Calling Moderators !!!

[BabbarSher]

Dear Members/Moderators:

I rarely hide my feelings

I am feeling a bit out of place since my link to Kaal Afghaana website was removed under the reasoning that Kaala Afghaana is a herectic.

Can you please tell me, what link I had given and how it was related to Kaala Afghaana. (Very frankly, I have forgotten what link I gave.....if u dont want to publish it , you can PM me)

Now then, I would like to ask you the defination of a Herectic and therafter the names of all the people who have been declared Herectic by the various Jathedar's of Akal Takht.

Isnt a herectic - if there is such a term in sikhi meant to be decided by the Sarbat Khalsa.

Please remember Akal Takht - the Throne of God does not and cannot declare anyone a herectic, its the selfish people who do.

The Jathedar of Akal Takht has banned Kaala Afghaana and so once upon a time Prof. Gurmukh Singh was also banned !!!!

Isnt this the very Jathedar who has advocated the Gurbilaas patshahi Chevi- the most blasphemous book about sikhi.

A large number of sikhs in punjab commit female infanticide, take drugs etc. and we all dont break relations with such people. Since we all dont, we are disobeying Hukamnama issued from Akal Takht.

If the Jathedar Ji is so keen on resolving this conflict, regarding Dasam Granth, why dont they get it resolved at the earliest.

Has anyone on this Forum read the Chartro and Bachittar and if they have why wont they discuss openly. What right do they have to go about passing judgements !!!

Finally people, Moderators are meant to be free of prejudice and bias. When u guys started off, it was really very nice and felt like family.

My humble request, dont break this family by taking side....as I have been saying for the past few months......Brahmanical Vichaar will always take Khalsa back.

If then again u think that people with views such as mine are NOT welcome anylonger, please do let me know. I will leave without a word, alhtough it would hurt me a whole lot.

Akal Sahai

Babbar Sher

P.S. Would appreciate a quick reply

[Guest Javanmard]

Gubilas P6 is a brillinat book! hehehehehhehehehhehe

[Ideal Singh]

Take it easy Babber Shera...

Moderation is a pretty tough & thanklerss job (even though I have never done any moderation )... Sikhawareness.com is always under the microscope for its open source nature... I mean flexible moderation where you can post & share just about anything... anylink for that matter... so, if for some odd reasons something, which may not be acceptable for the health of website, is removed, we should take it in our stride... no big deal babber shera... I am proud to be a member of this forum with members like you... cheers.

Chardi Kalaa...

[Guest]

Dear Babbar Sher Ji,

Can you read and understand Sri Dasam Granth Sahib without any translation? Can you read the original Gur Bilas Paatshahi 6? If we reject 'Apuni Katha' in Sri Dasam Granth, what will be the source of history of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Don't you think that ALL the old Sikh history books, for example 'Mahma Prakaash', 'Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth', 'Gur Bilas' by Sukha Singh, 'Gur Bilas' by Koyer Singh, 'Panth Prakaash' by Ratan Singh Bhangu, 'Panth Parkaash' by Giani Gian Singh', are based only and only on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib?

Do you know that before Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana, another writer wrote a book 'Dasam Granth Nirnai' against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib? Do you know there was a person behind that writer, who is now there behind Kala Afghana? Do you think this person did not write any part of Kala Afghana's or Bhaag Singh's books?

Isnt this the very Jathedar who has advocated the Gurbilaas patshahi Chevi- the most blasphemous book about sikhi.

There is different between 'advocated' and 'edited'. Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti is not the first person, who has edited the book. And, did you read what Giani Joginder Singh wrote?

Has anyone on this Forum read the Chartro and Bachittar

Have you read the 'Pakhiyaan Charitra'? Don't say you read the translation by Narain Singh or other, please.

If 'Pakhiyaan Charitra' is not the Gurbani, then what will we do with 'Benti Chaupai'?

My humble request, dont break this family by taking side....

Taking side? Someone continues to criticise the Baanee of 'Nitnem', and a Sikh will not take side? Are the moderators not Sikhs?

Will they allow if someone posts from Babu Teja Singh and his gang's writing here? I mean if someone has doubt about 'Bhagat Baanee', 'Bhatt Baanee', will the moderators allow to post messages against the 'Baanee' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib? If they do not, as they should, will you call it 'taking side'?

And please tell us, if excommunicating Babu Teja Singh was a right decision or not? I would be glad if you, please, tell us, if ban on 'Ramraiye' or 'Dheermaliye' was a right decisioin or not?

Regards.

[Guest Javanmard]

I love you Amrit Veerji!!!

[Guest]

I know. Every Sikh loves other Sikh. Thus, I love you too.

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

saadh sangat baikunthai aahi ||4||10||

The Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is heaven.

[BabbarSher]

Can you read and understand Sri Dasam Granth Sahib without any translation?

I have read Dasam Granth Baanis. In all my posts I have ONLY doubted Charitro and Bachittar Natak. Care to discuss these ??

Can you read the original Gur Bilas Paatshahi 6?

I have read the original Gurbilaas Pathshai Chevin. Kaala Afghaan's book only quotes from the original, I think...can you deny the existence of unsikhi episodes in the original Gurbilaas.

Given the depth of your scholarly knwoledge, can you write a befitting reply to Kala Afghaana. You can start of with the first couple of objections he raises, and this shouldnt take much time.

It will be of imeense benefit to the entire sikh jagat and we will be rid of Kaala Afghaana's views forever.

(Please dont do a shoddy work like the guys at http://srec.info ..or soemthing on the way they explain Bachittar natak)

If we reject 'Apuni Katha' in Sri Dasam Granth, what will be the source of history of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

History of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Why do you need to know about it ? And why do u need to know about the previous lives of Guru Ji? Do you belive that one has to do extreme penance in the Himalyas to achive God.

Do you think that Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji would go on Pilgrimages and give daan on the birth of his son.....

Don't you think that ALL the old Sikh history books, for example 'Mahma Prakaash', 'Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth', 'Gur Bilas' by Sukha Singh, 'Gur Bilas' by Koyer Singh, 'Panth Prakaash' by Ratan Singh Bhangu, 'Panth Parkaash' by Giani Gian Singh', are based only and only on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib?

Have you read these books. I have posted from these very books only in another post on this Forum why Dasam Granth is our not our Guru.

Do you know that before Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana, another writer wrote a book 'Dasam Granth Nirnai' against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib?

Yes I know. Do you know the contents of the book and what Baanis they criticise.

Do you know there was a person behind that writer, who is now there behind Kala Afghana? Do you think this person did not write any part of Kala Afghana's or Bhaag Singh's books?

Whats the point ? I am not a faithful defender of Kaala Afghaan. I have mentioned again and again that he can make mistakes but is not totally wrong. I cant help it if u dont read my posts carefully. Please can we have the name of the person and his intentions.

Quote:

Isnt this the very Jathedar who has advocated the Gurbilaas patshahi Chevi- the most blasphemous book about sikhi.

There is different between 'advocated' and 'edited'. Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti is not the first person, who has edited the book. And, did you read what Giani Joginder Singh wrote?

Yes, I have read what he wote. Care to make a posting from that for the benefit of our readers...as well as what the other people advocated/edited

Quote:

Has anyone on this Forum read the Chartro and Bachittar

Have you read the 'Pakhiyaan Charitra'? Don't say you read the translation by Narain Singh or other, please.

If 'Pakhiyaan Charitra' is not the Gurbani, then what will we do with 'Benti Chaupai'?

This is a most absurd reason that has been time and again given by lalleshvari

Just because Benti Chaupai is from Charitro doesnt make that Baani. There has been a controversy from the starting regarding this.

I have read the pakhiyaan Charitra and in my discussion with Khalsa soulja on this topic had quoted extensively on the same.

If you want we can discuss the objections to the same in this very forum, I am ready anytime you are.

Please dont give me lectures on Victorian prudence and all that ... ;-)

Quote:

My humble request, dont break this family by taking side....

Taking side? Someone continues to criticise the Baanee of 'Nitnem', and a Sikh will not take side? Are the moderators not Sikhs?

You can have people like lalleshvari say ........yay to Chariro and that is not censored, yet the other people cannot even make their point.

You can have him quote from Rahitnamas which give Brahmanical practices.

You can have people openly give their views on Guru Nanak Dev Ji and how he want to saudi for Hajj.

Why thats not unsikhi......!!!!

Which Baani of Nitnem have I crtiticised. Do u mean the Benti Chaupai ?? Yes I dont belive thats Baani cause its a part of Charitro

Will they allow if someone posts from Babu Teja Singh and his gang's writing here? I mean if someone has doubt about 'Bhagat Baanee', 'Bhatt Baanee', will the moderators allow to post messages against the 'Baanee' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib? If they do not, as they should, will you call it 'taking side'?

I have never doubted Guru Granth Sahib. the simple reason is that it has been compiled by the Gurus themselves and we have no reason to doubt it

If the same had been done by Guru Gobind Singh Ji about Dasam Granth, there would have been no dounts. But as you can see from writing sin panth Prakash by Ginai Gian Singh and Bansavalinama, Guru Maharaj himself rejected the request of sikhs to form a Granth of even his genuine Baani, what to say of compiling Charirtro with baani of Guru Maharaj and making it a Granth and giving it the name of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

And please tell us, if excommunicating Babu Teja Singh was a right decision or not? I would be glad if you, please, tell us, if ban on 'Ramraiye' or 'Dheermaliye' was a right decisioin or not?

A person who objects to Guru Granth Sahib is not a sikh anyways. If Babau Teja Singh did that he was not a sikh.

Guru Ji himslef forbid association with Dheermalliye and Ramraiye, so I hold that valid as Hukam from the Guru.

What about our present day Babas who distort Gurbaani and sing Kacchi baani.

You have posed a lot of counterquestions to my questions and I have answerd them. Now its time to address the questions which I have given.

[BabbarSher]

Gubilas P6 is a brillinat book! hehehehehhehehehhehe

Goes on to proove what you are !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BabbarSher]

Ideal Singh:

Thanks for the nice words man BUT at least the Moderators should tell me what links I had given and how they are harmful. If they proove their points. I will not stretch the debate needlessly.

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

LOL, Man I am getting so sicken tired of this...This issue is what divides us sikhs even more than just a "censoring a Kala Afghana Link"...

Its funny - I could *blab* on here forever about priorities Sikhs have than before getting nit-grity...But then again, I've sort of come to know that arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win - you are still a retard..LOL! ( I apologize if I offend anyone by these lines, but just giving a mere example..+ Don't be offended LOL, Cuz I was too stuck in Spec. Ed. once upon a time) .

I mean seriously I hate to contradict my self here, BabberSher ..... "Goes on to proove what you are" ..- LOL ...You just ..sort of lowered your own self...

Settle with each other's differences...Why do you have to mock??

Sorry to scute in this conversation..but keep it safe and fair and balance...It grosses me out -(Right Rochak?)

[mehtab]

Rupy Posted

Sorry to scute in this conversation..but keep it safe and fair and balance...It grosses me out -(Right Rochak?)

sooraj poorb di bajaaye pashchim ton nikkal aawe, bakri kutte nu paida karay, majj dudd di bajaaye daaru deni shuru kar dewe, iljaam Rochak te hi auna , Rochak na ho gaya osama bin laden ho gaya ...never mind this post, and dont worry about the Punjabi :cry:

[Guest]

I have read Dasam Granth Baanis. In all my posts I have ONLY doubted Charitro and Bachittar Natak. Care to discuss these ??

Really?

What does you mean by 'Bachitra Natak'? Only 'Apuni Katha' or other compositions too which are considered part of 'Bachitra Natak'? I think you have doubts only about 'Apuni Katha' and 'Pakhiyaan Charitra'.

Did you read these lines in 'Apuni Katha' (Bachittar Natak): -

"Pahle Chandee Charitra Banaayo. Nakh Sikh Te Kram Bhaakh Sunaayo.

Chhor Katha Tab Pratham Sunaayee. Ab Chaahat Phir Karon Badaayee."

(Earlier also the story of 'Chandi' has been made/written and the descriptions form top to bottom have been told. First, I have told the beginning/old story. Now again, I desire to eulogize). (Stanza 11, chapter 14).

What does it mean? Doesn't it mean that the 'Apuni Katha' is written by the same poet/writer, who wrote 'Chandi Charitra Ukt Bilas' and 'Chandi Charitra (second)'?

If you have ONLY doubted Charitra Pakhiyaan and Bachittar Natak, then it means you believe that other compositions in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib are considered the Gurbani by you. If you believe that 'Chandi Charitra' (both) are written by Guru Gobind Singh Jee, then you must accept the fact that 'Apuni Katha' also is written by Guru Gobind Singh Jee, because it is very clear that the author of 'Apuni Katha' is the person, who wrote both of the 'Chandi Charitras'.

If you have doubts only about the 'Charitro Paakhiyaan' and 'Bachittar Natak', then it means you have no doubts about 'Giyan Prabodh'. Let us see what the author of 'Giyan Prabodh' says: -

"Kahee Naatak Madh Charitra Katha".

Thus, the author of 'Giyaan Prabodh' is the person, who wrote the 'Charitra' of 'Kaikayee' in 'Naatak', i.e. 'Bachitra Naatak', which was once the original name of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee.

Still you claim that you have read Sri Dasam Granth Sahib's Baanee. Let the moderators and the visitors guess whether you have read the 'Dasam Granth Baanis' or not.

I have read the original Gurbilaas Pathshai Chevin. Kaala Afghaan's book only quotes from the original, I think...

Which edition of 'Gurbilaas Paatshaahee 6' have you read, my brother? There are several editions of this book.

You have used 'I think', when you said that Kaala Afghaana's book quotes the original 'Gurbilaas'. Does it mean you have read the original 'Gurbilaas' through Kaala Afghaana's book or…?

can you deny the existence of unsikhi episodes in the original Gurbilaas.

Un-sikhi episodes? You youself has written, "I am not a faithful defender of Kaala Afghaan. I have mentioned again and again that he can make mistakes but is not totally wrong". Not totally wrong? Does it mean he is wrong in some degree? Does 'wrong in some degree' mean 'some un-Sikhi' episodes?

My brother! Had you read the original 'Gur Bilaas Paatshaahee 6' edited by Giani Joginder Singh and Dr. Amarjeet Singh, you would not have said this. In their edition of 'Gur Bilaas', both the editors have given examples how the original text was changed by some person/s. Please read the pages 75/76/77. You have said to me, "I can't help it if u don't read my posts carefully". May I replace the words 'my posts' to 'the books' and then use for you?

Given the depth of your scholarly knwoledge, can you write a befitting reply to Kala Afghaana. You can start of with the first couple of objections he raises, and this shouldnt take much time.

Let the readers make a decision, whether there is any sarcasms in your these lines or not.

I have no 'scholarly knowledge'. I am just a slave of the scholar, who is the author of Sri Dasam Granth's compositions. The scholars know that he had great 'scholarly knowledge'.

As far 'a befitting reply to Kala Afghana' is concerned, it is not any big job. Some of my brothers have given the reply: -

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/kala.php

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/And...na_aakhiyan.pdf

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/dul...ay_vidhvaan.pdfhttp://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/AIS..._KYA_KAHIYE.pdf

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/Ope...2KalaAfgana.pdf

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/Bip...ru_hathyaar.pdf

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/Kal...a_nu_phobia.pdf

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/Lal...llaliaanRab.pdf

I have been working on other projects, in which the points raised by Teja Singh Bhasuar's group, Bhaag Singh and Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana will be discussed, with the help of the Guru.

By the way, Did Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana care to give reply to 'the reply to Bhaag Singh' by Bhaayee Sahib Harbans Singh Jee (through the book 'Dasam Granth Darpan')? Don't you think Gurbaksh Singh should have given reply to the points raised by Bhaayee Harbans Singh, because the book by Bhaayee Harbans Singh was a reply to Bhaag Singh? Don't you think Gurbaksh Singh just repeated the points of Bhaag Singh, which were already answered by Bhaayee Harbans Singh? If Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana and you do not care to answer Bhaayee Harbans Singh's book, why do you expect from us to give reply to Kala Afghana?

(Baba Santa Singh Nihang wrote the introduction of the book 'Dasam Granth Darpan' by Bhaayee Sahib Harbans Singh Jee. It was before 1984 AD. I think Baba Santa Singh also gave him money to publish the book. On the other hand, some famous Sikh-organizations did nothing to refute Bhaag Singh).

It will be of imeense benefit to the entire sikh jagat and we will be rid of Kaala Afghaana's views forever.

No, no, my brother, these are not VIEWS. Theoretically, it is 'SHARAARAT' (mischief), and a 'sharaarat' must be replied in a 'sharaarat'. When his gang was doing 'sharaarat' (so-called 'Sikh Sammelan' in Mohali), the police was providing them with full security, so some of my brothers could not give reply in 'sharaarat'. The police did not allow me to go even near the building, where Kala Afghana's gang was doing 'sharaarat'. The Police asked me to show the invitation card. What kind of this 'Sharaarat' was? They invited there supporters only, and called it 'Vishva Sikh Sammelan'. It was a big 'sharaarat'.

My brothers do 'sharaarat'. Piyaara Singh Bhaniyaara waala knows it. One of my brothers did 'sharaarat' with him in Ambala court.

(Please dont do a shoddy work like the guys at http://srec.info ..or soemthing on the way they explain Bachittar natak)

The link does not work.

History of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Why do you need to know about it ?

Is this your real intention? You think we should not know our history?

My brother, the Gurbani says, "Baabaaneeyaan Kahaaneeyaan Put Sput Karen". (Page 951, Sri Guru Granth Sahib).

And why do u need to know about the previous lives of Guru Ji?

Why don't we need?

It is useful to know that "Jug Jug Satgur Dhare Avtaaree". (Bhaayee Sahib Gurdaas Jee).

Do you belive that one has to do extreme penance in the Himalyas to achive God.

Do you believe that one has to do penance sitting on the bed of stones and eating 'Akk' (Punjabi word for 'calotropis procera calotropis gigantea') to achieve God?

Guru Nanak Dev Jee did so. "Ret Akk Ahaar Kar, Rorhaan Kee Gur Karee Vichhaayee. Bhaaree Karee Tapassiya, Vadhhe Bhaag Har Son Ban Aayee" (Bhaayee Sahib Gurdaas Jee).

What is the difference between 'Bhaaree Karee Tapassiya'(as did Guru Nanak Dev Jee) and 'Taih Ham Adhik Tapassiya Saadhee' (as did Guru Gobind Singh jee in his previous life)? (Originally, this argument was given by Bhaayee Harbans Singh Jee).

Do you think that Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji would go on Pilgrimages and give daan on the birth of his son.....

Try to understand what this line of Gurbani is saying, "Teerath Udam Satgur Keeya Sabh Lok Udhran Arthaa". (Page 1116). This is applicable on Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib also. Also try to understand the meanings of this line of Gurbani, "Har Aap Kartai Purab Keeya, Satgur Kulkhet NAAVAN Gayeyaa". (Page 1116, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee).

Do you believe that one should not distribute something on birth of his son?

Have you read these books. I have posted from these very books only in another post on this Forum why Dasam Granth is our not our Guru.

I teach these books. I have translated some chapters of Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth in Punjabi. All of these books are there in my personal collection. And many more, my brother.

You yourself wrote in other thread you mentioned, "The following article has been taken from Sikhbulletin and I have tried to translate some of it to English for the benefit of many readers. The translation may be a bit poor, so please excuse".

Translating an article does not mean you are quoting to the original books, which have been quoted in that article. While quoting 'Bansaavalee-naama', you have misled the readers.

Yes I know. Do you know the contents of the book and what Baanis they criticise.

Then please read the book, which was written as a reply to that book. Had you read the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Bansaavalee-naama', you would not have made such posts.

Whats the point ?

What is the point? Both of his clients were excommunicated. Both of his customers wrote against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Both of his customers tried to destroy the 'Amrit Sanchaar' techniques. Both of his customers settled down out of Punjab. And you see no point?

I am not a faithful defender of Kaala Afghaan.

'Faithful defender of Kala Afghana'? I did not use the words 'faithful' and 'defender' for you. I know you are not.

I have mentioned again and again that he can make mistakes but is not totally wrong.

'Not totally wrong'? Because he used the lines from Sri Sarabloh Granth? What do you think about Sarabloh Granth? Is it the Gurbani or not? Is it reliable or not?

I cant help it if u dont read my posts carefully.

I have been replying to your posts only in this thread. Where have I had debate with you on this topic in another thread? In your first post, to which I was replying, you did not say that Kala Afghana can make mistakes but is not totally wrong.

May I say that you do not read your own posts carefully?

Please can we have the name of the person and his intentions.

Sure, you can. Just take part in the press conferences held by Kala Afghana's group. You will find him there. And his intentions are very clear. Just try to understand what Bhaag Singh Ambala tried in Delhi during 'Amrit Sanchaars' and what Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana is trying.

Yes, I have read what he wote. Care to make a posting from that for the benefit of our readers...as well as what the other people advocated/edited

Why don't you make posting from that? Is it because you did NOT read the book? Well, I will make a post either.

This is a most absurd reason that has been time and again given by lalleshvari

Just because Benti Chaupai is from Charitro doesnt make that Baani. There has been a controversy from the starting regarding this.

I have read the pakhiyaan Charitra and in my discussion with Khalsa soulja on this topic had quoted extensively on the same.

You are attacking on Amrit Sanchaar's tradition saying that 'Benti Chaupai' is not the Gurbani, even then you say 'absurd reason' by lalleshvari Jee?

The point is that 'Benti Chaupai' is a Baanee, which is recited during the 'Amrit Sanchaar' and a part of 'Nitnem'. Who dared to add this composition to 'Amrit Baanees' and 'Nitnem Baanees', if this was not the Gurbanee? The Singhs in 'Kabul' recite this 'Baanee', the Singhs in 'Kashmir' recite this Baanee the Singhs in 'Karnataka' recite this 'Baanee', the Singhs in Dhhaka recite this Baanee, The Singhs in 'Asam' recite this Baanee. How did it happen that in those difficult days, when there were no such means of transportation, all the Singhs added this composition suddenly?

If you want we can discuss the objections to the same in this very forum, I am ready anytime you are.

I am ready to DISCUSS, as I have always been; but what you are doing is not DISCUSS, it is an attack on the 'Amrit Sanchaar Maryada' and the tradition. Even then, we can handle with such attacks, as we already did when Teja Singh or Bhaag Singh attacked. Don't you think an attack should be replied in counter-attack? No problem.

It depends on the SikhAwareness team, whether it allows the slandering of the Gurbani and Sikh tradition or not.

Please dont give me lectures on Victorian prudence and all that ... ;-)

Victorian prudence? What is this? Did I use this term in any of posts in this forum?

Dear brother, it is a discussion forum, not lecture-forum. And, I do not give lectures to people whom I do not know. Lectures are impressive only when delivered face to face. We can deliver lectures to each other face-to-face either. I think you are in 'Uttar Pardesh'. It is not so far from Punjab. We can meet anywhere in Haryana. In October or November, I am planning a tour. We can meet even in 'Uttar Pardesh'. Do you live in 'Merath'?

You can have people like lalleshvari say ........yay to Chariro and that is not censored, yet the other people cannot even make their point.

You can say 'Wow! Japji Sahib'. I think that will not be censored.

You can have him quote from Rahitnamas which give Brahmanical practices. You can have people openly give their views on Guru Nanak Dev Ji and how he want to saudi for Hajj.

Why thats not unsikhi......!!!!

Some parts of Rahatnamas have been criticized. No Problem. No one says these are the Gurbani.

Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana has been excommunicated by Sri Akaal Takht Sahib. His writings are not allowed in Sikh libraries. How can a Sikh website allow his writings to be discussed? Sri Akaal Takht Sahib has judged that his writings are anti-Sikh. How can a pro-Sikh website allow an anti-Sikh material? Should a Sikh website follow the 'Panth' or Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana, who has already been excommunicated?

Get an 'Hukamnaama' from Sri Akaal Takht Sahib against the 'Rahatnamas'. I think, then, no Sikh website will allow the material from 'Rahatnamas' either.

Which Baani of Nitnem have I crtiticised. Do u mean the Benti Chaupai ?? Yes I dont belive thats Baani cause its a part of Charitro

What does it make difference if you do not believe that 'Benti Chaupai' is not the Gurbanee? Did it make any difference when Babu Teja Singh Bhasaurh said that he did not believe that 'Bhagat Baanee' and 'Bhatt Baanee' is not the part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

I have never doubted Guru Granth Sahib. the simple reason is that it has been compiled by the Gurus themselves and we have no reason to doubt it

If the same had been done by Guru Gobind Singh Ji about Dasam Granth, there would have been no dounts. But as you can see from writing sin panth Prakash by Ginai Gian Singh and Bansavalinama, Guru Maharaj himself rejected the request of sikhs to form a Granth of even his genuine Baani, what to say of compiling Charirtro with baani of Guru Maharaj and making it a Granth and giving it the name of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

We cannot create categories for anti-Gurbani people. For example, there cannot be 'category 1' for those, who oppose only 'Bhagat Baanee'; 'category 2' for those, who oppose only 'Apni Katha'; 'category 3', for those who oppose only 'Charitro-Paakhiyaan', 'category 4', for those, who oppose both 'Apuni Katha' and 'Charitro-Paakhiyaan'; 'category 5' for those, who oppose Sri Dasam Granth, but not Sri Guru Granth Sahib, etc.

As far 'Bansaavali-naama' is concerned, it clearly indicates that the compositions were already compiled in a single volume (Granth): -

"Greeb Nivaaz, Jo Bachan Hovai, Taan DOHAAN Granthaan Dee Jild Ik Chaheeyai Kar Leetee".

(Stanza 389, tenth 'charan').

('Dohaan' = two)

Thus, it is clear that there were two 'Granths'. One of them was 'Aad Guru Granth'. (See your own translation in another thread. Here, I repeat one of my lines in this post, 'May I say that you do not read your own posts carefully?').

It is very strange that you are quoting two totally different statements to prove your statement in another thread. One says there were TWO 'Granths', other says there were not. Which one is the older source, 'Bansaavali-naama' or 'Panth Parkaash' (Giani Gian Singh)? The 'Bansaavali-nama' was written in 1769 AD, and 'Panth Parkaash' was written in 1878 AD. Thus, 'Panth Parkaash' was written 109 years after 'Bansaavali-naama'. Both of the books say that the 'Apuni Katha' etc are the Gurbani.

Both the books, Bansaavali-naama and Panth Parkaash, agree to the fact that 'Bachitra Naatak' is the Gurbani. 'Bansaavalinaama' has quoted 'Apuni Katha' for several times. How can one quote to these books to slander Sri Dasam Granth Sahib? Still you claim that you have read the books.

A person who objects to Guru Granth Sahib is not a sikh anyways. If Babau Teja Singh did that he was not a sikh.

A person, who objects to the Gurbani, is not a Sikh. 'Baanee Guru, Guru Hai Baanee', thus, he, who slanders 'Baanee', actually slanders 'Guru'. Only the 'Panth' under Sri Akal Takht has the right to decide whether someone is a Sikh or not. The 'Panth' has already decided that Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana is not a Sikh. Who cares about you and me?

Guru Ji himslef forbid association with Dheermalliye and Ramraiye, so I hold that valid as Hukam from the Guru.

Where has it been written? Please provide the references. Then, we will discuss further. Make sure that your reference is compiled by the Guru himself, otherwise, according to you, there could be 'reasons' to doubt it, if it is not compiled by Guru himself.

What about our present day Babas who distort Gurbaani and sing Kacchi baani.

Go to any such Baba in his 'Deevan' and you will get the 'reply' then and there. I do not represent any of them, so I cannot answer for them.

You have posed a lot ofcounterquestions to my questions and I have answerd them. Now its time to address the questions which I have given.

You can see by yourself that your claim of understanding/reading of Sri Dasam Granth and other old literature is proved wrong by your own statements. Thus, you did not answer my all questions. Rather you did Besmear.

Rest is up to the readers. Let them make their minds.

[Guest Javanmard]

It fills my heart with joy to see young educated Gursikhs like Amrit Ji defending puratan and true Sikhi with such fervour and intellectual rigour. My head for you brother!!!!!

[Guest]

Let me make it clear.

We will not allow any of Kala Afghana's books discussion. Kala Afghana is excommunicated by Sri Akaal Takht Sahib and we respect this decision. Please use PM if you want to discuss about him and his writings with any particular member of our site.

This discussion is locked now and please don't start another one.

"LOCKED"