The destruction of Sikh Heritage

[kamalroop singh]

The SGPC whitewash another level, I wonder why>?

[Narsingha]

There goes Shaheed Akali Nihang Baba Udey Singh and Shaheed Akali Nihang Baba Bachittar Singh..

A close up of frescos can be seen at (pre-whitewash):

http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/informa...ledgements.html

[Guest Javanmard]

Let's not even mentioned the thousands of manuscripts the SGPC joyfully burns every year!

[Narsingha]

Yes, but lalleshvari, according to today's Sikhs, the S.G.P.C. and groups supporting their actions (A.K.J., Nishkam Sevak Jatha, 'DamDami Taksal', various Sant factions, etc) are seen as saviours of Sikhism.

In this day and age, anyone who questions the actions of such groups is branded as 'Anti-Panthic'. If this remains the case, then it appears we are to expect worse things to happen. Perhaps some day children will be taught that Shaheed Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh wore a Patiala shahi turban and a beard net and defeated his enemies with a symbolic wooden kirpan which he wore around his neck...

These actions of today's saviours of Sikhism seem to parallel the book burning frenzies of the Nazis and Facists in the early 20th century.

[Guest Javanmard]

Ach Narsingha wenn will you understand dass there is only ONE FUEHRER of the PANTH: the SGPC!!!! Und der SGPC has fought many heroik battles against the Feinde of the Panth! For eksampel look at the new toiletten der SGPC has built in such heroik fashion!!!

Fuer de heroik konstruktion of de toiletten: SGPC! SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL SIEG HEIL!!!!!

ps. actually even the SGPC toilets are horrible!!!

[kamalroop singh]

Here we have the exclusive team that decides what the SGPC puts up into a cloud of smoke:

Check the picture out, to see how much respect that people have gurbani, in the SGPC.

[Guest Javanmard]

If at least they commited sati with the books they are burning...

[Narsingha]

We have entered the Twilight Zone....

Sikhs all over the world blame the Indian Government for destroying and stealing manuscripts and artifacts during the events during and after Operation BlueStar. There are groups lobbying to rectify this crime, and it is something that should be pursued.

...however, we have 'Panthic' SIKHS committing equally attrocious crimes today - book burning, white washing, stealing rare manuscripts, defacing walls and frescos, diluting gold, erasing history, etc., and it is deemed "acceptable" simply because these actions are committed by Sikhs

Lalleshvari, I was stunned by the lavish use of green bathroom tiles that seem to replace frescos and paintings on puratan Gurughaars. It may be worth your while investing in shares in the tile manufacturing company that has a contract with the S.G.P.C.

[Guest Javanmard]

The worst thing about it is that there actually is a tradition of tile decoration in Indian and Persian art but the SGPC is even unaware of that!!!

The Panth has enough money to have something like that (see photos) and give jobs to young skilled Sikh artists!!! But it prefers ugly disgraceful buildings!!!

What a shame!!!!

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

Dear All,

The issue raised here (heritage) is worthy of mention, however it is requested hereby that no further posts be made simply drumming up resentment against groups -Panthik or not -for this will simply lead to a long pointless thread with the usual slanging-match between the usual parties -please continue with objective discussion, otherwise this thread will be closed.

Thanking you all.

[Narsingha]

Dear All,

The issue raised here (heritage) is worthy of mention, however it is requested hereby that no further posts be made simply drumming up resentment against groups -Panthik or not -for this will simply lead to a long pointless thread with the usual slanging-match between the usual parties -please continue with objective discussion, otherwise this thread will be closed.

Thanking you all.

Why is it is deemed politically correct not to question the actions of groups and individuals responsible for such crimes who ironically claim to be doing 'good' for Sikhism (ie. 'Panthic')?

[kamalroop singh]

VahigurooJiKaKhalsa

VahigurooJiKeFateh!!

Dear Moderator Sahib,

this is common knowledge that this destruction is going on by the SGPC. It is is so graphic you can see it in these photographs. It is obvious and blatant, the purpose of this thread is to show people what is happening. If we can not mention the name of the Organisation that is doing this, then we might as well as stop posting. If you feel there is another way to make people aware about this enlighten us.

The facts remain that the SGPC are responsible for this. If we cannot say that then what is the purpose of these threads?

My feeling is most people in the Panth are sheep. They go where the majority go, and feel is the in thing. Real issues like this are being swept under the carpet. What is your proposition?

Kamalroop Singh

[Singh47]

Can some moderator please lock this thread? Let’s not let such pointless threads lower the standard of this good forum. Its one thing to seriously discuss the wrongdoings of the SGPC against our heritage, but all I see is people here indulging in character assassination of Panthic Jathabandis by calling them nazis, and for the strangest reason even toilets as if that has anything to do with our heritage(Some people just have too much time on their hands).

[kamalroop singh]

Vahiguroojikakhalsa

Vahiguroojikefateh!!!

It is very amusing that everything seems to get personal, that is fine the Sangat have the right to ask questions.

Part 1: Funding for my research.

My research is not in any way shape or form being funded by Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha. Contact them and ask them yourselves. Gurus Kirpa I have have survived up to now.

Part 2: Punjab

Well it seems you know alot about my personal life, Miss Princess Ji, apart from the fact that I spend almost half my time in Punjab. I have had meetings with SGPC, as well as putting proposals in paper to them. If you wish I can post you a copy of it.

Part 3: My work on Heritage

In the last two years I have spent out of my own pocket a small fortune in order to digitise, obtain copies if not originals of important manuscripts. My collection includes, unseen or published works I am working with a number of heritage organisations in the U.K with cataloging, and archiving, as well as preservation of materials. Most of my work should be complete by the end of this year, then you can see it online.

Now please can you tell me what you have done?

Vahiguroo Ji ka Khalsa

Vahigurooji Ke Fateh

[kamalroop singh]

PROPOSAL TO SGPC

Objective

To preserve and promote Sikh manuscripts where generally they are unsafe .One only needs to think back to Bhai Santokh Singh library in 1984 which was burnt to a crisp, it contained many historical Sikh documents.

In addition to the loss and damage caused by past calamities, surviving heritage objects often remain in danger even today. Many are poorly protected from climatic conditions and general decay. Most objects in public and private collections in India have not been catalogued or documented, while others in Pakistan, Europe, the United Kingdom and the United States remain unknown. Most of this Sikh heritage has already disappeared or been destroyed. Something must be done now.

This will involve;

· Making information on Sikh heritage objects and collections available to the public, in book form and via digital and Internet resources.

· Increasing the access to the technology needed to preserve endangered Sikh heritage objects in India and Pakistan.

We can create teams of paid or voluntarily students that are from these geographical areas. These people will contribute to the overall resource, and also preserve their own archive(s) for that organization.

[kamalroop singh]

I thought the judge and jurar was Vahiguroo, it seems "the sikh princess" has taken that role. You have gone from asking me about my research, to a personal issue based on what someone else said. At the end of the day, Maharaj is Ang Sang. I dont wish to discuss rumours and gossip.

Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh

[Hari]

Does anybody know if the head of Soho Rd Nishkam Sevak Jatha (Mohinder Singh) has been interviewed to put his side of the story, regarding the Sone di Seva (gilding of Sri Harimandir Sahib)?

If not, why not?Has he refused interviews?They (the jatha) call him "Babaji).Well, maybe "Babaji" should tell what went on.Anybody here from the jatha?Anybody got Mohinder Singh's email address?

[Beast]

^ I know someone heavily involved in Soho Road functions, but I lost contact with him some time ago. Also, I don't think he would respond favourably to questioning "Babaji".

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

Kamalroop Singh, Narsingha and to all others:-

My comments earlier did not mention anything against raising awareness against the destruction of Sikh Heritage, in fact I clearly stated that this is worthy of discussion.

Moreover, I have not requested that people refrain from mentioning the names of those connected with this issue, for it is, as Kamalroop Singh has stated "common knowledge".

I have asked simply for "objective discussion" to continue and to avoid "drumming up resentment" that will lead to us having to close this thread should the "usual slanging-match" begin between polarised groups, which we can already see beginning (comments of this nature should need not be identified here, as those being referred to are obvious).

This (the destruction of Sikh Heritage) is a matter concerning all who regard themselves as Sikhs and I simply do not wish for a sensible thread to turn into another Sanatan -vs- Mainstream or AKJ vs SGPC vs Taksal vs Nihangs tug of war.

This of course depends on the maturity of those writing here -from whatever group you may be from or associate yourself with-please keep things clean and discuss the matter at hand.

The "drumming up resentment" comment was made deliberately and is applied to all, for the classic signs of the aforementioned "slanging match" are already emerging and I say again for the record, it is "OUR" Sikh Heritage and this is a matter worth discussing, but it should not falling into another 'slanging match'.

I hope this is clear for all to understand and please continue to discuss as requested.

Thanking you all.

[kamalroop singh]

Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh!!

Dear Sangat,

we can sit here all day talking about the SGPC till we are blue in the face. In this respect, we have already shown the lack of professional attitude they have towards our heritage.

Let us do some research and find out exactly what we have lost and post it up maybe? The best way to illustrate what we have lost, is by listing it.

It not a question of them and us. We all believe in Satguru Ji, and therefore we should respect everyones opinions. However we simply agree to disagree. Lets not make this into TUG OF WAR as the moderator has said.

Maharaj bless us with peace.

Kamalroop Singh

[Narsingha]

Fresco of Ranjit Singh’s era destroyed

Tribune India, Reporter: Pawan Kumar

Amritsar, June 11

The old wall painting of Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s era depicting Maharaja Ranjit Singh holding a Darbar has been destroyed from the haveli in the congested walled city opposite to the Hindu College which was demolished reportedly to raise a shopping plaza.

Mr Jasbir Singh Bhatia, a research scholar on Sikh portraits brought the broken pieces to The Tribune office, revealed that this was the rarest wall painting and seemed to be made during Maharaja’s era. He said the painting has shown Maharaja Ranjit Singh in white and black beard and also having a halo behind his head which is rare to be found. In most of paintings Maharaja is shown in white beard and halo.

Mr Bhatia expressed his anguish over the attitude of Government which had failed to preserve such rarest treasure. He said government should have identified such heritage and preserve them with available latest techniques.

He said the painting seemed to have been made before 1830-32 when Maharaja Ranjit Singh was alive. He said majority of paintings found were of after 1838 having the influence of British painters and made after his death. He revealed that in 1838, Emily Edan, a British painter had painted a picture in a pose which became very famous and adopted by many artists later on. However, this painting had not such influence as this had shown Maharaja Ranjit Singh holding a rose and a man waving a cloth ‘chanwar’, he added.

Mr Bhatia said Maharaja has been shown as sitting on Golden Chair embedded with various precious stones along with Maharaja Kharak Singh, Maharaja Sher Singh, Maharaja Naunihal Singh, Sardar Lehna Singh etc. He said in the facial expression and cloth wearing style showed their status in the Darbar.

He said the painting seemed to be the result of Rajput artisan having Rajasthan technique. The base of painting have been prepared with successive layers of limestone, brick powder, white clay mixed with coat of bone and shell powder, curd, milk and honey. This technique is known as ‘Pore’ technique of Rajasthani art in vogue before the beginning of 20th century.

Ms Mejinderpal Kaur, Director, United Sikhs Organisation, a human development organisation said that their organisation would do their best to play any role which they were asked to play to preserve such structures and paintings. She said it would be short-sightedness of us if we failed to appreciate and preserve them. She expressed dismay over the government’s attitude towards preserving our heritage.

source: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040612/punjab1.htm#8

[malwadoabamajha]

Does anybody know if the head of Soho Rd Nishkam Sevak Jatha (Mohinder Singh) has been interviewed to put his side of the story, regarding the Sone di Seva (gilding of Sri Harimandir Sahib)?

If not, why not?Has he refused interviews?They (the jatha) call him "Babaji).Well, maybe "Babaji" should tell what went on.Anybody here from the jatha?Anybody got Mohinder Singh's email address?

not that im aware of. I am not from any jatha, but your most welcome to go down to soho rd gurdwara and ask to meet bhai sahib mohinder singh ji face to face and talk to him about this topic.

[kamalroop singh]

Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh!!

Dear Pyare Sangat,

there has been an overwelming response, to this thread, and those that have PM'd das personally, I will get back to you ASAP. I apologise as I have been working out of the country.

In terms of the Gold panelling that was removed by Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha, which was mentioned by Bha Ji Amandeep Singh Ji. I am happy to confirm that all of them are intact and in the complex itself. In terms of location that are in an office, opposite the Guru Ram Das langar.

I saw them myself last year, after questioning the Jatha myself. I do apologise for not posting this up previously.

It is also intersting to note, that after the Blue Star operation, every single thing has been done to cover up marks of bullets holes, etc around the Parkarma. There should have been some kind of relic, or memorial at Darbar Sahib Complex. Sadly, everytime I have been, there has been some kind of building work or marbling to replace this.

One other act by the SGPC was to move the Shaheedi memorial of Baba Deep Singh. It was originally in the middle of the Parkarma, which now has been moved to the side. Therefore Sangat walk over that sacred place each day.

http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/mahapar...historical.html

The fresco on this page, of Guru Hargobind Sahib is also no longer there.

Bhai Gian Singh Naqash's family, also are dismayed at the attitude of the powers of control in the Sikh Panth. Many times they have practically begged the commitee not to white wash frescos in Amritsar, to no avail at all. This includes Ramsar Gurudwara, which had a fresco of Guru Gobind Singhs army, facing the Amry of the Emperor. By luck, I managed to get a few copies of photographs of some of the Fresco's.

For the pleasure of the Sangat a New Exhibition should be completed for public viewing by the Sangat in August. As the details come in we will let the Sangat know.

Das Kamalroop Singh

[kamalroop singh]

This is the now completed Akal Takht interior ceiling, which runs around the edges. Instead of painting each fresco, tiles have been used. To some this maybe fine. On a personal note, the work completed there should have represented the Original.

[kamalroop singh]

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030402/main10.htm