BabbarSher Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 ""When are we going hunting Babbar? Unless you find that morally apprehensible? If you'd like to cast doubt on that too, perhaps you'd better read Bhai Gurdas' Varan a little closer"" Whenever you want Buddy. We could hunt down a few Wahhabis ;-) Another assumption.......Can you please clarify a bit more on the hunting aspect. I think we have common ground there. Anyway, the point is that Guru is the model for the sikh, not vice a versa. A Guru would never do something which will result in controversy later on. Please answer: Who was Guru Angad Dev Ji before he became a Guru. I think he was a sikh, as it was for the other Gurus before they became Guru. We cant simply expect that they changed the rules suddenly. In fact rules become tougher for them !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4RPAL Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 This topic is funny- it started out as why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji have more than one wife,moved on to did he have more than one wife, then to polygamy/polyandry in general and then onto absolute rubbish. I think I will take it a step back now. Polygamy/polyandry has been discussed ina historic or cultural context here. how about moving the debate to current society. As you will all be aware, there is a huge issue of female infanticide in Punjab today, which limits the female population. Why don't we start discussing how polyandry will ahve to become acceptable soon, as there will not be enough women for one each, let alone polygamous marriages. What I am trying to say is that, why do we discuss dead issues that belong to the past with such zeal when we have bigger issues to worry about- OUR future? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalvir Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 i was told that Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji had only one wife, who had many names. Also, since some of the women liked to stay with Guru Ji people thought that Guru Ji got married again, ...and again. also, my grandma being taught in a Gurdwara said that Mata Ajeeto, Mata Sundri were not married because they wanted to stay in the Charna of Guru Ji. BUT this is a big but, ive also heard that Guru Ji wanted to teach Aurengzeb a lesson that he isnt God by telling the oppressed people what they can and cannot do by going aganst his order that non-muslims can only have 1 wife, whereas muslims can have 4 or more (i dont recall) and having 3 wives. But in conclusion, i dont really know... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 But in conclusion, i dont really know... that's very good of u to admit that... a lot of the posts on this topic are written by ppl who 'know' they are right... no evidence or lack of required!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 "Guru Hargobind Ji had 1 wife Guru Har Rai Ji had 1 wife Guru Gobind Singh Ji had 1 wife" The Khalsa Fuj, could you kindly provide ONE puratan historical reference to evidence your claim. Cheers bud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 This is addressed in this video fast forward for the answer to 14.09 really should watch the video for a fuller answer. But really more questions rather then answers. Mata Jeto Ji, Mata Sundiri, Mata Sahib Kaur? Mata Sahib Kaur was the mother of khalsa But with Mata Sundiri and Mata Jeto it is said they had different children, some say 1 wife died he remarried, others say same wife just renamed. Then some say there was a complicated Sakhi were he had to marry both at the same time, but 1 died and he stayed with 1, both have separate tomb locations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I am after hard historical written evidence rather than new theories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 whats so wrong about having more than one wife? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 whats so wrong about having more than one wife? For Sikhs (not Guru), Bhai Gurdas Ji states what the ideal is - one wife. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 "whats so wrong about having more than one wife?" Are you married? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 neither of you answered my question. i said what is so wrong about having more than one wife. since when was Bhai Gurdas an authority? since never. shaheediyan are you married? im sorry but im dont see any meaning in your 'answer'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Bhai Gurdas Ji's writings hold the key to Guru Sahib. The first thing you learn in any traditional Sikh order is Bhai Gurdas' vaaran. What makes you question his authority - have you read the Vaars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Polygamy for thousands of years was considered a normal thing to do. Before the Europeans arrived in India, polygamy was quite common amongst the Indians whether they be Hindu, Muslim or Sikh. It was never considered to be 'wrong' by anyone in India which is why even religious scriptures of India have never condemned polygamy. It was very common for influential men whether they be kings or even holy-men to have more than one wife. It is all to do with social values. Social values change with time and even depending on the location on the globe. Indian culture has changed so much just in the last 60 years. In fact just the last 15 years Indian culture has had a huge change with increasing globalisation. It would be wrong for us to determine whether or not polygamy is wrong based on our current social values. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 i dont even see how it is considered wrong by todays standards? espicially if a person is wealthy, who cares if they have more than one wife? (i assume all partners consent to the situation). Matheen, i question how he even came to be called 'key to Gurbani' or considered any kind of authority. I have a book of his Vaars at home. He's a very talented writer, but from what I can make out he is just that- a contemporary (of Guru's) and a writer. That doesnt equate to an authority or imply we should use him in that way. Does he even mention anythign about his acquintance with sangat let alopne Guru Arjan Dev? In what way is his writing 'key'? Theres nothign to say his writing was even affliated let alone approved by Gurus. I am not telling others to reject his writing I am just saying I dont know how/why they are considered authoritative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 i dont even see how it is considered wrong by todays standards? espicially if a person is wealthy, who cares if they have more than one wife? (i assume all partners consent to the situation). Matheen, i question how he even came to be called 'key to Gurbani' or considered any kind of authority. I have a book of his Vaars at home. He's a very talented writer, but from what I can make out he is just that- a contemporary (of Guru's) and a writer. That doesnt equate to an authority or imply we should use him in that way. Does he even mention anythign about his acquintance with sangat let alopne Guru Arjan Dev? In what way is his writing 'key'? Theres nothign to say his writing was even affliated let alone approved by Gurus. I am not telling others to reject his writing I am just saying I dont know how/why they are considered authoritative. Bhai Gurdas Jee's writing along with the writings of Bhai Nand Lal Jee are considered canonical for Sikhs. It is not just the Sampradayak orders, but even Akal Takht Maryadha(SGPC) confirms this. I think Bhai Gurdas Jee's Varaan are considered 'key' because they explain Sikh philosophy as written in Guru Granth Sahib Jee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 "shaheediyan are you married? im sorry but im dont see any meaning in your 'answer'." Yes I am. My point was, do you think it would be easy to have more than 1 wife (and family), LOL. I wasn't arguing against the notion, I agree largely with what Mithar says, and I think Bhai Gurdas Jis vaar has been taken out of context (he may well have been talking about the norm or ideal (easy route), or even about mystical sphere). Personally I think the 'ideal' is 1 wife or 1 husband, but there are factors which may necessitate otherwise, I don't think people should get hung up on this. Does anyone know how many wives Bhai Manni Singh Ji Shaheed had just out of interest... its a good Gursikh example of someone other than Guru Sahiban... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 " I have two wives, Its only for state benefit purposes! lol" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Did'n Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh stay unmarried his entire life time? Same as Bhai Gurdass, Baba Budha and Baba Deep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I know baba budda ji, baba deep singh ji were behingumas not too sure about bhai gurdas ji and bhai mani singh ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 It depends on which version you choose to believe - Giani Garja singh attests via the Bhatt Vahi that Bhai Mani singh Ji was marreid twice and had 10 children. Rattan Singh Bhangu says he remained celibate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 "whats so wrong about having more than one wife?" Are you married? lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 It depends on which version you choose to believe - Giani Garja singh attests via the Bhatt Vahi that Bhai Mani singh Ji was marreid twice and had 10 children. Rattan Singh Bhangu says he remained celibate. this is due to the "mix-up" between 2 Mani Singhs. One , a Kamboh, same caste as Giani Garja Singh, who came from Multan, and the other Mani Singh who was from vill Longowal, Sangrur. even now on the net i find conflicting accounts of which Mani Singh was the scribe of Aad Guru Sahib. Kambohs claim that it was their Mani Singh who was the shaheed Mani Singh. any can confirm ? also 1 woman chatting drivel is enough for 1 man. if it was 2 they could tag-team him and drive him insane within a matter of moments!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 also 1 woman chatting drivel is enough for 1 man. if it was 2 they could tag-team him and drive him insane within a matter of moments!!! mega lol :lol: you guys are on about having 2 wives..don't know how you guys going to manage.. i sometimes wish if i could have married a half a women and other half without battery laid nicely on a bed with a blanket...zZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....jk.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 The guys normally hung up on the number of wives issue are normally either adolescent unmarried teenagers or MDVSs (modern day victorian Sikhs). Chatanga, lol - discretion obvioulsy hasn't graced your life yet! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 sorry but this idea of 'ideal sikhs' is complete nonesense. why should anyone imitate Gurdas or Mani Singh? and who called them ideal. people just keep filling others sikhs minds with increasing amoount of admin cut regarding Gurdas funny how some admin opend a thread asking people who dont 'follow' him to provide historical proof- funny how since you are the one supporting him we would think the onus is on you. and then Balbir Singh started giving good arguements oh look thread was closed. lets get this straight, is anyone seriously entertaining the notion that Gurdas Vaaran is Gurbani? I hope not. Or that he is indespensable? This is the invention of others. Mod's Note: Please address puratan gursikhs with respect, if not bhai sahib, can we request at least address them with Ji. Your intentions might be good, but lot of youths come on to this forum. We should set an example for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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