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Ignorance, and lies from Muslims

i.e 'Islam teaches tolerance towards other religions'

'Islam teaches equality'

when it actually doesn't!

anotheer reason is ignorance from ones own religion

bhull chukk maaf

GurFateh

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Why are so many people converting to Islaam?

Like who? Are you talking about Western converts, or "Sikh girls who are being converted left, right and centre"?

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Western converts, and also Sikh girls 'left, right and centre', although that is an exaggeration, but there a few which have been, and I know someone who has seen this in his area firsthand.

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I think people are more drawn to this faith because a number of things.

> The devotion of Muslims to their faith is inspiring in terms of their practise of doing prayers 5 times a day.

> Their way of living , no alchohol etc.

> The famous notion that , Islam is the fastest growing religion.

> Their organisation, interms of the mullas/ priest being able to pass on the message to someone who speaks english only.

Compare that to sikh people

> Rarly goto the gurdwara and take their kids along with them.

> Eat as much meat as possible and a lot of alcohol

> Granthis not being able to speak english and people who do speak english in the gurdwara not being able to understand what the Granthi ji is saying.

> Gurdwaras are disorganised as they dont have any future goals.

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

LOL, not this old topic again. Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa is obsessed with Islam and Muslims all being out to "convert us", like they have nothing else going on with their lives...

You must have a very low opinion of other Sikh girls is all i can say.

Anyway, i dont know why you are seemingly so insecure about converts to Islam. Havent Europeans converted to Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism even? And what about Asian peoples who have converted to Christianity etc

Its no big deal. People see something in another religion they like so convert. If Islam was as bad as some of you think it is then the World would already be at war, Islam vs the rest...

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Amardeep Ji, also dont forget that Muslims are not obsessed with what other people think about them or their religion, unlike most Sikhs who are pretty insecure about other people thinking they are "Hindus" or something.

Im sure 98% of people dont give a damn about Sikhism. Sadly, many Sikhs refuse to believe this and feel the need to concentrate on making websites full of articles about how they are not Hindus rather than writing something useful and educational about the faith which we all can learn something from.

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PN, no offence, but you might live in an area where this does not happen, but I know people who have been through this, and people who see it happen, so please don't make the assumption that I am obsessed with Muslims. If you aren't aware of the problem, it gives you no right to call the ones who want to discuss it obsessive. I guess I am insecure when it comes to Sikh girls converting, because I happen to be one. Also, I don't have a low opinion of Sikh girls, because it would constitute having a low opinion of myself. Please allow other people to share their views, the ones who have seen this problem in their area. Thanks.

Now, back to the point of this post. Good points Amardeep Ji. I think it's the simplicity of the message, and also the level of Parchaar. Do you think we could do more in terms of presenting Sikhi to someone who is genuinely interested? We seem to disagree on so many Panthic issues etc.

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I personally think, the way sikhi is, we dont need to present anything or do any parchar. Whats happening is we dont follow sikhi properly ourselves so people just take one look at us and make assumptions about our religion.

The american converts to sikhi,are sikh because they know what SIKHI is. So each and everyone of us need to follow sikhi properly. I think Guru Angad dev ji's Daughter bibi bhani ji was an extremely devout sikh woman and because of her devotion Guru Amardas ji was inspired and became a sikh.

So Parchar to me sounds like Step no 2 cos before preaching nething to neone we need to be at a level, which people would want to get to.

Im sure 98% of people dont give a damn about Sikhism. Sadly, many Sikhs refuse to believe this and feel the need to concentrate on making websites full of articles about how they are not Hindus rather than writing something useful and educational about the faith which we all can learn something from.

I think the point about other people not caring wether sikhs are sikh or hindu is correct but you also need to know that We among ourselves need to know who we are. So website / articles arent bad.

Yes, educational material about sikhi is the best approach. I am at a stage where when i look at the state of the gurdwaras and sikh people around me, i feel really bad but being a sikh to me means, that as long as i am following the Guru's path things will turn out fine.

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On the point about American Sikhs (3HO), let's put this into perspective. For the record, I have many 3HO friends and I was involved for a while with this movement and whilst I can admire some within 3HO who strive to live a life of Gurmat, let's look at this in a more critical fashion.

We all too often hear, "oh look at the 3HO Sikhs, they all wear bana, flowing beards, even the ladies wear Dastaars" and so on...without getting into a Keski or Rehit Debate about 3HO Sikhs, let us be honest as to why this movement has grown.

We are subject to hearing Punjabi Sikhs suffer from all sorts of ills and what not from supposed Punjabi culture (which is so misunderstood, given its continuous equation to pseudo-Jatt Culture). 3HO Sikhs are quick to leverage themselves on such notions, that only they live up to the Amrit Vela lifestyle and pratice the egalitarian principles of Sikhi...

...the truth of the matter is that Punjabi (and other Indian) Sikhs have written their history with their own blood, we have a strong lineage of Shaheedi laying the foundations of our people...3HO American Sikhs frankly have written their history with nothing but Money...

...This may offend some, but the fact is that Harbhajan Singh Puri aka Sri Singh Sahib aka Yogi Bhajan aka Mahan Tantric is not the figure he is built up to be in 3HO literature (a prince, born and raised from the age of 3 with Meditation, Yogic, Auyrvedic masters and so on), he is simply a charismatic business man who has stuck gold in the US with the hippies of the 70s and the yuppies of the 80s and the new age folk of the 90s and so on...

...essentially, 3HO is an excellent marketing model built upon 'flavour of the month' pseudo holistic alternative therapies as a bid to promote Sikhi...

...yes, the 3HO Sikhs are intriguing and very often committed, but we are all aware of the issues that underlie this movement and I am in no way questioning the individual's Sikhi or faith, these comments relate to the matter of conversion and issues that arise from these elements...

...the Tantra, Kriya Yoga, Auyrveda et al taught by Yogi Bhajan and 3HO Sikhs are not authentic, they are a manufactured model of basic Desi-cooking, body weight exercises all mixed together with a great marketing campaign.

Let's not get hooked up in the numbers game, we know Sikhi is a path finer than a strand of hair and sharper than the edge of a blade, so its natural for those that can't handle the pace to seek alternative options, to put it quite crudely.

Gur Fateh!

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so they can have 72 fresh virgins when they die, lucky men but not women

and women are so "afraid" of been raped that they cover themselves totally and think islam is the righteous religion

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Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa is obsessed with Islam and Muslims all being out to "convert us", like they have nothing else going on with their lives...

In my recent experience's at uni its not so much the conversion of Non - muslim girls but more the exploitation of them by certain groups, in particular muslim boys.

I have repeatedly encountered sikhs girls 'messing' around with muslim boys at uni. The muslim boys say that sikhs girls and hindu girls are 'easy' and 'thick' . Why do our sisters do this? I think its to do with the lack of education they have about Sikhi, WHAT WILL THEY TEACH OUR KIDS IN THE FUTURE GENERATIONS?

Hence we should now take this opportunity to recognise the importance of sikh societies at uni, programmes at the gurudwara for the sikh youth and many other activities. If we teach our siblings about the jewels the Guru and the panth have given us, they themselves will become more aware of certain groups trying to exploit them. They themselves will fall into love with Guru Ji and won't need to go through these bad experiences.

Through education- we can PREVENT these situations.

As a forum we should be aware of this situation and Ms Khalsa is right in pointing this out.

Let's act, in your local area start something for the Sikh Youth, be all embracing,loving and share the fountain of knowledge given to us by our great gurus and the panth.

I make a final Ple, i beg you people out there not to look down onto the sikhs siblings that have gone off track, dont just label them as 'manmukhs'. It is OUR DUTY as Sikhs to pick up these people and educate them about sikhi! This site is an example of a group of people who have seen the lack of awareness in the SIkh Youth, and have ACTED. Gotta give it to them :yo:

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !

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Couldn't agree with you any more Harpreet sio;). The thing is, The one's that do convert are not totally to blame. The parents are to blame as well to a certain extent. If the parents dont know about the beauty of sikhi , then what are they going to teach their kids?

The other reason for this I think is the lack of unity in our community, one see's many groups just have too many disputes with each other, so if someone sees this happening and some other person comes in and says that they only preach love and no hatred, they might concider it.

Please forgive me if I have said anything to offend anyone.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !

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I personally admire the unity in Islam, the positives of the hijab, the strong sense of belief in their religion, the experience of Hajj.

Course theres things I dont agree with..but there are things about Islam that are very interesting.

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Ok that sounded well childish.

If you read my whole post then you can clearly see that I said there are things I dont agree with.

And Sikhs DO go around saying that they are real Sikhs while other sikhs (ones that cut their hair etc) are not real Sikhs.. this site has plenty examples of that.

Most muslims dont go around killing and bombing each other. Thats a very stereotypical view.

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Ok that sounded well childish.

Actually, he is child. Only 16 years old.

If you read my whole post then you can clearly see that I said there are things I don’t agree with.

I agree with you on this noor.

And Sikhs DO go around saying that they are real Sikhs while other Sikhs (ones that cut their hair etc) are not real Sikhs.. This site has plenty examples of that.

Actually, I agree with you on this but all these terms were made after researching Gurus hukumnamas, historical books and Gurbani. I know that most of the Amrit-dharis have become egoist and instead of inspiring people they try to judge and insult others. There is no mention in Sikhism that you can't bring a person back who has gone off from the real track. This is what Gurus did for their whole life. Bacially they were putting misguided people on right path and this is what we need to do. Also Sikhism is based on Guru and deciple's relation, so whatever Guru has said that's what we need to follow without doubting him.

Most Muslims don’t go around killing and bombing each other. That’s a very stereotypical view.

Actually, not most of them but major terrorist orgs come from Sunni Muslims and they are running them solely, so it’s common to see that Muslims are becoming target of this hate and ignorance even though not all are terrorists but this is how society runs. We all get labeled for bad word and for good one gets rewarded. Also, site which can be called anti-Islam site while ignoring the major fact that till now no one came forward to win in debate with Dr. Ali Sena @ http://www.faithfreedom.org which highlights the problem. I believe this person, until, I see someone is wining with him in debates.

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hi,

I was interested in Islam , too.

But islam is not unity, you have sunni, shia, sufi, wahabi, etc

And often they cant stand each other.

Islam also clearly prefers men , women are supposed to be mothers only.

So that and the view on afterlife threw me off islam

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Also Islam says that after a male dies and the world is judged only muslims will go to heaven the rest of us are the damned. Males get virgins right. What do the females get??

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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hi,

I was interested in Islam , too.

But islam is not unity, you have sunni, shia, sufi, wahabi, etc

And often they cant stand each other.

Sufis are not a sect. You can have both Sunni and Shia Sufis. Wahabis are not a sect either, they are Sunni Muslims.

Islam also clearly prefers men , women are supposed to be mothers only.

So that and the view on afterlife threw me off islam

Not true. But there is little point arguing.

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Where did I say anything about sects in my post?

And wahabi are not accepted by all sunni.

And shurely Islam does not advocate equal opportunity.

Or equal participation in religion.

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Ignorance, and lies from Muslims

i.e 'Islam teaches tolerance towards other religions'

'Islam teaches equality'

when it actually doesn't!

anotheer reason is ignorance from ones own religion

can u prove this ??

what ignorance and what lies????

i think that thread was started about Islam , not about the acts of "mullas"

i think that u need to correct ur views cuz i feel that u donno anything about Islam

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Also Islam says that after a male dies and the world is judged only muslims will go to heaven the rest of us are the damned. Males get virgins right. What do the females get??

again , u got a wrong info too..

many ignorants mullas are making wrong meanings of islam to uneducated ppl among muslims..

TRUE ISLAM IS RECOGNIZED BY QURAAN AND SUNNAS ( ACTS) AND HADITHS ( WORDS) OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD

whoever does wrong deed and never believed on true and right thing is going to hell either its muslim or from other religion...

MUSLIMS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE that they have believed on right and TRUE...

BUT ON OTHER HAND, Muslims should be more careful about their acts because, Muslims are given the whole complete truth to follow

not like others..

others will say that they didn't know what was truth after their death as they ( other religion believers ) will plead to Allah that they couldn't recognize the REAL TRUTH..

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Where did I say anything about sects in my post?

And wahabi are not accepted by all sunni.

And shurely Islam does not advocate equal opportunity.

Or equal participation in religion.

yes, Muslims were all united..but different mullas ( Islamic preists) took their own meanings when they were in different parts of world

BUT, THIS WAS ALREADY TOLD 1400 YEARS AGO THAT MUSLIMS WILL be divided in many sects( like 73 sects and one is true one), because they will fall into dark and ignorants sides,, as it is happening today among many muslims sect

that true sect will come by another Islamic prophet who is under Prophet Muhammad and Islam ( nothing new from original Islam)

and that prophet had came under Prophet Muhammad and under same Islamic education....

he clarified many stuffs

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