SAadmin Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 waheguru............. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistformalyknownasodhi Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 thats amazing, honestly i am gob smacked. AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 wow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit1972 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 N3O Singh Ji, send this picture to Chowk Mehta's Taksal and tell that even Guru Gobind Singh wrote the 'Mool Mantra' only upto Gurparsaad. The Taksal's Brahmgiyanis and Sants used to say that Mool Mantra is upto 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 lol - controversy why? no reason - just felt like stirring 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I agree with Amrit1972. Very good point. Send it to taksal and other sants and brahmgianis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Send some copies to jails too as many sants and babas go to jails for smuggling, rapes, etc. Yet they don't eat meat. They say meat is wrong but lying, eating free food, and doing harrasment is not a sin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Send some copies to jails too as many sants and babas go to jails for smuggling, rapes, etc. Yet they don't eat meat. They say meat is wrong but lying, eating free food, and doing harrasment is not a sin. can you name us some? why are you brushing the fake sants with the real ones?? can you specify the actual name of the sants who went to jail for smugging, rapes etc and after naming them can you use- the term "fake sants" to describe them...sant is a sacred word only reserved for enlighten souls who deserve it.. let's not de-value term sant to describe fake ones...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 same old jhagare - i prescribe acapella simran 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 N3O Singh Ji, send this picture to Chowk Mehta's Taksal and tell that even Guru Gobind Singh wrote the 'Mool Mantra' only upto Gurparsaad. The Taksal's Brahmgiyanis and Sants used to say that Mool Mantra is upto 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. supetrfluous details what harm does it do to say it till Nanak hosi bhi sach. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit1972 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 what harm does it do to say it till Nanak hosi bhi sach. Will it harm if you say it up to "Naanak Likheya Naal"? Gurbani does not harm even if you say only "Ik Onkaar". Matter is how long the Mool Mantra actually is. If the picture given above shows the 'Mool Mantra', as said in thread's title, then all will have to accept that 'Mool Mantra' is upto 'Gur Parsaad'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 recalling karamjit post on this topic: Dhan Baba (A)Nand Singh Ji maharaj kaleran wale used to say that doing the path of mool mantar upto gurprasad is like a sword hanging upon your neck that can fall any time . its not advisable . This mantar upto gurprasad was given to Guru Nanak Dev ji by Nirankar ( although He were himself nirankar ) If sikhs want to benefit from mool mantar they should do upto nanak hosi bhi sach beacuse if you don't include the name of your guru u can't meet Nirankar . u need a guru to meet GOD . guru bina gat nahi te shah bina pat nahi . that's y all the saints and mahapurakh advise people to do upto hosi bhi sach . waheguru ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 there you go another example of doing as we were told to do, rather doing as the Gurus did, as it isnt in our capacity to emulate them without 'drowning in the world ocean' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit1972 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 So, you are not going to follow Guru Gobind Singh's writing, which you have posted by yourself. Please post the picture of Mool Mantra, written by Nand Singh Ji. Let us see which 'Mool Mantra' he used to recite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I have heard Baba Ishar Singh Jee saying in his Katha that Mul Mantar is up to Gurparsaad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 he did, but he also said to say it up to Nanak hosi bhi sach a few seconds later. I havent heard it for ages, maybe they also said why. i have the tape somewhere, i can try to record the segment if you like. Amrit - I never meant that sayin Gurbani will hurt you, all I meant was that there must be a reason, and that you cant really attack someone as being a false Sant for recommending that you say a lil more Gurbani. Given that Puran Sants are here in Maharaji's service they must have their reasons, if I meet one I'll ask. But I do know that reciting powerful manters can spark retaliation from dark shaktia, many Mahapursh are almost routinely attacked by these shaktia. Maybe extending it to 'Nanak hosi bhi sach' gives an extra element of protection not to mention that it dispells the common argument that 'we gotta change with the times, thats why i cut my hair' etc. anyway lets get back on topic - great picture aint it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 So, you are not going to follow Guru Gobind Singh's writing, which you have posted by yourself. Please post the picture of Mool Mantra, written by Nand Singh Ji. Let us see which 'Mool Mantra' he used to recite. For your kind information , how do you know that it is mool mantar ? how do you know that its not a manglacharan ? actually it is a manglacharan . In Guru Granth Sahib Ji , the mool mantar upto hosi bhi sach comes only once and that too in the beginning . MOOL menas ROOT . As various branches spread from a single trunk of tree similarly mool mantar is the root of all mantars . no mantar is powerful than mool mantar . The manglacharan written by the Guru ji above comes 33 times . Ik onkar satgur prasad comes about 500 times . so the more counting doesn't make it mool mantar .( our thinking has been affected by voting in elections). Mool mantar is only upto hosi bhi sach . Sants , mahapurash , samardas who believe mool mantar is upto bhi sach are the following : 1) Bhai Gurdas ji mentions that in his 39 vaar 2) Udasi samparda from son of guru nanak dev ji , baba sri chand still recite mool mantar upto hosi bhi sach . 3) family lineage from 2nd son of guru ji , sri lakhmidas ji , still recite mool mantar upto hosi nhi sach . 4) sevapnthi samparda from srted from bhai ghaniya ji 5) family lineage from baba budha ji 6) damdami taksal 7) rara sahib 8) nanaksar Sants: baba nand singh ji baba ishar singh ji ( both kaleran and rare sahib wale ) sant attar singh ji ( reru , atle , mastuane sahib wale ) baba mahaharnam singhji bhucho kalan wale baba khem singh ji baba kundan singh ji nanaksar wale baba harbhajan singh ji nanaksar wale baba harnam singh ji sant karam singh ji hoti mardan wale giani sundar singh ji khalsa sant gurbachan singhji sant kartar singh ji sant jarnail singhji sant ranjit singh dhadrian kalan wale and there are so many more ........there is no end and who r the ones against it ? those who know only to talk not to work , those who didn't get the ras of naam waheguru............... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Aade Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhee Sach. Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach. is a saloak. It also comes in Sukhmani Sahib. Your Babas read Sukhmani Sahib but didn't know what they were reading. The one at end of Bhee Sach in Japuji Sahib denotes saloak one. The word Jap(u) after Gurparsaade is the start if Japuji Sahib Bani. It is up to Gurparsaade. It is not an issue. Akaal Takht maryada clearly says up to Gurparsaade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 baba isher singh ji rara sahib would give either up to gurparsad or nanak hosi bhi sach to people by looking at one's avastha upon taking amrit. This is discussed in atamik bachan tape - you can download that tape in website- gursikhijeevan.com From a jaguaso state- he would give the mool mantar until nanak hosi bhi sach But if the person is not jaguaso state and it's at the elevated state- then he would give it up to Gurparsad. He off course did this not by own but this was followed by seena-basina tradition by his previous teachers coming from bhai dya singh sampardha. So as far as bhai dya singh sampardha- mool mantar whether nanak hosi bhi sach or up to gurparsad is given by looking at one's avastha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I used to do up to Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach. I believed it was up to there too. I believed sant mahapursh. But now with research I understand it is up to Gurparsaade. Khojat Khojat Nij Ghar Paaya. Amoal Rattan Saach Dikhlaaya. Khojat Khojat Khoaj Beechaareo Tatu Naanak Ehu Jaana Ray. Simrat Naamu Nidhaanu Nirmolaku Manu Maanuku Pateeaana Ray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 are you implying you are on the avastha of nij ghar? or am i just reading too much into things! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhraj Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Aade Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhee Sach. Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach. is a saloak. It also comes in Sukhmani Sahib. Your Babas read Sukhmani Sahib but didn't know ...... In Sukhmani Sahib, the "Bheee" is spelled differently, so the end bit of the Mool Mantr does not 'also come in Sukhmani Sahib.' I trust that everyone arguing that it is till Gurparsad has done hardcore Jaaps, Bhagti and reached the same level as Brahmgyanis who have reached somewhere and hence know 'the way'. The true meaning of Gurbani can only be known through "Anbhav", not reading loads of books. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 very true sukhraj ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit1972 Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Dear karmjeet Ji, Welcome to the debate. This debate will be moderated by the Admin himself, as per the rules of 'Niyaaye Shaashtra', I hope. For your kind information , how do you know that it is mool mantar ? The thread is started by our beloved N3O Singh Ji. He himself mentioned in its title, that it is 'Mool Mantar'. I made comments on N3O Singh's words. He himself called it the 'Mool Mantar'. Please read every word in this thread, before having debate on such a serious issue. Regards. how do you know that its not a manglacharan ? actually it is a manglacharan . Where has it been said by the original poster that it is 'Manglacharan'? You can prove your view quoting Sri Dasam Granth, if Guru Gobind Singh Ji used this as 'Manglacharan', and not any other 'Manglacharan'. In Guru Granth Sahib Ji , the mool mantar upto hosi bhi sach comes only once and that too in the beginning . MOOL menas ROOT . As various branches spread from a single trunk of tree similarly mool mantar is the root of all mantars . no mantar is powerful than mool mantar . Your point is absolute invalid. If you quote to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then you will have to accept the exaplanation given by the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The word 'Mool Mantar' is NEVER used in your meanings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji clearly says: - mUl mMqRü hir nwmu rswiexu khu nwnk pUrw pwieAw ]5] mool ma(n)thra har naam rasaaein kahu naanak pooraa paaeiaa ||5|| Chanting the Mool Mantra, the Name of the Lord, the source of nectar, says Nanak, I have found the Perfect Lord. ||5|| Guru Nanak Dev Ji Raag Maaroo, 1040 Now, see what Bhai Sahib Gurdas Ji says: - siqnwmu krqw purK mUl mMqR ismrx prvwxY] sathinaam karathaa purakh mool ma(n)thr simaran paravaanai|| Satnam, Karta Purakh is accepted as the basic formula, the muli mantr, by gurmukh. Bhai Gurdaas Ji, Vaars Bhai Sahib Gurdaas Ji, 6 Please quote to the Gurbani or Bhai Sahib Gurdas Ji, where it is said that Mool Mantra is from Ik Onkar to Hosi Bhi Sach. The manglacharan written by the Guru ji above comes 33 times . Ik onkar satgur prasad comes about 500 times . so the more counting doesn't make it mool mantar .( our thinking has been affected by voting in elections). Mool mantar is only upto hosi bhi sach . See my reply above. Quote to the Gurbani or Bhai Gurdas Ji. No where it is said that 'Mool Mantar' is from Ik Onkar to Hosi Bhi Sach. Just quote to the Gurbani or Bhai Gurdas Ji. Sants , mahapurash , samardas who believe mool mantar is upto bhi sach are the following : 1) Bhai Gurdas ji mentions that in his 39 vaar Just quote him, where he says that this is the 'Mool Mantar'. 2) Udasi samparda from son of guru nanak dev ji , baba sri chand still recite mool mantar upto hosi bhi sach . You have mentioned the name of Bhai Gurdas Ji. Just have a look on his 'Vaaraan' and try to find where he expressed his views about Sri Chand. Also, quote to the Gurbani, Guru-hukamnamas, Bhai Gurdas Ji, where they accepted Sri Chand's views. 3) family lineage from 2nd son of guru ji , sri lakhmidas ji , still recite mool mantar upto hosi nhi sach . Which son? One who hit Guru Amardas Ji by foot, or one who tried to learn 'Tantra' and became the fake Guru? Also, quote to the Gurbani or Bhai Gurdas Ji, where the names of sons of Guru Angad Dev Ji have been mentioned. 4) sevapnthi samparda from srted from bhai ghaniya ji Sevapanthi sect was started by Bhai Seva Ram Ji. Visit my site and find his name. You may get some information. 5) family lineage from baba budha ji If Gurus' family lineage's views are not accepted in the light of the facts, what does it make difference what his family lineage thinks. 6) damdami taksal Never read this term in (Puratan) older books of Guru/Sikh history. 7) rara sahib nanaksar Please quote to any Puratan source, where these terms are used. Sants: baba nand singh ji baba ishar singh ji ( both kaleran and rare sahib wale ) sant attar singh ji ( reru , atle , mastuane sahib wale ) baba mahaharnam singhji bhucho kalan wale baba khem singh ji baba kundan singh ji nanaksar wale baba harbhajan singh ji nanaksar wale baba harnam singh ji sant karam singh ji hoti mardan wale giani sundar singh ji khalsa sant gurbachan singhji sant kartar singh ji sant jarnail singhji sant ranjit singh dhadrian kalan wale and there are so many more ........there is no end Please quote to any Puratan source, where these names are mentioned. Where did any of our ten Gurus have used the term 'Sant' for any Sikh? Who has the authourity to declare any person a 'Sant'? and who r the ones against it ? A Gursikh is never against the Gurbani. those who know only to talk not to work , those who didn't get the ras of naam waheguru............... Thank you very much for the comments. I will not ask you what you have done till date. I will not ask you if you have got the 'Ras' of 'Naam'. It is not a 'Bachan' of any self-styled 'Sant': - 'Hon Nazeek Khudaaye De, Bhed Kisai Na Den'. A Gursikh never claims that he has done something, because the Gurbani says, "Jab Lag Jaanai Main Kichh Karta, Tab Lag Garabh Jon Maih Phirta". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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