Ideal Singh Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Lalleswari once said : we should consider Sikhs being the original Hindus... Please discuss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Well, if thats the case then it is direct attack on Hinduism's credibility. We need to reform things if they have errors. And I think following article explains it very well that Sikhism is not reformed Hinduism. http://www.gurmatstudies.com/articles/khalsa.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Lalleswari once said : we should consider Sikhs being the original Hindus... Please discuss. You have to remember that the word Hinduism refers to the whole of Indian subcontinent's many religious traditions and philosophies.Many with opposing beliefs and practices. Some of India's religions are very puratanical and some consider the eating of meat and drinking of alcohol a compulsory practice of their beliefs.Some traditions are sacred, some profane.Most people only know moorti puja aspect of Hinduism. It's not just Sikhi which frowns upon idol worship.I can only think of a Tamil adept called Chivavaakkiyar who rejected the Veda, condemned the caste sytem and idol worship and even rejected the doctrine of rebirth (punar janam). Sikhi is not Hinduism.Sikhi comes from Paarbrahm, therefore it is Timeless. Sikhi is Dharam - Gyaan in it's original form for the whole of this planet.It is the original form of Gyaan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Please take no offence... If Sikhi is true Dharma then why is it that Sikhs are alienated from the country of their origin ? Cant Sikhs be called Hindus (I mean natives of Hindustan.) ? Why are we agitated if we are called Hindus... by claiming ourselves to be original hindus don't you think sikhs would eliminate identity crisis they found themselves to be in... PS : By Hindus I mean natives of a place called Hindustan... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Let me add this that official name of India is "Bharat" not Hindustan if im not mistaken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Then who are so called Hindus ? Is there anything called Hindu Religion? Is it necessary to have a separate country for each Religions propunded. Should countries be divided based on Religion or Culture.? I think religion should be a personal choice. Then there is a positive in Hinduism... it supports choice for a personal God ? ...33 Crores Devtaes but then that would mean that there should be 33 crores countries ? I hope you getting myself... :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 http://hinduwebsite.com/hinduintrod1.htm brother take a look at that site..scrolol down to the section called: Is Hinduism a Religion ? from the definition of CULT on Encarta.com Hinduism seems to be more like a CUlt:? bhull chukk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Then who are so called Hindus ? Is there anything called Hindu Religion? Is it necessary to have a separate country for each Religions propunded. Should countries be divided based on Religion or Culture.? I think religion should be a personal choice. Then there is a positive in Hinduism... it supports choice for a personal God ? ...33 Crores Devtaes but then that would mean that there should be 33 crores countries ? I hope you getting myself... :roll: Hinduism is not just 33 crores Devtas and Devtees. Hinduism is umbrella form, which is given to lots of traditions and philosophies all together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 What is a Cult ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Are we on same topic? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Are we on same topic? :roll: Sorry I was talking to Mr. Singh also ? What do you mean by umbrella form ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Something that encompasses or covers many different elements or groups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 http://hinduwebsite.com/hinduintrod1.htm Is Hinduism a Religion ? Truly speaking, when we talk of Hinduism, we do not know whether we are talking about a religion, or a group of religions, or a group of beliefs and traditions, some of which are diametrically opposed to each other. This some times gives rise to the argument that Hinduism cannot be considered as a religion in the strictest sense of the word, but as a concept that incorporates into itself many religious thoughts and world views. What do we mean by the word "Hindu" and "Hinduism"? Hinduism differs from other organized religions in the following aspects: It is not based upon a particular founder. It is not based upon a particular book. It is not controlled by a central institution or authority such as a church or a sangha or association. It is not averse to examine and assimilate fundamentally diverse thoughts and beliefs into its system. It accepts other religions as various paths to salvation and does not favor organized attempts to proselytize people. It has been evolving continuously, through internal reforms and as a reaction to the threats and challenges without. Definition of CULT: 1. religion: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided or unorthodox 2. religious group: a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs 3. idolization of somebody or something: extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity ( often used before a noun ) a cult following 4. object of idolization: a person, philosophy, or activity regarded with extreme or excessive admiration 5. fad: something popular or fashionable among a devoted group of enthusiasts ( often used before a noun ) cult status 6. ethnology system of supernatural beliefs: a body of organized practices and beliefs supposed to involve interaction with and control over supernatural powers 7. elite group: a self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective Bhull chukk maaf and forgive my limited knowledge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 when I said that when confronted with RSS we Sikhs should reply that we are the real Hindus whereas they were fake I menat it to be tactics. I just can't believe how people can be so petty and literal :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 We can't call Hinduism a cult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hinduism is neither a cult nor a religion. It is a construct established during the British by Orientalist scholars and the Smarta Brahmin elite and adopted via education by the emerging middle classes who started to impose their values on the rest of society. see Richard King, Orientalism and Religion, London: Routledge, 1999. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yeah! Good reply Lalleshwari and i'm glad you back. Actually if we see its so hard to understand Hinduism. I mean I was talking to this south Indian and I asked him if they burn "Ravan" as well after doing Ram-leela? He was kind of upset and his anwser was " We don't follow nonsense of Gujrati Hindus".... I mean there is worship done by few and others burn him as demon and both are Hindus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 when I said that when confronted with RSS we Sikhs should reply that we are the real Hindus whereas they were fake I menat it to be tactics. I just can't believe how people can be so petty and literal :evil: Haan Ji... People are indeed petty and literal... and thats what people actaully are... we can not change them... And certainly not everyone can be a divine thinker as dear lalleshwari Penji... Can you elaborate on your tactics a little further... My little intellect can't think any further then your comments... :roll: Thanx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I can be as divine as Lalleshvari!! Basically by saying that we are the real Hindus we are completely destroying their (ie RSS) argument. We not only agree with their assumption that Sikhs are Hindus, but we go further and claim that they themselves are not Hindus! Its a very good tactic when used in an argument. You seem to agree with the other person and before they have realised it you have already destroyed their argument. Hang on, you were being sarcastic weren't you Ideal Singh?? Tut tut. Looks like I will have to re-evaluate my level of divineness. I've re-evaluated it. I'm still as good as Lalleshvari. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Let me add this that official name of India is "Bharat" not Hindustan if im not mistaken. Guru Nanak Dev Ji used the word "Hindustan", for the first time ever in Indian Literature in a shabad, at the time of invasion of Babar... which is incorporated in SGGS as follows... "Khurasaan Khasmana Kiya, Hindustan Drayaa, Appae Dos n Daeyee karta jam kar mughal charadaya, Aaetee marr payee kurlanae tae kee dard n aayaa ||" So How can we disown this word ? Is their any reference to the word... prior to the mention in SGGS... ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission_Impossible Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Please take no offence... If Sikhi is true Dharma then why is it that Sikhs are alienated from the country of their origin ? Errr, because about 60% of it is in Pakistan and the rest 40% is in 'India'. I assume you are talking about Panjab, right? Or are you not Panjabi? Cant Sikhs be called Hindus (I mean natives of Hindustan.) ? Since when is a Panjabi a 'native of Hindustan'?, he/she is always a native of Panjab. :roll: Why are we agitated if we are called Hindus... Because we are not Hindus, that's why, otherwise what's wrong with being called Jews or even Muslim? :roll: by claiming ourselves to be original hindus don't you think sikhs would eliminate identity crisis they found themselves to be in... What planet are you living on? What identity crisis? Most Sikhs I have met are proud Panjabis? What are you? A Tamil or something? :roll: PS : By Hindus I mean natives of a place called Hindustan... OK, listen, I don't know where you learned your history but if you are a Panjabi, you have never been a 'native of Hindustan', such a place has never existed prior to 1947, and it is actually known as 'India'. This is a British invention, it has never been an actual country with one people or one race. If you are not a Panjabi then I apologise if I offended you. Kind Regards, MI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 there is no concept of nation in South Asia before the British so Bharat, Hindustan Aryavrasha Jambudvipa stand for a cultural ensemble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 This may offend a few but I will say it: Let me add this that official name of India is "Bharat" not Hindustan if im not mistaken. The official name of Punjab is "PUNJAB" not Khalistan !! well actually I think the official name was something else, but you can see where I was going with that.. Sikhism is not a form of hinduism, as there is no such thing as hinduism, but then again I would go as far as saying there is no such thing as SIKHISM. A Guru and his disciple is an intimate relationship which can only be understood between that disciple and his/her guru. A religion in the western sense which is now the de facto for all beliefs systems is to catagorize the beliefs into, goods bads rights wrongs.. etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just to clarify when I said Sikhism im refering to what we have today, Akaal Takht run by a committee, being the centre of Sikhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 :arrow: Guru Nanak Dev Ji used the word "Hindustan", for the first time ever in Indian Literature in a shabad, at the time of invasion of Babar... which is incorporated in SGGS as follows... "Khurasaan Khasmana Kiya, Hindustan Drayaa, Appae Dos n Daeyee karta jam kar mughal charadaya, Aaetee marr payee kurlanae tae kee dard n aayaa ||" So How can we disown this word ? Is their any reference to the word... prior to the mention in SGGS... ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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