Why did Guru Gobind Singh have more than one wife?

[Harjinder]

Why did Guru Gobind Singh have more than one wife? How many marriages did Guru Gobind Singh have?

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings indicating more than one marriage of the Guru and presented it as a royal act. During those days kings, chiefs, and other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have had more than one wife. This is actually incorrect.

In Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding, and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, the engagement was held as soon as the person had passed the infant

stage. Even today engagements at 8 to 12 years of age are not uncommon in some interior parts

of India. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it

takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. A dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at this time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home. Now, the wedding and Muklawa are performed

on the same day and only when the partners are adults.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anand Pur, according to custom, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided at Lahore, which was the capital of the Mughal rulers who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore, along with the armed Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of traveling and huge expenses, in addition to the inconvenience to the Sangat, younger and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was ‘brought’ to Anand Pur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place a couple of miles to the north of Anand Pur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. Today, people are going to Anand Pur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marriage was

celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had reason to assume this because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Panjab of giving a new affectionate name to the bride by her inlaws. Mata Jeeto Ji, because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru’s mother. The two names and two functions gave a basis for outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above.

Some historians even say that Guru Gobind Singh had a third wife, Mata Sahib Kaur. In

1699, the Guru asked her to put patasas (puffed sugar) in the water for preparing Amrit when he

founded the Khalsa Panth. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of

the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa.

People not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual but not the biological father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

From ignorance of Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of his three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Devan, as some Sikh chronicles have mentioned, had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal

was brought for discussion to Anandpur, the Guru had already been married. Therefore, the

Guru said that he could not have another wife since he was already married. The dilemma before

the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to

marry her. The Guru agreed for her to stay at Anand Pur but without accepting her as his wife.

The question arose, as most women desire to have children, how could she have one without

being married. The Guru told, “She will be the “mother” of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world.” The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Devan with preparing Amrit by bringing patasas. It is, therefore, out of ignorance that some writers consider Mata Sahib Devan as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

[Nihal_Kaur]

ummm if Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji was able to have 3 wives, why do people have such a big deal with Guru Gobind Singh Ji having three also? :roll:

we were told in the sangat that there are three seperate "jaggas" as in ashes grave in india for all three wives (By katha vachak Sant Hari Singh of randhava) and I will visit one day, have u seen them?

I'm not sure though..... :shock:

[Mission_Impossible]

ummm if Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji was able to have 3 wives, why do people have such a big deal with Guru Gobind Singh Ji having three also? :roll:

As far as I know, the Gurus only ever had one wife each, I don't know who told you about Guru Hargobind having 3 wives but it is false. He only had one wife. If you wish to contest this matter please provide proof for your assertion, and I mean some real evidence, not what some "baba" at the local Punjabi restaraunt told you, while drinking his "lassi".

we were told in the sangat that there are three seperate "jaggas" as in ashes grave in india for all three wives (By katha vachak Sant Hari Singh of randhava) and I will visit one day, have u seen them?

I'm not sure though..... :shock:

There are no such places, most people just talk out of ignorance, or invent such things (RSS/VHP) to discredit Sikh Gurus and Sikhism. I wouldn't ever believe such things without concrete proof...

Kind Regards,

MI

[Nihal_Kaur]

ok, katha can be done wrongly too i guess. :?

why would u want to make sikhi what u want it to be? ie why would you want to make the Gurus behave in a away that is only acceptable to you? I have no problem with the thought that Guru Ji had 3 wives, its only if i try to fit sikhi in with modern feminist or idealistic marriage ideas do i come a cropper with MY view of historical events.

ummm what proof do you have that Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not have three wives? Actual evidence would be nice....not just heresay..

[Ideal Singh]

Execllent Article Harjinder Ji, I was searching for one...

ummm what proof do you have that Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not have three wives? Actual evidence would be nice....not just heresay..

:arrow: Rather the Question should be : What proof do you have that Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji had more than onw wife... :?: Why you people listen to such katha kar who are bend upon manipulating Sikh history like anything... Whenever somebody asks such questions simpy ask them to support their lies with evidence otherwise they are succeeding in their motive to confuse Sikh Sanghat :!:

What proof do you have that Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji had more than onw wife... :?:

[tSingh]

here we go again...

This topic so far seems to be classic evidence of the problem the panth is suffering from at the moment (hence the rise of people like Kala Afghana); modern Sikhs' bottom-up thinking; 'I don't agree with this, therefore Guruji definately never did it'!

please, posters, try not to simply discuss issues at an emotional level...at least try to find some evidence first.

refs used for the below:

Kahn Singh Nabha's 'Mahan Kosh'

Giani Ishar Singh Nara's 'Safarnama te Zafarnama'

Dr. Ganda Singh 'Hukamnamae'

Parvinder Kaur 'Kar Sewa: Historical Gurdwaras'

1) Kahn Singh Nabha (a Singh Sabhia) has three entries, for each of Guru Gobind Singh ji's wives.

2) There is historical evidence for each wife's existence such as a smadhi for Mata Jeeto, now called Gurdwara Agampur at Sri Anandpur Sahib (she is recorded to have died while Guruji was there). She was cremated by Guru ji himself.

3) Mata Sundri was the mother of Baba Ajit Singh ji. The haveli where she lived and died in Delhi is recorded in Mahan Kosh is now Gurdwara Mata Sundri ji in Delhi.

4) According to the 'Kar Sewa' and 'Hukamname' texts, both Mata Sahib Kaur and Mata Sundri issued hukamname to the Khalsa after Guruji from the haveli in Delhi.

5) Nabha's kosh records Mata Sundri as being the mother of three of the Sahibzaday, Baba Jujhar Singh ji, Baba Fateh Singh ji and Baba Joravar Singh ji.

6) Mata Sahib Kaur's samadhi is near Sri Guru Harkirshan's.

7) I think the author of the much copied and pasted article that started this dicussion has shown great ignorance himself by declaring that Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha and Giani Ishar Singh Nara are ignorant of Punjabi cultural practices!

[Narsingha]

Interesting to note that the Damdami Taksal also consider the concept of multiple wives amongst the Sodhibans Sikh Gurus to be true...

from: http://www.damdamitaksal.com/his_gurus.htm

Satguru Hargobind Sahib Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Damodari Jee, Mata Nanaki Jee, Mata Marvahi Jee

Satgur Har Rai Sahib Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Krishan Kaur Jee, Mata Chand Kaur Jee, Mata Ram Kaur Jee, Mata Kaut Kalyani Jee, Mata Thoki Jee, Mata Anokhi Jee, Mata Ladho Jee, Mata Prem Kaur Jee

Satguru Gobind Singh Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Ajit Kaur Jee, Mata Sunder Kaur Jee, Mata Sahib Kaur Jee

[Guest]

Interesting to note that the Damdami Taksal also consider the concept of multiple wives amongst the Sodhibans Sikh Gurus to be true...

from: http://www.damdamitaksal.com/his_gurus.htm

Satguru Hargobind Sahib Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Damodari Jee, Mata Nanaki Jee, Mata Marvahi Jee

Satgur Har Rai Sahib Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Krishan Kaur Jee, Mata Chand Kaur Jee, Mata Ram Kaur Jee, Mata Kaut Kalyani Jee, Mata Thoki Jee, Mata Anokhi Jee, Mata Ladho Jee, Mata Prem Kaur Jee

Satguru Gobind Singh Jee (Sodh lineage) wives: Mata Ajit Kaur Jee, Mata Sunder Kaur Jee, Mata Sahib Kaur Jee

Let me Correct u.

It says Wife/Consort! Means Wife & his Consorts (Associates) not Wives! And also remeber our Gurus' hav put women equal 2 da same rank as men. Jus cos u see womens names der shouldnt surprise u, our Gurus' never said, "O, ur a women, u can't b my Sikh".

And neways i thought da name Kaur was used after Guru Gobind Singh Ji and not b4. Cos if u look @ da names dey hav Kaur even b4 da time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji introduced da name :idea: .

[Niranjana]

Let me Correct u.

It says Wife/Consort! Means Wife & his Consorts (Associates) not Wives! And also remeber our Gurus' hav put women equal 2 da same rank as men.

And neways i thought da name Kaur was used after Guru Gobind Singh Ji and not b4. Cos if u look @ da names dey hav Kaur even b4 da time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji introduced da name :idea: .

Gur Fateh!

Rupz, please could you differentiate between the role of a consort and a wife? I'm not sure I entirely follow :stupid:

Also you're point about the use of KAUR is valid...not even Guru GobindSingh's wives had this name...

GUR BAR AKAAAAL!

[Guest]

Look into da website, it says Wife/Consort, meaning Wife and Consort. Da website as also put da Gurus wife and his consorts in da same heading. So dis can cofuse ppl in tinking dat da Gurus had more than 1 wife, but no 1 really knows but da Gurus' dem selves. But den i would tink dat our Gurus might b hypnotists (Waheguru 4bid!!) if dey had more dan 1 wife @ a time. If dey had more than 1 wife its probably after dat wife has died, cos der spirit leaves da union of Marriage. Sikhs r allowed 2 re-marry if der partner has died, cos remeber in da past widows were not allowed 2 re-marry b4 Guru Nanak Dev Ji came.

All i kno is dat i trust my Gurus' 2 b Tru. If Sikhi isnt tru den we've would hav been detroyed by da Moghuls long time ago and India would b an Islamic state and 100 Sikhs wouldnt equal 100,000 Moghuls.

Khalsa will be our Sons and Daughters because our Gurus hav said so.

Consort means associate, partner, co-worker, etc.

[Narsingha]

Interesting definitions Rupz :roll:

[Nihal_Kaur]

Rupz raja's had the surname Singh way before Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, and if Kaur is princess, then couldn't it be that the wives with the name Kaur were indeed actual princesses? :roll:

[Niranjana]

Consort means associate, partner, co-worker, etc.

Gur Fateh!

Rupz, thanks for getting back to me. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, and agree this isn't an easy topic to stomach, however, find your description a little hard to follow.

Allow me to explain, if Consort really did mean 'associate, partner, co-worker' as you suggest, then surely Mai Bhago would qualify as a Guru Gobind Singh's consort as she was effectively his 'associate and co-worker' in her role as his personal bodyguard...however do refer to her as such would be sheer absurdity, would it not?

My understanding of the term 'consort' is of a spouse or companion or more formally as a 'noun' the husband or wife of a reigning monarch -this woud coincide with the somewhat simplified reasoning eldar Sardars and Sardarnia have used to explain this matter [i.e. Guru Gobind Singh created a Darbar and in challenge to the Rajput and Moghul rulers also kept more than one wife]

I'll admit that I have personally always found this reasoning to be a tad too loose and shady, however there does appear to be ample evidence to suggest that the Guru's in question had more than one wife...why? I couldn't answer (at present)...in an adequate manner...

For some more formal definitions of consort please see the note below.

As per polygamy, whether or not it is acceptable, it's certainly not feasible in Punjabi Sikh communities given the dwindling numbers of females owing to the sheer stupidity and disgrace that leads to the levels of 'Kurimar' and/or 'Narimar' that occurs to date in Punjab...and elsewhere...

[NOTE: I am not trying to promote polygamy!]

Forgive any foolish comments in the foregoing,

GUR BAR AKAAAAAL!!!

note referred to:

1. One who shares the lot of another; a companion; a partner;

especially, a wife or husband. --Milton.

2. To unite or to keep company; to associate; -- used with with.

Which of the Grecian chiefs consorts with thee?

--Dryden.

3. To unite or join, as in affection, harmony, company,

marriage, etc.; to associate.

He with his consorted Eve. --Milton.

For all that pleasing is to living ears Was there

consorted in one harmony. --Spenser.

He begins to consort himself with men. --Locke.

[Guest]

Moghuls r Muslims, and Muslims r allowed more than 1 wife @ a time, der allowed 2 hav four wives which is allowed by there Quran, its in der Dharam.

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."

[al-Qur'an 4:3]

[Niranjana]

Moghuls r Muslims, and Muslims r allowed more than 1 wife @ a time, der allowed 2 hav four wives which is allowed by there Quran, its in der Dharam.

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."

[al-Qur'an 4:3]

Agreed...however I am not contesting this...which is why I mentioned that "I have personally always found this reasoning to be a tad too loose and shady, however there does appear to be ample evidence to suggest that the Guru's in question had more than one wife...why? I couldn't answer (at present)...in an adequate manner... "

Sorry if I have offended you in anyway...

[Guest Javanmard]

Check Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale's Gurmat Rahit Maryada: he says that Guru Harigobind had three wives, Guru Gobind SIngh had three wives and Guru Hari Rai had eight wives.

[Gupt Singh]

guru harrai didnt have 8 wives, he had 8 'consorts'. most were celibate "nuns" who chilled with him.

[Niranjana]

guru harrai didnt have 8 wives, he had 8 'consorts'. most were celibate "nuns" who chilled with him.

Gur Fateh!

Khalsa Soulja, I like it "nuns" that "chilled" with Guru Har Rai...man, the Underground Sikhi 'massive' should get you for their next album...

OK, seriously, I'd like to know what tangible evidence can be presented for the 'wife' view versus the 'celibate nun' view -we've seen some references alluding to the former, however nothing to suggest that all the marriages were virgin-wedlocks...anyway, whatever the case...as I stated elsewhere on another forum, is it really important for us to 'copy' the Gurus or 'follow' and 'understand' their hukam...?

forgive any foolishness comments in the foregoing,

GUR BAR AAKKKAAAAALLL!!

[Guest]

They had reason to assume this because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Panjab of giving a new affectionate name to the bride by her inlaws. Mata Jeeto Ji, because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru’s mother. The two names and two functions gave a basis for outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above.

Check dis link out.

http://www.santbabamannsingh.com/guru_gobind_singh_ji.htm

[Guest Javanmard]

khalsa soulja wrote

guru harrai didnt have 8 wives, he had 8 'consorts'. most were celibate "nuns" who chilled with him.

chilling out with nuns :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: what a pervert :evil: :evil:

[Nihal_Kaur]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Gupt Singh]

sum1 needs to ban lalleshvari.

the fact that u can call a mahapurkh satguru a pervert just proves the fact that you are a retard. i bet your a shia muslim undercover (or maybe a bahman u never know)

[Guest Javanmard]

sorry for the misunderstanding:I called you a pervert not Maharaj. :wink:

guru harrai didnt have 8 wives, he had 8 'consorts'. most were celibate "nuns" who chilled with him.

are you calling Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale a liar? wouldn't suprise me from part of a AKJ heretic :wink:

[Gupt Singh]

hahahhaa............lalleshvari..........u are acknowledged on most sikhi message boards as being the no1 perv, occasionally pretending to be a girl and sometimes trying to justify it by saying "theres stuff like that in triyah charitrer so its orite for me to do it"........so its kinda rich coming from you.....

on the official damdami taksal website it says "WIVES/CONSORTS". why dont u use your scholarly dictionaries and look up all the different meanings of consorts, and why it has been used in addition to wives.

[Pheena]

aight so if it is proven that our 10th Nanak had more than one wife (which is very unlikely)...which he actually married. but lets assume that its is correct.

Then how many of you will go out and marry more than one woman?? If you are taking this as soemthing you wish to implement into your life, then before you fall into the Kaam of marriage, Become Guru Gobind Singh ji, then decide. But it is difficult to become a Guru but easier to follow something which fuels your Vices.

What is the purpose behind marrying more than one woman??? was our guru Full of Kaam...the Roop of our Khalsa, the Roop of God himself???? What purpose would it serve for our guru to marry more than one woman?

In my opinion, Guru ji took them under his wing...some peple took it as he had wed them. That could not be the Case. Like Khalsa Soulja said, you can take it as a they were Nuns as Deciples along with Singhs and Singnies.

that is just my views...

Waheguru.