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Who's a real Sikh?


Are people who haven't taken amrit Sikh?  

24 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • Yes.
      13
    • No.
      8
    • Sehajdhari's can be called Sikhs, but not monay.
      3


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(im sorry if i sounded rude, i was writing someone an email!)..im honestly confused about amrit now..some people tell me its a requirement..others tell me its for warriors..others tell me its a passport to paradise..others tell me its this, its that,etc..and its confusing.

i know people will say, then follow gurbani, but does gurbani actually talk about amrit (khande ke pahul, which is what we are all referring to i assume)?? because as far as im aware..it doesnt

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Friends, Impressive Post/Topic. I appriciate the views and vision. First thing first, After reading sukhi_v's first post and reply by ne0... i could only feel growing respect for both of them. Bravo.

i agree with most of your points/thoughts.. i would like to add that i. we should agree that we all are human being and hence, can't be perfect or ideal. there should be a margin for errors and urge to improve in any defination we come up with..

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What about someone whos scared to give their head to the guru (as did the panj pyarai) but who live as gurus sikhs (naam jap, vand shakna, kirt karna,etc along with virtueous qualities)

jao tao prem khelan ka chao sir dhar tali gali meri aao it maarg paer dhareeje sir deeje kaan na keeje

those who r true sikhs are never afraid of giving their heads .

giving head to ur guru is the first requirement in sikhi .

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Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!

in these days, we wud rather listen to men and our own manmat than wat guru je has clearly left for us

peeavhoh pahul khanda dhar how janam sohilaa

vaho vaho gobind singh aphe guru chalea

pritham reight ye jan khandi ke pahul chakke

asoee singh pardhan avar na pahul jo lehai

in all religons u are baptized by some means

hindus do things like janoee for high caste, shave ure head, etc.'

musilamans do something with ure privates

christans bath u in holy water

guru nanak dev je used to give charan pahul, by washing their feet, and giving that water to the person that wanted naam from guru je, thus becoming their sikh, disiple

then guru je wud give them naam

guru gobind singh je under akals hukam

agaie paie akal ke

tabe chalou panth

khalsa akal purkh ke fauj

pargetao khalsa parmatam ke mauj

guru je created khalsa as akal ourkh ordered

vaheguru loved his khalsa, we are his army

so, guru je changed the baptism from charan pahul to khanda de pahul

guru je cut off panj pyayrae heads in front of the sangat( check ajmer sinsh eye witness report ajmer singh aka abdul trani)

guru je made amrit by recitng the following banis

japji sahib

jaap sahib

tva prsad swiaye

choupai sahib

anand sahib

guru je while reading those banis had been stirring fresh water in a sarab loh batta with a khanda while in bir assan

then guru je gave the 5 his amrit and made them live again

amrit is a must in sikhi

without it how will u get naam and gurmantar

wat the heck is the point of being a sikh if u dont have naam from ure guru

how can u be a sikh of any guru without having gotten naam

u need naam from guru je

to get naam u must take amrit

take amrit when u are ready to

but to truly become a sikh u must take amrit

bhula chuka maf

Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!

great post veer ji .

exact truth

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someone please answer sikh_fauge's question:

Friends, Impressive Post/Topic. I appriciate the views and vision. First thing first, After reading sukhi_v's first post and reply by ne0... i could only feel growing respect for both of them. Bravo.

i agree with most of your points/thoughts.. i would like to add that i. we should agree that we all are human being and hence, can't be perfect or ideal. there should be a margin for errors and urge to improve in any defination we come up with..

thank you Sardu ji, for ur comment.

i also agree with your second comment on taking into account that we're all human and that there should be a margin for errors. but at the same time, i don't think we should stop trying to understand the underlying essence of what being a sikh is really about.

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i also agree with your second comment on taking into account that we're all human and that there should be a margin for errors. but at the same time, i don't think we should stop trying to understand the underlying essence of what being a sikh is really about.

Correct.. i agree . I meant, Just also take this fact into consideration... :)

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WAHEGUROO JEE KA KHALSA WAHEGUROO JEE KEE FATEH

Think of it this way : Even Guru Gobind Singh Jee had to kneel down and request the Panj Pyaare to give Him Amrit. Those who say Amrit is not everything, are you guys better than Gurujee? The one who is our spiritual Father, the one who sacrificed His everything for us (Sarbans Daani), the one who is unparalleled in human history, is anyone who denies the importance/requirement of Amrit greater than Him?

bhul chuk maaf

WAHEGUROO JEE KA KHALSA WAHEGUROO JEE KEE FATEH

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Many members of the sangat have said that it is more important to be saaf inside more than just baing a pakhandi amritdhari...

This is true. They also said that if these two people were placed in front of Guru Maharaj than Guru Maharaj would be more pleased with the dilloh sacha one.

This may also true. But that doesnt mean that the person who is pure on the inside is a sikh. He may be working towards being a sikh, but until he has enrolled (amrit) at the school of the Guru than how can he be learning? Many sikhs have respect for Jesus, or Muhammad. This doesnt make them Christians or muslims.

For me this is a non-issue...Rehitnama talk about who a sikh is....and contrary to what some people here i do not believe that rehitname can change over time...who are we to decide what is now applicable or not apllicable.

If a rehitnama says a sikh does this than that is what we must do.

the shabad

Jo satgur ka jo sikh akhaey, so pulkeh outh har naam dhiyaeh...

tells us who a sikh is...so if you are amritdhari and you dont follow your rehit maybe your not really a sikh..

there are many people in the world who are good people. Some of these happen to be moneh who follow SOME of the principles of sikhi...But since they do not accept sikhi in its entierity how can they be sikhs??

Amrit is the start of sikhi, not the end!

Khalistani veer, had some good points although maybe his way of explaining lacked a bit.

Sikh fauge i understand your position on this matter, i too felt as you did...not knowing which was teh correct definition. but if you look to what the Guru and rehitname say(or what i felt it said) than im sure you will find your answer.

I would like to pose a question to the sangat....where does it say that a person who does not follow the Guru's rehit can be called a sikh??

Rehit binaa nahee sikh kehavai

without rehit, you cannot call yourself a sikh.

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SORAT’H, 3rd GURU:

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru’s Will. One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished. Without the True Guru, peace is never obtained, O Siblings of Destiny; again and again, he regrets and repents. || 1 || The Lord’s slaves are happy, O Siblings of Destiny. The sins and sorrows of countless lifetimes are eradicated; the Lord Himself unites them in His Union. || Pause || All of these relatives are like chains upon the soul, O Siblings of Destiny; the world is deluded by doubt. Without the Guru, the chains cannot be broken; the Gurmukhs find the door of salvation. One who performs rituals without realizing the Word of the Guru’s Shabad, shall die and be reborn, again and again. || 2 || The world is entangled in egotism and possessiveness, O Siblings of Destiny, but no one belongs to anyone else. The Gurmukhs attain the Mansion of the Lord’s Presence, singing the Glories of the Lord; they dwell in the home of their own inner being. One who understands here, realizes himself; the Lord God belongs to him. || 3 || The True Guru is forever merciful, O Siblings of Destiny; without good destiny, what can anyone obtain? He looks alike upon all with His Glance of Grace, but people receive the fruits of their rewards according to their love for the Lord. O Nanak, when the Naam, the Name of the Lord, comes to dwell within the mind, then self-conceit is eradicated from within. || 4 || 6 ||

Saturday 2nd Saawan, (Samvat 536 Nanakshahi) 17 July 2004 (Page: 601)

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How could you expect "fantacism" do go away like this?? After all, this is part of kalyug. No dharma is safe. Every dharma is surronded by hard-liners of faith who would interpret their faith extreme even though messengers of those faith were against it.

Most of these kinda people choose to take amrit just for show-off and even some take amrit to acceptance in the soceity so that people can do their upma.... without doing the cleaniness from inside first.

This reminds me of an sakhi of sant maharaj rara sahib talking about amrit. He said how could you expect to amrit to give you mukhti when there is still poision inside you and eating you.

Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar went all over the universe to spread one message which is- Ik Onkar. Kirat Karo, Naam Jaapo & Vandkaie ChaKO.

I couldnt have said it better myself :D... right on mate!

Well there is lack of understanding between two bodies- Mona and Gursikhs.

Mona Sikhs are sort of backing off because the experience they went through with some of hardliners sikhs.

I hope our sikh youth organizations can built up a special and more close relationship between them and non-sikhs and bring them close to sikhi by nirmata and pyaaar not by "Do's & Don't's". Dont preach them rule but preach them love and humbleness, importance of naam japna, importance of sat-sangat, sadhu-sangat. They should first change their inside first then attempt to do all these things.

There are lot of preachers out there who preach day and night long but they don't pratice themselves... i can't blame them either because they think from their point of views its a form of seeva...I would request them work to bring these virtues/gems of sikhi in them first then spread the naam of Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar and don't worry about parchar. Let the parchar of Guru Maharaj diae bhagats spread. Let their sugund(smell) of prema bhakti spread and effect people instead of bringing your own philosphy of sikhi of (Do's and Dont's) to the punjabi sikh youths.

Sikhi is the learner in the path of spirtuality or still looking search for spirtuality.

Lot of jatha and sampardha does use this rehitnama's but does not mean you should put rehitnama's as the first priority. There are way more important things to do before which is reading Siri guroo granth sahib ji and understand the message behind it.

Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar does not belong to amrit-dhari or even sikh. Some of fools from hindu community claim Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar was Hindu, muslim community claims that Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar was Muslim. Now some of the sikhs claiming Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar are only Guru of Sikhs. I m sad to say none of these fools understand the real message behind of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar was a Jagat(world) Guru.. . His jot manifested in Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Jagat Guru.

Anyone from any dharma, race, creed can read it or contemplate with it.

I know people through my relatives in india who are kabir panthis and sufi-panthis (baba farid followers) who did not took amrit. In my opnion, they are sikhs!!!! Because they have murshad( spirtual teacher). They will go to that Ikonkar where our sant/mahapursh to merge. No doubt. Its not like amrit-dharis (khalsa) will receive one higher khand than them. That will defeat the purpose of "Ikonkar".

They are sikhs of their murshad. Lot of hard liner sikhs would claim them they intiate amrit from Guru Maharaj ji even though Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar came after them with his corepeal being in this jagat. They should really learn history better than reading those scholary books.

At end of day, Sikh is a learner in the route of spirtuality with or without aim of being "Amrit-Dhari" thats up to individual as long as they have master or one to follow who have met Nirankar/pratma and merge with him.

Amridhari is also a learner in the route of spirtuality but with a intiation(amrit). Their aim is to be Khalsa that Guru Maharaj expect them to be.

Khalsa mera Roop Hai Khaas

Khalsa mein Karo Nivas

Khalsa is my ideal/special roop

In Khalsa I Reside. (Sarbloh Granth)

I hope this helps :)

Please everyone read my post on this topic on page-1 and let me know what you think?? Any comments? Any faults???

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I think this should clear up the question of who a sikh is without any further doubt....

"The following five K’s are the mark of Sikhi.These five can never be parted from the body. Kara, Kirpan, Kashera, Kangha, recognise these as four of them.The fifth is Kesh, without which the other four are useless. There are also four H’s which must be avoided. Understand this without any doubt, no lies have been told. Hukka, taking tobacco (including any other type of intoxicants). Hajamat, removing of hair. Halalo, eating meat. Haram, adultery (sexual relationships outside of marriage). These are the four H’s. Dyeing of beards (including any other body hair), and the wearing of mehndi (including other types of make up) are strictly forbidden.

(Sri Dasam Granth)" Asfokat swaihye, Sri Dasam Granth Ji

In this Guru Maharah does not mention Khalsa but only says sikh. Therefore this shows the word khalsa and sikh are interchangeable and one and the same. If the punj kakaar are the mark of sikhi, than one who does not have them can not be considered sikh.

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Neo said

Please everyone read my post on this topic on page-1 and let me know what you think?? Any comments? Any faults???

Veerji...Gurbani says to us who a sikh is....

we do not need to use our own matt to define what our Guru has already defined.

You believe in Dasam Granth in its entierity. Therefore your question of who a sikh is is answered.

If Kabir-panthis or Udhasi's want to claim they are sikhs they are fooling themselves as they are not sikhs of Guru Gobind singh ji, as he defined the sikhs

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rehinee rehai soee sikh maeraa ||

ouh t(h)aakur mai ous kaa chaeraa ||

rehith binaa(n) nehi sikh kehaavai ||

rehith binaa(n) dhar chottaa(n) khaavai ||

rehith binaa(n) sukh kabahu(n) n lehae ||

thaa(n) thae rehith s dhrirr kar rehai ||

khhaalasaa khhaas kehaavai soee jaa(n) kae hiradhae bharam n hoee ||

bharam bhaekh thae rehai niaaraa so khhaalas sathiguroo hamaaraa ||

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Jassa ji, that was great. thank you for addressing my questions without making personal attacks on anyone.

now here is another question. what can we call those people who haven't taken amrit yet practice Sikhi in every other way possible (ie sikh_fauge)? and are children who are born into a family that practices Sikhi not considered to be Sikh?

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Jassa ji,

Thanks for quoting from dasam guroo granth. Could you please also direct me to the actual gurbani tuk from dasam granth sahib as well.

If Kabir-panthis or Udhasi's want to claim they are sikhs they are fooling themselves as they are not sikhs of Guru Gobind singh ji, as he defined the sikhs

I think you havent understood the word sikh yet- Guru Maharaj is giving updesh to his sikhs in that tuk you posted from swaiyaie. Guru Maharaj is not giving this updesh to the whole world from different matts (ie-sufi, kabir-panthis, ravi-das followers, bhagat namdev followers, bhagat dharuoo followers) because of fact that they already have their guroo's and they are not nirguraie's.

If guroo maharaj has included bhagat kabir, baba farid, bhagat dharuo, bhagat parlad, bhagat nam dev, bhagat jain, bhagat sadhna, bhagat ravi das etc etc Gurbani in Siri Guroo Granth sahib ji and consider them "Sikhs" then what does that tell you?????????

His followers through their type of intitation are also sikhs of their guroo but not sikh of guroo gobind singh ji maharaj which is not for a even second matters at the end of day because all are one jot of "IkOngkar"

I ll await for your reply Jassa Ji!

You brought a interesting quote from dasam guroo granth which can be also used in keski scholary debate.

Sukhi you said:

now here is another question. what can we call those people who haven't taken amrit yet practice Sikhi in every other way possible (ie sikh_fauge)? and are children who are born into a family that practices Sikhi not considered to be Sikh?

I think sehajdhari/Keshdhari Sikh should be correct interperatation for people who are in the route of spirtuality but havent received amrit yet.

Sehajdhari- Balance/Slowly goin towards to be khalsa.

Sehajdhari can not cut kesh because then he will be patit because he be going away to be khalsa. Thus, they are still sikhs because they have a aim to take amrit one day whenever they feel comfortable.

Please correct me on the interpertation of Sehajdhari.

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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Jassa ji, that was great. thank you for addressing my questions without making personal attacks on anyone.

now here is another question. what can we call those people who haven't taken amrit yet practice Sikhi in every other way possible (ie sikh_fauge)? and are children who are born into a family that practices Sikhi not considered to be Sikh?

Gur Satgur Ka Jo Sikh Akhaawe

So Palke Uthh HarNaam Dhyaawe

~ Guru Ram Das Jee

The one who calls himself/herself a Sikh of the Guru

Let him/her awake before sunrise and meditate on the name

This is the beginning of getting yourself to stand upto the definition of a Sikh.

Also...

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Jap on Pannaa 2 (Guru Nanak Dev Jee in Japji Sahib)

True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love.

People beg and pray, ""Give to us, give to us"", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts.

So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?

What words can we speak to evoke His Love?

In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness.

By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4||

There you go...a Sikh doesn't exist without Amritvela as thats a strong requirement to be a Sikh...someone once said "One who didn't awake at amritvela and is an amritdhari has broken his/her amrit"...now that literally doesn't "break" ur amrit...it just means that amrit needs to be taken daily!!!...and thats at amritvela!!...the above quote from Japji makes it clear as to whats the best gift we can give God...simran @ amritvela!!...so start waking up at Amritvela and doing simran/paath/nitnem or any other way u wanna meditate on God...this is just a start...as Gurujee sees your uddam you will be blessed with more...and as time progresses, u will gradually climb the stairs of Sikhi...remember Sikhi is a process...the one who says "I have achieved...I have become a Sikh"...he/she is fooling himself/herself and also you...a true Sikh never says "I have done it", rather they modestly claim to be just mere travellers travelling towards the destination...even great and uncomparable souls like Baba Nand Singh Jee never ever said "I am a Sikh", even he said "I am trying to be a Sikh" and he was an immensely uplifted spiritual soul, a rare brahmgyani!!

therefore rather than wondering what defines a Sikh, start being one from inside...and the 1st start is Amritvela...start making serious efforts...read Gurbani...meditate on His Name...slowly and steadily u will make it :) ...soon one point will come when u'll die to take Amrit and thats when u give ur head to Guruji and are a Khalsa!!

don't worry...Guruji always loves u no matter what...so have hope :)

these are just my thoughts...forgive me for any errors

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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In this Guru Maharah does not mention Khalsa but only says sikh. Therefore this shows the word khalsa and sikh are interchangeable and one and the same. If the punj kakaar are the mark of sikhi, than one who does not have them can not be considered sikh.

my question was whether sikhi could simply be reduced to something as simple as if you have the five k's and share a bit of ur money, go to the gurudwara regularly and do seva simply because it's required. from the looks of it, Jassa ji, u have said yes.

it's not quite simply a matter of someone who is dilloh sacha. it's a matter of being dilloh sacha and also having implicit faith in Gurbani and SGGSJ. as we've seen, you can find a number of quotes in Gurbani directing us to definitions that revolve only around the panj kakars and some that revolve around the inner qualities of a person.

This may also true. But that doesnt mean that the person who is pure on the inside is a sikh. He may be working towards being a sikh, but until he has enrolled (amrit) at the school of the Guru than how can he be learning? Many sikhs have respect for Jesus, or Muhammad. This doesnt make them Christians or muslims.

is amrit the only way of learning? i don't know why, but it's a bit hard for me to fathom someone as compassionate and humble as our Guru restricting those gifts only to people who have taken amrit implying inequality among people. it's like saying, "i love these people best, therefore they are gonna get the best and these other people are just some idiots. let them run around and kill themselves." that totally doesn't sound like someone who is filled with love and compassion. i'd think that the Guru would extend his blessings and love to the rest of us who haven't taken amrit but are on our way to spiritual understanding.

i'd hate to think that our Gurus could be lowered to such a primitive and inhumane way of thinking...

i hope you can understand what i'm saying and where i'm coming from. i'm not trying to undermine the importance of taking amrit. i too believe that it's very important.

I think sehajdhari/Keshdhari Sikh should be correct interperatation for people who are in the route of spirtuality but havent received amrit yet.

does this typology need to exist in Sikhi?

the above quote from Japji makes it clear as to whats the best gift we can give God...simran @ amritvela!!...

if everything belongs to Him, then who are we to "give" gifts?

and as time progresses, u will gradually climb the stairs of Sikhi...remember Sikhi is a process...the one who says "I have achieved...I have become a Sikh"...he/she is fooling himself/herself and also you...a true Sikh never says "I have done it", rather they modestly claim to be just mere travellers travelling towards the destination...even great and uncomparable souls like Baba Nand Singh Jee never ever said "I am a Sikh", even he said "I am trying to be a Sikh" and he was an immensely uplifted spiritual soul, a rare brahmgyani!!

i think this is the most interesting and possibly the closest thing we can get to defining what Sikhi might be. thanks for the input!

don't worry...Guruji always loves u no matter what...so have hope

thanks for the reminder. now let's see how long i can hold onto this hope for... :D

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i don't know why, but it's a bit hard for me to fathom someone as compassionate and humble as our Guru restricting those gifts only to people who have taken amrit implying inequality among people. it's like saying, "i love these people best, therefore they are gonna get the best and these other people are just some idiots. let them run around and kill themselves." that totally doesn't sound like someone who is filled with love and compassion. i'd think that the Guru would extend his blessings and love to the rest of us who haven't taken amrit but are on our way to spiritual understanding.

i'd hate to think that our Gurus could be lowered to such a primitive and inhumane way of thinking...

Actually Sukhi its not inequality. Gurujee no doubt loves all. But remember the ones who take Amrit have surrendered themselves to Guruji. Their heads/ego, tan/man/dhan all of it. Their entire being then belongs to Guruji, so wouldn't Guruji in all His pristine glory belong to them? Guruji has said Himself Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khaas, and even called the Khalsa His own complete Satguru (Khalsa mero satgur poora). But this doesn't mean He doesn't love others. Guruji blessed many Muslims and some didn't even take Amrit ever. Probably it was some past karams I'd say?

There are many stories of Guruji blessing many different people, but the ones who take Amrit, that special grace is reserved only for them. If this wasn't the case, why would Amrit be important at all?

Don't get me wrong. I by no means mean that Amritdharis are in any way superior (and they shudn't feel so either). Its just that they occupy a special place (I dunno if I should say higher). Gurbani again and again talks about surrendering to the will of Guruji. And the ones who have taken Amrit have essentially done that (unless they are Sikhs only by appearance and have nothing inside). It would only be fair enough if they got the best of the gifts Guruji had, don't you think?

if everything belongs to Him, then who are we to "give" gifts?
Perhaps gift is the wrong word used. It shud have been offerings of love :) .
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my question was whether sikhi could simply be reduced to something as simple as if you have the five k's and share a bit of ur money, go to the gurudwara regularly and do seva simply because it's required. from the looks of it, Jassa ji, u have said yes.

nahi penji/veerji this is not what i said. Seva done as a requirement is not sewa....sewa should be nishkam(selfless).

Its like people think we do simran or sewa or charity becuase God will be happy and we will get mukt...this is the wrong approach....we do these things due to our love for God and our love his sangat and creation. That is what an amridhari should view doing his paath as...or thats how he should view doing seva...but definately not as a ritual or requirement.its not a contract.

also n30 veerji you are correct...i think we were both on 2 different wavelengths. People who believe in other Gurus are their sikhs...that is correct...i thought when you said sikhs you were talking of teh sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh...

To read the actual quote go to this link

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/community/ph...5848&t=5848

Veerji you said

Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar does not belong to amrit-dhari or even sikh. Some of fools from hindu community claim Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar was Hindu, muslim community claims that Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar was Muslim. Now some of the sikhs claiming Guru Nanak Sahib Nirankar are only Guru of Sikhs. I m sad to say none of these fools understand the real message behind of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Guru Nanak Sahib in his tenth roop said khalsa mero roop hai khaas....

he himself bowed down to the khalsa...he belongs to the khalsa. If people do not accept Guru Gobind Singh Ji's teachings than they do not accept Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings as they are one and the same.

it's not quite simply a matter of someone who is dilloh sacha. it's a matter of being dilloh sacha and also having implicit faith in Gurbani and SGGSJ. as we've seen, you can find a number of quotes in Gurbani directing us to definitions that revolve only around the panj kakars and some that revolve around the inner qualities of a person.

I completey agree....

I also believe that what you said there in the first few lines was a description of an amritdhari...

People may have faith in Guru sahib without being amritshuk....but they have not prooved that faith...they have not shown Guru Sahib they have faith by giving him their head.

N30 wrote:

I think sehajdhari/Keshdhari Sikh should be correct interperatation for people who are in the route of spirtuality but havent received amrit yet.

does this typology need to exist in Sikhi?

i believe it does....if it didnt why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji create the Khalsa? All this means is that they are working towards becoming a sikh.there is nothing offensive or discriminating in being called a sehajdhari sikh.

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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Out of interest, the shabad concerning "khalsa mero roop hai khaas" from the Sri Sarabloh Parkash also makes the following commentary with regard to the Khalsa, perhaps those who are more familiar with this text can explain what this means:

"Maat Chadika, Pita Kaal Purakh"

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This is an excellent topic..i agree with veera above..amrit is no doubt a beautiful thing..as i commented earlier, it is for the elite of men..(In my view)..the khalsa are the form of the guru..and the guru is the khalsa.

However, since khalsa are few in number (as saints always say, infact gurbani states that there are few sikhs in this world) doesnt it then void amrit? since most of us will still be ignoring all of gurus message..

I agree we should take amrit..our guru did after all..but guru ji also said many things, as embodied in the guru granth sahib, and the sarbloh/dasam granth, but do we follow all these other things to the "t"? This is where im confused..amrit is no doubt a blessing..and something we should all strive to take..but from historical sources, it seems, the amrit ceremony (khande de pahul) was always reserved to those fit enough to take it..many sikhs were turned away. But at the same time, i feel if someone wants to seek shelter under the guru, and is willing to listen to his hukkam, then its his/her perogative..isnt it? Or does it become a ritual..i.e. dnt worry about 90% of gurbani..or dnt focus on ur virtues..infact dnt worry about naam or meditation..jst take amrit..u'll be fine (which is what some preachers say.)

(im not arguing/debating, this is me just thinking out aloud, in the hope someone can clear my confusion!)

Gurfateh

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i think sikhs as a general really really need to stop comparing ourselves and saying "oh hes an amritdhari and doesnt do this!"

sikh fauge said

But at the same time, i feel if someone wants to seek shelter under the guru, and is willing to listen to his hukkam, then its his/her perogative..isnt it? Or does it become a ritual..i.e. dnt worry about 90% of gurbani..or dnt focus on ur virtues..infact dnt worry about naam or meditation..jst take amrit..u'll be fine (which is what some preachers say.)

Veereh if your hear a kathaakar sayin this then you should challenge him about it. He is misleading people.

I have noticed a trend in peoples opinion (this is not directed at anyone specifically) whereby they give the impression that amritdharis are the badguys. That they reek of arrogance...We should not even notice this.Hum nahee chunga burrah nahi koeh.If one or 2 bad apples are present dont label everyone. 99.9% of amritdharis are gursikhs who are striving to keep as much rehit and be as dilloh sacha as they can...Rest only Guru knows.

and sikh fauge veerji...you said that there is nothing wrong with someone who hasnt taken amrit coming under the Guru's wing....This is true, but it does not make him a sikh...

You mention amrit was harder to come by then...This is also true....but we have to remember that kaljug is increasing. Times will get worse. Everyone today who knows about amrit is able to take it...It is not hard to get receive this gift now...

Guru sahib in Sri Dasam Granth Ji says what a sikh is. He mentions that punj kakaar are necessary. I really dont understand what there is left to debate upon on this topic?

please everyone read this following link.

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/community/ph...5848&t=5848

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Bhai Gurdas Jee's vaars have been blessed by Gurujee Himself as the key to understanding Gurbani. Here is what Bhai Gurdas Jee says :

prathham rehith yehi jaan kha(n)ddae kee paahul shhakae ||asoee si(n)gh pradhhaan avar n paahul jo leae ||

To drink the Ambrosial Nectar of the Khanda (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh.

(for some reason it says Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh on SikhiToTheMax website. I always thought it was Bhai Gurdas Jee who said so)

Here is a personal request. Until a few months back I myself would severely argue against anyone who would say that Amrit was everything. And sincerely I feel thats the reason that my moment of taking Amrit is being delayed. So I would request all to please refrain from belittling the significance of Amrit (I know no one is doing it directly, but please do not even get close to doing it unintentionally). I have terribly regretted doing that and would request you all to please not go there. If you still want to, you are free to do so. Please come back in future and tell me how things went for you.

bhul chuk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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