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sumra

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i included a fact on hinduism, i have not added a single alphabet from my side but only quoted from their vedas, puranas(matsya purana, bhagwat puran) and if you ask any learned hindu(bahmans/brahmans, as 99% will say they have never ever read what their scriptures say, they only follow blindly), they will say that each and everything is true.

(1)If what i said is untrue(plz check by yourself, as you are moderator of this site and so a very learned person), i will apologise for what i said.

(2)I am only trying to tell the facts of these bahmans, and I am not saying anything publicly like what they are doing in India by including it in course curriculum of 10th, 11th and 12 th standard and what is absolutely untrue

"[T]he contribution of Sikhs to that phase of Indian history has been wiped out!"

The Hindu(Sunday, Dec 02, 2001 )

Brahmins under Murli Joshi remove references to Sikhism from Textbooks

Sunday, Dec 02, 2001

Excising the truth

What do the removed portions say? Anita Joshua finds out.

``AS THE study of history at this stage is intended to initiate the pupil into the rigours of the discipline, it is necessary to introduce him/her to the elements of historical methodology, of how the historian works. For this he/she should be acquainted with the various kinds of sources which form the raw materials of historical studies. The pupil may be encouraged to study the sources critically...''

This is a point made by the National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) in its three-page rationale for the new higher secondary history syllabus. If familiarity with various historical sources is to be encouraged, then what did Prof. Satish Chandra do wrong. Unless, of course, the NCERT Director, Dr. J. S. Rajput, uses the same lexicon as that of the Union Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, Mr. Pramod Mahajan, where ``rapine'' has something to do with rape, and source has a different meaning.

After all, the portions found to be objectionable in Prof. Chandra's book on Medieval India for Class XI have been picked from various sources. Be it the reference to Guru Tegh Bahadur resorting to ``plunder and rapine'' or the mention of his execution being the result of ``intrigues of some members of his family who disputed his succession'', both are not the author's viewpoints. While the former is from a Persian source, Prof. Chandra quotes from a Sikh tradition in the case of the latter.

If anything, Prof. Chandra has spoken very highly of Guru Tegh Bahadur. After presenting a couple of different sourced interpretations for the Guru's execution, the historian makes his point:``The Guru, while being a religious leader, had also begun to be a rallying point for all those fighting against injustice and oppression... for the Sikhs, the Guru gave up his life in defence of cherished principles.''

Today, the whole section on the Sikhs in the chapter on `Climax and Disintegration of the Mughal Empire-I' stands deleted; thanks to the fact that neither the NCERT nor the CBSE - both autonomous organisations - has the gumption to stand up to the diktat of the Human Resource Development Minister, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi. And, as a consequence of this one populist action, the contribution of Sikhs to that phase of Indian history has been wiped out!

This, when the whole purpose of the deletion is to inculcate a sense of pride among children in the martyrdom of Guru Tegh Bahadur. How, pray, will that be possible now when the only reference to him in the book has been struck off completely.

Even more appalling is the NCERT's ignorance about the age of the children who study this book. Welcoming the CBSE's decision, the NCERT noted that ``parents of a 11-year-old child are entitled to inculcate in the child a sense of pride...'' Evidently, the eager-to-please-Dr. Joshi NCERT forgot that Prof. Chandra's book is not for 11-year-olds, but for Class XI students.

Scroll back in time to the Vedic Age where the Class XI book of Prof. R. S. Sharma has had to reckon with a similar deletion. Gone is the section on `The Varna System'. All because there is a mention that religion influenced the formation of social classes in India in a peculiar way and Brahmanical indoctrination is identified as one of the reasons for the caste system taking root.

References to ancient Indians being beef-eaters appears to be a particular irritant with the self-styled cleansers of history textbooks. Of the view that there is no need for Class VI students to know that beef was served on special occasions in ancient India, the NCERT has deleted similar references from even Prof. Sharma's Ancient India textbook for Class XI!

``What will they do next: Take back the Bharat Ratna given to Pandurang Vaman Kane, the great Sanskrit scholar and author of the `History of the Dharmasastra', in which he has mentioned the prevalence of beef-eating among ancient Indians,'' asked a teacher on condition of anonymity.

As it is, most schools had finished teaching the portions that have been deleted. Even in schools where this is not the case, teachers see no way of avoiding discussion in the classroom - which, too, is not permissible as per the circular. ``How can discussion be banned - it goes against the tenor of social sciences and democracy.''

Likewise, Murli Joshi has removed passages referring to Mahavira, the founder of Jainism. This is another Brahmin conspiracy to eliminate Jainism completely from Bharatavarsha:

" The sub-chapter on Vardhaman Mahavira has been deleted. The paragraph on the evolution of the varna and the caste system and the brahmanical reaction as the downfall of the Mauryan empire has also been censored on the ground that these are "interpretations". ... Satish Chandra, whose entire sub-chapter on Sikhs in his book Medieval India (Class XI)' has been deleted, is unhappy at the unilateral and totalitarian stand of the NCERT and the government ... He [satish Chandra] appreciates the simplicity of the religion and its appeal to the peasantry of Punjab, something unpalatable to the mandarins of the NCERT and the HRD ministry." [`Scholars criticise saffron censorship,' Amitabh Shukla, Hindustan Times, 24/11/01]

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then why the true facts that I stated about hinduism has been struck off

give me one valid reason

dont give me reason like we promote inter religious harmony(as this is the basis of sikhism and everybody knows it)

but if anybody is hellbent on extinguishing you , you have to take guard, and i was only trying to tell some facts about hinduism.

KOI KISI KO RAAJ NA DE HAI, JO BHI LE NIJ BAL SE LEH HAI

Gurfateh

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I included a fact on hinduism, i have not added a single alphabet from my side but only quoted from their vedas, puranas(matsya purana, bhagwat puran) and if you ask any learned hindu(bahmans/brahmans, as 99% will say they have never ever read what their scriptures say, they only follow blindly), they will say that each and everything is true.

Whatever you have posted as research is nothing new. I have seen it long time back on Muslims website. I know that most of the ISI agents post such material but it is not an attack against you because im simply stating what I have seen online.

www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/hindu/hindu_heretics.html

Also, check out www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet-hindu.html

Now you have to understand that we are Sikhs. Our Gurus asked Hindus to become good Hindus and Muslims to become good Muslims. If they didn't add what you are trying to paste here then why Sikhs should allow it here? We'll go by our Gurus words not by any Joe and Harry’s words. There is no credit card transaction you make when you login to this site so I don't know who you are.

(1)If what I said is untrue(plz check by yourself, as you are moderator of this site and so a very learned person), i will apologise for what i said.

If it is truth and we want to live by this then why whine when Hindus show us similarities between Hinduism and Sikhism?

(2)I am only trying to tell the facts of these Brahmans, and I am not saying anything publicly like what they are doing in India by including it in course curriculum of 10th, 11th and 12 th standard and what is absolutely untrue

"[T]he contribution of Sikhs to that phase of Indian history has been wiped out!"

The Hindu(Sunday, Dec 02, 2001 )

I don't know your true intention but if we go by your statement then you are ignorant by yourself.

I couldn't understand why are you showing one side of the coin?

Here is what other Brahmans are doing...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb2000/meht-f15.shtml

Here is one more Brahman who without any partiality spoke against his own people and brought truth from their own scriptures. Now tell me how you can add everyone in one basket?

Dwijendra Narayan Jha A Hindu Brahmin

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...nce&s=books

Brahmins under Murli Joshi remove references to Sikhism from Textbooks

Major part of R.S.S comes from Gujrati Hindus (mostly bania community & local Hindu gujrati khatris) and you are adding Brahmins only? Yes, most of the leaders of this organization were Brahmins at one time but it is not true in present situation. It is dominated by Hindu Aroras, Bania community of Gujarat. And for your kind information Lal Krishan Advani is not Brahmin but Sindhi Hindu and Sibbal and Tongriya are also non Brahmins.

Sunday, Dec 02, 2001

Excising the truth

What do the removed portions say? Anita Joshua finds out.

``AS THE study of history at this stage is intended to initiate the pupil into the rigours of the discipline, it is necessary to introduce him/her to the elements of historical methodology, of how the historian works. For this he/she should be acquainted with the various kinds of sources which form the raw materials of historical studies. The pupil may be encouraged to study the sources critically...''

This is a point made by the National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) in its three-page rationale for the new higher secondary history syllabus. If familiarity with various historical sources is to be encouraged, then what did Prof. Satish Chandra do wrong. Unless, of course, the NCERT Director, Dr. J. S. Rajput, uses the same lexicon as that of the Union Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, Mr. Pramod Mahajan, where ``rapine'' has something to do with rape, and source has a different meaning.

After all, the portions found to be objectionable in Prof. Chandra's book on Medieval India for Class XI have been picked from various sources. Be it the reference to Guru Tegh Bahadur resorting to ``plunder and rapine'' or the mention of his execution being the result of ``intrigues of some members of his family who disputed his succession'', both are not the author's viewpoints. While the former is from a Persian source, Prof. Chandra quotes from a Sikh tradition in the case of the latter.

If anything, Prof. Chandra has spoken very highly of Guru Tegh Bahadur. After presenting a couple of different sourced interpretations for the Guru's execution, the historian makes his point:``The Guru, while being a religious leader, had also begun to be a rallying point for all those fighting against injustice and oppression... for the Sikhs, the Guru gave up his life in defence of cherished principles.''

Today, the whole section on the Sikhs in the chapter on `Climax and Disintegration of the Mughal Empire-I' stands deleted; thanks to the fact that neither the NCERT nor the CBSE - both autonomous organisations - has the gumption to stand up to the diktat of the Human Resource Development Minister, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi. And, as a consequence of this one populist action, the contribution of Sikhs to that phase of Indian history has been wiped out!

This, when the whole purpose of the deletion is to inculcate a sense of pride among children in the martyrdom of Guru Tegh Bahadur. How, pray, will that be possible now when the only reference to him in the book has been struck off completely.

Even more appalling is the NCERT's ignorance about the age of the children who study this book. Welcoming the CBSE's decision, the NCERT noted that ``parents of a 11-year-old child are entitled to inculcate in the child a sense of pride...'' Evidently, the eager-to-please-Dr. Joshi NCERT forgot that Prof. Chandra's book is not for 11-year-olds, but for Class XI students.

Scroll back in time to the Vedic Age where the Class XI book of Prof. R. S. Sharma has had to reckon with a similar deletion. Gone is the section on `The Varna System'. All because there is a mention that religion influenced the formation of social classes in India in a peculiar way and Brahmanical indoctrination is identified as one of the reasons for the caste system taking root.

References to ancient Indians being beef-eaters appears to be a particular irritant with the self-styled cleansers of history textbooks. Of the view that there is no need for Class VI students to know that beef was served on special occasions in ancient India, the NCERT has deleted similar references from even Prof. Sharma's Ancient India textbook for Class XI!

``What will they do next: Take back the Bharat Ratna given to Pandurang Vaman Kane, the great Sanskrit scholar and author of the `History of the Dharmasastra', in which he has mentioned the prevalence of beef-eating among ancient Indians,'' asked a teacher on condition of anonymity.

As it is, most schools had finished teaching the portions that have been deleted. Even in schools where this is not the case, teachers see no way of avoiding discussion in the classroom - which, too, is not permissible as per the circular. ``How can discussion be banned - it goes against the tenor of social sciences and democracy.''

Likewise, Murli Joshi has removed passages referring to Mahavira, the founder of Jainism. This is another Brahmin conspiracy to eliminate Jainism completely from Bharatavarsha:

" The sub-chapter on Vardhaman Mahavira has been deleted. The paragraph on the evolution of the varna and the caste system and the brahmanical reaction as the downfall of the Mauryan empire has also been censored on the ground that these are "interpretations". ... Satish Chandra, whose entire sub-chapter on Sikhs in his book Medieval India (Class XI)' has been deleted, is unhappy at the unilateral and totalitarian stand of the NCERT and the government ... He [satish Chandra] appreciates the simplicity of the religion and its appeal to the peasantry of Punjab, something unpalatable to the mandarins of the NCERT and the HRD ministry." [`Scholars criticise saffron censorship,' Amitabh Shukla, Hindustan Times, 24/11/01]

Why are you showing one side of the coin?

Why didn't you post replies sent by sikh historians? Aren't you showing ignorance?

http://www.sikhe.com/gsdno/articles/singhn...ableattempt.htm

Most of the stuff you have quoted above is usually used by "dalits" to provoke sikhs and I can clearly see your reference is coming from dalits website.

http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/brahman/b...1/brah0118.html

Although, I have sympathy with dalits and I support the thought of having equality within human beings but everybody should be treated equally not just one community. I can show you so many chances where dalits themselves have discriminated against higher castes of Hindus when they got into power. So, we can't really call them innocent anymore.

As you might be aware of this fact that when Miss "Mayawati" who is famous dalit leader came to power the first thing she did changed the name of one of the famous hospital from her dominated political area which was behind Chandeshekar “Sharma†Azaad (who was freedom fighter and Brahmin) to Dr. Ambedkar hospital who was one of their leader.

So, there is nothing better dalits have done when they came to power. They should have made difference by bringing unity within higher and low castes people but all they did/are doing raising the status of their own people and giving them higher posts while discriminating against other higher castes people. So, there is no difference.

Here educate yourself about R.S.S. background.

http://www.awaazsaw.org/ibf/appendix5.htm

You might not be aware of this fact that Marxist historians are worst than R.S.S or any Brahmins in India. You should watch out for Harkrishan Singh Surjit and all those "comrades" because they wear turban like Sikhs but they are the biggest enemies of Sikhs.

Read here from Kashmir Heralds.

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredartic...inghistory.html

Here are few more articles for you.

http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/BB23Df01.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/ind-m16.pdf

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then why the true facts that I stated about hinduism has been struck off

This is the reason that we have moved topic to our moderators section so we can verify source of your "true facts" and your real intention. You should have sent us PM or checked our delete section in which we have given notice that topic was moved.

give me one valid reason

Check above.

dont give me reason like we promote inter religious harmony(as this is the basis of sikhism and everybody knows it)

Moderators reserve the right to allow/disallow any messages, so there is no need to give any explanation but you can read above though.

KOI KISI KO RAAJ NA DE HAI, JO BHI LE NIJ BAL SE LEH HAI

If you are Sikh then how can you ignore the fact that your own Guru never ruled any part of nation? Yes, Sikh gurus were against injustice but they were definitely not behind getting one piece of land.

Also, this is just one line from full paragraph. Can you post full paragraph here?

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