sikh_fauge Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Oi u copied my flag snif snif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUKHBIR Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, A fantastic album, well conceived and executed, definitely a welcome development. Despite many who would wish us not to, we need to raise awareness of our contemporary history amongst our youth and their is nothing at all wrong with using a contemporary style in order to do it. The album sleeve and its introduction is both informative and uncompromising, as it should be. 'Cheap' is not a word that can be associated with this album, the lyrics in the most part being based on factual history and the music appropriate to both mood and intent. I, as I am sure many others recognised the original BBC reporting sampled into many of the tracks. The album works both as a historical narrative and as a tribute (as it was intended) to the heroism and sacrifice of the men and women that dared to stand defiant in the face of shameless indian tyranny, they are now as they were then a shining example to the Sikh nation. As to whether or not the album or its artists are 'khalistani'(not my terminology),any one listening to the album will be left in no doubt whatsoever that it is a positive affirmation of the absolute need for Sikh sovereignty. Further the statement "Khalistan! The reality with Guru Ji's blessing" inside the album cover itself, is I would say a pretty unequivocal declaration. This is entirely the correct message for these particular artists as it should be for any Sikh. Well done Tigerstyle,Immortal productions and co. It is heartening to see we still have artists with the courage of their convictions. Gur Fateh Sukhbir Singh P.S. Please remember to buy this album rather than downloading it since all profitable proceeds from sales are to be given as seva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 the album is not even all that! theres one track 'jaago' thats actually worth listening to. as for the 'jathebundee' that actually backs this album - its ok for them to back this 'new age' type of dhaarmak geet (as obvsiously it promotes 84) where as they are totally ignorant when it comes to other new age types of sikhi stuff like that 3ho, dya singh, khalsa palay do. i wonder why?!?! the time has come where music is changing. new albums (that will make the older generation perhaps feel uncomfortable) will start coming out from sikhs born outside of india. to be honest i cant wait for it. i appreciate the efforts of shaheedi immortality but something tells me the album has more to do with POLITICS rather than sikh awareness, music, or bani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 You're right AS Kang! It's just cheap Khalistani propaganda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 thank you. MWAH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 its a man by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I still accpet the kiss but please don't use your tongue! I just had garlic bread!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 As kangs the man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUKHBIR Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, You're right AS Kang! It's just cheap Khalistani propaganda! Cheap? As opposed to quality propaganda? The Dhadhi Vaaran included in the album, as those sung by Jagowale are a matter of historical fact in that they recount actual events that took place in and around the Panjab at that time, as to whether you regard it as propaganda or information is simply a matter of whether you believe that justice and truth should be respected values or not. You see propaganda is defined as the organised promotion of information in order to assist or damage the cause of a government or movement, so by spreading this information which is factually correct they are damaging the cause of a government/state that has failed to provide any justice to the Sikhs in the past twenty years, consequently they are assisting a group (Sikhs) by raising awareness of their plight. So I suppose it is matter of whether your own personal prejudice is damaged or assisted by what you hear. the album is not even all that! theres one track 'jaago' thats actually worth listening to Of course that is your opinion and your welcome to it, there is no accounting for taste poor or otherwise. as for the 'jathebundee' that actually backs this album - its ok for them to back this 'new age' type of dhaarmak geet (as obvsiously it promotes 84) where as they are totally ignorant when it comes to other new age types of sikhi stuff like that 3ho, dya singh, khalsa palay do. i wonder why?!?! Who are you referring to?How are you privy to what they are or are not ignorant of? i appreciate the efforts of shaheedi immortality but something tells me the album has more to do with POLITICS rather than sikh awareness, music, or bani Thank you so much for stating the obvious and your point is? Sikh awareness is inclusive of the understanding of the Sikhs political situation both present and past. The spiritual and the temporal are inseparable, the whole history of the Sikhs as with the history of any other 'people' is concerned with politics, think about it. The creation of the Khalsa, as example, was as much a result of the political situation that existed in that period as the socio-religious. The album is very clear in its intention i.e. to raise awareness of momentous events that have affected the Sikh nation in recent times, in that it succeeds admirably. Gur Fateh Sukhbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Nihangs smoking sukha!!!!!!! WHAT A JOKE! And as for the Nindia of Jathedar Baba Santa Singh Ji well…..get your facts right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think they said that to take the mick, not to be taken literally! (as is the part about fighting goats!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 "Baba Santa Singh is surely to be considered the jathedar of the SIkh qaum" Baba Nihal Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 va ji va. thank you sukhbir veer. im entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours. mWAh to you too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 ps: i love that quote baba nihal singh. and fauge u da man too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUKHBIR Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, Nihangs smoking sukha!!!!!!! WHAT A JOKE! I take it the problem you have with this statement is the form of ingestion suggested? i.e. they do not 'smoke' the hemp,instead take it orally,by this standard is the 'chewing' of tobacco acceptable? And as for the Nindia of Jathedar Baba Santa Singh Ji well…..get your facts right: Who should get their fact's right? Since I never mentioned Santa Singh I can only assume you are referring to the writer's of this quote from the literature that accompanies the album. "...for those who still think Sikhs aren't being oppressed in Panjab and across India. Much like the '*angs' (not Nihangs) of Santa Singh(opium and flesh abusers disguised as Sikhs) of 1984, the so-called protectors of the Akal Takhat....they weren't there in 1984, they can keep their expertise in the battlefield and fight the goats": Is that what you were referring to? Far be it from to defend the statements of another it would be presumptive of me, however some of the accusations are mere statements of fact i.e. the known consumption of meat and opium by many who regard themselves as Nihangs, the offence as you would see it would be the use of the word 'abusers' rather than the stating of fact. Of course like anything else it is a matter of perspective, the abuser is in the eye of the writer, a 'tee-totaller' would regard a 'drinker' as a abuser of his body, as a non-smoker would regard a smoker as a self-abuser. Therefore it is the prerogative of the writer to write from his perspective, as you do. The 'nindia' of Santa Singh is a bit more complicated, there is no direct accusation save for the writer's opinion that the people that are represented by Santa Singh are to his mind not Nihangs, by his definition, as to what his definition may be is again a matter for the writer. I will say this much in regard to Santa Singh, his collaboration with the Indian Government following bluestar in direct contravention of Sikh interests is no secret and led to his excommunication from the panth, a punishment which he accepted after some seventeen years in 'exile'. Looked at in a historical comparative his actions would have been equal to a Sikh, regardless of grandeur of title and position(if anything all the worse for it) accepting money and assistance from Ahmed Shah Abdali for reconstruction after his destruction of Harminder Sahib whilst allowing his tobacco smoking, shoe wearing and in the case of the Indian army alcohol drinking soldiers to mill around the complex whilst enforcing a curfew with orders to shoot on sight, in the surrounding city. Hypothetically speaking, if there had been an individual who had carried out such actions from that period, how do you think he would be remembered by the Sikh community? What words do you think may be used to describe him or his action's? Excerpt taken from Prof.Sangat Singh's 'The Sikhs In History, a millennium study' "...Buta Singh's inability to meet the conditions of withdrawal of troops from the Golden Temple complex laid down by Baba Kharak Singh, to undertake the 'kar seva', reconstruction of damaged shrine by the voluntary service of the community, which was in the best traditions of Sikhism, was glaring......Lt.Gen.Tirath Singh Oberoi landed in amritsar on July 13, to negotiate the kar seva..while the army insisted on keeping a picket at darshani deori,...New Delhi's duplicity was obvious from the fact that this period of negotiations was utilised to transport a fleet of buses of Santa Singh's Nihangs from Bhatinda, 300kms away, guarded by Punjab Police commandos, Indira's special confidant and K.C.Pant flew from Delhi on the evening of July 16th, and conveyed the move to the army brass. The Generals now unabashedly told Akalis that Indira had decided that they were still untrustworthy and the man dubbed Indira's 'favourite nihang', Baba Santa Singh had been brought in for the kar seva.....The five high preists struck immediately and issued a hukamnamah barring the Sikhs from participation in the kar seva without their sanction. Santa Singh refused summons and was immediately excommunicated....":" Following the demolition of the Indira sponsored re-construction of the Akal Takht it was pulled down to allow it to be re-built by the Sikhs, this time with legitimacy... The rubble of the demolished Akal Takht yeilded a rich crop of meat bones, earthen peices of 'chillums', razor blades etc- all thrown by troops sacrilegiously into the building material at the time of construction under auspices of Baba Santa Singh.":" I will refrain from personal comment on the actions of this man and leave it to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. I will say that your perceived 'nindia' of him, by the album producers, if there has been any, is probably related to the episode above. "Baba Santa Singh is surely to be considered the jathedar of the SIkh qaum" Baba Nihal Singh ps: i love that quote baba nihal singh. and fauge u da man too!!! Is this the same Baba Nihal Singh, whom along with late Baba Mangal Singh Satlani and Baba Bikramjit Singh were also excommunicated for taking part in Indira's Kar seva? I would suggest that this album should be bought by all regardless of persuasion after all even if it is not to your taste musically, you have given some money to a worthy cause as well as hopefully realising the immense suffering and injustice suffered at the hands of the indian state and by Gods grace, go on to realise, the very real threat it still hold's for us all today, to coin a phrase JAGO! Sukhbir Singh P.S. I thought it pertinent to add a small excerpt from the album introduction (hope not too much of a liberty I.P?) for those who may not have yet bought the album and thus not read it. When someone has the courage to speak the truth it is rarely a comfortable experience for those who have a vested interest in hiding it. '...We rightly remember the sacrifices made by our forefathers centuries ago to uphold our freedom to practice Sikhi. Yet in recent time's, we have been forced to forget our most recent history which has seen a second rising of the sikh spirit since the 1980's. Our History during the last century has been distorted through the spin of right wing Hindu fanatics, who have overseen betrayal after betrayal since partitioning the mythological india, and the Sikh homeland of Panjab. The Mughals barbarically without prejudice cleansed the feilds of Panjab with the blood of the young sahibzadas-afraid of the Sikhi spirit and the revolution they could inspire through the message of freedom and tolerance. More recently the right wing fascist Nazis of india, disguised as legitimate religious groupings such as RSS,Arya samaj, Shiv Sena,Bajrang Dal, Nirankari and BJP have continued this cycle of genocide. On the world scene their views are represented and sanctioned by World hindu council,Seva international and student bodies such as the Hindu students forum. Ultimately their message is hindi-hindu-hindustan. Sikhs after apparently 'basking' in nearly 60 years of indian independence are still categorised as hindu in the indian constitution, which has never been signed by any Sikh representative. Many Sikhs are duped by the hindu cry of brotherly blackmail-that Sikhs were founded to protect the hindus from islam. But lets not forget! Who alleged to the mughals that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji contained passages which were blasphemous to Islam- and led to the martyrdom of Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji? The Hindu local cheif Chandu after Guru Ji refused his daughters hand in marriage to Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji. Who came begging to Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Ji to save them from conversion leading to the Guru Teg Bahadur ji's martyrdom? Hindu pandits of Kashmir. Who hounded Guru Gobind Singh Ji from Anandpur Sahib leading to the martyrdom of many Sikhs including the Sahibzadas? Hindu hill rajas who had sided with the mughals and felt threatened by the rise of Sikhi. Who actually handed the younger Sahibzadas to the Mughals? Gangu a brahmin who had served under Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji....... Two decades have also passed since the cruel riots of November 1984,staged across india which saw the calculated and pre-meditated massacre of over 20,000 Sikhs. Thousands of Sikh children where orphaned and many thousands of Sikh women gang raped, countless Sikh shrines attacked and destroyed. Sikh property and business looted. To this day in 'free' and 'democratic' india, not a single individual has been convicted or sentenced....a whole generation of Sikh youth has been wiped out in india during the last two decades of the anti-Sikh lynching through 'police encounters, which were in reality extra judicial executions,or commonly know to human rights organisations as fake police encounters.Many others have been tortured to death, some missing never to return to their loved ones, thousands remain in prisons and hundreds on death row........this album is dedicated to those individuals who have given their all to uphold the tradition of martyrdom,we pay homage to the Shaheeds of the Sikh Nation from past to present, those who continue to tread the path and those who will play the game of love through shaheedi--they will be immortal and never forgotten........: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Great debate ji... I had to intervence... do you guys mind if i move this topic to our Archive Section or Formal debate section ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 sukhbir sio!!! Mwah!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Good points sukhbir. And yes neo veera, this is a good discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukdev Singh Jhamka Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh well said veerji sukhbir singh, guess the truth hurts, but u can hide from the fact that this CD is doing the rounds and going out to ppl who wouldnot even wanna know about sikhi. so well done the makers of the cd. dhan guru ji dhan thera panth khalsa never forget 84 ak47 wale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 It's not the drums or the music : it's the social connotation of this type of music! If u listen to Old skool Hip-hop a lot of tunes tell us stories, wot has been done with this album is the samething, Boliyan (Rapping) with Beats. Boliyan is the same as rapping. Plus the album isnt about Khalistan its about 1984 and our Guru, Guru Granth Sahib taken the Indian Armys bullets and so did soo many other people in the Harminder Sahib and some might have been non-sikh who knows. I like the album because it says what i feel, I dont really support Khalistan, niether do i hate Hindus or anyone else, its not the felt of the Hindus, Indira Gandhi was too set in her ways and she was power hungry. But if Khalistan happens, it'll happen by the Will of God and no otherway and if it'll happen with the Will of God then im happy, whatever Waheguru does im happy. Sat Naam :bow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 I have alot of views directed at individuals, but im going to stay quiet as to keep the peace. But before people start accusing people of being khalistani at just the mention of opertation bluestar, theyneed to do some further reading or keep their gobs shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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