laalsingh Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 laalsingh bach ke reh sin is heavy in your palla with these blasphemous remarks! BTW Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, in Satgur Dasam Granth Sahib. And if you question Satguru Dasam Granth then a question mark will be blatantly seen over your remarks and scholarly authenticity. From now onward am not posting anything negative about any figure respected by other communities. If moderators find it insulting in previous posts, they can remove it. I was just responding to some statements about sufis' bani in SGGS. I think SGGS again shows us way here, "Dont say anything about controversial figures which are respected by other communities." Still I could not find any refrence about Mohamad in Dasam Granth. Are you talking about Mahadin in Bachitar Natak? Or somewhere else? As a sikh we should be aware what our masters said about other religous figures. Please let me know. Another thing, did you say [highlight=red:22d5d1fb1e]Satgur[/highlight:22d5d1fb1e] Dasam Granth? Bhul Chuk Maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Laal Singh, what are your thoughts on the following reference to Mohammed Sahib and Muslims: ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Shaheediyan, I will try to locate a more definite reference for you, however in the meantime, I trust the following will help you with your own searches: As you may be aware, Gurdwara Baba Atal Sahib in the earlier parts of last century was used as a cremation ground and had surrounding it numerous "samadhs", particularly for notable Sardars, Sants and Warriors. Following the Gurdwara being taken over by the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee in August 1921, in order to widen the "parikrama", the majority of these samadhs were demolished, fuelled in part by the rationale described above, that Sikhi does not permit one to worship Samadhs and Graves. Bhai Vir Singh is reported to have admonished this act stating that whilst Sikhi doesn't permit worshipping Samadhs etc, those that existed were a memory to great personalities worth honouring and this act is akin to immense disrespect. I believe amongst those that are still to be found include those belonging to Jassa Singh Ahluvalia and Nawab Kapur Singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Laal Singh, you asked/wrote: "Do you really want me post this erotic story?" I think we are all adults here, so why not - please bring forward your sources. "You don't hear word 'context' with Buddha and Jesus's life histories that much" This doesn't nullify the need for putting things in context! I can find numerous shabds (From the Sri Guru Granth Sahib) for you which will make items of Rehit such as keeping Kesh, giving Daswand, wearing kakkars etc seem unnecessary and even 'anti-Sikhi" yet you will be the first to argue for keeping things in context. I fail to understand the rationale behind your statement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 i always find it hilarious when people say "i only trust the Guru Granth sahib and i only want sources from the Guru", even though we are all aware that Guru Granth SAhib is not history book, lawguide or anything else. there are plenty of refferences to Muhammad in Dasam Granth and the vaars of Bhai Gurdass yet you seem to reject them all as if you have the authority to pick and choose whatever you like. tell me this. if Muhammad was a false prophet, and the gurus were sorrounded by people that thought him to be a genuine prophet, would they not DIRECTLY have stated that he was'ent a prophet?? the fact that Gurbani does'nt say anywhere that Prophet Muhammad was a false prophet and the Quran/vedas are false, implies that they thought them to be authentic divinely reavealed books.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Laal Singh, what are your thoughts on the following reference to Mohammed Sahib and Muslims: ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Gurujit telling Vashnave how to be real vashnav (pg 272) ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਜਿਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥ ਕਾਹੂ ਫਲ ਕੀ ਇਛਾ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਛੈ ॥ ਕੇਵਲ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਚੈ ॥ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥ ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਓਹੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ Guruji telling muslims how to be real muslim. (pg 141) ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Guruji telling Pandit how to be real Pandit.(pg 274) ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਬਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਮੂਲ ॥ ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥ Guruji telling Yogis how to be real Yogi (Pg 908) ਸਰਮੈ ਦੀਆ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਕੰਨੀ ਪਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਰਿ ਤੂ ਦਇਆ ॥ ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ਲਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਣ ਜਿਣਿ ਲਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਐਸੀ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਵਜਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਵਾਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਪਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਝੋਲੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਧਿਆਨ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਵਜਾਈ ॥੨॥ ਮਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਲਪਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਚੜਹਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਸਚੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥ ਭਉ ਭਾਉ ਦੁਇ ਪਤ ਲਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਇਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਤਾ ਤੰਤੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਖੰਡੀ ॥੫॥ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝੈ ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹੀਐ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥ਸਹਸਾ ਤੂਟੈ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਏ ॥੬॥ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Kharag Singh Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 laalsingh bach ke reh sin is heavy in your palla with these blasphemous remarks! BTW Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, in Satgur Dasam Granth Sahib. And if you question Satguru Dasam Granth then a question mark will be blatantly seen over your remarks and scholarly authenticity. From now onward am not posting anything negative about any figure respected by other communities. If moderators find it insulting in previous posts, they can remove it. I was just responding to some statements about sufis' bani in SGGS. I think SGGS again shows us way here, "Dont say anything about controversial figures which are respected by other communities." Still I could not find any refrence about Mohamad in Dasam Granth. Are you talking about Mahadin in Bachitar Natak? Or somewhere else? As a sikh we should be aware what our masters said about other religous figures. Please let me know. Another thing, did you say [highlight=red:606ee29ccd]Satgur[/highlight:606ee29ccd] Dasam Granth? Bhul Chuk Maaf Yes i did say Satgur Dasam Granth, Koi bimaari? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Laal Singh, you asked/wrote: "Do you really want me post this erotic story?" I think we are all adults here, so why not - please bring forward your sources. "You don't hear word 'context' with Buddha and Jesus's life histories that much" This doesn't nullify the need for putting things in context! I can find numerous shabds (From the Sri Guru Granth Sahib) for you which will make items of Rehit such as keeping Kesh, giving Daswand, wearing kakkars etc seem unnecessary and even 'anti-Sikhi" yet you will be the first to argue for keeping things in context. I fail to understand the rationale behind your statement. Yes, things need to be seen in context to understand full meaning. But some people starts using this excuse for every misdeed of their prophets. What I understood from Gurbani is rituals should never get preference over Lord's naam. Lot of sangat go to Gurudwara, take off shoes, wash hands, look around if any of friend/relatives is there, bow in front of SGGS, go to langar, chat with somebody and then come back home. Do they hear any word from SGGS? If they miss Shabad Guru, then we are just lost in rituals. I may be wrong and I wish I am wrong. Bhul chuk Maaf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 [quote="laalsingh Still I could not find any refrence about Mohamad in Dasam Granth. Are you talking about Mahadin in Bachitar Natak? Or somewhere else? As a sikh we should be aware what our masters said about other religous figures. Please let me know. Another thing, did you say [highlight=red:9a7d083f4d]Satgur[/highlight:9a7d083f4d] Dasam Granth? Bhul Chuk Maaf Yes i did say Satgur Dasam Granth, Koi bimaari? Yes i did say Satgur Dasam Granth, Koi bimaari? Gurmukho, Thank you for wishing me well. I wish you good health. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Kharag Singh Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yes i did say Satgur Dasam Granth, Koi bimaari? Gurmukho, Thank you for wishing me well. I wish you good health. LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, Where? i couldn't find any....apart from Mahadeen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I feel quite happy to have a Guru that all religions claim is their own!!!! I mean do any Christians say Muhammad was theirs?NO!!!! yet it seems most religions want to claim Guru NAnak for themselves. Let them be: I think that's what makes SIkhi unique!!! wow thats fascinating :wink: lol, I cant help but chuckle everytime I read this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Lall singh you didn't answer my 'specific' question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Lall singh you didn't answer my 'specific' question. I gave you instances from SGGS, where it speaks to yogis, vaishnavs, pundits and muslims. This is one of those instances. SGGS is telling muslims to stay muslims and emphasizes upon accepting His Hukam. SGGS speaks to various sects and everytime it states that His Hukam and Naam should be above rituals. That makes SGGS universal and appealing to every human irrespective of ethnity or religion. Still there is no mention of 'Mohamad'. Bhul Chuk Maaf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Laa Singh, could you please advise who is being refered to here then? ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Laa Singh, could you please advise who is being refered to here then? ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ Yes, he has been refered for indirectly atleast one more time I know. Shaheediyan, I have a question? Why in over 1400 hundred of pannas of SGGS we never hear name Mohamad even once (while addressing muslims, he has been refered indirectly more than one time though)? SGGS contains bani from many muslims. Why not any writing of Mohamad? Does that mean Gurus never thought Koran's writings are as per Gurmat? I don't know the answer. Share your thoughts with me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 With regards to Gurbani containing Quranic verses, why would they? The Quranic message was already existant across around 1/3rd of the inhabited world...why would Guru Maharaj need to duplicate that message? Guru Ji makes it clear that Hindus and Muslims (in general) had lost their way and understanding of their faiths, but at the same time included the bani of "true" examples of both, including the followers of Mohammed Sahib. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Laal Singh Ji, Yes, I agree and this is true of many other people, present and past, from all walks of life (religious schools) who have searched their soul (so to say) within the context and framework of their respective faiths/schools and found a higher truth i.e. St Francis of Assisi, Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, Shri Chaitanya – note this is my personal opinion. Following on, I do believe that the Semetic and Indic faiths have been divinely inspired and when given time, do like to read and learn about them, contemplate their message in contrast to Gurbani, I have respect for them, but my allegiance and Guru Supreme is Aad Guru – Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It's not for me to say what is and isn't divine, nor is my opinion important, personally, when I find a message that reflects that of Gurbani in another school/faith, it inspires me, and gives tangible evidence to the thought that Vaheguru's glory and light is found in all people... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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