What is the value of fasting ?

[Harbhajan]

Q50. What is the value of fasting?

source: "Introduction to Sikhism" Author: Gobind Singh Mansukhani

Fasting is good for health but has no religious merit. Some sects of the Hindus hold very strong views on fasting. For them, fasting has some real value and has to be strictly followed.

Sikhism does not regard fasting as meritorious. God has given us the human body - the temple of the soul - which has to be nourished and cared for. Fasting as an austerity, as a ritual, as a mortification of the body by means of wilful hunger is forbidden in Sikhism. Guru Nanak says: "Penance, fasting, austerity and alms-giving are inferior to 'The Truth'; right action is superior to all."

There are sects which do not eat this or that. Some peole will not eat cereals, but will take other types of food. Such people may be treated as hypocrites. They give up the use of certain type of food, not because they want to, but because they wish to impress others. It feeds their Ego and does not earn merit. According to Guru Nanak, true fasting is the renunciation of the fruit of one's actions.

Fasting for reasons of health is understandable when done on medical advice. Some people fast regularly on a particular day in the week, so resting their digestive organs. It may also serve as a means to save food, or a method of balancing the domestic budget.

Sikhism encourages temperance and moderation in matters of food. Neither starve nor over-eat: this is the golden mean. Men who want to engage in meditation should only eat simple and nourishing food. Healthy food but in small quantities(Alap Ahar), just to keep body and soul together and to prevent sleep and sloth, this is recommended for the devotee. On the other hand, gluttony is not only socially bad, but also morally reprehnsible.

The golden rule about fasting is: Fast only when you must, in the interest of your health.

[BAZ]

Now have a look at it from the other side and see the value of fasting by those who fast:

http://www.islamfortoday.com/syed02.htm

I for one am very VERY greatful for this month of fasting as it helps me as a muslim to get my mind and heart on track. If it is looked at as an intense spiritual workout then it is beneficial. The good habits that are strengthened through the month of fasting can be implimented throughout the year. Fasting doesnt feed my ego at all and I dont see how the author can say such a thing when he has not fasted himself. Infact I would say that fasting done with the right intention works at killing ones ego because you become more aware of your spiritual and mental weaknesses during the fast.

Guru Nanak says: "Penance, fasting, austerity and alms-giving are inferior to 'The Truth'; right action is superior to all.".. and he is absolutely right but I dont think this statement nullifies fasting. Even Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that right action is better than prayer and as you know the 5 times daily prayer is a pillar of Islam.

[Amrikingh]

"I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us." (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon pg. 1136)

[drawrof]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!

I saw this post and felt there was something I could contribute to here.

Firstly, the article by gobind singh mansukhani must first be looked at from the angle he has written it. He has discussed something from an intellectual point of view. His first point appeared absolutist, and can easily be seen in that light because a whole practice is being "shunned". Yet it is the context that has to be noted here.

He said "Fasting is good for health but has no religious merit"

in light of "Some sects of the Hindus hold very strong views on fasting. For them, fasting has some real value and has to be strictly followed"

In that context sikhism does not giving the act of fasting any merit, for if it did...we would have fasts within sikhism. Instead we are advised to eat little, talk little, and sleep little so that our lifestyle is reflective of the poverty which is to be felt within. YET, this doesn't make the next comments made by gobind singh mansukhani "absolutely" correct either.

Fasting as an austerity, as a ritual, as a mortification of the body by means of wilful hunger is forbidden in Sikhism. Guru Nanak says: "Penance, fasting, austerity and alms-giving are inferior to 'The Truth'; right action is superior to all."

Firstly, I would replace forbidden with "discouraged" or "not encouraged".

Secondly, a line of guru nanak sahib was quoted...and I don't see a reference to that line. Being sikh, I am thankful that there is an absolute minimal chance of there being error in guru granth sahib as we have copies which bear our guru's signatures. That being the case, I find it a bit disturbing why we don't quote so that people can actually go and find the shabad and understand it theirself (For that I thank amrik singh, although I'll be shedding light on that shabad in a bit).

Thirdly, I am a firm believer, that raag and poetry have been used as a means to convey the message so that our soul/spirit becomes enraptured. The devotion of the kirtanee, the mood of the raag, the truth in the message, and the metaphors/similes within gurbani leave an impression on the mind and the heart....scientifically both sides of the brain are being endured and the message is efficiently conveyed. In this situation, we only have the intellectual/ideological element which is being conveyed..so there are FURTHER elements to the equation such as that "uthanka, raag...(to get an idea of the emotion, the grammar, the rahao, the whole shabad in general" which should be understood before someone decides on what those words really mean, and further, and more importantly, what the guru is actually trying to say.

a side note: we as sikhs have rituals (a set of actions we do, regardless of whether they are empty or not). I believe the guru's were against empty rituals, and had both the experience of the divine and understanding of religion/culture/society to be able to give the wisdom required to strengthen and reinforce devotion through each person's respective path.

To sit there and stick all "hindus" and all "muslims" under 2 banners is quite comical because so many different people with different ideologies and practices would be standing beside each other thinking "What the...you're not even X" (where x= muslim or hindu); Us sikhs would do the same based on our religious affiliations and ideological differences.

so to sum up the last point, words are contextualized with intent, and since that one line from gobind singh mansukhani is so brief; I choose to disregard it for now and say "it proved a point he was trying to make, but I can not be 100% sure that it was used in the right context".......

Now, I thank amrik singh for the shabad he posted. The shabad had a reference. On a personal level (if I look at life as hindu, muslim, sikh)...I would not be affected as 2 other groups are being criticized and I am sitting here scott free. But, since I am a human and gurbani has been there for all of humanity, I have to take it one step deeper. Further, as a khalsa-sikh, a distinguished member of society, I MUST understand the shabad to its entirity so that I can understand the gist to humanity at large so I Can personally test my daily rituals and lifestyle to see if it is on par with the truth.

Firstly, this shabad is bhairon- raag (morning time, from the 4th quarter of the night to sunrise, it is derived from ramkali todi+gauree, it creates a solemn and delightful mood <like a child yawning…spiritually it is like us being awakened), 24th raag in Sri Guru granth sahib ji)…..I can go on and on, and get down to the nitty gritty about what it is meant to evoke but this post will become more boring than it actually is.

Uthanka(background): Guru Arjun sahib, 5th guru, honored this baani of kabir for being in line with gurmat. This shabad was an answer to pundits & mullahs who were saying “if you’re a hindu, then why aren’t you doing hindu actsâ€; “if you’re a muslim actsâ€â€¦..this bani is an explanation of what kabir is, and if you look at it from the perspective I mentioned earlier, guru arjun sahib, the 5th nanak, is reiterating where people are getting caught in their practices and losing sight of what they are really committed to if that.

If you anyone would like, I can translate the shabad, as to my understanding but from a baseline point of view

If a person is arguing over whether act A should be done over act B, how is it that they can even assume that they have understood the “one†they are acting for?????.....if the intention isn’t there, whats the use of the action?

[tSingh]

A quick note as I'm passing, but I have SERIOUS issues with Mansukhani's distorted translations of Bhai Gurdas' varan. He tends to add in english words that fit his angle, less the literal meaning. I would advice people to avoid 'Hymns of Bhai Gurdas' by the same author.

[DHANBABANANAK]

fasting dont get rid of the 5 evils... and allow u to conquer ur mind against evil thoughts. I was at work: this muslim guy in my department was talking filth, then he suddenly stopped and relised it was not meant to happen today as they fasting. Then when the fasting stops some of thing go back to how they were b4.

[BAZ]

Then obviously his fasting is not helping because it is not being done with the right intention. Fasting is a tool that is there to use for self improvement. It is up to the individual how they choose to use that tool or even if they choose to use it at all. One month of fasting wont get rid of the 5 evils but that month of fasting is there to HELP get rid of those 5 evils by self dicipline and devotion to God.

I have met plenty of Singhs with full beards who talk filth and act shamefully. Their 5 Ks are having about as much effect on their character as fasting might be having on that muslim guy who was talking flith at your work. First of all man is weak and makes mistakes and if fasting or an outward reminder (such as a kara, kesh, rosary etc) remind an individual where their thoughts, words and actions should be then these tools are working. The person has corrected their mistake and hopefully will become more aware of what they think, say or do in the future. If an individual is doing an religious act without the right intention then it becomes an empty ritual and useless no matter what the ritual is and which religion it is from.

Fasting isnt just not eating or drinking during the day. Read through that link I posted and it will outline fasting for what it really is.

Fasting and prayers are tools to train the heart and mind to keep their attention on God. They are their to help build that relationship with God. There are no worldly benefits to fasting at all... you give and give and give of yourself. You practice self control and restraint and remembrance of God.

Think of it as going to the gym and having a very intense workout. That workout is pointless if you eat the wrong thigs and get into bad habits after it. It is there to strengthen the heart and mind. After this spritual "workout" one should try harder to live a better life and take the lessons learnt in fasting with them through the rest of the year. Fasting for me is a gift in self improvement and I look forward to it every year.

[drawrof]

Spot on BAZ!

This is what I was getting at with my comments above. Gobind singh mansukhani attacked a ritual. We as sikhs are not prescribed those rituals but have rituales we do, nonetheless. Regardless, the message of the guru was beyond that, and, in all honesty, if something isn't done with the right intention...the outcome will always be negative.

I don't see why this should be complicated. We as sikhs will see gurmukhs and manmukhs (if we want to differentiate), and the manifestation of a gurmukh and a manmukh will be the same across the board.

Also, I don't feel that it is my place as a sikh, or anyone else's to criticise other faith's beliefs. We can disagree with principles, but lets be 100% realistic here, there is nothing really debatable about 'fasting'.

as a sikh, I see baz, getting closer to allah and the path to truth through fasting, it makes me go "Waheguru" (As god has a million ways to bring disciples close). For the sake of this argument, even as sikhs....look at all the acts we applaud

1) charity

2) reading of X number of paats

3) Y form of meditation

(each of the above can be useless if we don't have the deeper/more profound intention in place...which in itself is a blessing from god).

let me be 100% frank with you, at work I noticed 2 muslims co-workers working and one admitted he broke his fast 9 times last year...and watching him work, while being weak and tired, made me think...waheguru, even this commitment on their behalf, which is an inconvenience, is being done for your sake...waheguru!

let us remember that waking up in the morning, and going to work is a ritual as well .

[drawrof]

On further note,

I suggest we start at looking at our own flaws, strengthen ourself, lose ourself in our love for akaal and let our existence be an exemplifying vehicle.

the shabad quoted by amrik singh can be applied to a sikh and a jain, a christian and a jew, etc. are we at that stage where our every breath and action is echoing god?...chances are we are likely not.

One thing I like to come to this forum for is that I get to share in the positive experiences of others who are trying to tread "the path". Another reason is learning more about history/heritage, in that it strengthens my sense of belonging.

ie. sikhs were the first troops to land on flanders field

500 sikhs kept 10,000+ germans at bay for 2 hours, whereas the british reinforcements lost 10,000+ men in 2 hours battle.....there is a higher conviction and blessing at play here.

further, when I see religions get bashed, I don't like it. The experience of our beloved guru's and proper gursikhs was so optimum that they didn't need to prove themselves by belittling others or making comments which put them a cut above the rest. Our guru's built mosques for muslims to be able to pray in and we are here criticising muslims?? I feel exactly the same when I hear about sindhi's getting criticised.

Sure these religions are different in their mode, methods and practices...but the people who adopt and practice still have the same heart, intentions, flaws, hopes, etc......

eku pita, ekas ke hum baarik

[Pheena]

those were deep thoughts forward.. 8)