Jump to content

Kesh?!


Guest Sehjo Kaur

Recommended Posts

You are a sikh - you learn, even when you are a bhuddha! You seem to be very passionate about Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, so why dont you try to follow his example, he was fuent in several languages........ they wrote bani in different languages......

Ok, so when am I denying the fact that we dont keep learning this ??

Isnt Guru Gobind Singh Ji's authentic baani available in Gurmukhi lipi. Isn's Guru Granth Sahib, and Bhai Gurdaas Ji's Baani available in Gurmukhi Lipi.

Yes, there are words used from other languages, and to understand the context and the meaning in which these are used need to be understood.

So what is being suggested, first we learn all these languages, take the original's and then convert them/understand them and then discuss. I think it is way too tedious, esp for the young people here. cant we simplify things for them rather than giving a whole lot of junked philosphy.

The point Harpreet is, the way 'L' keeps on suggesting such things, in a very dictatorial manner.

L says:

The reasons for it at actually far more complex than just the whole "laws of nature" argument and are to be sought in both the Indic, Abrahamic and martial contexts and needless to say the very teachings of our Beloved Father Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

I dont know where you bring all this Indic, Abrahamic and martial contexts into this discussion.

The fallacy in this is that all such arguments can easily be refuted, Gurbaani's concept of Hukam (which u refer to as just the whole laws of nature) cannot be refuted.

for e.g. Do we keep hair, only because it will make us look ferocious or do we keep it because of a Gift from God, to show obedience to His will?

I have Mahankosh on my PC and have looked up the term.

But then going by your logic where does the beard stop and the chest hair begin ??

Frankly I think ur influenced too much by Islamic and Hindu practices and thats the cause of your differing views.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't understand why this keeps coming up? Kesh is for Khalsa only, it is a MUST and cannot be cut. As for non-Khalsa Sikhs, they must first get to the level where they can keep Kesh and later become Khalsa. Most Sikhs do it the other way round, they have no spirituality or understanding of Sikhism, they just put on a "Turban, beard and 5K's" like it is some kind of exclusive club they are joining, they then start juding all the other non-Khalsa Sikhs! How messed up is that? They are full of false pride which is against the Khalsa in the first place! They are fakes and only interested in personal glory, whereas there are many true Sikhs who cut their hair but are a lot more spiritual and enlightened than the "outside appearence only" Khalsa Sikhs, who are totally fake from the inside, where it counts the most...

Kind Regards,

MI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

Babbarsher, as usual you just didn't understand my point. Hukam is important but it's not the ONLY reason behind keeping kesh!

you wrote:

But then going by your logic where does the beard stop and the chest hair begin ??

Well among most Human being between the chest and the beard there is a neck! You might have refered to either Neanderthals or Bigfoots but I was actually talking about homo sapiens (human beings)

Anyway Budha Dal maryada is that a man cannot cut his chest hair as it is a sign of his manhood. Again my last post was just saying: look guys here is a problematic area let's look at it professionally with the proper tools. If you don't want to then don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harpeeet veer,

I want you to know that above quote was taken by tapoban. And its not my view.

I just want to quote rehitnaama's and do not know why i posted his whole post... didnt even read properly i perhaps.

Last thing i want to see wahabis claiming oh If you got no kesh then there is no mukhti... lol.. what a joke...

Mukhtiii comes with jugti...............:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

Well the thing is that the translation of that Rahitnama is actually false! That is what you get by translating Braj texts with modern Panjabi vocabulary!

That passage of the rahitnama in Braj translates as: Don't shave your hair (on the scalp) on the occasion of funerals (pind karam). Giving Rahitnamas in English alone is misleading. Give the gurmukhi text as well!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:cry:

The main question raised by sister Sehjo Kaur Jee was like this, "Can someone please clarify if Guru Ji was referring to not removing any hair from any part of your body, or just the head?" She also said that lalleshvari Jee said (in another thread) that Kesh is only the hair on the head.

In his reply, my brother lalleshvari said, "I wasn't talking about amritdharis!"

I think lalleshvari Jee made his point very clear. He was talking about non-Amritdharis.

If something is not clear yet, here are some clarifications: -

1. In our old 'Rahatnamas', there is descriptions of Sikhs (Amritdhari Sikhs) and Sahajdhari Sikhs. Any Rahat about hair should be seen in this context.

2. For an Amritdhari Sikh, The 'Rahatnama Bhaayee Chaupa Singh' says, "Guru Ka Sikh Dehee De Rom Na Luhaaye". The word 'Dehee' clearly means 'body'. Thus, an Amritdhari is supposed to keep all the hair on his body uncut. (Also see, "Kesdhari Chhaatee De Rom Luhaaye, So Tankhaaheeya"). (Rom = hair, Luhaaye = remove/cut, Chhaatee = chest)

On the other hand, for 'Sahajdhari' Sikh, the same 'Rahatnama' says, "Guru Ka Sikh Sahajdhari Rom Kainchee Naal Utraave". At the same time, this Rahatnama says, "Jo Sikh Sahajdhari Hoye Kai, Chehre De Rom Luhaaye, So Bhee Tankhaaheeya". (Kainchee = scissors, Chehre = face).

Even a Sahajdhari is not allowed to do 'Bhaddan' (shave). He is allowed to use scissors, but not razor.

Good to know you will have your debate privately with those who 'learn the languages'.

I hope this is not a direct attack on me.

well Amrit ji (and I love him to bits) mentioned panj kesh which is a Nirmala terminology and applies to men! Also the panj kesh do not include all hair and this term is used widely by a lot of Vaishnava and Shaiva sadhus as well.

I love you too, my brother.

It is right that the term 'Panch Kesh' has been used by Nirmala saints. I also agree to the fact that this term is used widely by a lot of Vaishnava And Shaiv sadhus as well.

The term panj kesh is not used earlier!!!

As far I remember, I did not see this term in other books. Thus, in all probability, only Nirmala sadhus have used the term 'panj kesh'.

We will have to accept that to analysis the old Sikh texts, it is compulsory to learn languages like Braj Bhasha, Pali etc. The knowledge of Sanskrit is also required. And, these languages belong to same family. Just learn Sanskrit and Braj Basha. Get some knowledge of Persian. Punjabi we already know. Then start to read the texts, like Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Bhai Gurdas's Vaaran and Kabit, Bhai Nand Lal's compostions, Sri Sarabloh Granth, Sri Gur Prataap Sooraj Granth, Naanak Prakash, Gurbilas Paatshahi 6, Gurbilas Paatshahi 10 (Kuyer Singh), Gurbilas Paatshahi 10 (Sukha Singh), Panth Parkash (Bhangu), Panth Parkash (Giani Gian Singh), Twareekh Guru Khalsa, Rahatnamas, Mahma Parkaash, Sri Gur Sobha, Sri Gur Pur Parkash, Bansaavalinama, Sau Sakhi, Bijai Mukat, Janamsakhi Gur Nanak Shah Kee, Gur Nanak Soorajodai Janamsakhee, Janamsakhi Bhai Bala Ji, Puratan Janamsakhi, Janamsakhi Bhai Mani Singh, Meharbaan Vaalee Janamsakhi, Pothi Har ji, Pothi Chaturbujh etc. :LOL: Thus, it is so simple to get hold on Sikh history, Rahat, tradition etc. :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

Amrit Veerji is right: Sahajdhari men should keep a beard and trim it but they cannot shave! The sahajdhari rahitnama says that sahajdharis should keep a beard like Keshdharis but that they are allowed to trim it (with scisor) if they have to (reference to Mughal court etiquette).

The issue of body hair for amritdhari women (and in some cases even some men) is quite complex and needs to investigated. Ready made answers are not available in cases of accidents, chemio therapy, hormonal imbalance and unnatural hair growth provoked by pollution or other factors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GurFateh.

Why would Guru Ji want us to keep some hair and trim/remove other hair? I thought submitting to the will of God was to leaver the hair intact as it is? Keeping some ahir and removing other hair seems like hipocracy to me... empty ritualism which in the end will no where because it is a half hearted attempt at obeying the Hukam we are ment to follow.

They are alot of people maniplulating translations so it suits them and they only know best because they can speak, read wrtie the languages alot better than others. An abuse of power it seems to me. :?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

we're talking here about a specific document about the rahit of sahajdharis. Even your SGPC recognises the existence of sahajdharis!

If you think people abuse power here then learn the languages yourself as you are requested to as a Sikh an beat those you consider to be wrong.

Knowledge is power. If you are not willing to do that abstain from baseless statements!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

To all those who are new to this forum please note that some people here think that one is not allowed to understand and study SIkh texts in order to understand SIkhi. For these people one instinctively understands languages that one has not studied before. There is no need for scholarship and it really is just about following a programm that has been stuffed into one's head during some "Sikhi" camp or "chardi kala" programm!

But if that's so why are we discussing then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lalleshvari: Its NOT bad to read all these writings, BUT a lot of scholars have already done this. Some of the writings are written in poetic language and it is diffiuclt to grasp the meaning of the writings, sometimes even by scholars.

How do you think the young minds will be able to resolve this ?

Dont we all use the Teeka of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, in trying to understand the Baani, or shall we start deciphering the Shabad based upon our buddhi.

I definately think reading the old manuscripts and then doing the 'arth' by ourselves is reinventing the wheel, as a lot of leanred scholars have done this, verbatim.

Amrit above has written:

"Guru Ka Sikh Sahajdhari Rom Kainchee Naal Utraave". At the same time, this Rahatnama says, "Jo Sikh Sahajdhari Hoye Kai, Chehre De Rom Luhaaye, So Bhee Tankhaaheeya". (Kainchee = scissors, Chehre = face).

What about a beard trimmer my friend, set to the closest, so as to just remove the hair from just above the surface ? And why the do away with the shaving stuff, when the ultimate aim of both scissors and the razor is the same.

The words anyway used in the Rehatnama is 'Chehre De Rom Luhaaye' as you have said. So what does the term Luhaye mean? Does it only refer to the act of shaving ? depilation? chemical removal?

What is the difference in the meaning of the word Utraave and Luhaye? Can you please give some dictionary references?

What does the word 'Rom' refer to ? vi.s hair on which selective part of the body? In the line below t is written 'chehre de rom'. So does it mean the word roam refers to the hair per se of the body, any part.

Isnt the first line implying that, we can use scissors to remove all of our hair then, at least the hair from the body (if u think Kesh only refers to the hair on the head, however as lalleshvari has pointed out Mahaan Kosh meaning of Kesh is a bit different.. ).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

The seventh section of the Wajib ul Arz (Sahajdhari Rahitnama handed to Bhai Mani SIngh) clearly says that Sahajdhari men should keep a beard (sign of manhood and nobility) and that they may trim them. It seems that Sahajdhari men who cut their beard are actually commiting an offence. This makes sense as the Sahajdhari should be able to prepare himself to become keshdhari though this is not compulsory. One should also put this in the context of the cultural issue of bearded vs. shaven cultures. If you look at the conflict between orthodox and catholics one of the main issues of dispute was beards. The orthodox clearly said that a man should keep beard and long hair even if trimmed as a sign of manhood and respect for his creator. Let's say that keeping a beard even if trimmed is the minimum a Sahajdhari man should do.

Regarding reading gurbani ourselves I don't think there is anything wrong in that provided one has had a proper linguistic training for that. I do acknowledge the tikas of other people yet at the same time I know from experience that in many taksals theyt have stopped learning the languages and just keep on repeating the master's master's interpretation. There is absolutely nothing wrong in interpreting gurbani as long as one has learned Braj, Hindi,Urdu Panjabi, Sanskrit, Sadhu Khari and Persian (at least a good knowledge of Persian). Otherwise: NO!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is absolutely nothing wrong in interpreting gurbani as long as one has learned Braj, Hindi,Urdu Panjabi, Sanskrit, Sadhu Khari and Persian (at least a good knowledge of Persian). Otherwise: NO!!!

Mr L! what ever happened to accessiblity to Gurbani ? You need all these languages to interpret the message of the Guru ?

I thought the 1 reason for the SGGS was to free us from pundits! no we have to ask Scholars of 6 languages for Gurbani interpretations?

Although a justification could be that over the years we have gotten more ignorant and very lazy, hence 6-7 languages was a norm for Guru Ji's time? Are say that many years ago the taksaals were a lot more knowledgeable? If so, we as a 'panth' have really messed things up!

Mr L ?

Harpreet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

yes we have. It's a fact that in Maharaj's time the average SIkh who was educated in the SIkh institutions knew most of those languages. Don't forget that BHai Nand Lal's compositions were written in Persian and that they were sung by the sangat which means the aam sangat (or at least a sizeable part of it) knew Persian as well.

yes we have beome extremely ignorant and that is a problem! Guru Gobind SIngh wanted Sikhs to be educated but it seems our people just want to be lazy and bring Sikhi to their level!

What a shame when we think of the delicacy and education of Anandpur's darbar!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lalleshvari:

Your explanation, has given rise to some more questions.

Athough, I have addressed some questiosn to Amrit. You have responded in a general manner, quoting Wajib Ul Araz.

So I think it is apt. that you respond to the other questions I raised, in a clear and pointwise manner and hence resolve my confusion.

""The seventh section of the Wajib ul Arz (Sahajdhari Rahitnama handed to Bhai Mani SIngh) clearly says that Sahajdhari men should keep a beard (sign of manhood and nobility) and that they may trim them.""

....the younger generation can easily counter your argument by saying tha the beard is no longer considered a sign of manhood and nobility. in our modern culture. The signs of nobiltiy and manhood have changed. Please ask a girl whether she thinks Beard is a sign of manhood ?

In essence the reason you are giving is either cultural or social NOT religious !!

""It seems that Sahajdhari men who cut their beard are actually commiting an offence. This makes sense as the Sahajdhari should be able to prepare himself to become keshdhari though this is not compulsory. ""

....again a confusion. You use the word 'seems' they are comitting an offence. Can you please clarify this statement ...

""One should also put this in the context of the cultural issue of bearded vs. shaven cultures. If you look at the conflict between orthodox and catholics one of the main issues of dispute was beards. The orthodox clearly said that a man should keep beard and long hair even if trimmed as a sign of manhood and respect for his creator. ""

How can you claim to be respecting the creator when you are modifying it, albeit a little or some more. Whats the harm - from a religious point of view, if you have already trimmed the beard upto a the fist or more ??

""Let's say that keeping a beard even if trimmed is the minimum a Sahajdhari man should do.""

""Again. Trimming with a beard trimmer at a setting, allows one to trim close and the look is akin to shaving. Or one can keep a stuble, so minute it hardly gives the look of a beard. Such beards are very visible in the Malwa region. ""

Regarding reading gurbani ourselves I don't think there is anything wrong in that provided one has had a proper linguistic training for that. I do acknowledge the tikas of other people yet at the same time I know from experience that in many taksals theyt have stopped learning the languages and just keep on repeating the master's master's interpretation. There is absolutely nothing wrong in interpreting gurbani as long as one has learned Braj, Hindi,Urdu Panjabi, Sanskrit, Sadhu Khari and Persian (at least a good knowledge of Persian).

Otherwise: NO!!!

""Lalleshvari, you are on this forum for discussion, NOT as a Judge brought in to make a categorical decison :-)

Gurbaani was meant to be a Universal thing, easy to learn, digest and assimilate. It is not a puzzle. It is not a question. It is an answer to all our queries. It is a guide for us on how to attain God.

I dont think it is absolutely essential to learn all the languages you specified above. It is of course always good to learn different languages. And Guru Gobind Singh Ji was highly learned and versed in many languages.

BUt then we forget, whether the other Gurus were also versed in all the same languages (I dont have historical proof) BUT I would say that there would be differences in the languages the learnt ? If you have any historical info to share, would be much appreciated.

What is essential would be to have good knowledge of Gurmkuhi script (for Guru Granth Sahib is written in this script) and use the Teeka of Dr. Sahib Singh (or others as per one's belief) to understand the message. (The correct prononciation and the usage of context of words is very important)

The again I cannot blame a foreigner who is at a stage of his life, or due to the conditions, is not able to learn Gurmukhi. I think if he uses English transalations and follows the path prescribed by Guru Granth Sahib Ji, he will be Jeevan Mukt.

Please remember Gurbaani is not a Mantar, which we have to recite like a parrot. It is the meaning of Gurbaani which we have to bring into our life.

Akal Sahai

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

1. Concepts of masculinity in most cultures include beards as signs of manhood. The fact that in the West the shaven trend is predominant now is the result of deep changes in concepts of masculinity which are re-defining themselves. If we look at the roots of European culture (Greece and the Bible) we clearly see that beards have always been considered signs of manhood and nobility. The fact that a lot of girls do not consider beards attractive doesn't mean beards are not a sign of manhood. It rather means that traditional concepts of masculinity have changed to the point that the clearly defined disctinctions between feminity and masculinity have been blurred with the emergence of the uni-sex androgynous look.

2. Sikhi has its root in North Indian culture at the intersection between different religious cultures. That does not mean it is an ethnic religion as it is open to all, yet one cannot discard the socio-cultural dimension of Sikhi and transform it into an a-cultured global export product. Religions are much more complicated than that and so is Sikhi.

3. I don't discuss here the length of beards, something I'd rather leave to Islamic clerics! lol I am just mentioning the texts to show that there is an issue about Sahajdharis and beards and that this is imbeded in courtly culture (as mentioned in the Wajib ul Arz), the darbar sahib being a court it is only but normal for Maharaj to ask for his Sahajdhari male Sikhs to have beards!

4. I am not a judge, you are right, but there is the commandement of Guru Gobind Singh to search Maharaj in bani. For that we need tools and for that we need languages. Prf.Sahib SIngh's satik is by far the most unsatisfying of all as many Sikh scholars have expressed it (see Taran Singh: Gurbani dian Viakhian Pranalian). There are important problems about his satil as it reduces the meaning of a tuk to one meaning only whereas the traditional scholarly institutions of the Panth clearly show that there are different layers of meaning to a line.

Gurbani is like the sky at night. Everyone can look at the stars with the naked eye (majority of the community) and others have astronomical devices. Guru Gobind SIngh wanted these deivices to be accessible to all.

It is a known fact that Guru Gobind SIngh learnt Arabic, Persian, Sanskrit, Hindi, Braj and Panjabi. His compositions show a great mastery of Sanskrit vocabulary.

Sure for the majority of Sikhs it is not so much about looking at each word : it is rather about finding inspiration in gurbani.

But from experience I know that looking at gurbani with the tools I have mentioned makes me realise each and everyday how deep Sikhi is and how divine our Guru s were.

You say the meaning of gurbani is important: so do I. But to understand the meaning you need linguistic tools otherwise you keep guessing and that's dangerous! If you don't know why a star moves in a certain way don't you try to observe it with the proper tools?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amrit above has written:

'Amrit' has QUOTED, and tried to translate.

"Guru Ka Sikh Sahajdhari Rom Kainchee Naal Utraave". At the same time, this Rahatnama says, "Jo Sikh Sahajdhari Hoye Kai, Chehre De Rom Luhaaye, So Bhee Tankhaaheeya". (Kainchee = scissors, Chehre = face).

What about a beard trimmer my friend, set to the closest, so as to just remove the hair from just above the surface ?

Tell what you want to tell about 'a beard trimmer', please. Why are asking me to comment on any beard trimmer? a lots of people trim their beard.

As far an 'Amritdhari' is concerned, I quoted to the 'Rahatnama', ". For an Amritdhari Sikh, The 'Rahatnama Bhaayee Chaupa Singh' says, "Guru Ka Sikh Dehee De Rom Na Luhaaye"."

And why the do away with the shaving stuff, when the ultimate aim of both scissors and the razor is the same.

The 'Rahat' for the 'Sahajdharis' is not created by me. I told what is written in the text. To refute this text, you can quote to another text, if you have read any.

The words anyway used in the Rehatnama is 'Chehre De Rom Luhaaye' as you have said. So what does the term Luhaye mean? Does it only refer to the act of shaving ? depilation? chemical removal?

What is the difference in the meaning of the word Utraave and Luhaye? Can you please give some dictionary references?

Both the words, 'Utraave' and 'Luhaaye', belong to the Punjabi language. The verbs of these words are, 'Utraaona' and 'Luhaaona', correspondingly.

You have asked for some dictionary references. In the 'mahaan kosh', see the word 'Laahe' ('siharee' to 'H'). it gives the meanings, 'Laah ke' and 'Utaar ke'. Thus, we can say that according to 'Mahaan Kosh', both the words relates to each other.

According to the 'Punjabi English Dictionary', published by 'Singh Brothers', Amritsar, edition 2002, these are the meanings of both the words: -

'Utarvaayona' = v. To cause to take off, to relieve, to get unloaded.

'Luhaayona' = v. To get unloaded, to help in unloading.

What does the word 'Rom' refer to ? vi.s hair on which selective part of the body? In the line below t is written 'chehre de rom'. So does it mean the word roam refers to the hair per se of the body, any part.

while quoting the 'Rahatnama', I wrote, "The 'Rahatnama Bhaayee Chaupa Singh' says, "Guru Ka Sikh Dehee De Rom Na Luhaaye". The word 'Dehee' clearly means 'body'. Thus, an Amritdhari is supposed to keep all the hair on his body uncut. (Also see, "Kesdhari Chhaatee De Rom Luhaaye, So Tankhaaheeya"). (Rom = hair, Luhaaye = remove/cut, Chhaatee = chest)"

I clearly wrote that 'Rom = hair'. When I wrote, 'The word 'Dehee' clearly means 'body'', it means 'the hair on all the body'.

Well, if you want some reference to the 'dictinories', here you go: -

If you see the entries of words 'kes', 'vaal' and 'rom' in the 'Mahan Kosh', you will find that Kahan Singh Nabha has used them as synonymous to each other. See the word 'rom' on page 1050, the word 'vaal' on page 1092, and the word 'kes' on page 346.

While giving the meanings of the word 'Kes', the 'Mahan Kosh' says: -

Kes. 'sans.' Kesh. 'sangya' - Sir De Rom.

Thus, according to the 'Mahan Kosh', the word 'kes' means 'the hair on the head'.

According the 'Bhargava's Standard illustrated Dictionary (Hindi-English)', published by 'Bhargava Book Depot', Varanasi, edition 2002, the word 'Kesh' means 'the hair on the head'. (See page 162).

Isnt the first line implying that, we can use scissors to remove all of our hair then, at least the hair from the body (if u think Kesh only refers to the hair on the head, however as lalleshvari has pointed out Mahaan Kosh meaning of Kesh is a bit different.. ).

We? Are you a 'Sahajdhari', as described in the 'Rahatnamas'? Only 'Sahajdharis' are allowed to use scissors. They use it either. An 'Amritdhari' Sikh is not allowed to remove his/her hair, brother.

How the meaning of 'Kes' given by 'Mahan Kosh' is a bit different, please? Doesn't the 'Mahan Kosh' says that 'Kes' means 'Sir De Rom'?

The 'Rahatnamas' are very clear on the point that an 'Amritdhari' is not allowed to remove his/her hair.

Regards.

---------------------------------------------------

'Guru Ka Sikh Kesaan De Ahankaar Kar Sikhi Na Gavaaye'. ('Rahatnama Bhaayee Chaupa Singh').

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Kes' is the first 'Kakaar', according to the 'Sikh Rahat Maryaada'. Thus, an Amritdhari does not remove his/her hair.

But, there is another group, which is called 'Sahajdhari'. My brother lalleshvari and I just said that according to the 'Rahatnamas', they are allowed to cut their hair.

There is another term of 'Patit'. If someone opposes the 'Sahajdhari', first of all he should oppose 'Patits'. If the SGPC does not want to accept 'Sahajdharis', why does it accept money from 'Patits'? Very recently, some 'Patits' have donated the money for the water treatment plant in Sri Amritsar Sahib.

If you can accept 'Patits', how can you reject 'Sahajdharis'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a note Amrit: You are being too aggressive and personal.

I dont like that, I am sure you wont like me in an agressive mood as well. :-) .

I had valid reasons to question your quotes, and I am doing it not for my benefit but fot clarifying things to the young readers of our forum.

Your quotes only lead to more confusion, rather than clarity.

Its good to quote form any place, you want to but then one should have valid arguments to support those quotes. You quote nicely but then at least ponder over them before you make them available to all the readers.

As far as defination of Sehajdhari is concerned, I think it is a complete myth that Sehajdhaari can use scissors but not Ustara to cut his her hair. The aim of both is the same hair removal and doing away with the natural form given by God.

Whay I asked you about Berad Trimmer is, to clarify in which section you would want to put the beard trimmer in ..Ustara or scissors ? as per your of quoted ancient texts.

-----

'Guru Ka Sikh Kesaan De Ahankaar Kar Sikhi Na Gavaaye'. ('Rahatnama Bhaayee Chaupa Singh').

Is Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji only referring to hair on the head ?

Keeping Kesh doesnt make one a sikh, BUT Kesh are an essential part of Sikhi. A Sikh should not be arrogant of anything, neither Kesh, nor knowledge. He has to be humble in any case !!!

You will get a detailed reply to your answers and ahy I questioned your quotations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Javanmard

NO! We are talking about kesh here. If you look for the meaning of a word check its meaning in a dictionnary. The most important source for Sikh definitions in the 20th century is Mahankosh accepted by 99.9 percent of Neo SIkhs. One has to be rigorous regarding the definition of words!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does the defination of "Kesh" say on mohan kosh by Bhai khan singh nabha??

Can you please enlighten us?? I dont have mohan kosh with me...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...