrorism against me in some fantasy of self-defense. And yes, Khalistani's advocate murder of Namdhari Guru.

Quote

"Birmingham Crown Court was shown video footage of the moment he was attacked, suffering a broken arm and facial injuries. Opening the case, prosecutor Gordon Aspden said Toor, of Woods Close, Oadby, Leicestershire, was motivated by religious hatred for his victim...

He said: "Although the defendant is an orthodox Sikh he was dressed like a Namdhari, wearing a white turban."That manner of dress meant he was able to walk into the gurdwara without being challenged." He walked down the central aisle... and when he reached the platform, the defendant pulled back his shawl and produced an axe that he had concealed underneath it."He then attacked the guru with the axe...

Shortly after the attack, he was heard to say that "his guru" was the Sikh holy book and he did not believe in a living guru, the court was told. In his attack, Toor swung the 3ft long axe three times, breaking his victim's arm as he tried to protect himself and slashing his face, jurors were told."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-26125466

It is obvious before the world the Khalistani-separatist lunatics are the true kaam-krodhis, criminals and murderers... and their hate-filled, rage-provoking ideology of radical Talibani-like intolerance of anything Hindu and praising violence against even the unsuspecting, unarmed, and elders who do not share their sectarian religious views and instead concoct anything against Namdhari Panth, or Nirankaris, or any Sanatan group, or Hindus to justify their political gooda-ism. What is really deeply sad to me... is that it took a demon like KPS Gill to actually speak the truth about it... because Khalsa Panth is so enamored of the terrorists that it commits sins against the youth by complicity of silence.  You accuse me of so many things... yet what Nationalism are Sikh Youth upholding?  loyalty to non-existent Khalistan>?  Loyalty to Britain?  Canada?  USA?  Australia?  Germany?  Malaysia?  ANYWHERE but MOTHERLAND? And now can do nothing less than advocate extremist hate for Hindus, and blind support of any foreign state or jihadi attempt to break apart India... well try that in UK, USA, Canada, Germany, Malaysia.. you'll find yourself on trial for treason and terrorism and disappear.  What kind of insane political radicalism is that to teach the youth in the name of religion?

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

You have extremely unclear thinking. He was not a Khalistani, that's for sure

Who said he was a Khalistani? i didn't. You have somewhere exerted that brain cell of yours and assumed that I did. That is unclear thinking.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

Show me where anyone from Namdhari Panth advocated that innocent Sikhs should be attacked, beaten, robbed, raped, tortured, killed? 

Again with your unclear thinking! I never said that. I said, and produced irrefutable evidence that "someone from namdhari panth" was defending the mass murderers of Sikhs. Defending mass murderers is almost as bad. Those victims were killed once by the congress, and then again by the likes of hanspal. A namdhari, in case you are unclear of his religion.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

Now you flip and flop to grab some Congressi guy who is a Namdhari spinning damage control of his political party to suppress witness statement to media.

"Flip flop"? I knew that video would expose you and the criminal appologist that you are. Look at how you try and put a spin on it. So amusing.

 

 

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

What is really deeply sad to me... is that it took a demon like KPS Gill to actually speak the truth about it...

Demons always tell the truth don't they? Murderers always admit truthfully to their murders don't they?

And criminal apologists like yourself "speak the truth" about it don't they?

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

You accuse me of so many things...

You reveal these things about you. And then lie about them. And then I expose your poison for what it really is.

 

You want to share some more namdhari videos? Sure...

 

[HarjasDevi]

15 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Demons always tell the truth don't they? Murderers always admit truthfully to their murders don't they?

And criminal apologists like yourself "speak the truth" about it don't they?

KPS Gill told the truth about Khalistani militants targeting their sectarian rivals from sanatan deray for cold-blooded murder.  Not only do his statistics tell the story, so many cases in the intervening years are a repeat of the grossest forms of cowardly attacks and murders,,, against persons who have sanatan viewpoint.  So, it isn't that devils don't lie, but in this case the truth was told as substantiated by the facts of the multiple cases... and the horrible culture of goonda-ism which pro-Khalistani Sikh youth are advocating on media.

Quote

criminal apologists like yourself "speak the truth"

Who did I advocate be attacked, beaten or killed?  You want to defend Jaggi... fine.  I personally believe the charges but he deserves his day in Court.  I am not advocating against him, I hope and even pray he gets a fair trial.  If he is proved innocent I will be the first to send him my regards and be sure on media that is is widely known.  As for now, the case doesn't look good for him.  The entire Khalistan militancy looks pretty terrible.  They keep doing bad things..

Quote

You want to share some more namdhari videos? Sure...

I'm not a Namdhari, so knock yourself out... however, I have been a few times in pro-Khalistani Gurdwaray where fights broke out.  It is shameful isn't it... but I assure you it doesn't ONLY happen among Namdharis.  At least Namdharis aren't making music video's praising attempted murder and even murder.

[HarjasDevi]

25 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Who said he was a Khalistani? i didn't. You have somewhere exerted that brain cell of yours and assumed that I did. That is unclear thinking.

You need to read more slowly. I said Hanspal wasn't supporting the Khalistani separatist agenda at the World Sikh conference in 1984, as to promote unity of India against issue of separatism.  The point being his personal political issue in support of Congress Party does not belong to Namdhari Panth.  Neither is it the same thing as participating in or advocating for attacks against Sikhs. To my knowledge, no Namdhari ever said or did such things... even though they have as many paapis and criminals as anyone... I am not so irresponsible to falsely blame entire Namdhari Panth for anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984... nor target them for terrorist attacks or murder for having sanatan viewpoint, living Guru or w/e the nut Khalistani crowd deems as worthy of "death."

[chatanga1]

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

KPS Gill told the truth about Khalistani militants targeting their sectarian rivals from sanatan deray for cold-blooded murder. 

gill told many lies in his book to cover up his criminality. The disappearances of thousands from Panjab. For which Jaswant Singh Khalra was also killed by your utopian hindutva state. That must have pleased you no end to hear of Khalra's death.

 

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

Who did I advocate be attacked, beaten or killed? 

You advocate for the defence of those that did. Joint enterprise is what we call it in the UK. You share the responbility for those deaths personally by supporting those who committed the actual murders and by denigrating those who was justice for them.

 

2 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

I am not advocating against him, I hope and even pray he gets a fair trial.

You only labelled him a murderer some hours ago. If you really hoped that he would get a fair trial, you would have responded to, nay even mentioned it before i did, that he has been in jail for over 3 years yet his case has not even progressed one inch in your criminal state.

You have exposed yourself again, as a liar and a fraud. You have no genuine sympathy for any Sikh that has been tortured or killed by your motherland.

 

2 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

If he is proved innocent I will be the first to send him my regards and be sure on media that is is widely known.

"If he is proved innocent" ?? What happened to the universal human right of "innocent until PROVED GUILTY" ? That doesn't happen in your terrorist hindutva state does it.

You will be there with more lies. That is all you are. One lie after another.

 

2 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

I'm not a Namdhari

Who said you was?

[HarjasDevi]

5 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

gill told many lies in his book to cover up his criminality. The disappearances of thousands from Panjab. For which Jaswant Singh Khalra was also killed by your utopian hindutva state. That must have pleased you no end to hear of Khalra's death.

I have always said KPS Gill was guilty of murder, torture and rape.  No, the murder of holy man Jaswant Singh Khalra is a horror to the civilized world and must be protested until the end of time. I support human rights defenders.  I do not support goonda-ism.  Moreover Punjab has inherited the wind with abuses and tortures in custody and in need of desperate reform.  Everyone arrested, whether Hindu, Christian Muslim or Sikh faces torture and rape in custody. We need people like him to expose criminality and corruption in government so that innocents don't suffer.  While that is said bear in mind, KPS Gill is a Sikh, and not a Hindu.  So don;t mistake who to "hate."  Just because KPS Gill is correct that Khalistani militancy has from the beginning targeted Sanatan Sikhs for murder doesn't absolve him of his own criminality in slaughtering 1000x more innocents then they ever did.

But I ask you, as a human being... why do the pro-Khalistani's continue to advocate targeted murders of sanatan Sikhs if KPS Gill lied?

[chatanga1]

2 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

I said Hanspal wasn't supporting the Khalistani separatist agenda at the World Sikh conference in 1984, as to promote unity of India against issue of separatism. 

Of course he wasn't ! The World sikh conference was a congress event. Why would the congress let any one but their own supporters speak there?

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

ANYWHERE but MOTHERLAND?

Panjab is my motherland. The same land where the sons of Panjab were killed in their thousands by the terrorist indian state. How does it feel to be such a cheap whore for the indian terrorist glorifying and defending those who killed the sons of Panjab in their thousands? My mind boggles at that.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

And now can do nothing less than advocate extremist hate for Hindus,

I don't hate hindus. I love any hindu that allows me and my people to breathe. You clearly support those who have been and continue to suffocate my people.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

and blind support of any foreign state or jihadi attempt to break apart India... well try that in UK, USA, Canada, Germany, Malaysia.. you'll find yourself on trial for treason and terrorism and disappear. 

Here the western powers have already devolved parliaments and assemblies to give people more of a say in their regions.

[HarjasDevi]

8 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Of course he wasn't ! The World sikh conference was a congress event. Why would the congress let any one but their own supporters speak there?

Tell me at the event, do you have evidence, recordings or such, newspaper articles that Hanspal promoted and advocated for violent attacks (pogrom) against Sikhs?  You don't do you, or you would have said by now.  Therefore you have said nothing which invalidates my comment that Namdharis have not advocated for anti-Sikh violence.

Quote

Panjab is my motherland. The same land where the sons of Panjab were killed in their thousands by the terrorist indian state. How does it feel to be such a cheap whore for the indian terrorist glorifying and defending those who killed the sons of Panjab in their thousands? My mind boggles at that.

Really, you call me a cheap whore now? That's fine dear, I will pray for you.

Indian terrorist attacks were committed by Indian General Brar, Indian Chief of Police Gill.  Yet you are attacking me for pro-Hindu viewpoint. Okay. It is not even Congress government in power now, and Modi has long spoken against anti-Sikh pogrom... but you still rage like dog with rabies about BJP government being responsible for some imagined anti-Sikh hate.  Why is that?

When did I defend those who killed sons of Punjab... no less they were killed by other sons of Punjab.  When did I advocate the unjust killing of anybody?  Or do you just make that up in your mind to pin some sort of blame and hatred against person like me?  

[chatanga1]

3 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

Yes I have always said KPS Gill was guilty of murder, torture and rape.

No you haven't. You've only admitted to it grudgingly when you knew that you were exposed.

 

3 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

No the murder of holy man Jaswant Singh Khalra is a horror to the civilized world and must be protested until the end of time.

How much protest have your beloved bjp carried out against his murder? How much have you advocated for Khalra to your indian state overlords? The same ones you betray your motherland for?

 

3 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

We need people like him to expose criminality and corruption in government so that innocents don't suffer

Khalra exposed your murdering indian state troopers 25 years ago. Whats the point of exposing them if the government only acts to shield the killers, or ignores the exposure?

Jaggi is innocent until proven guilty. Yet he has been tortured and in jail for years. Isn't he as per universal human rights laws innocent? So why is he suffering? Why are you making him suffer even more?

 

3 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

Just because KPS Gill is correct that Khalistani militancy has from the beginning targeted Sanatan Sikhs for murder

That in itself is wrong. Khalistan moevement had nothing to do with sanatan sikhs, whatever that means. Our struggle was against the non-ending injustice against the Sikhs and Panjab since 1947. Our motherland.

[HarjasDevi]

3 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

No you haven't. You've only admitted to it grudgingly when you knew that you were exposed.

I haven't posted in a long while, but here and on other forums I have always accused or said KPS Gill is guilty of rape, torture and murder absolutely.  Even on this very thread. You have exposed nothing at all. I mean, how can it be hidden?  He's notorious.

[chatanga1]

Just now, HarjasDevi said:

Tell me at the event, do you have evidence, recordings or such, newspaper articles that Hanspal promoted and advocated for violent attacks (pogrom) against Sikhs? 

I never said he did. I said that by being there in person, he was defending the governmants actions against the Sikhs.

 

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

Really, you call me a cheap whore now?

Well you certainly act and talk like one for terrorists.

 

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

That's fine dear, I will pray for you.

Please don't. Prayers from you would be poison. Someone who can revel in the illegal detention and torture of jaggi, whilst labelling him a murderer even though he has not been proved guilty should NOT pray for anyone else.

 

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

Okay. It is not even Congress government in power now, and Modi has long spoken against anti-Sikh pogrom..

Spoken ? WHo cares about "spoken"? It's action that is needed. Actions speak louder than words.

 

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

When did I defend those who killed sons of Punjab...

Same question again? When you support the ideology of murderous states because of some "motherland" rubbish.

[chatanga1]

2 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

I have always accused or said KPS Gill is guilty of rape, torture and murder absolutely.  Even on this very thread. You have exposed nothing at all.

Because you place your faith in him as a bastion of truth when it comes to the origins of the Khalistan movement.

[HarjasDevi]

1 minute ago, chatanga1 said:

Jaggi is not being "illegally" detained.  He's been arrested and case is compiled against him with published evidences.  That said, his guilt has not been established in trial so I did misspeak to claim he is guilty of murders.  It is more correct to say he is ACCUSED of complicity in murders.

 

[HarjasDevi]

2 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Because you place your faith in him as a bastion of truth when it comes to the origins of the Khalistan movement.

I don't place my faith in KPS Gill.  I am shocked how true were his words after time and again hearing sanatan Sikhs and deray being attacked, gurus murdered by Khalistani goondas. You cannot even deny but try to make a case against KPS Gill.. you don't have to... the real question is why are his comments true? Entire Khalistan militancy wasn't about creating a separate homeland... that's just a myth.  It was about TARGETED KILLINGS to eliminate an entire section of Sikh population, which identified with Hindu.

[chatanga1]

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

Jaggi is not being "illegally" detained

Again for those short of understanding because of their devotion to injustice and support of terrorist states, Jaggi has been in jail now for 3 years. His case has not progressed beyond FIR. Why ? Ask yourself. If there was genuine evidence against jaggi he would have been sentenced immediately.

[chatanga1]

1 minute ago, HarjasDevi said:

how true were his words after time and again hearing sanatan Sikhs and deray being attacked

Name some.