tSingh Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I shall try to explain what Baba Ishar Singh ji meant by this. Firstly, the outward symbols of a sant are important. Once respect has been lost for them, then cynicism will plague the mind and plague all sants. Secondly, there will always be ninda. There are those who thrive on it. The fact is that this is verbal violence and has the premise that 'I am better'. Thirdly, Guru ji states in sukhmani sahib that the brahmgyani treats friend and foe the same. Because they are one, as all is one. To believe in friends and enemies is dualism. Fourthly it is not hard to realise that such individuals stated are lacking in sadhu virtues. Their company should be avoided. However, slagging them off goes back to point 2, which spirals into haumai. hope this helps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 good points tsingh ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupsingh Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 couldnt have put it better myself. now if only everyone adhered to these points! :yo: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dassan das Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 WAHEGURU 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dassan das Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 WAHEGURU 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dear Dassan das, I don't quite understand why you took that so personally but let me clarify. The key point here is that you are confusing a number of things; the statement of a truth, slander and justice. In response to your above post; 1) Alas, Baba Ishar Singh did not tell me what he meant, and yes this is my interpretation, I apologise for not having made myself clear. 2) Yes the box of apples analogy is perfect. The issue is also of a rotten tomato dressing as an apple (nothing against tomatoes). The appleness is to be shown respect, not the rotten tomato. 3) No, you misunderstood my point here. To my mind ninda and justice are two different things with different aims and outcomes. I feel this is something many people frequently misunderstand. For example, it is just to punish someone for serious wrong doings. It would be unjust for them to get away with it. However ninda is slander. The aim of slander is not to uphold dharm, it is designed to detract from the person, to turn the listener against that person. Sometimes exaggerations, untruths are mixed into these comments to further the slanderer's case. 4) Dassan Das you seem to assume my comments are directed toward you. I realise that internet forums don't always allow apropriate contextualisation, but please read the post. It was a response to your comments about Baba Ishar Singh's statement and trying to contextualise it. 5) The reference to Sri Sukhmani Sahib was to demonstrate that a wise person does not make a point of holding hatred towards others, nor desires to slander them. If an individual has fallen (no matter how badly), see justice is done and move on. Nothing is to be then gained by spending your time hating that person. Hatred and slander are vices not virtues. Furthermore the quote also implies that a wise person will not treat a person any differently regardless of their previous actions. 6) Truth and slander are two seperate things. The truth of a murder or rape is not in question. As said before justice MUST be carried out. Carrying out ninda (in otherwords dwelling on and propogating negativity) will never be a means of giving justice. A statement of fact by itself does not constitute ninda, the motivation of and means by which an individual propogates those facts becomes ninda! I hope this is now clearer and apologise for any misunderstandings! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dassan das Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 WAHEGURU 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh Tsingh, your tact and manner, all immersed in humility has made my day. If everyone had a bit of that in them, everyone's heart would be like butter waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupsingh Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 T Singh youre great! not many people take the time like you have to explain and simplfy things for others! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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