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Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

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looking what i found :shock: PLEASE READ!

Sikhs do call, Guru Nanak as their Prophet. Which is wrong, becos hazrat Muhammad [sAW]was the last prophet, and all others who claim to be one, are hypocrites and false prophet.

Guru Nanak was no Prophet just reformer, it would be clear by reading the fowlling.

Qualities of a Prophet of God

No one can become a prophet of God by his own choosing or effort; Allah has to choose him to be His prophet. And Allah chooses only such persons who have all the qualities necessary for that role, and He does so at the appropriate time in history, and then He protects His prophets from falling into the kind of errors that do not suit a prophet.

The first duty that a prophet of God does is to tell his people that he has been appointed a prophet by God to invite people to His way. Thus, a genuine prophet claims to be a prophet of God, though this claim in itself is not enough. But first and foremost, a prophet has to claim himself to be a prophet of God. The people often question this claim and threaten him to give up his claim. They may even offer him all kinds of temptations that ordinary humans would fall for. But the genuine prophets ignore these and go forward with their God-given mission.

So, the first question you need to ask your Sikh friend is: Did Nanak really claim to be a prophet chosen by God to lead people out of darkness into light?

If the answer is “no,†tell him that this proves that prophethood was conferred on him by his zealous followers and it is meaningless to continue to argue that Nanak was a prophet.

If the answer is “yes,†the second question is: Did Nanak approve of the roles of earlier prophets of God, especially the prophet who came just before him, Muhammad (peace be on him)?

If he says “yes,†ask him then how one can reconcile the fact that Muhammad was the Last Prophet of God and the claim that Nanak was a prophet after the Last Prophet.

The third question is whether all the Sikhs believe that their holy book, called the Adi Granth, was revealed to Nanak by God. If they say “yes,†ask them whether there is any statement to that effect in the book itself and whether Nanak said that the Adi Granth had been fully revealed to him by God. If the answer is in the affirmative, your Sikh friend has to show the proof that the above statements are true, from the Adi Granth itself. This will not be possible for him to do for the following reasons:

1. The Adi Granth is a collection of the writings of many Gurus including Nanak. It was in 1604—Nanak died in 1539—that Arjan Dev, one of the ten Gurus, compiled the hymns of Guru Nanak along with the compositions of both Hindu and Muslim holy men like Jaidev, Surdas, Sheikh Farid and Kabir. The compiled book was enshrined by Arjan in the Golden Temple with the name “Adi Granth.â€

2. A prophet of God is a model for all his followers in all aspects of life. But in the case of Sikhism, we find that it was not Guru Nanak, but the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who organized the community of Sikhs into a khalsa, “a spiritual brotherhood devoted to purity of thought and action.†He taught his followers to wear long hair (kesh, denoting saintly appearance), underwear (kachha, denoting self-control), an iron bangle (kara, denoting purity in acts), a comb (kangha, denoting cleanliness of mind and body), and a sword (kirpan, denoting fight for a just cause).

3. Towards the end of his life, the aged Nanak returned home to Punjab and settled down at Kartharpur with his family. People came from far and near to hear his hymns and preaching. After his death, his Hindu followers thought him to be a Hindu and his Muslim followers thought him to be a Muslim.

From the foregoing, we understand that Guru Nanak was not a prophet of God, but a religious reformer of his times

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We all know that the Light of the Ten Gurus' were the same, Guru Gobind Singh wrote this in Dasam Granth. But the "I" doesnt really mean Guru Gobind Singh Ji if the our ten Gurus' were one of the same, it might of easily been Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

AKAALPURAKH BAACH

CHAUPAYEE

I am designating you as my son;

I am extending the privilege to you of being my son)

I am creating you to spread my message;

You organize a true religion down there in the world,

And prevent the worldly people from falling into the practice of fake

actions (in stead of remembering Waheguru). (29)

DOHRAA

I, (The I doesnt really mean, Gobind Singh), then stood up with folded hands,

And said some words with a bowed head.

The path of ‘truth’ can prosper in this world only

If You, the Waheguru, are by my side. (30)

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...bachithr+naatak

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Ive even heard storys about Jesus Sahib saying that a Prophet of God will be born from the East and he would be the last Prophet of God, but some of the Christians were warned about a False Prophet.

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Ive even heard storys about Jesus Sahib saying that a Prophet of God will be born from the East and he would be the last Prophet of God, but some but the Christians were warned about a False Prophet.

Where did u hear that rupz?? This is new to me. Please enlighten us :D

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does this surprise you? It doesn't surprise me. Knowing the basics of Islam it;s obvious muslims would come to this conclusion. Why should we even care? It is their religious belief.

We know the truth about Guru Nanak dev ji. Instead of worring what others religious beliefs are, Sikhs should worry about why so many Sikhs are giving up kesh. They should wonder why so many Sikhs aren't taking amrit. Why so many think that Sikhism needs to get with the times and get rid of kakars. This is what lots of Sikhs are doing and thinking.

We should put our energy and effort into enlivining the Sikh panth. So Sikhs will proudly show their Sikhism and join the Khalsa fold.

I've always wondered why so many Sikhs worry about muslims so much.

akalbir

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well said brother but this is the topic for the forum. but i support ur arguement fully. especially about teh kesh. where singh in the past like Bhai Taru Singh was scalped using a hammer and chizel to keep his hair and now "sikhs" PAY barbers to have their hair cut.

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Waheguroo Jee ka Khalsa Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

Here is something I found at Sikhnet.

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....0D?OpenDocument

Perhaps more than any Prophet in history Nanak's coming on Earth was predicted profusely with uncanny accuracy as recorded in some detail below. This has resulted after long and arduous research into the ancient doctrines many dating thousands of years before his actual birth. These are numerically listed below for ease of reference, not necessarily in chronological order. The Vedas and Puranas in which these direct references have been found recorded, are known to be amongst the oldest chronicles in the world. These references are as under:

1. In the Hindu epic the RIG VEDA

(i) In Mandala 7, Ush 5, Mantra 5 and Chapter 6

"Bee chakram prithoi aishai ta khestraaeh Vishnu mansai das sayaan throvaah so asaya keeryo janaas oeroo khashatra so janama chakaar (8)"

meaning

"when in the world the sinful ways will be on the rise and noble behavior will vanish, as the disappearance of the moon when on its wane on the darkest night, there will appear Vishnu as a prominent Prophet from the Keshatra Clan and will manifest in consecutive form through 10 Prophets to bring back the ways of virtue to the ailing world."

(ii) In the same Vedas, in another part even in the name NANAK and the clan he belongs to is recorded thus -

"Sri Nanak gureng vareng saklaath heythoo. Heitha samasth jagathaa va veithee kaetheng"

meaning

"For the preaching of religious ways and the earning of good karma, there will manifest Guru NANAK from the clan of the Veithees"

(iii) At another position in the same Vedas is entered under Mandala 1 Soothak 5 and in the 7th Mantra thus -

"Eeth eethei Vishnu reinn chakramei threihaa nathathei patham"

meaning

"The Prophet in the Kali Yuga will manifest three attributes. As an Avtar propounding Truth, as a Householder establishing family life and at the same time be a Raja Yogi"

2. The YUJAR VEDA

As in the RIG VEDA quoted above, in the YUJAR VEDA also the Prophet in the Kali Yuga will manifest three main characteristics thus -

"Vishnu bee chakrageih treithaa neikthei patham samudhseiaa paaeh serei swahaa"

meaning

"Vishnu will appear again, manifesting three main characteristics, Avtarhood, Householder family life and be a Rajah Yogi as well"

Although in the above two quotations the name of Nanak does not directly appear, reference to being a householder family man, would point to him because he was among the first few Avtars (prophets) who was married and begetting children.

Incidentally in Hindu mythology, VISHNU is the primordial Godhead Prophet, who incarnates on Earth taking many differing forms and the ensuing names thereto.

3. In the BHAVEKHATH PURANA

"Baavekhath" means "future foretelling". There are numerous places in this famous Hindu epic where the advant of Guru NANAK is directly alluded to. These instances are listed hereunder -

(i)

"Theraa bhaareng thereshtwah keli krethem maha krethyaa. Aeveng vaee tharam parchaariang bhavekhthee thaa kalau. Thatha vei loka rakheiaartheng maleishana naas heithwei paschmeitlheng subh theisay vath wensei chei Nanaka naam nach rekhiang brahem geaanaik manas bhavekhet kaloe skunth thatar verth kaleaah har (35)."

meaning

"In the Kali Yuga when goodness in the world is deteriorating there will appear a Prophet from the Beithi clan named NANAK who from birth will be endowed with extra-ordinary spiritual power. He will preach on the nobility of life and the eradication of the sinful ways"

(ii) In another portion of this book the following short cogent quotation supplies further pertinent information on the advant of Nanak

"Guru thaa Brahma, Guru raa Vishnu, Guru raa dev maheshra saakhyaar Parbrehem Thasmei NANAK nameh"

meaning

"The Guru of the prophets, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv ji is God almighty himself. This very Creator will manifest itself as a human, in the form of one whose name will be NANAK

Note the clarity and explicitness in which the coming of Nanak is predicted.

(iii) Further down in this book is recorded the following detailed assertiveness about Nanak and the type of mission and work he shall perform. It appears to emanate from the Godhead itself.

"The Kali Yuga shall dawn on Earth with radical mainisfestation of destruction of Karma and Dharma to such an extent that every situation shall be colored by sinful activities. At that distressful moment, the Creator shall send down a spiritual liminary in the form of NANAK from the Khatria clan. He will spread the message of NAAM, the Holy life Force, by introducing the primacy of meditation and thus washing clean the sinful ways by the waters of love."

Note the beautiful and comprehensive description of the happening.

(iv) There is yet another quotation from this same Bhavekhath Purana indicative of Nanak and the 9 prophets that consecutively followed his lineage : -

"When in the world there is the deteriorization of noble Dharma, then Vishnu will re-incarnate through 10 Prophethoods and will preach on the universal and omnipotent value of NAAM. (the Holy Life Force)"

4. In DHIGVAJEH PURANA

"During the reign of the 8 Muslim rulers, Vishnu will incarnate in 10 human forms and after them will appear a (Mona) SILENT Guru (meaning the SGGS, the Sikh Scripture) who will only respond where the response is solicited."

The word SILENT is of great importance - it refers to the "Sikh Scriptural Book" (SGGS). This is the first time in the history of Religion that a Sacred Book was elevated to the status of a Prophet. Unlike a Prophet in body form with the inherent capacity to make utterances, a Book has to be categorized as being basically 'Silent'. This is indeed a startling revelation, pinpointing the coming into the world of a (mona) Silent Guru, thousands of years before the actual occurrence.

The eight Muslim Rulers were 1. - Sultan Lodhi, 2. - Babar, 3. - Humanyuh, 4. - Akbar, 5 - Jehangir, 6 - Shah Jahan, 7 - Aurangzeb, 8 - Bahadur Shah, These precisely were the Rulers in India during the period in which the 10th Sikh Guru came into being. This further emphasizes the authenticity of the revelation and the happening.

5. Through PATANJALI the great Indian (Hindu) Sage

Patanjali, one of the top Indian Yogis of old, came 2180 years before Guru Nanak. In his Ashram while lecturing on the Prophets of the Kali Yuga, the Iron Age, he singled out Guru Nanak as the one who will be outstanding. When asked what will be his prime mantra, He replied. -

"Wahyanti karyanti jathputi athak etwaha brahamadeya, teisah Gur et WAHEGURU"

meaning

"He will use a unique single syllable mantra which has not been utilized before at any Age or Era. This will be WAHEGURU."

Waheguru mantra, which means "Lord of Wonderment" has since been popularised by Guru Nanak and all the nine other Sikh Gurus that followed him.

6. In VISHNU PURANA

In the VISHNU PURANA there is recorded an interesting dialogue between VISHNU and a famous Rishi UMBREEK. Vishnu is said to have informed Umbreek that he will once again take birth in the Kali Yuga. The Rishi then enquired when about will that be and what will be your name then? Vishnu replied that this will happen when the Kali Yuga has proceeded for 4500 years and that I will take birth in the Shatri Sooraj Bansi clan, when I will be named, NANAK.

In this same Purana it is further recorded: -

"Sri Nanak santang saageaami

Sri asech, sri asech, sri asech, sri asech"

meaning

"Sri NANAK will once again appear in the world in a variety of incarnations; this is for sure, this is for sure, this is for sure."

Computing the date of Guru Nanak's birth from the above mentioned figure that took place when the Kali Yuga had proceeded for 4550 years, reckoning the total durations of Kali Yuga now to be about 5090 old. It is to be noted that this figure of 4550 is pretty close to the 4500 years predicted by VISHNU JI above. Incidentally, the clan in which Guru Nanak was born was also known as a Shatri Sooraj Bansi indicated above.

CONCLUSION

From the above it is evident that Guru Nanak must have had the largest number of premonitional references to his coming compared to the advent of the other Prophets in all the various Ages and Epochs. Therefore the Prophet Guru Nanak's advent into the world is indeed of millennial significance to even the coming future times.

NANAK

The word NANAK is a combination of two sanskrit terms. 'Na" and 'Anak'. The meaning attached to these words is "Not-but-One". The message conveyed by the Guru's name and the education imparted by him through the Sacred Scriptual verses, usually commence with the words "Ik Oengkar". This phrase too means Non-but-One. One God only.

MOOL MANTRA

There is a very interesting episode in Guru Nanak's illustrious life. When he was still very young, even before his `teens, he took a dip into the river alongside his house for his regular morning ablutions, but this time he dissapeared into the waters, missing for two days and nights. On the third day he re-appeared from out of the water with the following Verse on his lips, which is now called the MOOL MANTRA (the primordal Mantra ), which appers at the commencement of every Chapter and sub-Chapter in the SGGS, the Sacred Scripture of the Sikhs. It is one of the most comprehensive definitions of God and is amongst the most powerful of all the world's Mantras.

This is how the Mool Mantra reads in its original version. -

"Ek Oengkaar Satnaam Karta purekh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Moorat Ajoonee Sai- Bhang Gurparsaath"

meaning

"The True One and only Omnipresent Immortal Essence of Reality. The Creator, the Omniscient and Omnipotent, the Incomprehensible (the fearless). Before all Beginnings and after all Endings. Beyond Time, Space and Form (and enmity). Free from the cycle of Births and Deaths, the Self-manifested. The Loving Merciful Enlightener (Realised with His Grace through total Submission to His Will)."

Here is my reply on the thread :

i came across this link 4 years ago. For some people, this is great info regarding prediction of Guru Sahib's coming to earth. Others however dismiss this considering it an attempt by certain groups of Hindu fundamentalists trying to absorb Sikhi into Hinduism by calling Guru Nanak as an avtar of Lord Vishnu. What i m saying is what i have heard from different kinds of people. What u want to perceive this info as is your own judgement.

Hope this clears it up.

Waheguroo Jee ka Khalsa Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

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Why so many think that Sikhism needs to get with the times and get rid of kakars. This is what lots of Sikhs are doing and thinking. akalbir

The Times need to catch up with us :) .

Well ive been trying hard to find out this topic, but its a difficult tasks, if the rest of the sangat wishes to do some research on this topic then please do so, I will also learn something.

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I knew someone would take my words out of context eventually.

akalbir

We know the truth about Guru Nanak dev ji. Instead of worring what others religious beliefs are, Sikhs should worry about why so many Sikhs are giving up kesh. They should wonder why so many Sikhs aren't taking amrit. Why so many think that Sikhism needs to get with the times and get rid of kakars. This is what lots of Sikhs are doing and thinking.

I wasn't saying that "I" think Sikhs need to get with the times. I was saying that "Many Sikhs" think this. They think that the kakars are for times gone by and are no longer relevant. This however is not my belief.

My point was that we should stop worrying about other people and their religious beliefs. We first need to worry about the status of the Sikh panth. There is much to be done about instilling a love for Sikhi in the Sikhs.

akalbir

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Nooo. I knew what you were trying to say, i was just that the times need to catch up with us, with the kakars etc etc, just to complement your comment. Sowwie I should have made my self more clearer.

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ive read what you've posted mehtab before. its very interesting, if Guru Ji's prediciton has been foretold in the Vedas,etc. Shou;dnt the hindu population be Sikhs now, as i think in what you pasted says that Shiva is Nanak or something.

Also, just leave what the muslims are doing alone, we as Sikhs should concentrate more on Sikhi, and Waheguru.

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does this surprise you? It doesn't surprise me. Knowing the basics of Islam it;s obvious muslims would come to this conclusion. Why should we even care? It is their religious belief.

We know the truth about Guru Nanak dev ji. Instead of worring what others religious beliefs are, Sikhs should worry about why so many Sikhs are giving up kesh. They should wonder why so many Sikhs aren't taking amrit. Why so many think that Sikhism needs to get with the times and get rid of kakars. This is what lots of Sikhs are doing and thinking.

We should put our energy and effort into enlivining the Sikh panth. So Sikhs will proudly show their Sikhism and join the Khalsa fold.

I've always wondered why so many Sikhs worry about muslims so much.

akalbir

i agree with u dat we should put our energy into the panth and everything but please don't degrade islam.

i know dat a lotta muslims do it to sikhi all the time but we shoudn't stoop down to their levels.

look at tru muslims like bhagat kabir ji and shaikh farid

no offence intended

bhul chuk marf karna

gur fateh

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When muslims use the english word "Prophet" they mean "Rasool" and/or "Nabi".

Now even in the muslim world there is some confusion as to how these 2 terms are different from each other. My way of seeing this from a muslim point of view is that a nabi/rasool is a person who is commanded by God to deliver a message to the people and brings divine law. For example the Quran are not Muhammad's words (According to muslim beliefs) but the words of God. Even when you read it you can see that it is not written form the point of view of Muhammad (PBUH).

When muslims stand by the Quranic text which says that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets and the last Prophet this puts them in a bit of a dilema I think because muslims as a whole are not certain on what "Prophet" means in this case. I see it as Muhammad (PBUH) being the last Prophet who will bring a direct message from God through laws or revealed Book. This revelation is a unfiltered message and does not come through the Prophets own mind or heart. Ofcourse there can be great men of God after this who are saints etc but in my opinion there is a big difference in their words and the words of direct revelation.

In the end when a muslim looks at the english word "Prophet" then he or she has a certain definition in mind and I think this definition is different to that of a non-muslim.

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Gurfateh

Das on Prakash Parv of First Master 15/11/05 eveing went ot Gurudwara Rakab Ganj Sahib where a ragi was qoting holy Verse from Holy Kuran,Where it is recoreded that Rasol Mohmud(PBUH) was praying to Allah to it would have been good that he could have been sent after 900years when Nanak was to come.

Das coudl not get the number of that verse.

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hello

from my knowledge of the qu'ran, it is the literal word of God(muslim belief). From what I have learnt on this forum about Sikhsm and from what I know about Islam, there is no consistent explanation that has both Muhammad(peace be upon him) and Guru Nanak as prophets of God. The statement of muhammad(pbuh) that he was the last prophet of God will not allow it.

More importantly though, the concept of God in the Sikh and Islamic faiths are VERY different.

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One man has a bowl in it he places water with sugar, and says to his people drink this and quench your thirst, and from the sweetness you will remember God,

Another man takes his bowl and fills it with water and then adds the ras (juice) of roses, he tells his people drink this and quench your thirst, and from the sweetness of the roses you will remember God.

Then a fool comes and fills his bowl with salt.. and adds both the Ras of the Rose and Sugar, he then turns to the others and says drink this and let God quench your thirst...

Do not attempt to argue anothers beliefs from your own viewpoint.

As Baz rightfully pointed out there are many questions regarding the interpretation of the term prophet in the Qu'ran. The Qu'ran undeniably being revealed from Allah to Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) is perfect in ever sense, however one must remember and cannot deny that english interpretations of the Qu'ran can easily be misguided.

It is also a point to concider that in Sunni-Shia Dialogue a common argument amongst Shia and Sunnis is that as the Qu'ran was compiled during the caliphate of Uthman (more then 12 years after the death of Prophet Mohammed PBUH), many of the muslims who had memorised the verses of the Quran had died in battles during the first two caliphs, this could have easily led to loss of certain surras, and it is well documented by both Shia and Sunni sources that another reason Uthman felt it important to create a standardised Quran was due to variations in surras.

Shia sources also argue that as the true successorship (not of the Prophethood, but of leading the Ummah) was stolen from Ali, the act of Uthman was not rightfully guided. (Some early texts also note that uthman burnt varying copies of the Quran)

This is in no way an attempt to discredit the revealed Quran or Prophet Mohammeds Prophethood, it is however a point to note about the standardised quran.

Secondly before any silly sikhs decide to start shouting these points to the next muslim they come across as a means to show their religion is less then the other (which I think is a totally stupid thing to do, as we all love that same God), We have a very similar situation that occured during the standardising of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the panj bania etc.

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