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Ideal Singh

Is Sikhism "Reformed Hinduism" ?

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa. Wheguru ji ki fateh.

Someone please explain to me, what is a hindu?? Hindu is a nationality i.e hindustan. Forgive me if im wrong, but wasnt this a term given to the kaffurs i.e non muslims by mughal invaders??

Moving to my real point..someone please explain this to me..how can someone copy truth? Because by saying the gurus message was indeed a reformation of hinduism and islam, this is what we are implying. And to me, its absurd.

Truth is everlasting..always will be truth..always has been..and will forever be truth..hence the message of the almighty will always be truthful since it has been ordained by him. Hence the term prophets/messengers of god/saints,etc. They all see/feel the truth, and in their vision (something we have no experience of) they are revealed all the truth.

Sikhi is no different..the gurus came from the abode of god. Guru nanak dev ji continously stressed this point..he was infact ushering the words of god i.e god was speaking through him. He was but a tool to teach students wanting to seek the higher truth (without all the distractions in between, which other relegions focused on.)

Guru gobind singh ji further empahsized this by saying (in bichittra natak) that he was a son of god..sent to this earth to continue and preach the relegion of guru nanak dev ji. That he was in gods abode when he was asked to finish this path..this direct route to akal purkh. Also, guru ji made it clear that, unlike other messengers of god, he didnt let maya allow his message to be distracted hence sikhi was the full truth.

Infact a western philosipher has stated other faiths contain truth, but sikhism is the WHOLE truth. Hence sikhi overlaps with all faiths.

The fact guru ji was born into a hindu family..or that he was from india..or that his best companions were muslims, is completely irrelevant. Guru nanak dev ji and his sucessors were something beyond us mortals..if we call them hindus..or muslims..or even sikhs..we are gravely mistaken. They came to bring us out of the darkness i.e GU-RU..hence they are the teachers..we are but the mere students.

There are countless banis/shabads to reiterate this point im making..i suggest people read chopai sahib or dasam granth (for concise clarification) on this matter. To call sikhs hindus, or muslims, is an insult to the decades of work the gurus took to complete this message..and just illustrates how far from understanding sikhi we really are.

Bul chak maf karna ji

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ssa

there is no difference between a true sikh and a true hindu for that matter a true muslim. And these words can be used interchangeably but there are millions of differences between a gurmukh and manmukh. for that matter manmukh and muslim or manmukh and kafir.

its sad however not many sikhs would qualify as gurmukhs and even fewer muslims would qualify as muslims.

most of the time we are comparing manmukhs with kafir and the discussion has no end.

so it depends who are we comparing and what we are..

gurus united hindus and muslims and we divided to call ourselves sikhs without understanding the meaning of it. ( even subdivided as jathas )

analyse yourselve who is right us or our gurus.

Wjkk Wjkf

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Interesting topic. I have given this question a lot of thought. Some of you may disagree, but I truly believe that Sikhism is quite similar to Hinduism, but its a modernisation of it to help us through the dark age of kaljug.

Altho I agree that it is similar, that doesnt mean that i dont support 'Khalistan'or a State for sikhs!

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Gurfateh.

The gurus united hindus and muslims under the branch of sikhi.

However this path of sikhi would be one which makes no distinction among human beings on the basis of faith. And we dont; sikhism isnt a faith, IT IS a way of life/way of living/lifestyle.

However sikhi existing and being a seperate entity doesnt in any way mean we divide ourselves from humanity (unlike the hindus and muslims of the gurus time, and even today); far from it, sikhi brings us closer to gods creation and teaches us to love all devotees and beings of god.

'call him a relegious man, who makes no distinction amongst mankind'-guru nanak dev ji.

As for sikhi being an offshoot or reinforcement of hinduism; i disagree. Although there is alot of similarities; the message of the gurus was from sachkhand (gods abode); hence it was not derived from any faith; however i agree there is alot of similarities with christianity and hinduism, and even more so with islam.

Gurfateh

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http://hinduwebsite.com/hinduintrod1.htm

brother take a look at that site..scrolol down to the section called:

Is Hinduism a Religion ?

from the definition of CULT on Encarta.com

Hinduism seems to be more like a CUlt:?

bhull chukk maaf

http://hinduwebsite.com/hinduintrod1.htm

Definition of CULT:

Bhull chukk maaf

and forgive my limited knowledge :)

reading through the two definitions i can't find a single point in common... i don't know how u could ever say the two were the same. :?

i just started reading harjot oberoi's 'construction of religious boundaries'... very interesting book (if a little heavy - need a good dictionary to hand!) it seems we are more & more obsessed with the need to define ourselves these days... but more than that, define ourselves not on what we are/what we believe, but on what we are not. if indeed each individuals relation with akaal is just that... individual... then why is there any need to define any rules to spirituality?

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I still can't believe that the Sikhs can't say they originated from Hinduism. Guru Tegh Bahadur said: ' Hum Hindu Hain' which means we are Hindus. I am Sikh and I still consider myself to be real Hindu. I still go to gurdwara and Hindu Temple. It's true that idol worship is common in Hinduism but having learned Hinduism and Sikhism in depth since childhood, I object that Hinduism says the Bhakt should worship idol. There has never existed Hindu gods and goddesses in that pure religion. Hinduism believes in OMKAR (only one god) and Sikhs (as was propagated by Guru Nanak Dev Ji) in Ek-Omkar, which are the same. Don't forget that Guru Nanak DevJi and other Gurus came from Hindu families. So we were Hindu. I will be proud to say that I am a Hindu as well. It's really shocked that the Sikhs try to separate themselvesfrom their origination which I don't think I will. Some of my cousins are Hindus and they go to Gurdwara, chanting the name of Waheguru as well. Belief is important in life; otherwise you will be misguided. Referring to the article mentioned above some of you said we are real Hindus. Don't forget there are still loads of Kshatriya Hindus who are extremist (I mean against terrorism i.e. u know which religion I am talking about). There are more than 120 million of Kshatriya in the world. If the Sikhs came from Kshatriya Hindu families, so we form only 20 millions of the world population. What I am trying to say is that if today Punjab was separated from Bharat, we Sikhs population would be reduced. At least Hindus Kshatriya, equivalent to Sikhs, are here to protect us. Hindustan has a population of more than 1 billion people and one of the largest growing culture in the world. We form part of it.

Have you ever thought that nowadays the prime minister of Bharat is a Sikh. Are the HINDUS against that? No. They gave the Sikh as a former Hinduism 'tree' branch to ascend the throne. Some of you will argue that India is a democracy and he became prime minister on merit, which I object. Just spend some tike thinking thn you will know the fact behind this.

Some Hindus still worship idols because not everybody has time or the guts of gleaing through the puranas, vedas, shastras, etc... but as a sikh I went through all these. Sikhism is purely a branch of Hinduism. it's true that Guru Dev Ji said that ' Na koi Hindu N koi Muselman', but Guruji itself experienced the atrocities of the muslim(islam belief)on us as Hindus at that time. He, as a devotee of Waheguru, was assigned the task by the latter to create a new religion to protect our Hindu brothers and sisters from those atrocities.Who are we sikhs then? We are still Hindus, and it's false to say that those Ksatriya Hindus who are not sikhs nowadays to be blamed just because they did not follow sikhism at that time and thus are not sikhs. Still they are as powerful as us.

Have you heard of the Maratha...they are Hindus....they protect all communities (i refer to Hndu, sikh, jain, and buddhist) against Islam. Just go hrough the website and learn about the thousands of Muslim assassination in 1995 when they were trying to rule Mumbai and exert Islam influence on other religion. Hindus protect all of us. If punjab is separated, we are dead....and I MEAN IT. PUNJAB is part of Bharat and will remain indefinitely.

My parents have given me one advice, as a sikh, that I can call myself a Hindu without any disgrace because we were Hindus, I can marry a Hindu which I will so that my children will acquire the same knowlegde like me.

One more thing which really fascinated me is that I have a friend by the name of SHAH, jain family. When I ask him which religion he is from, he told me he is Hindu. Can uou imagine that guy, in spite being a Jain, claimed to be Hindu.

Anyway.... as an educated sikh youth, I am realistic.

Sat Sri Kal

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Sayana

We are from almost the same age, but still our views differ.

It's you who have to define a Hindu. To be honest I already expressed my feeling towards my Hindu bro and sis. Hindu definition is vast. We can refer a Hindu as a:

Tamil, Maratha, Telegu, Jain, Buddhist, Sikh or Hind (U).

My mum is Hindu and my dad is Sikh. I follow Sikhism and my girlfriend is Hindu. According to my research, a Hindu is someone who:

doesn't worship idol, which my mum does. Guru Nanak Dev Ji used to worship idol till the age of 12 until he started questioning the priests the importance of idol worship. The priests guide Guruji towards meditation which is the essence of Hinduism ( thereafter Sikhism). My mum is a tue Hindu since she meditates only and believe in only one god which is mentioned in Hinduism- Omkar or in Sikhism- Ek-Omkar.

A true Hindu should eb a kshatriya which 120 million indians are- i.e. true fighter. We sikh should be proud that we are real kshatriyas

(former kshatriya Hindus).

Sayana...how can you be so backwards towards the reality. I am not. It's true that different people have got different views. I already discussed this with my family who are keshadwaris (sikhs punjabi) and they al last agree with me. We sikhs are here, as Guruji said, to protect Hindus (inferior castes) from these f... terrorists. Right?

A Hindu is a sikh and a sikh is a Hindu.

To be honest, I will be proud to say that

I am a Hindu

I am a Sikh

I am a Jain

I am a Buddhist,

but I will never say that I am a muslim since we should never forget the assassination of our Gurus by these moghuls. Even today if you have a clue about life, they are still racist and try to convert everyone into their religion.

Hindus never convert people into their religion. They do mix with sikhs, Jains, Buddhists. They are really nice people. Can you imagine that some sikhs go to Hindu temple- although they don't worship, they still go. Some of my Hindu friends come with me to Gurdwara and they sit with me in the Langar and eat. This means respect. Have you got friends who are muslims go to Gurdwara?

Dr Manmohan Singh is nowadays the prime minister of India. Whatr does that represent? It's tue that Gandhi will be assassinated if she became prime minister, but she could have chosen a Hindu or Jain or whatever as prime minister, but still a first-ever Sikh prime minister was chosen.

Hindus, Jains, Buddhists are not against that reform in India, since a sikh prime minister means more threat to the anti- hindu/sikh/jain/buddhist than would be if the prime minister was Beeharry Vajpayee who is from vaishyas caste and not Hindu Kshatriya. And we all know that Hindu Kshatriya an never become prime minister otherwie pakistan and its brothers will be in trouble.

Referring to your statement, it seems you are anti-hindu. Am I right? Have you go Hindu friends in your life? What re your perceptions?

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Hinduism is neither a cult nor a religion. It is a construct established during the British by Orientalist scholars and the Smarta Brahmin elite and adopted via education by the emerging middle classes who started to impose their values on the rest of society.

see Richard King, Orientalism and Religion, London: Routledge, 1999.

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So everyone thats part of the Khalsa automatically achieve true salvation?

What about Bhagat Farid, Bhai Mardana, Bhagat Kabeer, Bhagat Ravidass, etc, etc?

And how much do YOU know about Christianity, 'Hinduism' and Islam? And I don't mean how much you've read off the Internet, or what your friend told you. I mean actual knowledge straight from the original texts themselves. For example, if someone said that they were an authority on Sikhi yet could not even read the Guru Granth Sahib would you believe them?

And what you say makes a mockery of what Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught.

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It's true we were real and they were fake, but try to think about one thing...we were hindus who create sikhism and then converted into sikhism- khalsa. So basically, not all among us converted into sikhism....Some kshatriya are called hindus who follow hinduism and sikhism. I have got a friend who is khatri origin...he goes to gurdwara and mandir, and when I ask him wot his religion, he said he is hindu

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beast wrote

What about Bhagat Farid, Bhai Mardana, Bhagat Kabeer, Bhagat Ravidass, etc, etc?

They also later on took birth as singhs or sikhs .

( the birth i referred here is different from those of common people . they don't feel the dukh of birth as we do )

And i am not trying to say that they did n't get mukti in their period . they got mukti .

but they just respected the maryada of God (the maryada of khalsa ) by coming on later .

for eg . the panj pyare were 5 bhagts

bhagat kabir ji , bhagat namdev ji . bhagat ravidas ji , dhanna jat ji and bhagat sadna ji .

they came as panj pyare

wjkk wjkf

bhul chuk maaf

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Wow, what's with the bashing of other religions? Sikhi is not the best; there is no best, all are just different paths to the same thing. We should respect all religions: Hinduism, Islam, etc..

Rikki those people that killed our Guru's may have been Muslim, but that doesn't mean they killed Guru's because they were Muslim; they did so because the were evil people. You cannot call all Muslims evil, or Islam for that matter.

Also I will say that many similarities exist between Sikhism and Hinduism, but they are different religions. Sikhi may have many ideas in common with Hinduism, but it is not reformed Hinduism.

That is about as valid as saying that Christianity is reformed Judaism, and that all Christian are Jews. As Jesus was Jewish, in fact Jesus even lived out his life as Jew, unlike our Guru's that did not live out as Hindus.

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Errr, because about 60% of it is in Pakistan and the rest 40% is in 'India'. I assume you are talking about Panjab, right? Or are you not Panjabi?

Since when is a Panjabi a 'native of Hindustan'?, he/she is always a native of Panjab. :roll:

Because we are not Hindus, that's why, otherwise what's wrong with being called Jews or even Muslim? :roll:

What planet are you living on? What identity crisis? Most Sikhs I have met are proud Panjabis? What are you? A Tamil or something? :roll:

OK, listen, I don't know where you learned your history but if you are a Panjabi, you have never been a 'native of Hindustan', such a place has never existed prior to 1947, and it is actually known as 'India'. This is a British invention, it has never been an actual country with one people or one race. If you are not a Panjabi then I apologise if I offended you.

Kind Regards,

MI

This is a great summary if we would like to saty on topic

MI has summed it up nicely.

I am a proud punjabi, and to further note that punjab existed before India

and is it true that guru nanak had written the word "hindustan" in one of his works in SGGS?

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If Sikhi is true Dharma then why is it that Sikhs are alienated from the country of their origin ?

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: Jab lag khalsa rahe neara, tab lag tej dio mai sara

i don't think sikhs are being neare(unique) if they say they r original hindus as a tactic to RSS, are we so afraid of the RSS, that we would say what we don't believe. And by "tej dio mai sara" i think that means raj

phul chuk maf

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just wondering, but do some of you sangh influenced guys troll the net looking for sikh forums so you can try to convince sikhs that they're actually hindus and must defend mother india against the evil muslim hordes, the same "hordes" who've been subject to systematic discrimination, wave after wave of propaganda and intimidation, and genocide?

btw, you're arguments are based on nothing. I mean, they're really based on nothing, like no bani, no accepted sakhis even, just a whole bunch of made up stuff...

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Yes looking back to november 1984 it was the muslims killing loads of sikhs wasnt it? what ? it was the brave kashtriya hindus that were ganging up 20 to a man to stab him? the brave kashtriya that defended hindustan by killing children?

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I believe sikhi is 'deformed hinduism'. My reason for that is that I see hinduism as a construct created to appropriate a socio-religio-cultural title single banner for a pantheon of beliefs, people and practices....so why is sikhi a deformed hinduism...well in a positive sense, sikhi would have been a desconstruction of this, but in a negative sense...our punjabayat based panthic banner is a deformed version of this.

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Guest

All Indic religions have same basic philosophies and hence they are similar in beliefs but differ in practice. Hence I can safely say that we all are same Philosophically {Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism & Jainism - They all have similar philosophies except the fact that in all of them a philosophy becomes core of the religion & other philosophies take the back seat.}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_religions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_philosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_Sikhism

I must add current Hindu tradition is completely wrong when you check it with Hindu Philosophy which is what Guru Nanakji did & see his actions of in terms of Nyaya philosohy of Indian tradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_philosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyaya

Wahe Guru ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh

Proud rationalist.

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