An Invitation to Islaam and Tawheed

[Tawheed]

Having frequented your forum for a while, I have decided to post an invitation to the Religion of Truth - al-Islaam, of which Allaah says:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) will hate (it)."

[9:33][/align:2ce0b59c18]

In a way that befits the Truth:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom, and a good mode of preaching, and debate with them in a way that is best.â€

[16:125][/align:2ce0b59c18]

And since this is the Truth then, insha’allaah (God-Willing), it will overwhelm falsehood, since this is the nature of Truth:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“And say: "Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Lo! Falsehood is ever bound to vanish.â€

[17:81]

“Nay, We fling (send down) the truth against the falsehood (disbelief), so it destroys it, and behold, it (falsehood) is vanished.

And woe to you for that (lie) which you ascribe (to Us) (against Allaah).â€

[21:18]

“And no example or similitude do they bring (to oppose or to find fault in you or in this Qur'ân),

but We reveal to you the truth (against that similitude or example), and the better explanation thereof.â€

[25:33][/align:2ce0b59c18]

The Truth that was conveyed by all the Prophets and Messengers to all people from the very first Prophet (Adam - ‘alayhi salam) to the very final one (Muhammad - sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) with whom revelation ceased:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“And verily, We have sent among every nation a Messenger (ordering):

"Worship Allaah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taaghoot (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taaghoot besides Allaah)."â€

[16:36]

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad) but We inspired him (to say): None has the right to be worshipped but I (Allaah), so worship Me (Alone and none else).â€

[21:25][/align:2ce0b59c18]

What was their call? It was to the true worship of Allaah, known as Tawheed, the purest worship of the Creator as revealed by Him, which means: Realising and Maintaining of Allaah’s Oneness/ Unity in all of mans actions which directly or indirectly relate to Him (Allaah). This consists of three categories:

Tahweed ar-Ruboobiyyah – Unity of Allaah’s Lordship That He is the sole creator and sustainer of everything that exists.

Tawheed al-‘Ibaadah – Unity of Allaah’s Worship Single out Allaah for ALL forms of worship and not to associate any deities in His worship.

Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat – Unity of Allaah’s Names and Attributes.

And we were created to worship Him upon Tawheed:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“And I have not created Jinn and humankind except to worship Me. I do not seek any provision from them, nor that I ask that they feed Me.

Truly Allaah is the All-Provider (ar-Razaaq), the owner of absolute Power/ Might (thul Quwaatil Mateen).â€

[51:56-8][/align:2ce0b59c18]

And to disassociate ourselves from the opposite of Tawheed – Ash-Shirk, the greatest crime against Allaah, so great that He will never forgive those who commit it and die upon it having not repented:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Truly Allaah will not forgive Shirk, but He shall forgive whatsoever is lesser than that to whomsoever He willsâ€

[4:48]

“And indeed it has been revealed to you just as it was to those before you:

‘If you commit Shirk, surely (all) your deeds will be negated and you will be from amongst the losers’â€

[39:65][/align:2ce0b59c18]

Since they follow falsehood and have no proofs and no convincing arguments for this false worship and contrived notion of Allaah:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“And he who invokes along with Allaah any other god, has no proof for it, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely the disbelievers will never be successful.â€

[23:117]

“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged), you and your fathers, for which Allaah has sent down no authority.

The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him, that is the (true) straight religion, but most of mankind know not.â€

[12:40]

“When it is said to them: "Follow what Allaah has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our forefathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their forefathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?â€

[2:170][/align:2ce0b59c18]

And they are in a state of delusion:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Truly the disbelievers are in nothing but delusion.â€

[67:20][/align:2ce0b59c18]

Thinking they follow the truth when in reality they follow nothing but their own desires in opposition to the guidance from their Lord:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Have you seen him who has taken his vain desires as his god, and Allaah knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him after Allaah? Will you not then remember?â€

[45:23][/align:2ce0b59c18]

And these people who invent worship for Allaah and say this is from Him when in reality it is not are worse than the animals since the animals at least are doing what they were created to do. However, they have not only turned away from His worship, thereby denying the very purpose of their existence, but have invented lies against their Lord deluding themselves into thinking they are upon the truth when they are not:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Or do you think that most of them hear or understand?

They are only like cattle; nay, they are even farther astray from the Path. (i.e. even worst than cattle).â€

[25:44][/align:2ce0b59c18]

Having taken all of the above into account, we must all agree, whether we are Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Christian or Jew, we all believe in Allaah and claim to have the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth. However, only one religion is the religion of Truth.

We all agree that our purpose in life is to worship our Creator. Our Creator, the all-Just, the one who has the perfect attribute of Justice, cannot be worshipped except upon the one true religion. This is easily established when we realise that ALL religions, who claim to be the religion of Truth, not only have a unique particularised form of worship, but more importantly, a very specific and defined understanding of the Creator. The Christians believe in a Triune nature of God claiming that God came down in the form of a human being. We Muslims believe that it is not befitting the majesty of the Creator, the absolute perfect, to come down as a human and we believe that He is separate and distinct from His creation. And you Sikhs believe that God is everywhere and in everything (Pantheism) and believe, although not all, that He too manifested Himself as a human, i.e. Gurus.

Since worship is the reason for our existence, we cannot worship Allaah without having the correct understanding of our Creator. Indeed, two religions whose notion of god is antithetical, contradictory to one another, cannot both be the religion of Truth. There can only ever be one. Hence, either Islaam’s understanding of Allaah is correct or Sikhism’s. Both religion’s belief and understanding of God is antithetical, thus, they cannot both be absolute truth.

In Islaam, Allaah has ordered us to have knowledge of Tawheed:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“Have knowledge of Laa ilaaha illallaah – None has the right to be worshipped in truth except Allaah…â€

[47:19][/align:2ce0b59c18]

Laa ilaaha illallaah is the declaration of faith and the first and most important pillar of Islaam. - it is Tawheed. And since Tawheed is an all-encompassing understanding of Allaah, we claim that He cannot be understood correctly and rationally except upon affirming Laa ilaaha illallaah. Without the precious knowledge of this declaration, a person will not only have an incomplete and incorrect understanding of his Creator, but also a rationally impaired one, which will lead onto contradictions and inconsistencies concerning Him.

And this can easily be demonstrated when we compare the revelation of Tawheed to all the errant notions concerning God stemming from the plethora of extant religions.

Hence, it is my intention bi ithnillahi ta’aalah (by the permission of Allaah) to compare the Tawheed of Allaah to the Pantheistic notion propounded and followed by Sikhism. The reason I am opening up this line of discussion, which insha’allaah (God-Willing) I pray will be a fruitful one where each side displays good conduct, is because firstly and foremost – Allaah, our Creator is the most important part of our lives. If the Truth is to be found or lost, indeed it will be with our understanding, or lack of, concerning our Creator, since if we have a deficient understanding and it is shown to be so then this is direct proof that the religion we follow, which claims to be revelation from God, is deficient and false.

I also wish to emphasise that it is not my intention to delve into this discussion to create controversy, nor to be discourteous or ill-mannered towards anyone since Allaah has ordered the Muslims not to curse the gods of the disbelievers, no matter how absurd or offensive it may be:

[align=center:2ce0b59c18]“And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge.

Thus We have made fair­seeming to each people its own doings;

then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.â€

[6:108][/align:2ce0b59c18]

Although I understand you all have your beliefs, it will not dissuade me from calling a spade-a-spade, since I too have my own beliefs and convictions and will not compromise when needing to express falsehood as falsehood. Having said that, I have been commanded by Allaah to call to Islaam with a good mode of preaching and debate in the ways that are best and that is what I intend to do, insha’allaah.

I also must say that I do not know very much about Sikhism except for what I have read on your Forum from time to time and the minimal amount of research I have done, therefore, as one of your members has it as his signature: Bhool chook maaf. If I do err in anything concerning your religion or jump to an abrupt conclusion then please correct me, I’m always open to correction.

[Ideal Singh]

Having taken all of the above into account, we must all agree, whether we are Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Christian or Jew, we all believe in Allaah and claim to have the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth. However, only one religion is the religion of Truth.

We all agree that our purpose in life is to worship our Creator. Our Creator, the all-Just, the one who has the perfect attribute of Justice, cannot be worshipped except upon the one true religion. This is easily established when we realise that ALL religions, who claim to be the religion of Truth, not only have a unique particularised form of worship, but more importantly, a very specific and defined understanding of the Creator. The Christians believe in a Triune nature of God claiming that God came down in the form of a human being. We Muslims believe that it is not befitting the majesty of the Creator, the absolute perfect, to come down as a human and we believe that He is separate and distinct from His creation. And you Sikhs believe that God is everywhere and in everything (Pantheism) and believe, although not all, that He too manifested Himself as a human, i.e. Gurus.

Since worship is the reason for our existence, we cannot worship Allaah without having the correct understanding of our Creator. Indeed, two religions whose notion of god is antithetical, contradictory to one another, cannot both be the religion of Truth. There can only ever be one. Hence, either Islaam’s understanding of Allaah is correct or Sikhism’s. Both religion’s belief and understanding of God is antithetical, thus, they cannot both be absolute truth.

Welcome Tawheed...

:arrow: Could you tell me what is an ultimate Truth ?

:arrow: Sikhism does not make any of such chidish claims of being the only way/path. Is it mentioned anywhere... Please Quote...

:arrow: Sikhism expects humans to be good human beings... respect and defend other people's faiths and beliefs and respect other's freedom of Spirit as well as defend our own. There are numerous examples... but later... Seems pretty rationale theory to me...

:arrow: Sikhism has no uneducated brutal concepts of non-believers etc... who are you or me to decide that who is who ? Sikhism says each human is born to one Creator (Almighty), so no discrimination. Isn't this True that all mankind is One, dear Tawheed, then how could you differentiate between them...

:arrow: Sikhism does not force anyone to convert... Ever heard of Sikh missionaries forcing the issue... I have never heard...

:arrow: Ever heard of the notion Gender Equality... Sikh philosophy propounds Gender equality... no discrimination what so ever. Islaam, I think, treats Women to be 1/4th of Men... as one man can marry four at a time and even seven under special circumstances. How can a Religion which discriminates be an absolute Truth ?

:arrow: How can such a thinking be acceptable to your brand of Allah. I wonder...

...will not compromise when needing to express falsehood as falsehood.

Do you mind explaining the above, espeacilly, when you confess that you do not know anything about Sikh faiths and beliefs... How did you conclude that Sikhism propounds pantheism?

We can easily determince what is Truth or Falsehood...

Peace.

Chardee Kalaa...

[mehtab]

I also must say that I do not know very much about Sikhism except for what I have read on your Forum from time to time

Mod's Note: Please leave your humor aside. He is not here to accept khalsa way of life. Lets respect each other dharma's

Malang's note : Please do not edit my posts if they are not senseless. We have as much right to invite him as much as he has to do the same.

[Guest]

Welcome to Sikhawareness Tawheed. Can you firstly define Pantheism?

[BabbarSher]

Dear Tawheed:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Welcome to our forum.

It is a pleasure to know that you are open to discussion , which might ultimately lead you to change the basic concepts regarding your belief.

Might we assume that if the logical conclusion is for your current hypothesis to be wrong, that Tawheed would in future happily accept to be a sikh.

It is also welcome to note that you accept that be it any religion all of them belive in God.

What then may I ask you is the defination of Disbeliever ? A Kafir ?

Is he/she someone who does not belive in one God, or is he/she someone who does not believe in the Prophet Mohammed.

Who then is central to Islam ? Is it the Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed or is it God.

If it is God, then the discussion ends, because by your very statement, every religion belives in God.....so the need of conversion to a "superior" faith is not required. If on the other hand, the question is of the acceptance of Prophet Mohammed, then the whole of Islam stands on a shaky base...........for isnt the meaning of Islam ----complete submission to God NOT to Prophet Mohammed !!!!????

Anyway, :

Firstly, you must learn about oure religion before commenting upon it. The very basis of your post is 'Pantehsim' - And you Sikhs believe that God is everywhere and in everything (Pantheism) and believe, although not all, that He too manifested Himself as a human, i.e. Gurus.

I advise you to read the Mulmantar - the first page of our current and eternal Guru Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

The qualities of God therein include - Ajooni (one who does not come into joons - one who does not take birth or die). This single word alone is an elaborate answer to your claims, that we believe in God having manifest himself in the Gurus.

What we do belive in is that, by HIS grace alone, the qualities of the person undergo such a change, that the human qualities change to Godly qualities, so that no one can distinguish between God and his saints.

This is not a statment of'ego', yet of Love and is attributed to God. Please remember that the central theme of sikhi is 'Gurprasad' - Grace of Master (God and Guru)

This is exactly what sikhism is - Sikh (disciple) and Guru (Master).

The sikhs belive that God is the life force pervading in the Universe, throughout it.

God does not take birth, but his life force is present in all. It is because of God that all come into being.

But this does not mean that you have to start worshipping the stones, the river, the water. They are the creations of God. Sikhism says that you have to Love/worship the creator and not the creation.

I think that your concepts about sikhism are much misplaced, and you need to get some authentic information. For e.g. you quote from Quraan:

"And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge.

Thus We have made fairseeming to each people its own doings;

then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.â€

"

The quote is not applicable to sikhs at all. And by your own statement, not applicable to any other religion as well.

How did you conclude that the sikhs belive in something other than Ek onkaar, One God, Waheguru, Ram, Allah ? This again is pointer to my first question. According to this quote then, the disbeliever is a person who does NOT belive in one God. (Please note that the Quraan does not make a refernce to the belief in Prophet Mohammed).

You would like to call a spade a spade and falsehood a falsehood. That is so very interesting for in fact I am of the same opinion.

I really find it very hard to digest that physical concepts of heaven and hell, the 'sharik' to God - his angels (assistants) and devils, the concept of judegement day, the concept of creation of Universe etc. etc.

I hope you would not mind, if we took the liberty of calling 'a spade a spade' ourselves. HOWEVER I have seen that muslims start shying away from these things, as do they shy away from the Stanic Verses episode involving Prophet Mohammed.

Interesting that wherever our Gurus went (Baghdad), the muslim saints recognised them as prophets, and fell to their feet. And personally I think the muslims saints of earlier days had a much better understanding than the normal muslims have.

You are very welcome to discuss about our belief, but we expect that you will be equally open about discussing your beliefs.

Like our Gurus advise, the muslims of early days, so is our advise to you, delve into your religion, try to find out the meaning of ur religion on a spirtual front, find God, Love God, become one with him, proclaim the supremacy of God, rather than the supremacy of Prophet Mohammed.

To quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

Page 140

Shalok, First Mehl:

Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast.

In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor.

Page 141

First Mehl:

There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names.

Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.

Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord.

Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim.

Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood.

Akal Sahai,

Babbar Sher

[Mr §ingh]

Welcome to the board Tahweed :welcome:

honestly don't you find it rediculous how you begin to deny Sikhism, before knowing much about it ?

kind regards,

[Tawheed]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam 'alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba'ad

I see that Red-Herrings are flying about already.

Firstly, thank you Saihajleen for your kind welcome. Alas, the same cannot be said about the first two replies, khair.

Secondly, I didn’t say I do not know anything about Sikhism. I said I know very little but am willing to learn and rectify mistakes that may occur as a result of my lack of knowledge, as is the case with the Sikhs when they delve into Islaam – they make mistakes.

Could you tell me what is an ultimate Truth ?

“Truly this is a strange thing.†[al-Qur’an al-Kareem 38:5]

That is, the question is very strange. The answer I thought was quote obvious: Allaah

Sikhism does not make any of such chidish claims of being the only way/path. Is it mentioned anywhere... Please Quote...

Would you like to quote for me where I said that Sikhism claims to be the only way/ path? I said:

…only one religion is the religion of Truth.

...Hence, either Islaam’s understanding of Allaah is correct or Sikhism’s. Both religion’s belief and understanding of God is antithetical, thus, they cannot both be absolute truth

Sikhism has no uneducated brutal concepts of non-believers etc... who are you or me to decide that who is who ?

I never said humans should decide. Let us quote scripture and let al-Haqq (Allaah) decide. “Say: ‘Truth has come and falsehood and vanished. Lo! Falsehood is ever bound to vanish’.†[17:81]

Sikhism says each human is born to one Creator (Almighty), so no discrimination. Isn't this True that all mankind is One, dear Tawheed, then how could you differentiate between them

Of course! From a religious perspective. Is the atheist, the one who denies the existence of God equal to the one who affirms and worships Him correctly? Is the Hindu lingum worshipper equal to the monotheist of al-Islaam? Is the Pagan Wikka equal to the Sikh? Are they all equal in their worship and understandiong of Allaah?

Hence, mankind is all one in the sense that they all originate from one source, i.e. Allaah created them. However, if you mean to say they are equal spiritually and in their worship of God, then there is a differentiation here as clear as the differentiation between the colours black and white.

[align=center:da43088de1]“ Say (O Muhammad ): "Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?" Say: "(It is) Allaah." Say: "Have you then taken (for worship) Auliyaa' (protectors, etc.) other than Him, which, even for themselves, have neither benefit nor hurt?" Say: "Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light? Or do they assign to Allaah partners who created the like of His creation, so that the creation (which they made and His creation) seemed alike to them?" Say: "Allaah is the Creator of all things, He is the One, the Irresistible. â€

[13:16][/align:da43088de1]

The question is: We recognise this obvious differentiation and we also must, by necessity, say that one is correct and the other is incorrect. If we acknowledge this, then it is more appropriate, if Allaah is all-Just, that He too recognise this difference and establish it. Is this not acknowledged in Sikhism, or is the pagan idol worshipper deemed as being equal to the Sikh by God?

[align=center:da43088de1]"And not equal are the blind and those who see, nor are (equal) those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism), and do righteous good deeds, and those who do evil. Little do you remember!"

[40:58][/align:da43088de1]

How can a Religion which discriminates be an absolute Truth ?

If it is determined that a religion is divinely revealed from the all-Wise (al-Hakeem), the all-Knowledgeable (al-‘Aleem), then it stands to reason that the laws, commandments, permissibility’s, prohibitions, etc. have been established by the Creator. This is why it is imperative for us to speak about Allaah and Waheguru and not forward red-herrings. As for your assertion, then I would say that Islaam does not discriminate, but then I would have to ask you, what do you mean by: discrimination?

You stated above: “Sikhism says each human is born to one Creator (Almighty), so no discrimination. Isn't this True that all mankind is One, dear Tawheed, then how could you differentiate between them.†I believe I have established that there are differentiations in spirituality and worship. If you, therefore, mean by discrimination – differentiation, then again there is a natural differentiation between man and woman.

However, this is besides the point. We could speak about the intricacies of Gender Equality and whether this is truly viable or just a pipe dream, which does not accord with reality, until we are blue in the face. It does not answer the most important question of all: Is our understanding of God true or false? If it is false then our worship and our religion is false. If this is the case then our well-being in this life and the hereafter is in jeopardy. So let us talk about the most important thing – God, our creed, our understanding of Him.

Can you firstly define Pantheism?

Good question Saihajleen, let us talk about god firstly and foremost.

:

Main Entry: pan·the·ism

Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m

Function: noun

Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god

1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe

Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary:

pantheism

noun

belief in many or all gods, or the belief that God exists in and is the same as all things, animals and people within the universe

It has two definitions, but the one that is applicable and most common is that God is everywhere and in everything - what I believe you refer to as Sargun.

Incidentally, just saw two new replies. Thank you for the kind welcome. I'll be adding a post soon concerning the understanding of Tawheed in comparison to what I see as the pantheistic notion of Sikhism and insha'allaah, barring any red-herrings, we can have a good coherent discussion

[mehtab]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

1st of all, if u are here to learn, then u are welcome

2ndly, try researching here:

http://www.allaboutsikhs.com

or

http://whyichosesikhism.com

My simple question to u is that if islam is the complete truth, why was Sikhi there? Why God sent Guru Nanak Dev Jee?

here is what i gotta say

(1) The Quran was revealed to Mohammad Sahib by an angel called Gabriel (jibraaeel). Sri Guru Granth Sahib came directly from WAHEGURU to our Gurus. No middle man. Gurus were in direct communion with WAHEGURU.

(2) Quran was not written by Mohammad Sahib. i don't know if it was written after him or during his lifetime, but it was not written by him. I think it was a person referred to as Huzoor Usman. Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written by Gurus themselves, in their lifetimes. Not after them by someone else.

(3) Mohammad Sahib was not educated, as he could not read/write. Guru Gobind Singh was a scholar of 7 languages, including arabic (sanskrit, gurmukhi, brajbhasha, devanagri, persian, turkish, arabic).

(4) non-muslims are called kafirs, and considered evil. Sikhi loves and respects all irrespective of any manmade differences.

mr tawheed, i was myself gonna convert to islam at the age of 15. with all due respect to your religion, i m happy and thankful that i did not. in your definition i m destined for hell, but if hell is what my SatGuru jee wants for me, then i can't change it.

i am born to hindu parents and was raised 18 years in the middle east. i know both Hinduism and Islam inside out. After september 11 we saw tons of muslims talking about how Islam was a religion of peace. i kept silent and smiled coz i knew exactly what was in their mind as they said that. No Sikh can ever forget how 2 of our Gurus and 2 little sons of Guru Gobind Singh were martyred, not to forget thousands others, all in the name of religion. Which religion? u know what i m talking about

and ya, the pakistani dude who tried to convert me was right about one thing. He said "u will find the truth one day"...guess what, WaheGuru blessed me with Sikhi...so in a way i found it, but i wanna say that He blessed me with it.

Once again, u are MORE than welcome to join the Khalsa, were u will be told to love all, no matter who they are and what religion (no matter how "bad") they follow. To respect women as equal and not look on them as slaves. To follow a religion out of love for God rather than fear. To inspire others to recite His Name rather than forcing your beliefs down their throat. And you will be more than fortunate to be called a Sikh of Guru Tegh Bahadur, who unlike anyone ever born before or after Him, sacrificed His life for a totally different religion of Hinduism. And yes mr tawheed, then u will say that u were blessed.

good luck

[Guest]

Welcome Tawheed to the Forum,

I hope you will have a good time here. We try to keep it as much decent as possible, when it comes to debate.

Anything you need or you find offensive please pm me or other moderators. We will look into it.

Hope you have a good time

[Guest]

Having taken all of the above into account, we must all agree, whether we are Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Christian or Jew, we all believe in Allaah and claim to have the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth. However, only one religion is the religion of Truth.

…only one religion is the religion of Truth.

...Hence, either Islaam’s understanding of Allaah is correct or Sikhism’s. Both religion’s belief and understanding of God is antithetical, thus, they cannot both be absolute truth

So, according to you either Islaam is true or Sikhi. Why cant both be true?

I alwyas try to simplify things so i can understand them, the way to do is to look for examples around us.

forexample , take two buses, who are going to the same town / destination.

Do they have to follow the same route? one might go the long way the other the short. One might have more passengers than the other. One might break down and some passengers will get leave. One might charge more than the other.

Same thing is with religion. They are trying to lead us passengers to the same desitation. Each have their own way of doing it.

Sikhism has no uneducated brutal concepts of non-believers etc... who are you or me to decide that who is who ?

I never said humans should decide. Let us quote scripture and let al-Haqq (Allaah) decide. “Say: ‘Truth has come and falsehood and vanished. Lo! Falsehood is ever bound to vanish’.†[17:81]

I dont understand that quote and how it answers the asked question, can you please explain?

Sikhi says "avale allah noor upaiya, kudrat de sabh bande, ek noor te sabh jaag upjiya, kaun bhalle ko mande"

"With god's grace everyone is humans are created"

"Everyone is made from god's divine light, so who is to say one is bad and other is good"

Can the members only ask one question at a time to mr tawheed. But can answer his questions as many as they want. :? dont bombard the poor chap with so much questions.

[tSingh]

Dear Tawheed,

I hope you don't feel it impertinent if I ask of you to introduce yourself a little more...the term 'Islaam' is a little vague. Where do your sympathies lie; form of Sunni, Shia, wahabi, tasuwwuf, etc. What fiqh, hadith, tafsir, etc. This will help us to contextualise what you are saying and save time, although I'm sure it will come out in the wash anyway!

Thank you in advance

[Tawheed]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Just to answer some of your points BabbarSher (love the name by the way).

Might we assume that if the logical conclusion is for your current hypothesis to be wrong, that Tawheed would in future happily accept to be a sikh.

As we say: “QadarAllaah wa maa shaa fa-al†– Allaah has Decreed and whatever He Wills will occur

What then may I ask you is the defination of Disbeliever ? A Kafir ? Is he/she someone who does not belive in one God, or is he/she someone who does not believe in the Prophet Mohammed.

Succinctly put, the final revelation was to Muhammad (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam). With him revelation ceased and Islaam was perfected:

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion.â€

[5:3][/align:fec9be5a97]

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€Truly, the (only) religion with Allaah is Islaam. â€

[3:19][/align:fec9be5a97]

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.â€

[3:85][/align:fec9be5a97]

Since the religion is perfected, there is nothing that can succeed it otherwise it would not have been classed as ‘perfect’ in the first place. Therefore, Islaam is the only religion acceptable to Allaah according to these clear verses.

The Messenger of Allah (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) said:

Who then is central to Islam ? Is it the Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed or is it God.

If we take the Shahaadatayn – The Dual Declaration of Faith, the very foundation of Islaam and the first pillar, it is the answer to your question: “I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped accept Allaah and I bear witness that Muhammad is the slave and Messenger of Allaah.†And to affirm that He is the final Messenger and the Qur’an is the Final revelation:

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the seal (end) of the Prophets. And Allaah is Ever All­Aware of everything.â€

[33:40][/align:fec9be5a97]

[align=center:fec9be5a97]†And who believe in (the Qur'ân and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad) and in [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.). They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful.â€

[2:4-5][/align:fec9be5a97]

And from this we learn that Allaah has said that true guidance are for those who believe in the Qur’an and the previous revelations without the mention of any revelation, thus any Prophet, to come thereafter.

Therefore, to follow Prophet Muhammad (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) is following Allaah and to deny him is denying Allaah, since Allaah says:

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€Say (O Muhammad): 'If you truly love Allaah then follow me, Allaah in turn will love you and forgive you your sins for Allaah is Oft-Forgiving Most-Merciful.â€

[3:31][/align:fec9be5a97]

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€O you who believe (Muslims)! Obey Allaah and obey His Messenger…â€

[4:59 (Unconditional statement to obey Prophet Muhammad)][/align:fec9be5a97]

[align=center:fec9be5a97]â€He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allaah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad ) as a watcher over them.â€

[4:80][/align:fec9be5a97]

In Islaam there is a clear condition for loving Allaah and that is to obey Muhammad (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam), only then will Allaah love you since obeying Allaah is to obey the Prophet and vice-versa.

If it is God, then the discussion ends, because by your very statement, every religion belives in God.....so the need of conversion to a "superior" faith is not required. If on the other hand, the question is of the acceptance of Prophet Mohammed, then the whole of Islam stands on a shaky base...........for isnt the meaning of Islam ----complete submission to God NOT to Prophet Mohammed !!!!????

Good, therefore, belief is either praiseworthy or blameworthy. Everyone believes in God, but the question is: How?

This ‘how’ does not exclude the Muslims. They too must obey the Prophet (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) and those who disobey him (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) disobey Allaah and will be held accountable in the Hereafter, i.e. on the Day of Judgment.

So let me define Islaam:

As I’ve established, part of submitting to Allaah is to obey Him by following the Prophet (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam). It should be noted, however, that this does not mean obeying the Prophet (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) is worshipping him. Obeying the Prophet (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) means obeying Allaah’s commandments and this, therefore, is worship of Allaah and a submission to His commandments.

As for your explanations concerning my assertions that Sikhism is a pantheistic religion and that God manifested Himself in the Guru’s then what I will do, insha’allaah, is open up a new thread where I’ll delineate the concept and principles of Tawheed to you and then quote some aspects about Sikhism that I’ve come across. In doing so, I can entertain the points you have raised and give you the opportunity to correct what you deem to be mistakes on my part. Rest assured I will come back to your points. As for now, I hope I have answered your questions sufficiently.

[mehtab]

and how about answering my questions ?

or u got no answers?

[BabbarSher]

Waheugur Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thank you for the compliments Tawheed.

However your answers are not satisfactory, simply because you have quoted the Quran as the source of all your answers. Simply put I dont believe in the Quran.

Remember you are trying to convert a person who does not belive in your religion, so to quote from your religion/text would not be appropriate. Logic/Generalisations would be better.

I belive you have also missed out on some very important and may be touchy issues in my post. I will write in detail about what you have missed.

Why I dont, believe in Quran I will answer in detail citing the many fallacies, which do not make it the qualify to be the complete word of God.

I will post in detail the responses to your questions tommorrow.

Akal Sahai,

Babbar Sher

[Tawheed]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Very quickly

Response to Rochak Malang

My simple question to u is that if islam is the complete truth, why was Sikhi there? Why God sent Guru Nanak Dev Jee?

That's a fallacy known as "begging the question". This is why we are discussing my friend, did Allaah really send Guru Nanak Dev Jee?

As for the 4 points you have raised then they are interesting but not conclusive proofs that Sikhism is true and established by God.

Your first point:

So, if I understand your rationale, if it is a case of a religion being true based upon the mode of transmission then Christianity have the best claim of all: God Himself came down to the Earth requiring no messengers or communion. Will you now concede and convert to Christianity? No! The above is not conclusive proof.

Your second point:

The Mormons claim that their book came from heaven without being written down. Does this mean Mormonism’s brand of Christianity is the religion of Truth? No!

I hope you see the flaw in the points you have raised.

And thank you for your invitation.

Response to Amardeep Singh

So, according to you either Islaam is true or Sikhi. Why cant both be true?

As I said they have a diametrically opposed (opposite) concept of God. How can they both be true? Let me establish the universal law of non-Contradiction:

If you understand this law you will see the flaw in your analogy.

Let us take the very foundations of our respective religions. We as Muslims negate the Nirgun/Sargun notion but you affirm it. Can they both be true? No. We say that revelation ceased with Muhammad (‘alayhi salaatu wa salaam) but you negate this. Can they both be true? No. And the list goes on.

So it is impossible for us to accept both as truth unless we wish to affirm contradictions. And this is the basis of most religions, especially Islaam: The very core concept and understanding of God is antithetical and contradictory to other religions so unless God wants us to think irrationally and accept contradictions, we cannot affirm Islaam and Sikhism as both being true.

Response to jtSingh

I am a Muslim who follows the Qur’an and the Sunnah and this will suffice for now.

[Tawheed]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Response to Babbarsher

You asked me about specific points pertaining to Islaam, i.e. about the belief in Allaah, about following the Prophet and his role in Islaam, etc. When you ask me to clarify what Islaam teaches I refer to the sources. I would expect you to do the same when I ask you about Sikhism. Perhaps it is different for you but when someone asks about Islaam the first source we turn to is the Qur’an and the Prophetic Sunnah (authentic tradition). When ones wants to learn about Shakespeare I presume one would turn to the source itself!

As I explained, the clarification you put forth for Sikhism, I will deal with appropriately when I open up a thread to discuss the concept of God. I did assure you that I would come back to them. Have patience and we’ll discuss them soon, insha’allaah

[tSingh]

My friend, this is very important indeed!

For example, using your own criteria an Ismaili would state also that they follow the Qur'an and Sunnah, are also Muslim, yet maybe even you yourself may refuse to accept them as Muslim. Can you see my point?

Surely this is a precursor to any informed discussion, that you should at least know something of who you are discussing with?

please let us know more!

[Guest Javanmard]

Dear Tawheed

1.you call yourself a Muslim right? Could you please answer this simple question: who was the successor to the Prophet (pbuh)?

2. Your premisse is that there is only ONE true religion and you base this on your own interpretation of your scriptural authority which I as a SIkh am not obliged to take into account as I have my own revealed text.

3. Your argument about Guru Nanak that he might not have been sent by God is a fallacy. You are shooting yourself in the leg because this argument could be applied to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) as well which is actually as blasphemous thought.

4. Is Din Illahi the same as the historical Islam?

5. You say that Islam and SIkhi have two opposed concepts of God! This absolute non-sense because:

a. this depends if you follow wahdat al wjud or wahdat al shuhud

b. Sikhi does NOT limit God to a concept as this is a form of shirk!

6. The fact that you deny you affiliation does not fit into the rules of a proper debate!

[Tawheed]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Response to jtSingh

Good point jtSingh. I am a Sunni Muslim who refers everything concerning Islaam back to the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the understanding of the Early Pious Predecessors, i.e. the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah ('alayhi salaatu wa salaam). This will suffice for now.

Response to lalleshvari

I am here to discuss the concept and understanding of God between Islaam and Sikhism. Once we have done that, then I'll entertain other questions. I do not wish to divert from the subject at hand. I wish to discuss how Sikh's understand pantheism (Nirgun/Sargun) in comparison to the Tawheed of al-Islaam. As I said, I'm in the process of preparing a discussion which I'll post up soon.

Once we've dealt with that, we can move on to other topics, insha'allaah.

[mehtab]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

please do not give examples from christianity or mormonism. i m questioning islam over here. care to answer that first.

i m not begging an answer...i want an answer if u have one...if u dont, its perfectly dignified to admit so and move on.

As for the 4 points you have raised then they are interesting but not conclusive proofs that Sikhism is true and established by God.

i am not proving anything...i m just putting u questions which u have not answered.

So, if I understand your rationale, if it is a case of a religion being true based upon the mode of transmission then Christianity have the best claim of all: God Himself came down to the Earth requiring no messengers or communion

i m sure both Sikhs and Muslims regard jesus christ as a great messenger of God. There are some christians who actually think he was God, but both Sikhs and Muslims deny it to be so. Sikhs believe Waheguru to be Ajooni, meaning never born. So since we both do not believe it to be the case, this example is not applicable.

The Mormons claim that their book came from heaven without being written down. Does this mean Mormonism’s brand of Christianity is the religion of Truth?

Again u are quoting something we both don't believe in. Why even bother to go there? i have been in the Bible belt of the USA for 5 n half years. These mormons came to my place and talked to me for an hour and a half. Their biggest problem is that they will go on and on about their beliefs and not once ask u what u believe in. They cannot debate and so avoid questions, rather go on talking. Have u met mormons in real life?

you are more than welcome to find flaws in my post, but make sure they are "flaws".

so i repeat

1) The Quran was revealed to Mohammad Sahib by an angel called Gabriel (jibraaeel). Sri Guru Granth Sahib came directly from WAHEGURU to our Gurus. No middle man. Gurus were in direct communion with WAHEGURU.

(2) Quran was not written by Mohammad Sahib. i don't know if it was written after him or during his lifetime, but it was not written by him. I think it was a person referred to as Huzoor Usman. Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written by Gurus themselves, in their lifetimes. Not after them by someone else.

and please care to comment on 3 and 4 as well

(3) Mohammad Sahib was not educated, as he could not read/write. Guru Gobind Singh was a scholar of 7 languages, including arabic (sanskrit, gurmukhi, brajbhasha, devanagri, persian, turkish, arabic). Actually some say it was 14 to 16 languages.

(4) non-muslims are called kafirs, and considered evil. Sikhi loves and respects all irrespective of any manmade differences.

and by the way, have u checked out http://www.whyichosesikhism.com yet

[Mr §ingh]

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Bismillaah alhamdulillaah wa salaatu wa salaam ‘alaa rasoolillaah, wa ba’ad

Response to Babbarsher

You asked me about specific points pertaining to Islaam, i.e. about the belief in Allaah, about following the Prophet and his role in Islaam, etc. When you ask me to clarify what Islaam teaches I refer to the sources. I would expect you to do the same when I ask you about Sikhism. Perhaps it is different for you but when someone asks about Islaam the first source we turn to is the Qur’an and the Prophetic Sunnah (authentic tradition). When ones wants to learn about Shakespeare I presume one would turn to the source itself!

So may I ask, do you find the Bukhari as a reliable hadith?

As I explained, the clarification you put forth for Sikhism, I will deal with appropriately when I open up a thread to discuss the concept of God. I did assure you that I would come back to them. Have patience and we’ll discuss them soon, insha’allaah

The Quran was revealed to Mohammad Sahib by an angel called Gabriel (jibraaeel). Sri Guru Granth Sahib came directly from WAHEGURU to our Gurus. No middle man. Gurus were in direct communion with WAHEGURU.

(2) Quran was not written by Mohammad Sahib. i don't know if it was written after him or during his lifetime, but it was not written by him. I think it was a person referred to as Huzoor Usman. Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written by Gurus themselves, in their lifetimes. Not after them by someone else.

I think I read a hadiwth somewhere, that Muhammad had one verse written on a leaf by one of the writers, and a goat came and ate it up..

RELIABLE :roll:

Also as Rochak jee above said-

Sikhi love ALL HUMANITY....how can you clal urself spiritual when you can love your neighbor because he's a NON-MUSLIM :roll:

Ps...there are a LOT of scientific Flaws in the Qu'ran, just give me a msg and I will post a few up here

[mehtab]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

here is what Gurbani says about Waheguru : the ONE INFINITE SUPREME FORMLESS GOD

1. There is, But One God. (Guru I, Japji)

2. Contemplate the True One that was in the beginning,

The True One that was ere the world began,

The True One that exists even now,

The True One that shall exist in the future also.

(Guru I, Japji)

3. I worship the One God,

I remember the One God,

And I make supplication to the One God alone.

(Guru V, Jaitsri Rag)

4. O God, Thou art One,

Thou art Merciful, Infinite.

(Guru V, Jaitsri Rag)

5. My Mother,

I do not know anybody other than God.

(Kabirji, Gauri Rag)

6. There is only One Giver,

And He is my only Friend.

(Guru III, Gauri Rag)

7. Have faith in One, O man!

Give up faith in others.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

8. I have no concern with any Devata,

Whenever I pray, I pray to God alone.

(Kabirji, Bhairo Rag)

9. The tongue may be burnt,

That repeats the name of one other than God.

(Guru III, GujriRag)

10. All creatures have One Protector.

(Guru I, Sri Rag)

11. Says Kabir at the top of his voice:

There is but One and the Same God,

Both for the Hindus and the Muslims.

(Kabirji, Asa Rag)

12. By whose favour you enjoy the pleasures and

comforts of life,

Nanak, he alone is worthy of being remembered

ever and anon.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

13. There is but One Giver,

And no one else.

(Guru V, SriRag)

14. I do not recognize anybody else,

I always sing Thy glory.

(Guru I, Bilawal Rag)

15. He who wanders about after Devatas,

Shall go empty-handed.

(Guru V, Asa Rag)

16. Nanak, the worship of the True One is real;

Whosoever takes birth and passes away is unstable

and transient.

(Guru I, Asa Rag)

17. Serve the True One,

And praise the True One.

(Guru III, Majh Rag)

18. There are six Shastras,

Their authors are six with six different teachings;

The Guru of the Gurus is One and the Same,

Although His garbs are many.

(Guru I, Asa Rag)

19. God is my hope and mainstay;

God is my friend and I depend only upon Him.

(Guru V, Asa Rag)

20. Nanak, dwell thou on the Nam of One,

For, He alone is the Support of all.

(Guru III, Sri Rag)

21. Call on God, the One, the Formless,

Through the Grace of the Guru.

(Guru III, Sri Rag)

22. My True Guru lives for ever,

He does not take birth.

Nor death can take Him away,

He is Immortal Being,

And He is All-pervading. (Guru III, Suhi Rag)

23. O my mind, contemplate thou the Fear-free Lord,

Who is and was and shall ever be,

Who is without enmity, the Being beyond time,

Not-incarnated and Self-existent;

The Formless one, above wants,

Meditate upon Him alone.

(Guru IV, Asa Rag)

24. The Supreme Lord is unperceivable,

Say, how is one to attain Him?

He has neither from nor feature and is unseen.

Then how is He to be dwelt upon?

He is Formless, Immaculate and unknowable,

Then what attribute of Him shall one sing?

(Guru IV, Sorath Rag)

25. O Thou the Person on High,

The Purest of the pure,

Infinite and Unfathomable,

O Thou the Creator,

All worship Thee, all bow to Thee.

(Guru IV, Asa Rag)

26. I cherish the Timeless Being,

And meditate on Him alone,

Night and day.

(Guru V, Maru Rag)

27. Look for the support of One God alone;

Forsake the expectation of help from any other;

And dwell on Nam, O Nanek,

That your object may be achieved.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

28. Give up cleverness, O good man,

Remember and ever remember God, the Lord,

Nanak, trust in the One God alone,

That thy suffering, fear and doubts may be

dispelled.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

29. Meditate upon One God alone,

And the One alone do glorify;

Remember ever remember, O man, the One,

And Him alone do ever in your heart enshrine,

Sing, yea, sing the praises of the One,

The praises that can have no end.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

30. With all your heart and soul contemplate upon

the One Lord alone,

The One, the Alll-in-All, Perfect and Supreme One,

He pervadeth all, yea, full and brimming by Himself,

Many an emanation from this One have over- flowed;

Remember Him, the Holy One, O man.

All your sins shall vanish,

When imbued with the love of the One, within and without;

By the Grace of the Guru, the Blessed One is found.

(Guru V, Gauri Rag)

31. They say:

Brahma is the one who creates,

Bishnu the other that sustains,

And Shiva, they say, is the destroyer,

That controls and sits on judgement.

But no, in reality it is One God,

Who directs the world according to His Will,

And no other.

(Guru I, Japji)

32. All hail unto Him,

All hail unto Him,

Who is the Primal Being, Immaculate.

Without beginning and ever Changeless,

And is the same from age to age.

(Guru I, Japji)

guess what

Sikhi is monotheistic

[Mr §ingh]

I cna't believe Tawheed actualyl believed its polytheistic

and he tries to critize Sikhism

[Guest Javanmard]

Sorry to tell you this but your debating skills are that of an old LP player!!!

This debate will only continue if you accept to answer this one question and then we'll go on about Tawheed: who is the succesor to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Sikhi is neither pantheistic, monotheistic, polytheistic etc.. or any -istic so please stop using western classifications that do not correspond to SIkhi!

Sikhi does not enshrine the Divine in a definition as it is an act of shirk!!!

[Daljeet Singh]

Here's what my satguru: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj says:

salok ma 1 ||

Shalok, First Mehl:

musalamaan kehaavan musakal jaa hoe thaa musalamaan kehaavai ||

It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

aval aoul dheen kar mit(h)aa masakal maanaa maal musaavai ||

First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

hoe musalim dheen muhaanai maran jeevan kaa bharam chukaavai ||

Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

rab kee rajaae ma(n)nae sir oupar karathaa ma(n)nae aap gavaavai ||

As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

tho naanak sarab jeeaa mihara(n)math hoe th musalamaan kehaavai ||1||

And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

musalamaanaa sifath sareeath parr parr karehi beechaar ||

The Muslims praise the Islamic law; they read and reflect upon it.

ba(n)dhae sae j pavehi vich ba(n)dhee vaekhan ko dheedhaar ||

The Lord's bound servants are those who bind themselves to see the Lord's Vision.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

O Siblings of Destiny, you perform devotional worship indoors, but read the Islamic sacred texts, and adopt the Muslim way of life.

shhoddeelae paakha(n)ddaa ||

Renounce your hypocrisy!

naam laeiai jaahi thara(n)dhaa ||1||

Taking the Naam, the Name of the Lord, you shall swim across. ||1||

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 480

aasaa ||

Aasaa:

ham masakeen khudhaaee ba(n)dhae thum raajas man bhaavai ||

I am Your humble servant, Lord; Your Praises are pleasing to my mind.

aleh aval dheen ko saahib jor nehee furamaavai ||1||

The Lord, the Primal Being, the Master of the poor, does not ordain that they should be oppressed. ||1||

kaajee boliaa ban nehee aavai ||1|| rehaao ||

O Qazi, it is not right to speak before Him. ||1||Pause||

rojaa dhharai nivaaj gujaarai kalamaa bhisath n hoee ||

Keeping your fasts, reciting your prayers, and reading the Kalma, the Islamic creed, shall not take you to paradise.

sathar kaabaa ghatt hee bheethar jae kar jaanai koee ||2||

The Temple of Mecca is hidden within your mind, if you only knew it. ||2||

nivaaj soee jo niaao bichaarai kalamaa akalehi jaanai ||

That should be your prayer, to administer justice. Let your Kalma be the knowledge of the unknowable Lord.

paachahu mus musalaa bishhaavai thab tho dheen pashhaanai ||3||

Spread your prayer mat by conquering your five desires, and you shall recognize the true religion. ||3||

khasam pashhaan tharas kar jeea mehi maar manee kar feekee ||

Recognize Your Lord and Master, and fear Him within your heart; conquer your egotism, and make it worthless.

aap janaae avar ko jaanai thab hoe bhisath sareekee ||4||

As you see yourself, see others as well; only then will you become a partner in heaven. ||4||

maattee eaek bhaekh dhhar naanaa thaa mehi breham pashhaanaa ||

The clay is one, but it has taken many forms; I recognize the One Lord within them all.

kehai kabeeraa bhisath shhodd kar dhojak sio man maanaa ||5||4||17||

Says Kabeer, I have abandoned paradise, and reconciled my mind to hell. ||5||4||17||

These are the teachings of our Gurus, they raised Sikhs us to a higher status, above religion. Why call yourself a Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian? When, the truth is merging with God, and your religion has no reference, many beloved of God are muslims, hindus, sikhs, christians. Follow your Guru, follow your teacher, but make sure your teacher is the right teacher, a SATGURU, since there are many sorts of teachers in this world.

My two cents! Please forgive me for my mistakes.