tSingh Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 As I admitted on the phone to my beloved SMS, this is one sakhi I have not come across (as you can see in the references to the website). Since it is now Gurbilas Patshahi Dasmi by Koer Singh, I shall check it out. To my mind the reason it isn't mentioned is more an isse that arises with many accounts from this time, i.e. internal discrepancies and ommissions. Take a review of the creation of Khalsa itself, and you will find a plethora of accounts. 1. I am not of the view that because early history is recorded by Sewapanthis, it should be discarded as a credible source for learning of their origins. 2. At the time when early Sewapanthi accounts and early Nirmala accounts (Pandit Gulab Singh) of the origins of these samprdahs were written, there was no 'alternative' or threat posed attempting to question their own validity. This discourse comes much later with the post-Singh Sabha movement. 3. The nature of such texts is not to state 'look at our origins' as you'd expect if there were to be such a discourse within the panth on their own validity. References are teased out of the accounts or texts mentioned. 4. They also had seemingly little to gain from creating such stories, especially considering these early authors were recognised practicing mahapurush (Bhai Sehaj Ram, Pandit Gulab Singh) of some reknown. 5. Furthermore, the fact that such narratives are arising at a similar time, yet geographically distant, is testimony to the fact that by this time (50 years or so after Guru ji) there arose both the need and the consolidation with which it was possible to begin compiling such information and for it to have meaning. As for Bhai Adhan Shah, yes I can see your point, yet the accounts that existed in his own lifetime, written by a known Sewapanthi are pointing back from himself, to Bhai Sewa Ram, to Bhai Kanhaiyya as the linking lineage to Guru ji. Hope that helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I read the aforementioned sakhi from Koer Singh's 'Gurbilas'. Very interesting indeed, and to outline, the text refers to Bhai Sewa Ram (his successor), and refers to Bhai Kanhaiyya as 'Sant'. It reinforces the position and stature of Bhai Sewa Ram as his successor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Living a virakat or celibate life has become a big focus in recent studies in sevapanthi maryada. However as we can see from accounts of Bhai Kanhaiya Ji's life celibacy is not the deciding factor. In other words it is very possible to have a grishtee sevapanthi. As for the origins of the samparda, looking back to the famous 'malam patee' or 'medicine and bandage' incidence. It was Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bakhshish on Bhai Sahib that he carry on his good seva for the mission of 'sarbat da bhalla'. This bakhshish from Kalghidhar is the basis of the samparda. I dont really feel it necessary for Dasme Paatshaah to have to decree the birth of this samparda. It was merely Guru Gobind Singh's kirpa on Bhai Kanhaiya that people were attracted to his way of seva. Veer Tsingh Ji my more learned brother will deal with the historical details. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Goddess Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Neo I see a lot of 'off topic' posts here, would you be so kind as to remove them? This one too of course. Moderator Note: G Kaur, we are grateful for your observation and kind notification, however as you will note, the thread is not poluted with strings of unrelated nonsense and has quite considerably returned to the topic at hand, maybe if you have something positive to contribute, you too can enlighten the sangat here with your gyan. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maha_Pavitar Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 The thread is about Sevapanthis and their lifestyle, I don't see anything off topic, perhaps I'm going blind Challenge_everything veer, thanks for the post..from the limited knowledge I have (and discussions with SMS, others) we are under the simple impression that to undergo such devoted seva perhaps it is unfair to your family/spouse if you are not able to devote time to them either.. But, on the flip side..we're all Sikhs and are encouraged to lead a grishti lifestyle and all our Guroo Jee (of age) were married as well! In the same context, where are the women? P.S./'Neo' (N30 S!NGH) isn't the only moderator! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sardar Moderator Singh Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 tsingh and challenge everything veers, thank you for your input and for seeing these questions for what they are, we look forward to discussing such matter further with you both and the forum. regards, SMS -not sure since when I've become tsingh's beloved, but chullo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Gurfateh I was tralling through this and noticed unanswered questions. I took my time but I have some answers (I think)! I'm currently translating a Sewapanthi granth, and while writing the intro I have gone back through a lot of those early sources. As regards Bhai Kanhaiyya, he was initially grishthi but became firstly a sevak of Guru Tegh Bahadur, then Guru Gobind Singh ji. His lifestyle after 1704 was one of episdoes of sadhna by a river coupled with prachar. His direct chelas adopted this mode, one a fakir the other a fellow virakat Sikh. From here onwards there has remained a steadfast insistence on bihangam maryada. It is interesting to note that those rare expections who became grihsthi later at the end of the 19th century (and minor exceptions in the 20th century) are generally not considered sewapanthis as such (I heard this a few times from different sewapanthi sants). On the question why? well, much like those udasis, nirmalas, akalis who gave their all to the pursuit of vidya, seva or prachaar, living a grihsthi jeevan was seen to be compromised by complete selfless seva and intense sadhna. As anybody who knows about the recent history of certain akharas, deras, ashrams, etc, when the mahant becomes grihsthi the maryada usually (although not always) slides with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 bump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Fantastic posts by Tsingh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaalka Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 On Friday, April 16, 2004 at 11:55 PM, tSingh said: I have yet to come across one female Sewapanthi. To my knowledge, there are none alive presently, and none that I have come across in the past. Any update? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Again, fantastic posts by Tsingh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.